The people who talk about socionics the best might be the people who know nothing about socionics !
The people who talk about socionics the best might be the people who know nothing about socionics !
Although DCNH allows for a certain evolution i.e the subtype might change in the course of a lifetime, those changes are rare and happen gradually after significant "life-changing" transitional events like for instance : midlife crisis (most likely period of subtype evolution), menopause, recovering after a tragedy (for instance an accident leading to amputation), a long period in prison or as a the consequence of resilience etc..
We must not forget that subtype evolution is not a recurring phenomenon that happen often (this is socionics not Jungian psychology !). In fact a subtype change might happen once or twice in a lifetime (average lifespan worldwide = 72 years). So people don't change subtype like they change their hairstyle, subtype evolution is not insignificant and has a major impact on the subject's mindset.
Last edited by godslave; 09-02-2023 at 01:48 AM.
So you're back to the IEE type finally?Originally Posted by kuno
I'm an EVLF IEE living a romance with a FLVE which I suspect might be ISTP (that would make us dual types in both systems). I think EVLF fits IEE perfectly.
About receptiveness to Si, I used to hate it before my dualization process, so I can guarantee you your receptiveness depends on your level of dualization in this regard.
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Yeah, I've been thinking about it and IEE is the only Sociotype that logically fits me. I am very sure at this point about being EVLF, because I disregarded Socionics for a while and only focused on Psychosophy...
Well, yesterday I logged back onto this website to post a "Type me" video where I was completely honest about myself (unlike my first video), but after rewatching the video I posted and looking at the ITRs in my life (I took suggestions from @Sol, so kudos to him!), I realized that I mostly have the best relationships with Delta types, and plus, my LSE boyfriend complements me in so many ways. And everything I was talking about in the video evidently pointed to weaker Si and Te, as well as high Ne and high Fe/Fi, and it just came together suddenly that I'm probably IEE!!!
It's just embarrassing because I should have just looked at the ITRs in my life and listened to my own judgment, as well as the things my loved ones say about me, but I have such trouble forming my own logical conclusions that I couldn't do it, and I kept frenetically jumping around between SEI, IEI, and IEE. But I always admired SEIs and SLIs so much, I wanted to be SEI, so I sorta convinced myself that I was?? And I apparently convinced a lot of people that I was, which makes me feel awful because I feel like I was lying about myself. @Bethanyclaire and a few others saw right through my facade, it seems, because they typed me as IEE consistently, but I didn't listen enough. Also, most tests type me as Delta NF, although the Aimtoknow test is usually torn between SEI or EII.
And as you say, EVLF fits IEE perfectly. I can't see a 4F type correlating with SEI very well at all.
Congrats on finding your dual type, by the way!Is it nice??
Last edited by kuno; 09-02-2023 at 02:01 AM.
Thank you. Is it nice? It's basically like living an alternate reality with someone else. Plus it's least effort on my part for maximum returns. And both exciting and comfortable. She appreciates the most basic things imaginable that I do, and I simply love everything about her.Congrats on finding your dual type, by the way!
Some things about her: she's competed internationally in swimming, she has a beautiful voice and sings pretty well, she's a great cook, loves to play soccer, we have matching tastes in music and arts, plus we're watching the same animes, she's logical but she's able to be vulnerable about her feelings with me, not cold at all, she's intelligent and beautiful. I felt kinda off cause she knows how to drive and I can't lmao but these stereotypes are bullshit
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Man, that sounds beautiful. She sounds amazing! I feel like strong Si + Te always makes for a highly efficient and capable individual, which I love. It’s amazing that she has so many talents and skills! My LSE boyfriend is also a person of many useful skills.
Don’t worry, I can’t drive either. My boyfriend and my dad always drive me around lol (as well as Grecia, my LSE friend). I have a decent job near my house thankfully, so I still don’t have to worry too much about that yet…
Basically hell
It’s ok- still have not learnt what ne is (me). I like tritype..269,369,469 is a cute tritype to me and therefore SEI-ish maybe. I would try to find anything @Rebelondeck said about IEE. Not that you need to, you are a cool dude. Cool IEEs are cool, just watch out for any waifs falling apart in front of you without your realisation. IEIs are rarely that spesh, SEIs..I’ve met a few.. but some are mad..
