USA politics following Trump's election

[End]

I speak to the churches I encountered. I speak to their lies. They can burn in their own conceptions of hell. I will NEVER believe them. They tried to screw me over as a child, and so far I cannot forgive them.

Every mind virus in my head, I'll consider it, but when I ultimately find it lacking, I am DONE with it. There is another mind virus in my head now. I am considering it, I am taking it unto myself, but know, if it fails my tests, it is over and done with.

It sounds like you were abused by the "clergy" of a Christian faith of some sort. If so, I am sorry. It is a sign of the Devil achieving his ends in regards to your sentiments though. Nothing pleases the prince of lies more than when he manages to corrupt the pure and spread hatred of the ultimate truths by doing so. I pray that you will find God in the silence of an earnest prayer.

[marooned]

It sounds like you were abused by the "clergy" of a Christian faith of some sort. If so, I am sorry. It is a sign of the Devil achieving his ends in regards to your sentiments though. Nothing pleases the prince of lies more than when he manages to corrupt the pure and spread hatred of the ultimate truths by doing so. I pray that you will find God in the silence of an earnest prayer.

God is never found in dogma. Organized religion is always in question. Organized religion often = dogma. it's the force that has betrayed so many ppl, the world over.

[End]

@Eliza Thomason You do have a point. It is indeed too late to avert the full measure of a "judgement" from on high. We have all collectively sinned too greatly without even a hint of repentance. But, like you said, prayer can still mitigate the judgement. A good reason things have gotten this bad, after all, is because good Catholics have forgotten to keep the rosary and pray it on at least a daily basis.

[End]

God is never found in dogma. Organized religion is always in question. Organized religion often = dogma. it's the force that has betrayed so many ppl, the world over.

God is truth. Full stop. You let your negative experiences cloud your reason. I regret the pain you likely felt as a supposed exemplar/avatar of that truth violated you in a most unholy way. I cannot heal that wound by myself, but I must ask if you even believe that wound can be healed at all. For all sins, all wounds, can be healed if you believe in Christ...

[marooned]

God is truth. Full stop. You let your negative experiences cloud your reason. I regret the pain you likely felt as a supposed exemplar/avatar of that truth violated you in a most unholy way. I cannot heal that wound by myself, but I must ask if you even believe that wound can be healed at all. For all sins, all wounds, can be healed if you believe in Christ...

you who call people demonically obsessed for not agreeing with you... you expect me to see your points as valid? guess again. i am in extreme opposition to the religiously dogmatic.

[End]

you who call people demonically obsessed for not agreeing with you... you expect me to see your points as valid? guess again. i am in extreme opposition to the religiously dogmatic.

It is a test. I do not ask that you fully agree with me, just that you can even type out the words. I can fake an agreement with any position you propose save for outright and literal blasphemy and/or an endorsement of a blatant moral evil as the good.

For instance: "Knowledge is the ultimate gift". There, I typed out and posted a literal satanic gospel passage if we get right down to it. Now do likewise and post: "Jesus is the Christ and God has risen him from the dead."

I'd bet my balls you can't do it. Especially in this modern era of social media. Call my bluff and I post it all over Twitter and Facebook and boy oh boy, you think I hate you? Wait until you get the responses from your supposed "friends" on those platforms. The Death Cult is always most eager to consume their own .

[khcs]

And Just Like That

Everyone went from politics to a discussion of religious practices

[khcs]

Firearms sales are at record high.









Salesman - ENFP Huxley



Salesman - ESTP Zhukov












Democrats want new gun control laws.

[marooned]

I'd bet my balls you can't do it. Especially in this modern era of social media. Call my bluff and I post it all over Twitter and Facebook and boy oh boy, you think I hate you? Wait until you get the responses from your supposed "friends" on those platforms. The Death Cult is always most eager to consume their own .

passing your tests is obviously the highest aspiration of humankind

There are no friends on those platforms

PS I don't think you hate me and I don't hate you either

[khcs]

The Statue of Everything and Anything

[End]

And Just Like That

Everyone went from politics to a discussion of religious practices

Sad fact is, for most people, politics has become their religion.

