sx/sp

[Neokortex]

Lol, you'd have to be Buddha or something to be able to ignore your first instinct.


Again:

~Objectification of the romantic other or close friendTo me, the reason that terms like 'sex object' and 'object of desire' have arisen in our language is significantly due to an intrinsic aspect of sexuality and the sx instinct, in general. There's a hunter/prey element in sx -- picture the way a tiger transfixes visually on its prey in the distance. Deadly serious... and the only thing in the world, right now, is *that* object.
So, sx as a psychological style condenses (and simultaneously inwardly exponentiates) the 'other' into a potent localized fetishized source/embodiment of some kind of craved energy that has a charged 'personal signature' that is claimed (as 'mine') by way of its having fallen into the hunter's transfixed line-of-sight. The Other, like the victim of a serial killer, is partly just a pawn in the sx-first's own potent self-styled self-hypnosis. See how this is really a kind of profound *non*-intimacy? ... as opposed to sx being the "intimacy" instinct?
Note also the element of the hunter/prey metaphor that has to do with assimilating, 'taking in' the other, merging with, 'You are what you eat'. And, continuing the sex/hunter metaphor, the energetic downturn after eating a large meal ('devouring the other') is similar to post-orgasm energy deflation.

Haha, I have actually just done this today DD The dead-serious stare D But where did you get this from? Ofc being in Predator mode rules out one way of intimacy... however, it opens up way for others. I'm intending to forward this to the writer of the quoted piece: if we mean to stick with academic vernacular, then it's precisely because of bypassing (Lacan's) symbolic order, (the social-cultural mindset) that allows for prescribed norms to predetermine the rapport and perception of the other, that leaves both the "hunter" and the "prey" outside of the normative subject status. The adequate type of intimacy that is valued by cultural stereotype is that of the Enneagram 2. The emotional rapport which never objectifies. However, Esther Perel thinks different: it's rather being in tune with oneself is that which leads to healthy eroticism that which is able to lead to rediscover the other, to revitalize relationships on the brink of fizzling out.
https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_per...m_relationship

[maniac]

Haha, I have actually just done this today DD The dead-serious stare D But where did you get this from? Ofc being in Predator mode rules out one way of intimacy... however, it opens up way for others. I'm intending to forward this to the writer of the quoted piece: if we mean to stick with academic vernacular, then it's precisely because of bypassing (Lacan's) symbolic order, (the social-cultural mindset) that allows for prescribed norms to predetermine the rapport and perception of the other, that leaves both the "hunter" and the "prey" outside of the normative subject status. The adequate type of intimacy that is valued by cultural stereotype is that of the Enneagram 2. The emotional rapport which never objectifies. However, Esther Perel thinks different: it's rather being in tune with oneself is that which leads to healthy eroticism that which is able to lead to rediscover the other, to revitalize relationships on the brink of fizzling out.
https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_per...m_relationship

It's from an enneagram group on fb. The problem is it has made me stuck in relationships that were obviously not good and I knew I didn't like all of my partners qualities, it was actually really hard to come up with something when someone asked "Why do you love him?" because I thought that was such a dumb question. I love him because I'm addicted to him and that's what love is, right? This is what they mean with sx not being intimate, its an illusion. It works when two partners actually like eachothers qualities and souls He was sp/so so um a bad match for me and thats partly why i felt like what he gave me wasnt enough. But i had feelings so of course Im going to stay. I live for those feelings

[Olimpia]

[Olimpia]

Esther Perel belongs to the Sx/So thread, btw.