It's just embarrassing because I should have just looked at the ITRs in my life and listened to my own judgment, as well as the things my loved ones say about me, but I have such trouble forming my own logical conclusions that I couldn't do it, and I kept frenetically jumping around between SEI, IEI, and IEE. But I always admired SEIs and SLIs so much, I wanted to be SEI, so I sorta convinced myself that I was?? And I apparently convinced a lot of people that I was, which makes me feel awful because I feel like I was lying about myself. @Bethanyclaire and a few others saw right through my facade, it seems, because they typed me as IEE consistently, but I didn't listen enough. Also, most tests type me as Delta NF, although the Aimtoknow test is usually torn between SEI or EII.
And as you say, EVLF fits IEE perfectly. I can't see a 4F type correlating with SEI very well at all.
Congrats on finding your dual type, by the way!
https://www.reddit.com/r/istp/commen...mment/ddka9g3/
LSI Poetry in link
Black & white is a shallow divide, division is the color that multiplies
If you can wash your brain, your brain isn't a wash, it is awash
To experience is simple, to explain is divine
Hearts of stone are a dead giveaway: no movement
Gulenko’s online Socionics test always types me ILI. Me?? ILI?????
I can't help but think that Socionists tend to be hella biased against Se-ego types. I swear, you can read it in the ways that they characterize Se and Se-ego types. I remember taking AIM's shortened Talanov test and coming across a question saying, "Let the will to power grow and triumph! Let all the weak and ugly die!" and I'm supposed to answer if I agree with the statement or not. Like, who the hell is going to be like, "Yeah, totally. I hate weak and ugly people"?!?!
I have the most crackhead 3L moments
Se is about perception of objective physical traits. It's the main.
Augustinavichiute wrote hypotheses and some of them were wrong. Other people added own mistakes to her. To say Se as about "will" in general is among her mistakes. Correct ideas exist too.
> Let all the weak and ugly die
Needs to say that to be "weak and ugly" is possibly in any of 4 functions. To see anything below social norms inspires a higher wish to fix or remove that, as that means higher harm to people.
Se style is to remove physically, an example of what is to kill. Se predisposes to physical violence. This does not mean that Se methods are more harmful, but there is a basis for "bad image". For any of functions and their e/i variants exists dark side, which becomes more noticable when happens going away from equal balance of functions and when functions reduce the strenght below social average.
I think I get what you mean, but I feel like the wording used can sometimes be so extreme that anybody who has any semblance of morality or human decency would look at some of the questions/descriptions that pertain to Se and think that it doesn’t suit them. It makes me wonder if perhaps some Se-valuing types don’t view themselves as Se-valuing because of how some Socionists’ descriptions of Se are worded rather extremely and perhaps somewhat disrespectfully.
It reminds me of how Afanasyev’s description of the Psychosophic type FEVL is extremely harsh and brutal-sounding, when in reality I’m sure lots of FEVL-type people are not quite as terrifying as his descriptions sound. In other words. I feel like you have to look past some of the bias these writers may have held when writing descriptions of certain types they personally may not have favored.
It sounds so strange to see this thread in General Socionics Discussion forum , no more in Anything goes forum
Souls know their way back home
Yeah, me too. Typing by behavior is bullshitGulenko’s online Socionics test always types me ILI. Me?? ILI?????
Edit: most of the questions I feel like there's no right answer, so I go to the least wrong lmao
Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!
Most noobs may never notice the work of IR theory due to bad typing skills, lack of objective thinking and trusting to baseless hypotheses. These problems sometimes are evident on changes by them of long-time assured opinions about own type.
Having such conditions, some of them have the mind speculative and fantasy enough to trust own evaluation that IR theory is incorrect. And to show other lack of objective reason.
@Northstar
Behavior is caused by the patterns of thinking of an individual. Behavior is a part of what shapes socionics and mbti, but socionics also defines types by philosophies, belief systems, etc.
Though behavior issues can be universal, but certain behavioral issues are likely, if not purely to manifest in certain types of people due to their certain patterns of thinking that actually encourage certain behaviors more than others.
At most, behavior will get someone down by 2 letters, it's easier to tell a EXTX type from a IXFX type for example.
I suspect that I don't have well developed enough type images (Archetypical) to identify easily every types even if I know what type of person I'm dealing with in the moment if that makes sense. I don't trust my ability to sociotype people no matter how close they are to me. However I trust my instincts to capture their essence. Of course understanding the essence of an individual is a case by case endeavor.
