NBA players

[kensi]

I have the perfect website for you: www.braintypes.com. They specialize in typing athletes using their own brain/movement-based system, but applying Myers-Briggs terminology. It shares some similarities with socionics;

Jason

Been checking them out for 5 or so years.....Be carefull what you read...not everything is accurate.....the man is a bit of o con-artist.(or so the theory is out there)

Having said that there is some good stuff there too.

[kensi]

My guesses:

Gasol: ENTj



Jordan: INFj



Pippen: ESTj



Rodman: ESTp



Magic: ESFj

Rodman is ESFp glam

[kensi]

Oh wow, this is an interesting one... Phil Jackson's type.

Off the top, i don't know, i have a hunch at best,.... but he reminds me of Pat Burns (the Ex-Beantown Bruin coach amongst other things)

[JuJu]

maybe try this.....i like these answers but i have been wrong before

• Kobe MBTI -SFP (though he has been acting somehat odd to his type as of late...hmmm....i even for a minute thought he was an ENFp--how silly of me)
• D-Wade----obvious INFp--can't miss it...the guy exudes Fe everywhere you look. Shaq always respected D.Wade a lot in his Miami days.....more so than Kobe. Shaq is MBTI xSTP--depending on intratim or extratim definition
• Magic---always ready to party- probably ESFP or maybe extratim ISFp
• M.J.------its been said before----He's an Assasin---i like the ISTj (TiSe) fit on him...also notice he exudes Fe pretty well to (probably anima)
• K.G.--prob similar to M.J.- but yet different---still ISTj...a very flexible ISTj
• Lebron - ESFp
• Dr. J--- I heard of him as an INFp before.....but he's pre mid 80's and beyond what i can assess him..............on a funny note...he couldn;t stop talking at the dunk contest justifying his score fior about 30 secs...it got the fans upset...maybe he is INFP....not exactly in tune with the SP nature of the dunk contest
• Tim Duncan--INFj---anyone misses this 'n they're blind (same type as Lennox Lewis--the boxer)
• Tony Parker- ISTp (Eva might be too)
• A.I- is ISTj (TiSe)

Hey.... I love to do this shit...what can i say.


What type is the now retired STEVE YOUNG of S.F.49ers........some difficulties figuring it out ?

I've typed most of the ppl on your list using Socionics, (the exceptions being the two SA Spurs,) so I might as well just give a run-down...

Kobe -- ESTp (After having watched interviews with him throughout the Finals, I believe that Strrrng is correct... Exudes Fe, you're right.)

D Wade -- ISFp (I agree with you that he exudes Fe... But not Beta Fe... Same type as Paul Pierce.)

Magic -- ESFp (He's a prototypical ESFp.)

Jordan -- Beta ST

K.G. -- ENFp (I understand how one could mistake KG's intensity for that of a Beta ST, but he is certainly an ethical type... This is a common mis-typing though, i.e. Garnett as ISTj. It's a good typing of his image, i.e. various marketing campaigns present him like that, but if you analyze his interviews, you'll see it's incorrect re: his actual type... Good phrases to describe Garnett's personality: inspirational leader, always talking, emotional to a fault, sincere, direct, wears emotions on his sleeve, etc. None of these accurately describe a ISTj. To describe his game: defers to teammates, finesse player, has been criticized for wilting during 'crunch time,' and not taking 'the big shot...' Again, this flies in the face of his 'assassin' image, but it's the truth about him, for better or worse... IMO, it's for the better. He was an inspirational, emotional leader for the Celtics this season.)

LeBron -- ESXp (Definitely values Se... Gamma values seem more plausible for LeBron than for Kobe, e.g. the respective stories about both players during the playoffs, which showed them with their families... The difference in values is illustrated well in those pieces.)

Dr. J -- INXp (cerebral player... reminiscent of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in that way, although I am not sure that they're the same type.)

Iverson -- Beta ST ("assassin," as you put it.)

I believe that you're coming from a different system than me, i.e. some other typing system, so I don't know where we'll get with this, but we'll see... I'm not sure about the guys on the Spurs you types, although it's obvious that they're both introverts...

Phil Jackson is Gamma NT

Steve Young? I'll look into it and get back to you.

I'm goin to the parade tomorrow for the Celtics...

[kensi]

I'm not sure which system you're coming from--MBTI? As you probably know, Socionics is different... I've typed most of the ppl on your list using Socionics, (the exceptions being the two SA Spurs,) so I might as well just give a run-down...

Kobe -- ESTp (After having watched interviews with him throughout the Finals, I believe that Strrrng is correct... Exudes Fe, you're right.)

D Wade -- ISFp (I agree with you that he exudes Fe... But not Beta Fe.)

Magic -- ESFp (He's a prototypical ESFp.)

Jordan -- Beta ST

K.G. -- ENFp (I understand how one could mistake KG's intensity for that of a Beta ST, but he is certainly an ethical type... This is a common mis-typing though, i.e. Garnett as ISTj. It's a good typing of his image, i.e. various marketing campaigns present him like that, but if you analyze his interviews, you'll see it's incorrect re: his actual type... Good phrases to describe Garnett's personality: inspirational leader, always talking, emotional to a fault, etc. None of these accurately describe a ISTj.)

LeBron -- ESXp (Definitely values Se... Gamma values seem more plausible for LeBron than for Kobe, e.g. the respective stories about both players during the playoffs, which showed them with their families... The difference in values is illustrated well there.)

Dr. J -- INXp

Iverson -- Beta ST

I believe that you're coming from a different system than me, i.e. some other typing system, so I don't know where we'll get with this, but we'll see... I'm not sure about the guys on the Spurs you mentioned... Phil Jackson is Gamma NT... Steve Young? Off the top of my head, I would say Gamma values; however, I'd need to look into it.

I come attempting to incorporate both systems as there can be only one shared right answer. MBTI and Socionics should still be the same at the base level of functional use (aside J/P controversy)... though the actual people portraits or profiles within have some conspicuous differences ..........in basic the functions represent the ultimate reality which provides for manifestation.