[silke]

"wanderer" sx/sp - Megan Phelps-Roper 'I grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church. Here's why I left'

[Stellafera]

I tend to mentally envision 5s as Sx-last so this is a nice refresher

Sx/Sp Type 5 Disintegrating to 7



If I can
If I can feel your
VIBRATIONS
Then I can
Then I can finally be
COMPLETION

[niffer]

I don't even care what we ever do, Girl
Take you on a boat over to Bermuda
Girl, this is simple
Don't think about it, don't think about it
Girl lets get it, vertigo
Flying over seas, and we feeling freak in the 'Mile High Club'
While we getting high, right over Dubai
Tell me where you wan' go
We ain't do nothing like all day
But fuck it, have fun in the sun
This is that, this is that real
Ain't no one hit it like that, "how you feel?"
I waited for you, now it seems like you always in the mood
But I can't complain, now you want airtime, so snakes on a plane
Got bottles to drink, something to burn
It's easy when you losing track what you worth

By the way she talking, I just might hit the alter
Cause of the way she acting, I just might want to show her
That I'm trying to hold it down when the whole trip is over
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Tell me do you feel it?
Fuck around - Maybe I - Later on - Give it to you
Fuck around - Maybe I - Later on - Give it to you
Fuck around - Maybe I - Later on - Give it to you

Give you everything you deserve
Everybody like, "ooh, I wanna kick it with her"
We can play all those videos where we travel
I've been stuck in your deep end now need me a pedal
You know it's fine by me, fine by me
I got a dime by me, dime by me
Since you ride by me where I go
Not anyone like this cause you know
You know I run the city— Since you running with me, they gon' know your name
And you know that your perfect— Any given moment let me know your frame

By the way she talking, I just might hit the alter
Cause of the way she acting, I just might want to show her
That I'm trying to hold it down when the whole trip is over
Oh yeah, oh yeah. Tell me do you?
Fuck around - Maybe I - Later on - Give it to you

[niffer]

Sex without the inner soul and passion and the drive to merge and connect would not be the sx instinct.

[niffer]

[Olimpia]

[silke]

the "wanderer/mystifier" sx/sp dating lyfe

[Neokortex]

No religiosity endorsed...

[lynn]

sx/sp seducer

[Chae]

[Aylen]

Well, put simply: there's version A: that you're Sx/Sp in a thread where nobody else is and option B: you're not Sx/Sp in a forum where everybody else is. Now the reason I'd opt for A is that cooperation and teamwork is a large part of how humans copycat and pass on culture, share responsibility, maintain systems of infrastructure. Without "being social" fandom would not exist. So if Sx/Sps were to be defined as staunch individualists, then why fandom of the same frame of reference, of the same (lower class) cultural register? It inevitably gets to the point where the spectacle falls apart. In my experience, when you're with an Sx first, it just feels right. You don't get offended on things social types do. Ofc, I'm not saying there aren't all kinds of versions. But for the most part, the patterns here show lust, gluttony 7w8, 8w7, 8w9, 9w8 in its most visceral. And 8 (assertiveness, agression, bravery) is actually really easy to be mistaken for Sx.

In reality it is neither A or B though.

I agree other things can be mistaken for sx instinct though. I only read some posts on this thread so I am not aware of all the social dynamics or whatever.

[Aylen]

So each center has got it's own stacking just like the tritype? This could explain the intra-stacking differences (why there's variance between people of the same alleged stacking).

What I noticed were Oceanmoonshine's descriptions on PerC. That got me going. Then I realized that I have my on & off moments. Some things trigger my Sx. Other things trigger my So. And more importantly: the way your "instincts" work is the basically the result of the dynamics of your tritype. If one social strategy doesn't work out, logically, one turns to the intimate/self-pres sphere and vice versa. Or if you want to think big, the still "uncivilized," nomad groups of people compared to the sedentary nations (e.g. Romi vs. Spaniards) have similar oppositions.

Oceanmoonshine's information sparked a similar idea for me. I think it makes sense but I didn't think in terms of stackings for each center.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1136441


Edit:

I was reminded of this article today before coming into this thread and remembered I had referenced it before.

The self-preserving instinct is associated with vigilance, protectiveness and aggression; in one way or another you have to fight to stay alive, and you must destroy in order to eat.


The social instinct corresponds to the herd instinct in animals; it involves the sense of belonging to a group, and a preoccupation with your interactions with and place within the group, the pecking order.