Like anyone, I want my facts/information to be right. I feel like it's a great responsibility to sociotype someone. To me sociotyping is like differential diagnosis. What if you messed up a medical diagnosis ? I mean, to some people this is not a joke, this is serious stuff ! Personally I have a "why so serious" type of attitude towards life in general but I like to do things right, I mean correctly. We are talking about psychological profiles here, we expect a certain predictability in terms of behaviors and thinking patterns (even for unpredictable types !).
In nature there is an easy way to distinguish the class of certain types of insects of the same species like bees or ants, it's, roughly speaking, a physical distinction. In typology the physical aspect is only peripheral and doesn't always align with the TIM because of the "x factor". I would also mention that I've noticed in myself a great resistance to make generalities when it comes to human beings. I think it's a major bias that might (maybe unconsciously) obscure my perception of type images. To me, understanding how a person ticks goes way beyond his or her hypothetical sociotype. The Temperament of a person is something certain kind of people get with just a few seconds of real life social interaction. To dissect their psyche requires a lot more time. Typology is no Psychology, Sociotypes are just templates, a prophylactic tool that is useful in terms therapeutic orientation and choices.
Also, I always keep is mind that in social media (and forums have of course a sociological aspect), and particularly in typology forums, it is easy to be put in a box and be perceived as a "persona non grata" by one type in particular namely the conflictor type and by some "non adjacent" quadra types in general without even knowing a thing about the person but his or her type . Thinking this way is utterly stupid imho. Indeed, ITR can potentially be misused as a discriminating device if TIMs (or like Jung calls them, Psychological types) are confused with individuals . Individuals may not be (born) tabula rasa but sociotypes/TIMs definitely are !
When you think about it and assuming that sociotypes are evenly distributed (the spreading remains unknown though) worldwide (I highly doubt it but let's pretend it's true) 1/16 of the population = 8 billions/16 = 500 millions ! It means that as I'm writing this there are 500 millions of each TIM on earth. Talking about a generality ! I don't know sh.. about statistics but I would be very curious to know the world population average evolution before it hit the one billion milestone in 1804 (according to the UN numbers). I suppose to each medicine breakthrough like for instance Alexander Fleming's discovery of penicillin in 1928 (Btw, as I was fact checking my stuff writing this, I discovered that the therapeutic usage of mounds is very ancient !), there is an update in terms of world population because even though technological breakthroughs most of the time benefit first to well developed countries, they have nonetheless a relative effect on the world population.
Now, thank God Jung teaches us that primitive people don't have opportunities to differentiate their functions. Indeed, the stability of an environment and the indigenous harmonious adaptation to it are by definition not auspicious to change but rather to some form of symbiosis. So what about all that talk, about types distribution, world population ?
Sorry for the rambling !
Lol, do you not like it?
@nifl
It's just strange
Souls know their way back home
Life is strange; life mirrors the16types.info.
There is no direct connection between Se and will, but Se's association with will can be by negative means: because Ne is associated with an understanding of the (imagined) possible and unseen aspects of objects, with an (imagined) multiplicity of aspects in a given situation. When it's harder to imagine how a situation could be understood beyond the obvious (for SF and ST, differing) it results in more crude behaviour, including the stubborn implementation of a non-optimal course of action.
You're behaving mysteriously; this case requires an expert in the field.
@Alive
Last edited by nifl; 09-08-2023 at 10:02 AM.
Yes the professional IEI identifier will probably note that you're an IEI since you're playing the role of two people on a forum.. not that it says anything since everyone is an IEI but anyway since you brought it up.
Dunno what to write here. I think sol's obsession with "logic" and how "illogical" everyone is comes across as him being an insecure ethical type. He's probably still masturbating to that one EII girl he had a chance with years ago.
Se is the perception of objective, concrete reality to me. It does not necessarily lead to high willpower, but these types do appreciate competition, struggle, achiving goals and care a lot about status, credentials, some objective mark of competency. Seems clear to me that @Northstar values that.
I don't think that Ne is all that imaginative, as it is an extroverted element, so focused on the external world. It's a very vague statue of mind with which you can look at two opposing sides and see that both are equally valid. With Ne, you don't really hold all that many strong convictions. "I see both sides of the issue" is a common sentence you will hear from Ne base
Last edited by Ikite iru; 09-08-2023 at 11:29 AM.
my ideas about socionics:
https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/
this is a VI thread with IEI examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)
and this is a thread with EIE examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples
It's a poor defence against the criticism of your type (which I don't have a strong opinion on, by the way, as I haven't seen a video with you) to suggest that Sol's preferred methods & delineation of typological contents are so outlandish that a person who finds those reasonable for use must be the same person.