I dont like the Kobe one.

I can live with D.WADE as ISFp but i think he is a lot like EMMANUEL STEWARD (INFp and definitely BETA) , the boxing trainer....there are different subtypes of INFp.

K.G.---i stated what i did---i seenn some post game clips of him to see if he exemplified ENFp traits--to my recollection not..not even close----but i can take another look and get back to you...you never know till tou see someone's most relevant side.

The rest looks good or is at the very least negotiable.

btw...my hunch on Phil Jackson is NiTe

---parade----u better have a good time now cus they ain't winning it next year.

[JuJu]

[SIZE=1]btw...my hunch on Phil Jackson is NiTe

I agree with you about Phil Jackson.

To be honest, last year I wouldn't have typed Garnett ENFp either--but then I saw him almost everyday for a year... "It is what it is," as he'd say. Strong Fi.

I've had difficulty typing Kobe as well--to be honest, I think that he might have some mental inconsistencies, i.e. he is immature, and sometimes tries to be someone he's not, (IMO he tries very hard to emulate Jordan in almost every way--he's nearly 30, but in this way, he acts like he's still 15.) This behavior makes him difficult to type.

I'll check on Emmanuel Steward... Also, unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with hockey, (except Gretzky=ISTp.)

I disagree with you that Socionics types always = MBTI types, and that "there can be only one shared right answer." For example, in MBTI, Jordan is ISTp; in Socionics, he's Beta ST... I don't doubt that your typing is correct in the system that you're using... If you're up for it though, I suggest that you try typing exclusively by Socionics in this thread, i.e. functional preferences, quadras, etc--you may reach different conclusions re: players like Wade, Pierce, and Garnett.

[dbmmama]

I agree with you here.

To be honest, I wouldn't have typed Garnett as ENFp either, but then I saw him almost everyday for the past year... "It is what it is," as he'd say.

I've had difficulty typing Kobe as well--to be honest, I think that he might have some mental inconsistencies, i.e. he is immature, and sometimes tries to be someone he's not, (IMO he tries to emulate Jordan--he's almost 30, but in this way, he acts like he's still 15.) This behavior makes typing him difficult.

I'll check on Emmanuel Steward.

garnett has what i now call "JuJuness." ENFp

NiTe for jackson, eh? i like him....

i personally do not like kobe. adultry is so bad to me, boom, all respect gone.

[kensi]

I agree with you here.

To be honest, I wouldn't have typed Garnett as ENFp either, but then I saw him almost everyday for the past year... "It is what it is," as he'd say.

I've had difficulty typing Kobe as well--to be honest, I think that he might have some mental inconsistencies, i.e. he is immature, and sometimes tries to be someone he's not, (IMO he tries to emulate Jordan--he's almost 30, but in this way, he acts like he's still 15.) This behavior makes typing him difficult.



I'll check on Emmanuel Steward.

Consider David West your new ENFp lol (xNFp for sure i think----he's very intuitive--maybe not so much on this vid as in some of the others)

also i see him as an Ne subtype as his TvsF preference is very close together

but that s just my opinion.
also check out CHRIS PAUL in some of the postgame vids ---He's ENFj for sure...he uses FeSe activation


sorry its not a direct link
http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.ph...nk&nbasite=nba

[kensi]

BTW, I disagree with you that Socionics types = MBTI types... I believe that's why our lists look different--that said, I don't doubt that you're correct in the system that you're using... I don't know if you're up for it, but if you try typing exclusively by Socionics this time, you may reach different results re: players like Wade, Pierce, and Garnett.

By equating the two i don't mean they as systems are equal...i mean that the underlying fuels that consitute the only relevant preferential axis (the first 2 functions)....the notation for this .......is equal..................some discretion must be used to account for Profile differences, J/P conversion for introverts, subtypes, intra/extratim considerations and the like..........but the fundamental preferential axis (that which constitutes the very designation of type)is the same for both systems.....and as such transfer is possible

...it is a philosophical system...the whole body though.

[JuJu]

garnett has what i now call "JuJuness." ENFp

NiTe for jackson, eh? i like him....

i personally do not like kobe. adultry is so bad to me, boom, all respect gone.

HAHA! Jujuness!! (yay!)

I agree with you about Kobe too.

Consider David West your new ENFp lol (xNFp for sure i think----he's very intuitive--maybe not so much on this vid as in some of the others)

also i see him as an Ne subtype as his TvsF preference is very close together

but that s just my opinion.
also check out CHRIS PAUL in some of the postgame vids ---He's ENFj for sure...he uses FeSe activation


sorry its not a direct link
http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.ph...nk&nbasite=nba

David West is Fi-valuing irrational for sure... I'll try to check out a few more interviews to get to know him better.

By equating the two i don't mean they as systems are equal...i mean that the underlying fuels that consitute the only relevant preferential axis (the first 2 functions)....the notation for this .......is equal..................some discretion must be used to account for Profile differences, J/P conversion for introverts, subtypes, intra/extratim considerations and the like..........but the fundamental preferential axis (that which constitutes the very designation of type)is the same for both systems.....and as such transfer is possible

...it is a philosophical system...the whole body though.

The Jungian foundation is the same... I agree with you, there is some correlation between types from both systems... In my experience, the Jungian foundation can be a good starting off point for discerning someone's type in Socionics, definitely... Ultimately though, there are some other factors that one has to take into account when typing ppl with Socionics (vs. for example, MBTI.) This is where learning about the individual functions comes in... quadra values, etc. You seem to know this though, so yeah, lol

[kensi]

For example, in MBTI, Jordan is ISTp; in Socionics, he's Beta ST... I don't doubt that your typing is correct in the system that you're using... If you're up for it though, I suggest that you try typing exclusively by Socionics in this thread, i.e. functional preferences, quadras, etc--you may reach different conclusions re: players like Wade, Pierce, and Garnett.