The sexual instinct strives towards syntony with the world, to be in tune and vibrate with it; you have to cover a lot of space, emit the strongest and pick up the subtlest signals when searching for the most or best of mates.


The Freudian stages of development are closely related concepts: the oral stage is equivalent to the self-preserving, the anal to the social, and the genital to the sexual instinct. In the first, the primary concerns revolve around nourishment, safety, the maintenance of the homeostasis. In the second, the issues are defined by that first attempt at civilization, toilet training, with its attendant notions of pride and shame, giving and retentiveness. In the third, the most private body parts, and the most intimate and intense experiences are involved.
The self-preserving instinct represents the lowest and the sexual the highest energy level. However, neither this ranking nor any other differentiation of the ITs constitutes a value judgement, just as the ennea types are all equal to one another. Early on, I detected a tendency in many to classify themselves as the sexual IT, as if a certain desirability was attached to it. It may help to be reminded that your dominating instinct is the one which is the most impaired.


Self-preserving (SP):
• I am my body
• Heaviness
• Anxiety all the way to hysterical visions of annihilation; cold panic (if I move, something awful is going to happen; think of a Hitchcock movie)
• Paranoid streak; blaming and accusing others for damaging/endangering/ exploiting self
• Aggressive/defensive
• Money
• Nourishment
• Health; hypochondria
• Logistics
• Generous at feeding others, helping others out in SP crises
• The people who shop only in health food stores, filter the water, install triple locks and security system, refuse vaccination
• Excessively cautious or self-destructive, even suicidal


Social (SO):
• Can be the most decent yet often fake, manipulative, or subtly to grossly antisocial (essence present or left out when relating)
• Prestige, popularity, fame
• Superiority/inferiority problems (forgetting that we’re all equal in our essential functioning)
• Delusions of grandeur or of outcast
• Involved in causes
• Clubs, parties, groups
• The scene, the beautiful people, chic, fashionable, what’s in
• Going with or against the flow
• Socialite/philanthropist/misanthrope
• Political or religious crime (terrorists, anarchists)
• Confusion of boundaries between “you” and “me,” “yours” and “mine” (i.e. using one’s home as a public place, picking from another’s plate as it were one’s own)


Sexual (SX):
• Vibrating out there, looking for a mate; peacock displaying his feathers, deer locking antlers
• Susceptibility to states of intoxication, tripping
• Schizoid disposition (split between affect and intellect, invalidating one with the other)
• Lightness, playfulness
• Curious, seeking, searching
• Often has shiny, leaky eyes (leaking the high energy of sexuality)
• Not about orgasm (which one can have alone) but about letting go, dropping barriers, intimacy, closeness, union through revealing/denuding oneself
• Madonna or whore, abstinent or promiscuous
• Frigid or impotent, unusual sexual preferences
• Crime of passion
• Least likely to become famous (SP goes for immortality, SO intent on glory; SX has other things to do)

http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/subtypes.html

[Singu]

Parody video. so/sp gives advice to an sx/sp

Wow, that's actually an accurate representation of both Kristen Stewart and so/sp...

[silke]

^ LOL! I must have missed this video but that's absolutely hilarious. that emotional stability is why I envy so/sp's at times.

[silke]

I'm guessing Alanis Morissette is "seducer" Sx/Sp (IEE?).




Her song "Uninvited" has exactly that "stab-in-the-chest" feeling to it described of the stacking.

"Sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings. Talking of their personal thoughts and experiences, while forgetting to include others. (link)

[maniac]

..no. she's so/sp. "teacher"

[silke]

Another one of your free-witted associations.

I've worked as a teacher/instructor and there's no way I'm so/sp.

..no. she's so/sp. "teacher"

[maniac]

Another one of your free-witted associations.

I've worked as a teacher/instructor and there's no way I'm so/sp.