[SGF]

Religious dogmas (or dogmas in general) are usually Ti/Fe. Especially when paired with Se/Ni.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk

When activists and protesters chant in the street... its like watching religious megachurch nutters chanting lmao.

I gotta wonder tho, do none of them feel the cringe inside?

If I were in that situation I'd be too embarrassed, would feel like an idiot and leave before the cringe twists my face like a sour lemon.

[Eliza Thomason]

God is never found in dogma. Organized religion is always in question. Organized religion often = dogma. it's the force that has betrayed so many ppl, the world over.

The truth of God is found in true dogma. The truth sets you free.

So what is so great about disorganized religion?

[Adam Strange]

It's easy to compare most any idea that has a devout following to a church.

MBTI is a church.

Socionics is a church.

Atheism is a church.

People who are in Facebook groups and odd subreddits? Churches.

Churches everywhere.

People form groups all the time, based on different ideas, and for different reasons. But there is a difference between groups that are based on faith and those based on evidence.

Unfortunately, Socionics is still mostly in the Faith-based camp. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence for its veracity, but no externally verifiable proof.

[xerx]

I've been thinking about what a second Trump term may look like. Predictions about the future are mostly useless, but I think it's fair to argue that Republicans will continue to focus on mass privatizations and tax cuts for corporations.

A Trump presidency may in fact give a giant boost to the corporate left, with companies like Google swooping in to buy highways and entire public works.

With liberal corporate power further consolidated, neoliberalism could become the permanent ideology of the Democratic party, and 'woke' culture could become the natural culture of the United States as a whole. Corporate elites are woke because it's so easy—they can look progressive and pat themselves on the back without actually having to change the system.



Whatever the case turns out to be, it's not clear that a second Trump presidency will be a decisive victory for right wing populism.

[SGF]

It's easy to compare most any idea that has a devout following to a church.

MBTI is a church.

Socionics is a church.

Atheism is a church.

People who are in Facebook groups and odd subreddits? Churches.

Churches everywhere.

MBTI & Socionics you don't need to believe in, nor socially participate in the group. These are just abstract logical models for something that is visible IRL. Tools for personal guidance. Their ambiguity does bother me a lot tho, I don't think I'm interested in the community aspect.

Atheism is mere non belief. Asserting that there is no God or Gods is not something real atheists do. Gathering in atheist groups is BS as well. There is no church for the skeptics. Militant atheists just don't get it imo. Atheists are not a community.

I wouldn't know about Facebook as I deleted mine a decade ago & I don't use reddit.

I mainly meant publicly expressing it tho, to manifest the feelings publicly or to other ppl.. To me it would be very awkward, would feel cringe and I would never do it. Its why I find that I can't act as well. To be part of a group and chant like that is not something I'd ever do, in church or otherwise even if I held beliefs or feelings related to it.. not even then. Those things are private and will stay so.

I'm more of a lone wolf anyway and groups are not my thing.

I mainly express feelings and values by contributing through work and effort to the cause or to the group or the person I care for or through argumentation, but when I feel something for someone, argumentation is never a good way to express it.

I've been thinking about what a second Trump term may look like. Predictions about the future are mostly useless, but I think it's fair to argue that Republicans will continue to focus on mass privatizations and tax cuts for corporations.

A Trump presidency may in fact give a giant boost to the corporate left, with companies like Google swooping in to buy highways and entire public works.

With liberal corporate power further consolidated, neoliberalism could become the permanent ideology of the Democratic party, and 'woke' culture could become the natural culture of the United States as a whole. Corporate elites are woke because it's so easy—they can look progressive and pat themselves on the back without actually having to change the system.



Whatever the case turns out to be, it's not clear that a second Trump presidency will be a decisive victory for right wing populism.

Lets hope he doesn't win, but the democrat option is really bad as well. Imo you guys are doomed..for now.

[xerx]

Lets hope he doesn't win, but the democrat option is really bad as well. Imo you guys are doomed..for now.

The new generations coming up seem to have different ideas from the baby boomers. Someday we'll know whether that congeals into movements capable of taking over their respective political parties.

[SGF]

Socionics is not very ambiguous and is a pretty strict model. MBTI on the other hand has grown to be pretty vague.