Its a bit of a philosophical communication issue....but you can convert from MBTI to Socionics (and vive-v) so long as you are converting your own definitive answers eg. and not somebody's hypothetical test results


eg. Si is always Si and Te always Te...despite some botched-ness in the profiles.
All my answers i try to provide using Socionics notation wherever possible since this is a socionics site....but some smaller relations within are more easily adressed thru MBTI. I always note the two...or at least try...the small j or big J issue etc at the very very least.

[kensi]

This is where learning about the individual functions comes in... quadra values, etc. You seem to know this though, so yeah, lol

Yeah Quadra is huge....just as is intertype.

btw..i've been doing this for some 5 or 6 years off and on. Been away from it for over a year or so....so some communication using mainstream definitions may seem a little bit foggy from me...that 'n the fact i'm supposedly a dominant N...so that may make me look foggy but you probably know about that already lol

[JuJu]

Its a bit of a philosophical communication issue....but you can convert from MBTI to Socionics (and vive-v) so long as you are converting your own definitive answers eg. and not somebody's hypothetical test results


eg. Si is always Si and Te always Te...despite some botched-ness in the profiles.
All my answers i try to provide using Socionics notation wherever possible since this is a socionics site....but some smaller relations within are more easily adressed thru MBTI. I always note the two...or at least try...the small j or big J issue etc at the very very least.

To be honest with you, I'm not familiar enough with the ins-and-outs of MTBI theory to go there with you during this conversation, but I trust what you're saying... I'm more interested in Socionics because I find that it gets to the essence of ppl, IMO, as opposed to characterize their superficial commonalities. (Not to say that MBTI can only do that, or always does that... I've seen it used very effectively for certain things, e.g. career counseling.)

The inter-type relations in Socionics are what interest me the most... If you're ENFp, we're working with the same functions, lol--yeah, maybe that's why I understand what you're saying, haha. We've been interested in this stuff for about the same amount of time too.

Regardless, if you've typed (are typing) any more NBA players, let's keep it rolling... It's cool that you're interested in this. There are some fans here from all over the North America, including dbmmama, strrrng... Europe too, (FDG.)

[kensi]

The inter-type relations in Socionics are what interest me the most... If you're ENFp, we're working with the same functions, lol--yeah, maybe that's why I understand what you're saying, haha. We've been interested in this stuff for about the same amount of time too.

Regardless, if you've typed (are typing) any more NBA players, let's keep it rolling... It's cool that you're interested in this. There are some fans here from all over the North America, including dbmmama, strrrng... Europe too, (FDG.)

intrtype----yeah, i hear what you're sayin' bro'. I'd be lost without intertype and Quadras....MBTI has their own version too but i tend too stik with the SOCx version

I cant say for 100% that i am ENFp. I originally had myself diagnosed as INFp up till about 3 years ago when i decided it wasn't quite adding up. Been ENFp for about 2 years now n' i'm lovin it --everything makes sense intertype and especially quadra-wise.

I'll warn you though that there are a lot of different subtypes of ENFPs like the otheres too....not all of them see eye to eye but overall i think its pretty good.

I like NBA.

....but do you do anything else besides hoops. I do just about everything except baseball--too painfull to watch--ouch!

thx for the heads up

[Gilly]

Juju the way you describe Garnett make him sound vastly more like an Fe type than Fi; Fi types don't tend to be that emotionally demonstrative. They can be intense, for sure, but rarely would be described as being overtly emotional and fiery the way Garnett is. I also find IEE to be an unlikely type for him, based both on my (limited) knowledge of him and what you say here.

[JuJu]

Juju the way you describe Garnett make him sound vastly more like an Fe type than Fi; Fi types don't tend to be that emotionally demonstrative. They can be intense, for sure, but rarely would be described as being overtly emotional and fiery the way Garnett is. I also find IEE to be an unlikely type for him, based both on my (limited) knowledge of him and what you say here.

IEI would be the other option for him, although I consider it less likely given what I've seen of his interaction, (quite a lot, actually.) I'm very confident that Garnett is XNFp... I say ENFp b/c I've seen him criticize Se demonstrations on many occasions, and utilize Fi with ease... If you've ever seen him with his family or teammates joking around, you'd probably agree that infantile seems a good bet, etc.

Beyond this, IEEs can be overtly emotional and fiery in competition... I'm interested to see who you consider to be a ENFp black athlete, NBA player, etc. Maybe you have a totally different conception of the type, or the manifestations of the functions.

My experience evaluating the following player is limited, so I can't type him with as much accuracy as Garnett, but Chris Webber appears to be ENFp:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=onmfcvEnqeA

[Gilly]

I dunno...honestly I don't have enough info on exactly what he is like as a person to continue here, but I think the fiery intensity you describe sounds more like a characteristic of an Fe type than an Fi type.

[JuJu]

I dunno...honestly I don't have enough info on exactly what he is like as a person to continue here, but I think the fiery intensity you describe sounds more like a characteristic of an Fe type than an Fi type.

Fair enough... I'll tell you though, I've considered Fe types as well--initially even... After seeing him a lot, it became apparent that a lot of that's due to socialization, (esp in his chosen career,) public face v. private face, things like that... I agree, it's a tough one to pick out without much exposure to him.

[kensi]

Juju the way you describe Garnett make him sound vastly more like an Fe type than Fi; Fi types don't tend to be that emotionally demonstrative. They can be intense, for sure, but rarely would be described as being overtly emotional and fiery the way Garnett is. I also find IEE to be an unlikely type for him, based both on my (limited) knowledge of him and what you say here.

Assuming he is a T dominant......what is left to be determined is whether he fights for Fi like an ENTj would or for Fe like an ISTj would......it's your dual nature and resurrecting it ...is ultimately the one thing worth fighting for. This resurected dual nature does not exist the whole time but comes up in spurts when an athlete is having success...not all athletes demonstrate their awareness of it.