Your penchant for suspecting intrigue evokes my thoughts to either ethical types (who, in logical discussion, tend to draw discussion to the qualities of people rather than counter-arguments) or a wary non-valued Ne type. SLI is usually more naive there.
Just to make it clear one more time; I give zero fucks about your "criticism of my type", it just doesn't matter to me what you think.It's a poor defence against the criticism of your type (which I don't have a strong opinion on, by the way, as I haven't seen a video with you) to suggest that Sol's preferred methods & delineation of typological contents are so outlandish that a person who finds those reasonable for use must be the same person.
Your penchant for suspecting intrigue evokes my thoughts to either ethical types (who, in logical discussion, tend to draw discussion to the qualities of people rather than counter-arguments) or a wary non-valued Ne type. SLI is usually more naive there.
You're tagging me out of nowhere with your usual drivel which is exactly the same with both accounts, just using a better translator with this sock puppet than your main. I don't know why you find it necessary but I guess that's "something ethical types enjoy".
An example of how speculative Ti can be.
That typology practitioneer has type LSI/ISTJ and thinks as own type ESE. Ti is her leading function, so the problem is the most among types. Plus I suspect at her additional mind issues which make type's problems harder.
The difference between thought (ESE) and real (LSI) type is huge. As theory is known good by her and contradictions of own behavior are well noticed during typology practice then... No, to suppose that she mistakes in own type would be objective approach. In common, significant theory contradictions are overcame (ignored) by usage of additional typology heresies to fit which is somehow supposed as more meaningful (Reinin, subtypes etc) than to fit more essencial basics. Sometimes to explain strong contradictions are used non-types reasons inappropriately, but this happens more rarely.
In her speculative Ti mind, to solve the seen contradiction she just changes the description of ESE traits made by core theory(!) so that ESE description fited to _her own behavior_.
For example, she claims ESE has no interest to improve the mood (as by jokes) in peoples group where he presents for a resting (while base F and F-E are predisposed to influence on emotions of people, including by jokes especially common for Fe).
Then she assignes to ESE introverted traits - as to feel comfortably being alone, to feel in such situation as alike "being in the center of the world" - hence to have no interest to seek for communications with people. Says that ESE being in group have no interest to get the attention of other people and hence low interest to interact with them (while extravertion supposes the attention on external world, seeking for impressions from, influencing and interactions there, including interactions with other people what needs having their attention).
Then she rejects that significant (by theory is main) part of ESE's caring about other people is direct influencing on their emotions. Says ESE caring happens totally in physical caring.
In short: she changed the description of ESE to I and T side, - to traits of her behavior, despite that was against very basics of typology theory.
Speculative approach of Ti is redundant preference to keep existing opinion by too unusual linking of facts (and partial ignoring them, as she does with dichotomies theory).
-
If LSI thinks IR theory is wrong this may be kept despite anything else is known (as changed opinions about own type, the quantity of which can be even >2, what evidently would explain why IR could not be noticed before and mb still). Such logical inadequacy may hide blocked emotions, which from unconscious state distort the work of strong functions. For example, LSI could to have bad experience of usage IR theory, due to wrongly supposed types or different reasons which may oppose for relations to go well. To prevent negative situation to happen again - is chosen negativism to IR theory. When such LSI notices info which associates with his bad experience of relations he with higher chance will manifest the said negativism and inadequacy of neurotic nature.
Irrespective of Belle's type whatever it may be, selling your bathwater does not make you Te polr because it's useless. There are LSIs out there with unexplained respect for artifacts in the past; they're antique store owners that sell stacks of vhs that serve no purpose; defunct vinyl record players whose job is to stand, abandoned, on a corner. People pay money for the emotion they represent. LSIs sell an idea and so did Belle.
Sicuramente cercherai il significato di questo.
Te is heavily associated with simple rote memorization from my observation. It does not theorize or create an hypothesis, it simply looks at excisting, external (extroverted) and technological information and memorizes it. It does not reflect why it learns something (this is Ti). It's very good at organizing its environment in a pragmatic way and is therefore unlikely to go into debt. Very good at handling money. America's current values aren't based on Te, but on Te PolR.