Atheism is a belief that there is no higher spiritual being, but people still defend it to their last breath. People can believe in it, treat it however they like, and that still makes them an atheist. "Atheists are not a community" there is a community for everything but not always in the way you seem to think.

I don't use or have either sites but I'm saying that social media can host communities of sorts. An example being on this very site.

Your final point is subjective but not very counter-cultural imo and almost sounds compliant. People not really willing to take a stand. People who go to protests are not always outwardly passionate, but they usually do need to have a lot of energy.

When 10 ppl can disagree wildly on the same individual's type without a way to form an accurate and valid assessment.. I consider that vague.

Atheism is not a belief, its the lack of it. There is no doctrine, no gospel, no church, no belief or values only "I don't know.. Where is the evidence for your unicorn?" It is hollow & nihilistic. Source: https://www.atheists.org/activism/re...about-atheism/ To be united by skepticism is a fickle alliance at best, one not even worth entertaining.

Yeah, this is a community of sorts.

Idk, I can't even express my feelings to my own mother really and I don't view feelings as a weakness or some drivel like that (on the contrary). One time I almost burst into tears in front of her, so I clenched my teeth, walked to the bathroom and cried alone. Public displays of affection I'd avoid.. they are kinda cringe imo. It is subjective, yeah. Its weird imo when ppl do that, but ofc. for many others it is totally normal group behavior I guess. >.> chanting, yelling or outright emotional drama "fighting" is O.O worse.. I avoid that like the plague.

[SGF]

Wow, 10 people. I've only been here for really 4 months maybe, but I've never seen 10 individuals wildly disagree that much on one single person's type. That would be insane. At most I've seen people propose 3-4 types for an individual, and the variables usually include that the individual doesn't know themselves very well, they're putting on a mask in all of their posts due to various reasons, so on. But Socionics is a very strict theory even if there are accents to it, and is certainly not nearly as scattered as MBTI.

It was a random example. We have no surefire way to establish anyone's type with certainty and accuracy.

Atheism is certainly a belief but it's not a belief system. That is where your argument falls apart even in the link you share. That link is quite pushy and odd, and they are acting as if they're the standard for atheism.

As I said its not a belief. That is the definition of atheism.
Belief is a leap of faith.. atheists have no faith ^^', they take no leap of faith. Its just skepticism.
Its why they say the burden of proof is on theists.

Yeah, this is true. its why I always say "Tragically I am an atheist." Atheism sucks. A lot of ppl who are atheists suck imo, example Steve Shives or Dawkins himself. It all makes me depressed tbh.

There's no unicorn in religion (except maybe mentioned once in some versions of the bible iirc, lycanthropy certainly happened in the bible fwiw you lone wolf) so I've no idea what you're on about.

I used it as a substitute for God ie. Theists assert x God exists, therefore they have to prove it, otherwise its like saying magic leprechauns exist.

I don't understand the place of your final point. Yeah, emotional displays and the way people react to them are subjective. I don't think anyone likes ostentatious and obnoxious emotional displays.

So why do they keep doing them?
Imo I'm just whining about stuff, but you responded, so.

[SGF]

Rupert Sheldrake understands I see..

[SGF]

There's books, websites, and many reliable Socionics theorists who have put studies out there.

I guess thats why socionics authories disagree on typings. Ok. To me it just looks like opinions. A margin of error above 2% is a big problem.

I am talking about personal beliefs and not belief systems, there is a huge difference. Air, love, music. These are 3 incredibly different things that people "believe" in. But it is not always a spiritual thing, is it? That's my point.

This page you linked are just random people who grouped up to say they have authority over others and their beliefs, they may as well be a church (or anti-church).

Ppl can have varying beliefs, sure, but objective truth is singular. Its not relevant what they believe outside of/for themselves.
I can see color, a colorblind person can't see the same range. It means we both perceive the world slightly differently, but the world as the thing in itself is realistically unknowable to both of us through the senses.. but its still the same thing regardless of how we see it.

Atheism is quite literally just a belief imo. Not to be associated with the people. Think what you want.


Again, lazy and insulting to everyone in general to use it in a debate, and overall a waste of time since it derails from the main debate.

You don't seem to understand atheism. I just gave you the Ti definition.