This T dominant is just a lead theory that i prefer to work off of.....i'll have to go view a couple of clips today to make any confirmation or disregard it altogether.

[kensi]

IEI would be the other option for him, although I consider it less likely given what I've seen of his interaction, (quite a lot, actually.) I'm very confident that Garnett is XNFp... I say ENFp b/c I've seen him criticize Se demonstrations on many occasions, and utilize Fi with ease... If you've ever seen him with his family or teammates joking around, you'd probably agree that infantile seems a good bet, etc.

Beyond this, IEEs can be overtly emotional and fiery in competition... I'm interested to see who you consider to be a ENFp black athlete, NBA player, etc. Maybe you have a totally different conception of the type, or the manifestations of the functions.

My experience evaluating the following player is limited, so I can't type him with as much accuracy as Garnett, but Chris Webber appears to be ENFp:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=onmfcvEnqeA

Seen half the video...

Yeah. Definitely. He certainly does...
hmmm...what team does he play for now??

btw. John Salley is ESFj

[kensi]

Fair enough... I'll tell you though, I've considered Fe types as well--initially even... After seeing him a lot, it became apparent that a lot of that's due to socialization, (esp in his chosen career,) public face v. private face, things like that... I agree, it's a tough one to pick out without much exposure to him.

I think that ENFps (not all subtypes though) have a certain aniable nature much like a lit of ESFps except for ENFps this only comes in the midst of Ne valuing considerations.

Fe (dominant or creative) types have the ability to constantly maintain an Fe way of logic about themselves and their situation.

[kensi]

If you think that Garnett is ENFp, you've been smoking some good shit. Garnett is probably ISTj.

RE: K.G.

i've looked into this again..for about a half an hour....this time with a little more depth......i watched about 4 press conferences, 1 -one on one- interview....and 1 vid from his T-Wolves days....

Its not an easy decision to make.

I don't think K.G. fits in well into classical socionics....

First off, he seems quite shy ....or at least camera shy...and yet not at other times...i was a little puzzled......he even talked about a bully at his probably last press conference...to me a speculative symbol of a super-ego influence....but it could of refered to just about anything else..

After considering a combination of choices ISTj and ENTj and going back and forth between the two...things were about even...

I looked closer and believe that the source of his shyness may be that he is Si dominant from the expressions i was getting from him.

I have him as SiTe.......but this is a bit odd for me to give him this label cause i know of a lot of ISTps that act nothing like he does. The deciding factor for me was that i had a boss with the exact same style (in a former job ) that matched his temperament and i had definitely labelled him as SiTe.
Nevertheless he may match the actual type description of an ISTj better to some people.

Furthermore I seem to pickup gamma energy readings off of him...unlike a lot of other ISTps i've known. This leads me to believe that he is a gamma sub-type Te....one similar to an INTp. I am happy with this conclusion for the time being as my original reasonable hunch was not too far off....not that that was a deciding factor.

I have his prefered quadra functions as Si,Te,Fi,Ne and in that order.

Having said that.....as an ENFp myself, i don't think that i would get along all that great with his ISTP subtype of Te.....now does that make me an Ne subtype...i don't know.... probably.??

I am very confident though that he is not ENFp....but i think you were onto something to put him overall into the delta quadra.....even though he doesn't fit the type of deltas that i would wanna hang out with.


what do you think....?




.....btw..this quote is good for 30 days, lol,lol,lol

[JuJu]

I agree with you that he's Delta... He definitely values Si>Se--I agree with you there, and it's cool that you spotted that. (Si>Se, btw, rules out Gamma--I know that you know that, but I'm writing, just for the ppl who might be reading this who don't know it.)

I agree with you about his quadra functions, i.e. the Delta functions=Si, Fi, Te, Ne... I've reached a different conclusion than you though about his type w/in the Delta quadra, i.e. that he's ENFp.

Here's why: he displays too much emotionality to be ISTp... If you read about what kind of person he is, about his family life, about how he motivates his teammates--all of this would be highly abnormal for a ISTp... Regardless, he is an irrational Delta--you're right there... For comparison between the two irrational Deltas, here's an interview with ISTP Kendrick Perkins... I believe that you'll be able to notice the difference between Fi creative and Fi valuing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MPdOX_TxtB0

I don't doubt that KG could be ISTp in MBTI... Regardless, I believe that you're on the right track here, i.e. Delta irrational. talk to you soon.

[kensi]

I agree with you that he's Delta... He definitely values Si>Se--I agree with you there, and it's cool that you spotted that. (Si>Se, btw, rules out Gamma--I know that you know that, but I'm writing, just for the ppl who might be reading this who don't know it.)

I agree with you about his quadra functions, i.e. the Delta functions=Si, Fi, Te, Ne... I've reached a different conclusion than you though about his type w/in the Delta quadra, i.e. that he's ENFp.

Here's why: he displays too much emotionality to be ISTp... If you read about what kind of person he is, about his family life, about how he motivates his teammates--all of this would be highly abnormal for a ISTp... Regardless, he is an irrational Delta--you're right there... For comparison between the two irrational Deltas, here's an interview with ISTP Kendrick Perkins... I believe that you'll be able to notice the difference between Fi creative and Fi valuing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MPdOX_TxtB0

I don't doubt that KG could be ISTp in MBTI... Regardless, I believe that you're on the right track here, i.e. Delta irrational. talk to you soon.

I havn't read any articles about him (so yes-- i'm lacking some information---and this is an information game)however i would be a little bit skeptical from the point of view that in sports there are your "Big Men"---the 2 players from each team (on average) who are always meant to be glorified...and in the media...certain qualities get overblown for their cause....i've noticed this a lot.