Last edited by Ikite iru; 09-12-2023 at 05:53 PM.
my ideas about socionics:
https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/
this is a VI thread with IEI examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)
and this is a thread with EIE examples
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples
People which notice that a theory points on types of them and/or some others which they do not wish to have tend to fall into heretical hypotheses and theory nonsense. Higher predisposition to such mind's logics distortion have F types, as have the accentuation to set the reality below their emotions.
Other hint for such situations is redundant emotional reactions, which help them to suppress own logical criticism.
@godslave
@Sol what's your argument for me as F?
@Northstar
To expand your understanding of Ne possibilities.
The same account can be used by several people. So anything done through some account (including posting photo/video) would not mean that other done (as other messages) is by the same human.
Mistakes in weak functions is common situation. They may arise by neurotic reasons, when problems in one function distort and make lesser reasonable activity of other function. For example, when you feel bad emotions (especially when it's weak function) this may arise feeling of redundant dissatisfaction in other functions, especially in 2nd weak. Wrong evaluation of the chance that different accounts are used by the same human I relate to wrong general image (N) of human personality who uses those accounts, - you get wrong fantasies about people, in simple. As having seems base T, you change opinions about own type once per a year this points on feeling low satisfaction by the life conditions during long time, - to symptom of significant neurotisation. Being in such state, neurotic cognitive distortions should happen easier. So in your case negative emotions may especially arise wrong N fantasies about people.
@nifl
To distinguish details in talking style of different people is important skill for Jung types identification. It's useful to do not reduce by visual data the motivation to understand the real situation among those who suspects that several nicknames are used _intensively and for long_ by one human.
Besides those suspicions are funny to watch. And show problems of some types.
So in essence you're saying that someone else posted the danish video from your account and it isn't that you slipped up and accidentally posted the danish video with Sol instead of nifl account? On most forums account sharing is not allowed, but I'm not a rulesmonger and don't care about that. It's just a funny explanation, and even funnier that you felt the need to write this kind of creative explanation.
The rest is just personal attacks as a emotional defense that I'm disregarding.
it's probably just a form of defence against an opinion about his type that he doesn't like; since I use (on paper) the same (non-verbal, intertypal) approach as you, he's more likely to encounter a similar unwanted opinion about him with me, hence the explanation that we must be the same person to delegitimise the approach.
I was finally convinced about Socionics (broadly speaking) by seeing that the intertypes fit well to SLI and only SLI. The chance that the overlap between my type (which I at that point understood was xLI, at least) and then the independently analysed intertypes was just a coincidence is very low. E.g. generally liking ILE, but disliking SLE - it should be the opposite for ILI. And those intertypes could only broadly work as they do if the type-theory was broadly correct.
I read his thoughts (he is, as you know, prolific on typology forums) as I considered my type. They were useful and consequently nothing is significantly wrong with the argumentation.
It's a shame, because Socionics is useful if you understand your own type. If you really are LSI as Sol believes, it can be a factor that you may not prefer the way LSE behaves (''mentally disturbed'' etc.). With opposite valued functions, considering the advice of someone may be (sometimes erroneously) perceived as unimportant (primarily from conflictors/superegos).It's funny, both of you guys can type me whatever you want and it simply doesn't matter to me at all.
You don't understand, it's not that you agree with him, it's that you're basically the same person when it comes to writing style. You don't copy someone's writing style, but it's very very hard to hide when it's the same person acting with sock puppets. Seen it many times before on different (non-typology, it's not my main interest by far) forums.
Your attempt to obfuscate by grammar quality doesn't hide the basic skeleton of your writing.
Can be among factors.
Also, having my opposing to his 2 last opinions about own type, to see someone who higher than average agrees with me about typology may annoy, what inspires conspiracy idea to reduce this by "there is no other one". Plus, some similarity in talking of mirror IR.
With nonverbal for his type the situation was not easy. Initially he thought for him LSI/ISTJ, I was close to this but after 1st video got doubts in T (he also has some higher than average result in EmotionalQ test). After 2nd video I've decided LSI as most possible. He got Gulenko's ESTP and accepted it, while I insisted on ISTJ as more possible. Now he thinks ISTP/SLI, while I stay on LSI still.
I may mistake with some chance. But ESTP and ISTP find as low possible, anyway. His talking style reminds J, as example. In case of T, LSI fits the most.
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