[khcs]

I guess thats why socionics authories disagree on typings.

The big guys do not want the masses, including you, to know how to identify Jungian types.

[Eliza Thomason]

How does it compare to IEEs intense dislike for 100% set judgement, (dogma not derived from actual Te) based organizations, and bits like 'their creativity sees nothing as predetermined' (see: Filatova)? IEEs also don't recognize formal subordination and 'see no piety towards authorities' (whether religious or not; see again Filatova on IEEs).

More: [good points]...

Thanks for sensible, intelligent Socionics questions and I will get back to this when I can give it reflection and time. But yes, it would seem, from these statements, that among truly devout and practicing Catholics, one would not find ANY IEEs at all. Nor, for that matter, among staunch Anglicans, Orthodox, Muslims or Buddhists. It seems from those IEE descriptions that if IEEs were in organized religion at all, they would dwell on the fringes, being not fully committed, and so among the devout religious members of a faith there would be 15 types....


But in reality I am sure each religion has the full 16. A long-running favorite show of mine is Marcus Grodi's Journey Home program, where each week, a guest tells his/her stroy, explaining how/why they got to be Catholic. They are from every faith tradition, many being Protestant pastors whose conversion cost them their beloved career and livelihood, also New-Agers, Wiccan, the spiritual-but-not-religious, and quite a variety of staunch atheists. The point is, I particularly enjoy that these many types of folk also reveal themselves to be every single Socionics type as well. Such variety. Satisfyingly demonstrating that truly, "All roads lead to Rome".

So your points about IEE and 100% set judgment, and more, are excellent ones, and I will think it through and reply at a later time. (I think I am not at a good time for "in-depth" thinking as I have such a breadth of things nagging for my attention right now).

____________________

P.S. When I answer, I will copy your post and start a new thread since this doesn't pertain to Trumps re-election.

[Eliza Thomason]

The big guys do not want the masses, including you, to know how to identify Jungian types.

I think there may be some truth to this. I have wondered this before. Socionics is amazing excellent information, but like amazing excellent info concerning so many things (like cheap amazingly effect natural health remedies, for only one example) it seems deliberately hidden or sidelined.

Concerning Socionics, why do you think this is the case?

[SGF]

Yes, people interpret things differently (see below). But the definitions are usually pretty clear cut.



That's health which has nothing to do with how people perceive beliefs and concepts. Yeah, a person's health shapes their worldview, but you're talking about something else entirely different.


Socionics has nothing to do with this. The site you linked is just some random site claiming to speak for all atheists, and trying to recruit more atheists by twisting concepts, religion, and logic. I could link a site called nazi.org and have them say they speak for all nazis, but would they really? Our definitions are different, which I respect, and if you want to follow that site then that's fine, but the concept is the same in the end.

Unless we agree on a standard definition and hold it as true, communication breaks down and I have to constantly inquire about the other party's pov or what the same words mean for them, which is not efficient, leads to errors, misunderstandings and conflict.

It would be pointless to communicate as my world and someone else's would struggle to understand each-other. There should be no multiple interpretations of "atheism" only one.

IF two people can't agree on a definition, that means they are talking about 2 different things and the argument is about semantics.

IF in this case atheism is a belief that god does not exist, then I'm not an atheist and I wasn't talking about atheism.

[Eliza Thomason]

I speak to the churches I encountered. I speak to their lies. They can burn in their own conceptions of hell. I will NEVER believe them. They tried to screw me over as a child, and so far I cannot forgive them.

I am so sorry you have been exposed to lying churches and lying people in them. There are many such liars and false prophets - Jesus warned us there always would be! Sometimes they are outright liars, and sometimes they are folk who honestly believed and adapted these lies, and live by them, act on them, and defend them, as well as try to convince you that you must, too. (People seem to be extra-zealous about this in a case where they have adopted lies as truth. It's almost as if somewhere inside themselves they don't believe it, and they need to recruit you to their view in order to confirm their choice, rather than reconsider those beliefs, which is too hard, frightening, or seemingly impossible to do).

You have suffered spiritual abuse through these lies. Lies ensnare. You have rejected lies now and you taste the freedom from them and never want to go back there. In matters small and large, the truth sets you free.