If he has real emotionality...it would have to be real and genuine and come out in a normal mannner......it cant be the type that is tried to be forced to come out ..as that would be abnormal.....and abnormalities cannot be substituted for normalities when typing. (eg.too you can't count his emotionality after winning the big one....some athlete like to hype it up this way...usually the TiSe ones i've noticed)

Also i don't see K.G. have really high EP tendancies on the court , nor in the interviews.....clearly you'd think ENFp is reasonably high in EP.....he's like a shell...that's the feeling i get.........it's understandable if an athlete is struggling to go into a shell....but he has been a top40 player his whole life...there is no reson for him to go into a shell...if anything he would be able to relate to others' Fi and build with Ne. NF's tend to be the best at communicating in general.....he too wanted to throw a lot of questions over to Paul.P during an interview (think it was after game 3/ not sure though)....at his level this seems quite odd....but not if you are an ISTx and are in the presence of an NF say.

Also it is somewhat hard in this business to have to relocate somebody on your typing chart once you have already comfortably slotted him in somewhere you like where he relates to other people under that same heading.

You probably considered to some extent everything i said already.

Maybe you will be content with slotting him in as a second-liner in the ENFp category (a 6th man --off the bench---to help the ENFp cause out with) lol...but you can keep him a first liner if you like that's your call!

....On Kendrick Perkins...yes, he does look and act like an ISTp.....i just think that K.G. is a different subtype from him.

What Subtype do you think he (Kendrick) is ?

Also wondering if you have a type and subtype for the funny crazy man-- Charles Barkley?


ttyl

[JuJu]

Kevin Garnett -- ENFp... Those of you who disagreed initially, let's see what you believe now after watching this... Pierce, btw, is ISFp--Garnett's semi-dual. peace

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/...deo?id=3455016

[kensi]

Kevin Garnett -- ENFp... Those of you who disagreed initially, let's see what you believe now after watching this... Pierce, btw, is ISFp--Garnett's semi-dual. peace

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/...deo?id=3455016

To your credit J.N has him labelled ENFP ...and Paul Pierce MBTI ISFP.......P.P is not MBTI ISFP (FiSe) in my opinion. J.N in my opinion is only right half the time.

Funny thing is, I have an ISFp brother and I myself (as an ENFp) am very, very extraverted around the presence of an ISFp. There is no comparison in those levels. This, at least looking at it this way, should mean that K.G would be a lot more extraverted then P.P. This is not the case. P.P seems to be the more extraverted of the two...though not by much. Between the two, ISTp and ISFp may make for a better extraversion interpretation. Also .....even if he really is ISTp....thats not to say that he can't exume alot of ENFP traits from time to time.....I know myself that sometimes i go into an ISTp(+Si) shell. Duals can and do sometimes look a lot like one another for whatever temporal manifestations take place.


The vid on him certainly did show some NFness.And on the other hand......K.G. in that video did show some tendancies really a lot similar to those of myself that got me thinkin......so this typing thing ain't exactly easy to do....kind of like playing poker...its all about percentages, baby!



I'm just trying to be helpfull.

keep it rollin',dude.

any suggestions on my typing questions,yet ?

[tereg]

I've been wanting to contribute to this thread for a long time, and I have some thoughts about what's been going on in here, wanted to throw out some old school names as well. But my thoughts will be kind of all over the place.

do you ever watch hockey?.....Paul Pierce seems to have the very same personality as Ray Ferraro.

I will reserve my judgment on this till a later date

Ray Ferraro (at least what I see of him when he's doing analysis) actually seems a bit more... hmm... like more to the point than Pierce to me.

Pierce reminds me more of like ... I was going to say Rasheed Wallace at first, but I think I'd have to think about that some more. Doesn't seem to quite fit. Dwayne Wade maybe? Bah, I'll think about it some more.

And now for some random speculations mostly without concrete typings. I will give more in-depth explanations if you feel I need to do that, but I'm just kind of throwing out some loose ideas here.

I definitely see similarities between Garnett and Webber.

Here's a name I haven't seen in this thread yet: Charles Barkley, who I think is ESE. Now if you look at kind of the trio of Barkley, Rodman and Magic, I think I'd have to say that Magic more resembles Barkley than Rodman imo.

I think Wilt Chamberlain is another good example of ESE.

Ray Allen -- I think in the same vein as someone like Dennis Scott, or Kenny Smith, someone like that. Chauney Billups maybe?

David Robinson/Dirk Nowitski seem similar to me -- not really sold on that though.

Steve Nash - I remember when he spoke out against the war in Iraq and being vocal in that and I remember the kind of sports talk discussion that kind of arose out of that situation. About athletes and political-type statements of things they feel very strongly about. I know this is a bit of a tangent but I think of athletes who either were or are very opinionated in matters like this -- people like Jim Brown (think of the contrast that kind of arose when Jim Brown criticized Tiger Woods for not being more vocal about certain issues), Arthur Ashe, Curt Schilling even to some extent. I'm not saying that Steve Nash is in that group of people, I don't think Steve Nash is the same type as these three in particular, but there does seem to be some sort of quality that he has about being unafraid to voice his opinion if asked of his opinion. I dunno, just something I was kind of rummaging about.

If you want to cross over into hockey from basketball and find similarities in players/coaches, I'd point to examples like

Mark Messier -- I'd probably say the closest basketball example I can think of to him might be ... hmm.. Kareem? Maybe Patrick Ewing?

Ok, just so you know, I'm always willing to talk sports, pretty much any sport you can think of. If you ever catch me on Stickam I would love to talk about sports themes as they relate to Socionics. I think there's a lot that can be extrapolated from sports and interpreted through a Socionics lens, and I've been looking for some people to discuss these things at length with.

Anyways, I'll give this more thought (as I have for the past several days). But that's what I've got so far.

[kensi]

I've been wanting to contribute to this thread for a long time, and I have some thoughts about what's been going on in here, wanted to throw out some old school names as well. But my thoughts will be kind of all over the place.