Lol. Exactly why do you think shes soc last? Teacher comes from the grand orator thing with so/sp. Soc is health and wholesomeness. Learn your shit.

[niffer]

there's no stacking called "dingus" for Ghost

[silke]

Lol. Exactly why do you think shes soc last? Teacher comes from the grand orator thing with so/sp.

IEE declaratim. How the fuck isn't this obvious to you?

Soc is health and wholesomeness. Learn your shit.

Ah, Soc is Sp? Health and wholesomeness.

What kind of magic mushrooms have you been smoking lately?

[maniac]

@silke IEE? Forget about it. This is enneagram.

(SO): Here, the eye lands on the health of the collective, building mutual support, being for someone or some group, affiliating, co-creating, participating, contributing, involvement. Bonding and relationship-building belong in this category, not with the Sexual Instinct. Social gives us the ‘intelligence’ to read people and respond to them, adapt to them, communicate and interpret subtleties. All language, words, verbal exchanges fall under the purview of this Instinct. SO can go low though: It sparks the response that burns witches at the stake, exterminates populations that are deemed ‘diseased vermin’ or those that are lesser/lower in some way… or can also put an undue amount of attention into status, rank, respectability, pedigree, reputation, strata, provenance. Otherwise, wholesome cleanliness and the ‘white light’ Apollonian themes of order, law, history, medicine, higher education, government, lofty eternal principles and ideologies get their first push and continued attention from the Social Instinct. According to evolutionary biology, this Instinct is the latest to have emerged, perhaps the ‘more advanced and complex’ Instinct, i.e.- the stuff that animates our impulse toward the Humanities, altruistic vision, goodwill, the ‘higher good’, the conceptual space of civilization and religion. Social is the bodily sensation of not being a closed circuit. Perhaps the bridge or link between instinct and the wider-view emotions that inspire animals to care for their young; this is the parenting instinct. The connection to history and participation in the collective human journey.

Sp can be physical health, yeah. But its not in itself the "humanistic" way that soc is. This is why soc-lasts are often viewed as dark and unhealthy to soc 1st and 2nds.

For example, sx/sp and sp/sx are significantly missing the Social elements of fresh air and sunlight. Looking at them there’s a kind of shrouded/hooded quality, something of a cave-dweller or a Death theme in some form (scroll back up to the stacking titles in the section just above to get a feel for it). ‹ Take away air, quickly comes Death. › The obliviousness to the collective good (Social-last) contributes to the shadowy/cloaked quality of these stackings — there’s an unintelligence about social stigma that can take people of these two stackings deep into ‘alternative’ territories. The aspect of Social that’s compelled to define people into clear roles that connect into a bigger picture is missing here. So, an upside in these two stackings is that communications can be more personal, contactful and intimate because the aura of the collective isn’t brought into one-to-one exchanges in the way it inadvertently is with those who aren’t social-last. This friend-of-the-dark quality can translate to a capacity to work, hands on (figuratively-speaking), in the muck of psyche, and linger long in a non-judgmental attitude with other people’s ugly/corrupt underbellies and issues, potentially even spilling themselves into others’ dark sides.

Btw, if there is something to that thing you quoted about sx/sp and their way of writing, its possible that she comes off that way because she's a 4, and sx/sp is quasi-4.

And, you don't smoke mushrooms, you eat them.

[Singu]

Alanis Morissette has to be an sx-first... she takes her relationship very seriously and is very intense:

[niffer]

At least that explains the time @Ghost suggested enneagram 4w5 for me.

[maniac]

So/sp stacking can really fuck up how someones core type comes off. Some of the longest debates on forums are about people with that stacking. ******, Obama, Oprah etc

[niffer]

You mention this "subtly" as if your opinions have any weight whatsoever on mine or anybody else's opinions @Ghost . In reality you are more or less a counter-educational village idiot here and if you didn't quote and mention people to attempt to shit disturb you would be completely overlooked and irrelevant because nobody would bother to respond to you or give you the time of day except in mockery of you.