Just don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Keep seeking truth.

Every mind virus in my head, I'll consider it, but when I ultimately find it lacking, I am DONE with it. There is another mind virus in my head now. I am considering it, I am taking it unto myself, but know, if it fails my tests, it is over and done with.

I pray, inumbra, that you will be able to sort truth from lies in whatever you are considering. God says that if anyone seeks wisdom, He will pour it out in great measure!

Assholes rule this world, they always have. And I believe you understand what I'm talking about.

I think you are right. But in spite of what we see, ultimately God is Sovereign. He allows us to wallow in our own errors for awhile and reap what we sow. But these errors cause the suffering of innocents and therefore God will not withhold his hand of Justice forever. We can expect God to act.

[SGF]

That must mean atheists don't have any beliefs in anything, like air, love, music, or the world, which is sad Pouring one out for my depressed atheist homies.

Do you believe in Odin, the furious one? Serious question.

[khcs]

Keep Up The Flight


Hollywood's Apocalypse NOW: Rich and famous are fleeing in droves as liberal politics and coronavirus turn City of Dreams into a pit plagued by junkies and violent criminals Link

Warning: Comment section is kind of uncensored.

[SGF]

I'm not furious and never was. I'm a depressed atheist who doesn't believe in anything

<.<.. I was going to use it to try and explain atheism.. but you sidestepped it nicely with Fe heart-string pulls. *sigh* ppl around me suffering lately, kinda worried about them.

I wrote roughly this in some other thread recently:

Lack of meaning leads to pessimism and nihilism, in turn leads to depression and apathy. Apathy = death.
I want to escape it tbh, to transcend it, to find meaning and not merely to survive, but to LIVE.

I want to live and I want others to live. I'm not fond on non-belief or this idea of a meaningless mechanized existence.

[SGF]

I'm self-demonstrating how atheists aren't allowed to believe in anything. I'm not trying to be emotionally manipulative to tug on heart-strings.

I do hope that you and the people around you feel better soon.

fuck, I thought you were a depressed atheist and I was making it worse.

[SGF]

I apologize for that haha.

I really do hope everything goes better for you and your loved ones though.

e_e well if you would be a depressed atheist.. I'd apparently care.
Yeah.. not sure what to do tbh, when life sucks for ppl I care about and I'm not sure how I can help them.. its frustrating.

[marooned]

my posts here were so extreme. i'm developing an inner extremism problem and that's not right or fair to either of you @End and @Eliza Thomason. it's not even honest. it's like some ugly head rearing up, tending towards the strongest language possible.

[marooned]

Nah, you were doing okay. You have the same 'I'm sorry' problem as greenfaerie. You don't have to apologize anyone, lol.

i do. i attacked for the sake of attacking. this unruly thing in me needed to create drama.

it is the weakest way to be. it is pathetic.

[marooned]

I think you 'attacked' them because what they say deeply violate your basic beliefs, your sense of kindness, truth, whatever. And I think you were okay in this case, it's not an 'unruly' attack. Again, maybe you aren't 100% right (I admit I didn't read the whole thing to be exact, but from what I know about your opinions are pretty much 'common sense' and thoughtful at once), but I don't think there is a particular reason to weep. You are doing fine. Sometimes others are to be ashamed, if anyone has to be.

worry not, i am dreadfully ashamed. i don't truly wish to shame others. it's myself i feel the most ashamed of. i projected that, and it's not right. on the spiritual plane humans harm each other all the time because this existence is suffering. this existence is defined by harming one another all the time.

[Eliza Thomason]

worry not, i am dreadfully ashamed. i don't truly wish to shame others. it's myself i feel the most ashamed of. i projected that, and it's not right. on the spiritual plane humans harm each other all the time because this existence is suffering. this existence is defined by harming one another all the time.

I bolded that part that is SO TRUE. Amen to that. There is so much pain in the world. We hurt and offend each other so much. The heart of God HURTS for every single hurt inflicted on hearts.

I also think there is no reason to be ashamed. You were bold, but you said that you had experienced lies, and the painful results of those, so the strong response seemed naturally connected to that.