Ok, just so you know, I'm always willing to talk sports, pretty much any sport you can think of. If you ever catch me on Stickam I would love to talk about sports themes as they relate to Socionics. I think there's a lot that can be extrapolated from sports and interpreted through a Socionics lens, and I've been looking for some people to discuss these things at length with.

Anyways, I'll give this more thought (as I have for the past several days). But that's what I've got so far.

Good point about Paul Pierce and Ray Ferraro in the comparison (didn't think anybody here had a clue who he is)....i've somewhat wrestled a little bit with exactly what you said on these two..the point about the point....can't help though they seem soooo much similar..known a couple of guys with that demeanour too.......... Ithink Wade is a very notable comparison though, thanks.

Not sure about Barkeley...love his personality though...Irrational T is the only thing that i'm confident about (INTp excluded)...that leaves 3 choices.

i am very comfortable with Rodman as an ESFp. His amiable nature is quite noticeable.

Ray Allen....the man is a mystery as far as throwing a theory out there goes....i don't know where to start.

The Moose (Messier) looked a lot ESTp when he was younger...nowadays he acts very much INTp with all vibes i'm getting.


Do you do Football or Boxing too...wondering if you know of ENFps there.

[tereg]

Do you do Football or Boxing too...wondering if you know of ENFps there.

Hmm. Michael Strahan maybe? Ricky Williams I think is an ENFp.

Oh wait, did you mean like futbol football?

Hmm. I had considered someone like Wayne Rooney possibly, but I thought about it some more, I'm not completely sold on that. Michael Owen maybe? *shrugs* Seems plausible to me.

In boxing, lets see...

This one's a bit tough.

I was thinking something along the lines of George Foreman, but I think either SEE/ESE makes more sense, I think I'd lean more towards ESE. But then again, I think about the "transformation" that he went through image-wise from the late 70s to his comeback years in the mid 90s. I'm not sure.

Maybe someone like James Toney? Although he strikes me again as either ESE/SEE, I'd probably lean towards SEE for him.

[tereg]

Actually, now that I think about it, I think Wilt Chamberlain was more SEE imo.

[kensi]

Hmm. Michael Strahan maybe? Ricky Williams I think is an ENFp.

Oh wait, did you mean like futbol football?

Hmm. I had considered someone like Wayne Rooney possibly, but I thought about it some more, I'm not completely sold on that. Michael Owen maybe? *shrugs* Seems plausible to me.

In boxing, lets see...

This one's a bit tough.

I was thinking something along the lines of George Foreman, but I think either SEE/ESE makes more sense, I think I'd lean more towards ESE. But then again, I think about the "transformation" that he went through image-wise from the late 70s to his comeback years in the mid 90s. I'm not sure.

Maybe someone like James Toney? Although he strikes me again as either ESE/SEE, I'd probably lean towards SEE for him.

I think Ricky is an INFj.

George Foreman...now there's a character....the man undergone a 10 year transformation and returened to the ring as somebody completely different than what he was before......I think he is the epitimy of why VI doesn't work...as he changed a lot over the course of his career.

"Lights Out Toney" is ISTj....ding.ding. TiSe

[JuJu]

Charles Barkley is ESFj--good call. Another ESFj in the NBA, I believe, is Rasheed Wallace.

The Paul Pierce - Dwayne Wade comparison is a great one. IMO, they're both ISFps. (For both: Si>Se. Fe>Fi. Their behavior and mannerisms are comparable.)

ENFp, I still believe, is the correct typing for Kevin Garnett. It's not obvious, I agree--but after some time checking out the possibility that he's Si-ISTp, I'm pretty sure that he's Ne-ENFp... I'm glad that ppl have challenged me on it b/c it's helped me to learn a lot.

As to other sports ENFps: one that immediately comes to mind is Tom Brady of the NE Patriots, a Fi-ENFp... Ricky Williams is definitely Delta--haven't examined him closely enough to tell whether he's ENFp... I believe that Yao Ming might be ENFp.

I agree that Wilt Chamberlain is SEE... Anyone have any ideas about Larry Bird's type?

[kensi]

Charles Barkley is ESFj--good call. Another ESFj in the NBA,

That is a vey interesting theory, i'm excited about the prospects of that one....i havn't ever done an analysis on him but i though him to be xSTp. (irrational)

I'm glad you brough it up....this opens up some doors.

[jason_m]

Charles Barkley is ESFj--good call. Another ESFj in the NBA, I believe, is Rasheed Wallace.

According to Niednagel, Barkley is ESFP. However, Wallace is supposed to be an ESFJ. (I can't help but comment. How close you two often are still amazes me!). Nonetheless, after saying this, I would guess that ESFp is a better fit for Barkley. He has that Se characteristic of trying to look very macho or strong (of course, you could say the same thing about Wallace).

Ricky Williams is definitely Delta--haven't examined him closely enough to tell whether he's ENFp... I believe that Yao Ming might be ENFp.

Once again, you have typed Ming the same as Niednagel. However, he says that Ricky Williams is an ESTP. That I do not buy. Ricky Williams comes off as being far too soft-spoken and impractical, IMO, to be an ESTp.

I agree that Wilt Chamberlain is SEE... Anyone have any ideas about Larry Bird's type?

Niednagel says that Chamberlain is ESTP. As for Bird, he says ISTP. As for myself, I don't know enough about these athletes or enough about Socionics to say for sure. However, regardless of anyone's typing, it does make sense to me that Chamberlain would probably be Se-dominant. He is supposedly quite the party animal and sensation-oriented person. Am I using this correctly? In Socionics, is Se-dominance still related to this the way it would be in the MBTI or Jungian psychology, or does Se not have anything to do with being a sensation-seeker?

Jason

EDIT: I don't mean to focus on the dark side of life, but Niednagel actually said that most serial killers are ISTPs. From a Socionics perspective, that sounds crazy to me. Someone said on here that some variants of ESTps can be very cold and calculated. Also, having such weak Fi would put them into a position where it would be harder to identify with moral values. I would guess that most serial killers would be ESTp-Ti types. (As I said, sorry to bring up something so dark, but it does sound crazy to me that serial killers would be ISTps. However, I'm fairly new to Socionics.)

