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Last edited by tereg; 05-07-2010 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Edited by user request
I think that what she means (not that I necessarily agree) is that Se --> focus on reality, what is "real" and Ne--> focus on potentialities
So the ISFj with Ne PoLR would particularly weary of risks (including running out of food, money) and the INFj with Se PoLR is less focused on real, practical matters and therefore more prone to being a bit reckless by default.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
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Se producing = spontaneous creative punch in the face.
Check out that new creepy movie with Sandra Bullock, Premenitions, she seems very meek at first and the kicks some ass... The girl in this fight scene seems like one of those isfj... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_tiBGOEoVM i cant help but laugh at the bad Ne at the end.
-Slava
What a great replacement for a nany
I don't know which explanation is the most correct functionally, but the difference Filatova describes between ISFjs and INFjs --Originally Posted by Diana
ISFj: Her strong sense is represented in her economic activity: she’s zealous, honest and conscientious, especially in domestic circumstances. She generally keeps a lot of products in storage (i.e. buried, in a shed, garage). Always makes sure there are reserves. She makes sure that there is a minimum of waste, whether it is remaining floor panels or remainders of food products.
This thrift contributes to allow her to accumulate a sufficient means in order to buy a necessary quantity of articles in daily life, which symbolize welfare – gifts for others, household machines etc. She obtains everything via honest labor and scrupulous economy, not by reckless adventure or by dishonest mechanizations – such would contradict her moral principles.
INFj: Find it difficult to efficiently complete household tasks, organize their budget, and purchase necessary things.
-- is very accurate, and that is the most important thing for me. She has got the types right. If she also has got the functions right I leave for others to determine. Expat has mentioned that he thinks that Stratiyevskaya confuses the functions, and maybe he is right about that, but her descriptions of the types as whole units are also very accurate.
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INFjs are economical. They just have issues when it comes to people over money. Money is always more expendable than people. NF idealism.Originally Posted by Diana
ENFps are as it was - not too interested in the world of material things.
LIIs don't like doing unnecessary things, and thus are relatively acetic. The more healthy I am, the more acetic.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
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And why do you not necessarily agree? Actually, you've just articulated a much better rendition of Se than most of what I see in Socionics. Se does involve focus on shared external physical reality. Ne does involve potentialities. Who could disagree with that?Originally Posted by Expat
Somehow, people (not you, necessarily) have gotten onto this thing that Se is all about physical violence, or at the very least psychological manipulation.
Se types focus on clear plain reality that's outside of them. Sometimes that makes them get physical or manipulative.
I think part of the problem, besides some less-than-perfect descriptions from Augusta and other Socionists, is that there are a lot of people on this forum who's type says that should be against Se, and therefore they have a very distorted, negative view of what Se is.
So Se types are just blockheads? That's no better an interpretation. And I fail to see the logical connection.Originally Posted by Jonathan
Of course you can make these traits sound either negative or positive; that goes for anything. But they still all apply to Se.
What I do not necessarily agree with is attributing "being more economical" to Se. I think I can see why she'd think so, but I'm not sure I agree.Originally Posted by Jonathan
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I'm going to make a distinction without a difference, perhaps.Originally Posted by Diana
I would not categorize them under Se specifically. I would categorize them under the Se-Ni preference in Gamma and Si-Ne for Delta. Which may amount to the same thing, but I think that attributing them to Se "only" may lead to other misunderstandings.
The Delta quadra, being Si-Ne rather than Se-Ni, is more "present details" oriented. And that's precisely what the INFj and the ENFp need most, or appreciate most, in their duals: how to be practical and efficient about daily, physical, practical needs (Si + Te). I mean that's what Slacker Mom seems to need the most from her ISTp husband. So an INFj "missing an ESTj" might have a little with difficulty on a day-to-day basis with such matters:
Which are Si + Te related.Find it difficult to efficiently complete household tasks, organize their budget, and purchase necessary things.
The ISFj, on the other hand, is Se-Ni with Te - Ni in the super-id. What the ISFj "misses" from the ENTj dual is not how do deal with daily, physical, practical needs (definitely not ). The ISFj is more than confident in Si matters. Where the ISFj would like the help of the ENTj's Te + Ni is about efficiency in practical matters in the longer term - as in investments, for instance. So it makes perfect sense of the ISFj to be conservative about money in the longer term (ie being thrifty) and quite confident about a budget and buying necessary things on a daily basis.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Se is about seeing reality and acting on it, if you only see reality then you can only push forward to make your dreams come true as long as the forces that are against your dreams do not outweigh yours.
The distinction that Diana makes also has to be referred to positive negative, negative types generally are more concerned about saving money, ceteris paribus (same age sex societal position education same base function (ex. esfps spend A LOT more than ESTps but estps spend more than ISTjs even if istjs are positivists)
we could rank the dichotomies but now my mental capabilities are not exactly at their best
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Se is Static-Irrational, so as FDG said:Originally Posted by Jonathan
That is Se for Se EPs ie Se-dominants. For them, due to this, the "physical violence" or at least "physical -- excitement" aspect is quite significant. It is less helpful for ISTjs or ISFjs who are Se IJs with creative Se. For those, Se as "reality-focused" as opposed to "potentials-focused" is more accurate.Originally Posted by FDG
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
It should be unlocked now.Originally Posted by Diana