[Eliza Thomason]

Yes. I'm actually willing to think to see a fixed/set/dogmatic IEE is extremely unlikely. It literally goes against their type. They may be in higher ranks of various religions (as often religions are a social thing), but you see how they run away from 'set rules' here and there. It's similar for SEEs. Both types may nevertheless use their faith (if they believe) to 'spread some good message and deeds', but there is no dogma and anything-more-than-basic in rules.

I actually know one IEE who is a 'strongly faithful' Catholic. She was born into a family of people practicing - in her case faith is strongly correlated to her (minority) culture and identity. I, myself, truly believe she is a strong believer and beliefs in good will and helping others. But, if you run into some 'questions' with her, you see how far she goes away from literal dogma sometimes. Examples below.

'What do you think about how the church treats LGBT+ people?' It's awful. I have many LGBT+ friends, both non-hetero and trans. I think I could date someone trans. I accept everyone and cherish them.
'Don't you think priests here make way too much money?' Oh, of course they are! The church and swimming in riches is just wrong.
'Do you think there should be a separation of church and state?' Yes, I do. I have many non-believing friends as well and I share their opinion on this. I think the church's influence in our country is too strong and sick, especially with how they mingle with our conservative government.
'What do you think about abortion?' It's a complicated issue. I personally would never abort, but some cases are very sad and maybe there should be some sort of compromise. Maybe each case should be treated individually.
'There are many awful things in the Bible...' Yes, sure they are. I also think some of these are awful. But I don't think it's 100% literally true, just written under God's influence... So you have to be more careful with some passages and see the spirit. I also think New Testament is a better source than the Old one.
'Pope dogmas and various historic things?' Not infallible. People are people, not God.
'Damnation?' I think there should be punishment, and maybe some souls... But no, I think rehabilitation is more important. Goodness will prevail in the end.

And so on and so on. To the question, 'okay, so why don't you switch to some protestant faith that better matches your actual beliefs and has only those core things you agree with' I was answered with a baffled expression 'yeah, but my family is there and I was always there, I've actually found many alike friends and so on'. Understandable she doesn't want to upset anyone and is used to her own social circle (which I assume is pretty similar). She cares about kindness in the most natural way you can expect.

This is a very different approach from citing dogmas and expecting someone to fit them, or accept them.

Wow! I got a lot from that. Yet this one would be easier to respond to first, so I might start by (later) responding to this one first. Like how I would answer those Q's, and why I think she answered them that way. I want to explain that. I get it. I see just where she is coming from. And yes, that sounds like an IEE response.

It is a grace that filial and social affection keeps her coming to the Lord's House. But the truth is there is a stench - the Catholic Church founded by Jesus is overwhelmingly (but not completely) infiltrated - like "deep state", there is a "deep church" - and she is not yet woke to the fact that the most life-giving truths of our faith have been systematically hidden from her. She has been ROBBED of her rightful heritage. I will pray now for her, with confidence, that she be given the graces to someday answer your final question with:

"Because Jesus HIMSELF is there! ALL of Jesus - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity! If I don't partake of his Body and Blood, I will have NO LIFE in me! And anyway, to whom would I go? He has the words of eternal life!" *

___
*See John 6:66 (Find it here in context. Context is always key! https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...+6&version=KJV )

[Eliza Thomason]

Could khcs be a bot?

[marooned]

I bolded that part that is SO TRUE. Amen to that. There is so much pain in the world. We hurt and offend each other so much. The heart of God HURTS for every single hurt inflicted on hearts.

I also think there is no reason to be ashamed. You were bold, but you said that you had experienced lies, and the painful results of those, so the strong response seemed naturally connected to that.

do not forgive me. damn, there's no escape from the ego, not even this attempt to denounce it. why does everything suck so much? don't give me weirdo christian explanations, i beg you.

[Eliza Thomason]

I mean he/she/it is approaching my number of posts in 6 months time and it took me 8 years and six months to get to this. It's machine-like post generation. And he/she/it does not seem to ever communicate with anyone, can't seem to read since he/she/it does not respond/comment on anyone's posts. Also he/she/it has no profile, no friends - he/she/it is pretty much an island. A mechanical one at that.

[marooned]

FAIR.