[tereg]

Charles Barkley is ESFj--good call. Another ESFj in the NBA, I believe, is Rasheed Wallace.

The Paul Pierce - Dwayne Wade comparison is a great one. IMO, they're both ISFps. (For both: Si>Se. Fe>Fi. Their behavior and mannerisms are comparable.)

ENFp, I still believe, is the correct typing for Kevin Garnett. It's not obvious, I agree--but after some time checking out the possibility that he's Si-ISTp, I'm pretty sure that he's Ne-ENFp... I'm glad that ppl have challenged me on it b/c it's helped me to learn a lot.

As to other sports ENFps: one that immediately comes to mind is Tom Brady of the NE Patriots, a Fi-ENFp... Ricky Williams is definitely Delta--haven't examined him closely enough to tell whether he's ENFp... I believe that Yao Ming might be ENFp.

I agree that Wilt Chamberlain is SEE... Anyone have any ideas about Larry Bird's type?

Yeah I see Larry Bird as ISTp, that seems to make the most sense to me.

I'm not so sure about Tom Brady as ENFp. That doesn't seem to fit in my mind for some reason. I see more in him than I would in maybe other ENFps. I mean, think about the comparison between Kevin Garnett and Tom Brady. That just... I dunno, it just doesn't seem to work. Tom Brady has more of an air of... basically supreme confidence and a very even-keeled demeanor in game situations. Compare that with Garnett who seems to feed more emotionally off of the crowd or the energy of the room. I just don't see them as being the same type.

Now Jonathan Papelbon -- there's someone that might be an ENFp.

I thought about this the other day, but I was thinking about some of the Red Sox types.

Terry Francona
Curt Schilling
Josh Beckett
Mike Lowell (maybe)
Coco Crisp

I think are all beta types.

I probably need to do a bit more thinking about Kevin Youkilis, but he strikes me (just first impressions really) as a beta.

Manny Ramirez - certainly an valuing quadra, if I had to make a guess, I'd say ESE possibly.

Btw, just for the record, I am not a Red Sox fan at all. That's probably the team I like the least out of all of them. But there are some guys on that team that I like, but most of them annoy the crap out of me.

Anyways

Yao, I'd have to think about that one a little more. Not entirely sure about his type.

Willis Reed I think is a beta type. I think I remember seeing something, maybe it was on the show "Black Magic", I seem to remember him talking about refusing to ignore racial comments from fans when he came into the NBA, since he was the kind of guy that wouldn't just stand idly by and take crap from someone. Anyone else remember this? I thought it was him that talked about that.

[kensi]

1According to Niednagel, Barkley is ESFP.


2same as Niednagel. However, he says that Ricky Williams is an ESTP. That I do not buy. Ricky Williams comes off as being far too soft-spoken and impractical, IMO, to be an ESTp.



3As for Bird, he says ISTP.


4I don't mean to focus on the dark side of life, but Niednagel actually said that most serial killers are ISTPs. From a Socionics perspective, that sounds crazy to me.

Niednagel does not correlate with Socionics...MBTI much more likely..Remenber the to include the J/P problem when you translate.

1. It's not out of the question.....but then God! there sure are a lot of subtypes...ones i still know little about...cause he doesn't fit the traditional ESFp billing of say someone like Magic Johnson.

2. I see Ricky as INFj and a delta......EStp is the very opposite energy he is fighting.

Keep in mind that Niednagel wants to justify his typings for Sporting success and has questionable motives in what he represents. His claim is to say that only half the types are good at sports and anyone who has success he will type them as being someone who fits thiose very types destined for success. I've noticed him on multiple occasions change types and force issues..not to say also..completely miss the point. His science has been refered to as hocus-pocus...though at times... yes, he does make some good typings and they do have some referential value. Bottom line...decent to average product and buyer beware.

3. That (ISTP) is an MBTI term for the usage of TiSe (external wiring)whereas ISTp in socionics is SiTe (internal wiring)...definitely not the same but there may be some overlap.

4. I don't have the statistics...there may be some truth to it but overall I doubt it.... but read #3 above to disect the issue.



Ken IMO

[kensi]

1.I'm not so sure about Tom Brady as ENFp. That doesn't seem to fit in my mind for some reason. I see more in him than I would in maybe other ENFps.


2.I mean, think about the comparison between Kevin Garnett and Tom Brady. That just... I dunno, it just doesn't seem to work.

3Tom Brady has more of an air of... basically supreme confidence and a very even-keeled demeanor in game situations. Compare that with Garnett who seems to feed more emotionally off of the crowd or the energy of the room. I just don't see them as being the same type.


4Manny Ramirez - certainly an valuing quadra, if I had to make a guess, I'd say ESE possibly.

1 I'm ok with Brady as an ENFp though i have to admit that for years i thought he was an ENFj...i see what ur sayin with the Se...its either a superego thing (which i think i exhibit some of as well)...or its an ENFj activation thing.

2. Yeah..they would definitely have to be different subtypes of ENFp if that's the case

3. I agree ....though i havn't studied him like JuJu......I wonder if he was a lot more firy in his T-Wolves days cause i think he was...i just think he may have burnt himself out a little and changed styles...what do you think?

4 What....I see Manny Ramirez as SEE -Fi subtype


Ken

IMO

[kensi]

[quote=tereg;380761]

I'm a fan....I read kobe was INTx, jordan was INFj, iverson is ESFp, dwayne ESTp or maybe I, ummm shaq...I dunno....like ESFp/j

LMAO LMAO ....these are all funny...they remind me of the types i used to throw out there when i first started doing this.

....keep 'em coming.....one can always use a good laugh...thats for sure.


lol...sometimes it just pays to go down to the old figurative Sports Bar around here....

