Sex Abuse Scandal in the Catholic Church

[timber]

a lot of animals dont survive like that. even if a wolf survives onstracized on his own he doesnt reproduce. bears are more solitary, but they can lose to wolves, and humans win wars and drive animals extinct because they mass reproduce and work their miserable lives to suffer so they can make more children they want to make miserable and more weapons. im sick of ppl trying to make themselves out ot be somehow special and better than others because they are assholes.

Not about the point I was making. You are saying that humans survive in a collective of some sort, instead of individually, much like animals, but I was speaking in terms of survival with Civilization around. Let's say ten people are living in a wilderness, living off what the land currently provides in that season, without trade (and therefore a move towards civilization) with other tribes . I'm talking about removing everything humanity has built over the past 10,000 years. This was the point I was making. Many people have no idea what is a natural act in this context, because they have never actually had to expend any effort in that direction. Have you hunted or gathered for you calories, across many years and seasons? No. Therefore, you are a Civilization centrist, buffered by the efforts and ingenuity of all the other people around you. This pseudo-nature, running in parallel with the natural world, looks analogous with nature, but its not.

there are more females born when there is scarcity. there are more gay people in societies with larger population. i dont know the mechanism of this, but i hate those kind of assumptions that its somehow unnatural. u dont know how this happens. implicitly nothing is unnatural anyway, but people use that term as if to mean "good" or "necessary" and create self contradictory theories that dont factor in everything just to fir their bias and act like thats definietly truth, the only truth and the whole truth.

I can't really argue with this.

so does human intellect, and so is necessary for the development of a higher intellect. lets turn everything good into garbage so only cockroaches and parasites survive.
agroculture and civilization came after hunter-gathering, maybe due to scarcity. farmers in nature have less animal products and their bodies pay a price. often they are known for cannibalism. there have been some studies done on hunter-gatherer groups and they are what u would call lazy. agroculture has come with multitude modern diseases, contamination due to sedentary lifestyle and dense populations

Yes. Lots can be improved. But to say the future is only for cockroaches is a paradigm that exists because of the nuclear option, not anything else. Even with all our disgusting pollution, we will not collapse the entire planetary system and leave Earth on a runaway train towards the same atmosphere as venus. These are memetic devices meant to shape and socially engineer human behaviour. Earth and life will go on, no matter what occurs. Its done it several times before. By the time the next Ice Age hits, (if there is one, maybe we put forth a unconscious, purposeful effort to avoid another one, having lived, as a species, through several others), all of the life we screwed up will have adapted.

there are less suicides if at all in hunter gatherer societies, and there have been suicides due to being forced into a civilized lifestyle.
u could argue those are different kinds of civilizations

Yes. Stands to reason. A bored human being, or a human being inheriting problems from ancestors, can become neurotic, wishing for a end to the problems, and the ego complex feeling so trapped, it ends the life of the organism. Terrible and tragic. I dont suggest eating magic mushrooms if your mind is inclined to this sort of pondering. The weight of it all might be to much to bare.

if u want to return to the jungle completely on ur own, which is different than hunter gatherer societies, u will return to monke and say goodbye to ur neo cortex because that life style cant support ur body and mind. there is nothing glorious or superior about that. this is regression and degradation.

I think the hippies tried this. However, you do realize who you are talking to, right? I lived off grid for a large portion of my 20s. I don't need to be lectured on the virtues of returning to the land. I did it already and its hard and it kind of sucks. But news flash, our brains evolved PRIOR civilization. What do you make of that?

Again, you have a habit of blowing past my point. I'm not arguing for a return to nature lifestyle. I'm simply saying having an opinion about social constructs vs natural instinct- imperatives, is lopsided and incomplete, given the extent of the personal lack of experience of the one's holding the opinion. I extend this critique to University types, or whoever lacks the ability to remain objective given their comfort within the Matrix itself.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

I think the hippies tried this. However, you do realize who you are talking to, right? I lived off grid for a large portion of my 20s. I don't need to be lectured on the virtues of returning to the land. I did it already and its hard and it kind of sucks. But news flash, our brains evolved PRIOR civilization. What do you make of that?