[maniac]

Keep living in your fantasy world @niffer. There's no point in conversating with you, as most people have already said to you here. Ignoring you from now on.

[niffer]

I'll give you a "constructive" for that so you at least get one. Your existence here relies entirely on the patience and goodwill of others.

[maniac]

[Samson]

Alanis Morissette is not an Sx dom.

Compare her to Prince (Sx/Sp 4w3) or PJ Harvey (Sx/Sp 4w5).

[silke]

^ neither of them is sx/sp

[silke]

Charlotte James - sx/sp 4w3 (ESI)

[maniac]

^yes they are. Do you by any chance mistype yourself sx/sp and thats also why you mistype others as sx/sp?

[Shytan]

@lynn , you got me thinking- two people of different stackings but with the same first instinct may behave in similar ways and have similar needs but they will execute the fulfillment of those needs in very different ways. One important difference I have noticed when I compare myself to my exes, who were both sx/sos, is that it appears that while sx/sos want to transform the people around them (which many scholars have written about before me), sx/sps wants to transform themselves.

Sp-firsts are said to feel the need for a mate because it makes them feel secure. You could say that for Hades. Sp-firsts also consider their loved ones as a part of themselves; both Persephone's mother and her husband behave possessively towards her. However, contrast Hades (sp/sx) with Demeter (sp/so). Hades had very little consideration for the rules of the gods and nature; as is often typical for social lasts, when he wanted something, he went ahead and got it, paying little mind to whomever was offended or what harm he may have to had incur on himself in the 'social realm' so to speak; his method of uhh getting Persephone was rather ... 'forceful', the dark side of 'sx'.

Compare his actions with Demeter's, who basically forced the hands of others in her pursuit- one could say that they all 'banded' with her, so as to put pressure on Hades; she used the social support she had as a resource to retrieve her loved one; as a result, Hades was forced to let his wife leave him for a portion of the year.

As a social last, myself, I weirdly sympathize with him; not on the gross, rapey, deceitful part but yeah, it ain't fun to let 'so' things in the way of achieving personal goals.

@inabox Explain the Sx/so and Sx/sp difference with examples please. The one on transforming themselves vs others.

[Neokortex]

Esther Perel belongs to the Sx/So thread, btw.

I didn't get those vibes from her... Maybe her head-type has some Sx, otherwise she seems fairly casual.

[mclane]

^yes they are.

How do you know they are?

[Neokortex]

In reality it is neither A or B though.

I agree other things can be mistaken for sx instinct though. I only read some posts on this thread so I am not aware of all the social dynamics or whatever.

I'm more aware, though, bc I checked the music videos. People just can't be farther from the empirical counterpart of these theories out there.

There are plenty of threads here where people are being "real" about whatever type they are and what they feel is their instinct stackings. Sometimes it is their type and sometimes it is not. I skip most videos, tbh. Fighting other people's perception often means having to defend your own.

Then we gotta open another Sx/Sp thread for some serious exchange since I couldn't find any other "general" Sx/Sp threads out there. On a 2nd thought, maybe 3 Sx/Sp threads: for Head, Heart & Gut centers.

Point is: that even though some people seem to "get it," the thread doesn't really contain any Sx/Sp behavior from the part of the users. They aren't locking on each other like some bloodsuckin' goatsuckin' chupacabras. If you get my drift. I asked you a question before about your own real life sx/sp behavior, you had mentioned some experimenting tricks on people-thing but you completely ignored it. Same thing here, opening up instead of speaking about something removed from their private self would require more intimacy btw the members. Would you be so kind and break the ice Miss Aylen? Bouncing ideas is okay but I think there're some who come here to meet other Sx/Sps. For Real. To hunt down a partner. :-P Find a friend.

Some things have me wondering wtf are they thinking, like your cute disney video but hey, if that is how how experience sx then who am I to judge it.

The video was a joke. Of course the trope is fitting, but just quoting vids about couples obviously won't do it.