[JuJu]

Now Jonathan Papelbon -- there's someone that might be an ENFp.

(Whoa, this is the longest post I've ever written)

Are you in New England too, tereg?

There are a couple of TV channels here--NESN and Comcast Sportsnet--that are all Boston sports all the time, so I end up seeing a lot of the guys that you named... Papelbon is the only one on the Red Sox I can comment on for sure... I believe that he's Se-valuing. ESXp... He's definitely goofy, but he's also got that Se 'alpha dog' attitude when he's not acting up... He does this weekly interview on CSN, sometimes with a Delta ENFp, (for those in New England: Greg Dickerson) that's usually kinda awkward, lol... He gets along much better with ENFj Gary Tanguay.

I'm gonna try to type Manny, haha.

To be honest, I'm not nearly as sure about Brady as ENFp I am about Garnett as ENFp... I could see Brady being SEE too, (albeit a very restrained one.) The reason that I'm inclined to believe ENFp is he doesn't have that Se 'alpha dog' thing that I was talking about with Papelbon... I'm pretty sure that he's Fi>Fe. There's a good interview with him on youtube with Ed Bradley of 60 Minutes... Again, I'm not sure of his type, but ENFp is my working premise. EXFp is correct.

Larry Bird is a problematic typing: superficially, he's almost a prototypical ISTp--his looks, mannerisms, speech--everything about him. (His favorite hobby is "mowing the lawn," lol.) However, if you ever hear any stories about him, or read his books, or watch interviews where he gets in-depth--his Se is extremely strong... It makes me wonder whether he's actually ISTj (in Socionics, anyway... In MBTI, I'd assume ISTP.) In other words, Bird's could be a case similar to Jordan's, where he's actually Beta, even though he projects, superficially, as Delta.

According to Niednagel, Barkley is ESFP. However, Wallace is supposed to be an ESFJ. (I can't help but comment. How close you two often are still amazes me!). Nonetheless, after saying this, I would guess that ESFp is a better fit for Barkley. He has that Se characteristic of trying to look very macho or strong (of course, you could say the same thing about Wallace).

Hey Jason To be honest, Barkley as SEE was my first guess... The more that I watched him, however, (they repeated the 2002 NBA Draft special on NBA TV--I formed my opinion this morning based on that, haha,) I believed Fe>Fi... I'm not 100% sure of his type. Regardless, his TV persona (his real personality?) really de-emphasizes Fi--or at least it did this morning... He reminds me somewhat of R. Wallace.

Once again, you have typed Ming the same as Niednagel. However, he says that Ricky Williams is an ESTP. That I do not buy. Ricky Williams comes off as being far too soft-spoken and impractical, IMO, to be an ESTp.

Yeah, I agree with you--there's no way that Ricky Williams is ESTp. No way... Kensi's typing of him is my working premise too.

Niednagel says that Chamberlain is ESTP. As for Bird, he says ISTP. As for myself, I don't know enough about these athletes or enough about Socionics to say for sure. However, regardless of anyone's typing, it does make sense to me that Chamberlain would probably be Se-dominant. He is supposedly quite the party animal and sensation-oriented person. Am I using this correctly? In Socionics, is Se-dominance still related to this the way it would be in the MBTI or Jungian psychology, or does Se not have anything to do with being a sensation-seeker?

Wilt as ESTp is very plausible... It makes sense actually--maybe that's why he got along so well with Bill Russell, i.e. an Alpha extrovert... To be honest, I need to research both Russell and Wilt before I can become confident of my typings of them... For better or worse, it takes me at least two or three days and about ten interviews before I can even say I've got a half-way decent picture...

Wilt's most noticeable attribute is Se dominance, e.g. his boasting and machismo and aggressiveness, (remember I'm a ENFp so all of that stuff comes across as pretty thick to me, haha.)

EDIT: I don't mean to focus on the dark side of life, but Niednagel actually said that most serial killers are ISTPs. From a Socionics perspective, that sounds crazy to me. Someone said on here that some variants of ESTps can be very cold and calculated. Also, having such weak Fi would put them into a position where it would be harder to identify with moral values. I would guess that most serial killers would be ESTp-Ti types. (As I said, sorry to bring up something so dark, but it does sound crazy to me that serial killers would be ISTps. However, I'm fairly new to Socionics.)

I've watched a few crime/prison shows (those ones on MSNBC) and there did seem to be a preponderance of XSTps on them... There was a thread in Delta awhile back that ISTPunk, I believe, started, about young ISTps who committed school shootings... Quite a few of the school shooters did seem to be angst-ridden ISTps.

I agree with your premise about ESTps (beta STs in general maybe, you might consider,) but to be honest, I can think of any examples to illustrate it... Maybe someone who knows more about it can.

To be honest, there might be something to what Niednagel's saying... This might sound weird, but I've noticed that some male ISTps go through a very dark phase between 15-25... They can appear like disaffected, wounded Betas, but they're actually ISTps... There are a bunch of them here where I live, and they're the type of ppl that ISTpunk was pointing out... Definitely goes against the ISTp stereotype--and it's hard to type em.

FWIW, the only serial killer that I can type with any certainty is Charles Manson. ENFj.

[kensi]

In other words, Bird's could be a case similar to Jordan's, where he's actually Beta, even though he projects, superficially, as Delta.


.

Jordan is ISTj in my system...He has an assasin mentality (that's not to say he doesn't have a likeable side cause he does)....this assasin mentality was present when he went out of his way to try to rattle Vince Carter (maybe ENTP)(Carter's Raptor days i think) when Carter was at an all-time high doin all sorts of new dunks....Jordan said "Kobe and those guys should'nt pay attention to him...he don't play no defence" etc.etc....he really started to get under V.C.'s skin and ISTjs can be good at that..(i don't know if V.C was ever the same after that)...getting under your skin.

Hey...btw...did anybody catch Shaq's antics on Kobe over the last couple of days...dammit...forgot to tune into Sporscentre.