not sure what do u mean that i need to make of it. a human in a hunter gatherer society is a sort of civilization. a human in that kind of society is not the same as a chimp in a chimp society. a huma nraised in a chimp society from the start even if it possibly survived wouldnt be as intelligent as he would be raised in a human society. language is a sort of civilization. why did human brains evolve? my theory is tool use, hunting and walking up right. other animals use their teeth to kill and eat which causes pressure on their skull and shrinks it. monkeys are a bit different because they use their hands more. but humans learned to use fire sharp stones and other ways to process meat. walking upright will have also removed tension from the head and jaws thats associated with the head now being supported by the body vertically against gravity instead of hovering. elephants use their nose for exerting force, not their jaws.

Therefore, you are a Civilization centrist, buffered by the efforts and ingenuity of all the other people around you.

this is what language is and what a large portion of ur brain was created by. ingenuity of the people around us, and taking care of each other. someone decided to hunt animals unlike other monkeys, to walk upright, to use fire and tools, and this is why we are here. it is a sort of civilization.

Have you hunted or gathered for you calories, across many years and seasons?

and perhaps people learned this slowly, knowledge of whats what and people dying trying the wrong shrooms perhaps. they didnt get thrown into chaos out of nothing without any kind of support. humans have a much longer developmental period than most animals, autistic people even more and they have larger brains on average and thats genetically associated with intelligence. that said the environment those ppl also lived in was not the same as now. i dont know if ur personal experience with hunting and gathering would reflect what people before the scarcity experienced. i can have theories but not certain conclusions

[timber]

not sure what do u mean that i need to make of it. a human in a hunter gatherer society is a sort of civilization. a human in that kind of society is not the same as a chimp in a chimp society. a huma nraised in a chimp society from the start even if it possibly survived wouldnt be as intelligent as he would be raised in a human society. language is a sort of civilization. why did human brains evolve? my theory is tool use, hunting and walking up right. other animals use their teeth to kill and eat which causes pressure on their skull and shrinks it. monkeys are a bit different because they use their hands more. but humans learned to use fire sharp stones and other ways to process meat. walking upright will have also removed tension from the head and jaws thats associated with the head now being supported by the body vertically against gravity instead of hovering. elephants use their nose for exerting force, not their jaws.

Our brains evolved this size before hunter gathering societies, that we know of. Crazy. If the size of our brians was what allowed us to use tools, or was it tools that made our brains big? It was the size that came first, before the tools. If brain size was what matter, why are not blue whales the most intelligent creatures on Earth? If eating meat and fat was what made us intelligent, why are Earth's predators not the most intelligent?

this is what language is and what a large portion of ur brain was created by. ingenuity of the people around us, and taking care of each other. someone decided to hunt animals unlike other monkeys, to walk upright, to use fire and tools, and this is why we are here. it is a sort of civilization.

I think a definition of Civilization is needed before its used to loosely.

and perhaps people learned this slowly, knowledge of whats what and people dying trying the wrong shrooms perhaps. they didnt get thrown into chaos out of nothing without any kind of support. humans have a much longer developmental period than most animals, autistic people even more and they have larger brains on average and thats genetically associated with intelligence. that said the environment those ppl also lived in was not the same as now. i dont know if ur personal experience with hunting and gathering would reflect what people before the scarcity experienced. i can have theories but not certain conclusions

I'm only speaking in context of this thread. Lots of nature vs nurture arguments. Which is what I was addressing. I'm just sick of so many opinions that lack that real world application. I'm a hard natural imperative type, btw. I think a lot of everything we do daily is because of our natural inclinations from our animal selves. Even if those expressions look warped, due to Civilization. For example, I think that harming children is the warped instinct to have sex. Their authority allows it to happen. In another time and setting, these people would be killed, or chased out, by the family unit. Some of them are killed when they are finally convicted to prison.

Finally, we did not evolve from apes, we ARE apes, still, today. All of dualism is false. But I prefer Mckenna's poetical thoughts on the matter "we are angels [or devils], trapped inside the monkey."

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Our brains evolved this size before hunter gathering societies, that we know of. Crazy. If the size of our brians was what allowed us to use tools, or was it tools that made our brains big? It was the size that came first, before the tools. If brain size was what matter, why are not blue whales the most intelligent creatures on Earth? If eating meat and fat was what made us intelligent, why are Earth's predators not the most intelligent?

i told u predators use their jaws which collapses their skull on their brain. its a mechanical issue. most animals walk horizontally which also causes pressure on the head to collapse. monkeys and humans are more vertical and smarter. elephants monkeys and humans use their limbs to kill and process food unlike other animals who mostly use their jaws whcih collapses their brains. elephants have larger brains than the most intellinget monkeys but are not much more intelligent, why is that, its because they are vertical. both humans monkeys elephants and blue whales have much larger brains compared to other animals. u are trying to make me create a theory that explains everything for u but just because i dont have all the answers to all the specifics personally it doesnt mean they dont exist. i suspect sea animals have to deal with the pressure of always having to swim maybe inhibits some of the cognitive processing. meditaiton is one way to improve cognitive functioning although i will add clauses to that as well since there are ways it can be counter productive if u dont address them. blue whales also dont use tools or have complex limbs for their minds to interact with. they have brain parts responsible for sound processing and that may be a kind of way they are more intellingent than all of us but this alone does not translate into everything.

and predators are on average more intelligent than their preys. as i said there are factors, and humans have a lot of factors coming together to make us who we are, that other animals dont.

Finally, we did not evolve from apes, we ARE apes, still, today. All of dualism is false. But I prefer Mckenna's poetical thoughts on the matter "we are angels [or devils], trapped inside the monkey."

depends on what u mean ur thinking is too rigid. we are apes in one sense but we are not the same as them, they dont live the same as us, they cant do what we can, and we cant reproduce with them the same we can with other humans.

For example, I think that harming children is the warped instinct to have sex.

this may be a lone truth in some sense but not in all the sense. i suspect a lot of that has to do with cognitive deficits in areas of empathy that can make those ppl shunned by others regardless. ppl with ASPD can overreact to criticism or threats hence their inclination to aggression which is related to depression and shrinkage of those brain parts. i suspect some of those pedos may have been criticized and rejected by women, in potentially cruel ways, after having been repeatedly rejected by others, kids treat them well and cant defend themselves (harm them). there is an inclination to innocence and safety, and in general, whatever u repress, u tend to externalize on others. a pedo has to repress his own innocence, because when he expresses it he gets harmed, now he seeks someone innocent who wont harm him who matches him, and a sexual connection is about matching someone. he is also socially inept and just like a kid who sticks its arms in places in places they dont belong, touches everything and plays with his own body and objects, who struggles to differentiate right from wrong and learns by direct experience.
i dont see how civilization specifically would be the cause of that tho. perhaps the scarcity that led to forcing civlization would be a "cause". being a hard natural imperative doesnt mean anything on its own. it could be taken to mean that pedophilia is natural or that u mean its caused unnaturally. there is no nature vs nurture its just both and ppl take them out of context because something's wrong with their perception

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Our brains evolved this size before hunter gathering societies, that we know of. Crazy. If the size of our brians was what allowed us to use tools, or was it tools that made our brains big? It was the size that came first, before the tools.

and no they literally did not.
they also came to a certain size, then tools came, then more size came and other things came etc
literal wolves are hunter gatherers so are and were humans

[timber]

and no they literally did not.
they also came to a certain size, then tools came, then more size came and other things came etc
literal wolves are hunter gatherers so are and were humans

Yeah try again narc. Bit more study into anthropology.

In a related note, neanderthal had larger brains and less tool use and art.

Humans arrived about 300,000 years ago. Mostly anatomically identical to us today. Tool use followed.

Wolves do not gather plant food, hence they are not hunter gatherers. Omnivores hunters, maybe.

Concepts matter. Details are important.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

Yeah try again narc. Bit more study into anthropology.

In a related note, neanderthal had larger brains and less tool use and art.

Humans arrived about 300,000 years ago. Mostly anatomically identical to us today. Tool use followed.

Wolves do not gather plant food, hence they are not hunter gatherers. Omnivores hunters, maybe.

Concepts matter. Details are important.

monkeys use tools and used them since before that. octopusses use tools. and wolves do eat some plants little as it is, even if they dont gather them. dont see how it makes a difference to my argument.