Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvic81 View Post
(Rhetorical questions) Then I'm Fi PoLR too. I have the exact same problems. So? Does this keep this type of argument valid? Should Fi role be that much better at it, really?


@Northstar

I would say you come off like Ti lead in general here in this thread too with how you really are not engaging too deep in discussion, you present your already finished serious conclusions instead. You do not readily enter exchanges on the Ti stuff. Me either, I actually like arguing more than you I think, but the logic is kinda inert like yours. Or I mean, some people can jump at me now and say it's the Se that's inert pressure behind the logic blah blah (SLE>LSI). But I just see your style as LXI more than Ti creative. If you do any Ti creative-ish stuff - like twisting stuff more around instead of serious reasoning that stands on its own - at all it seems to be for really short periods - same for me actually.

Ofc all this could also just be IQ instead or something.

Anyway. This is where I would agree with you actually regarding the issue of how Model A is only a roughly "correct" draft of things so you don't draw conclusions directly based on Model A. Me either, nah. Exactly because you can't do deductions to get to conclusions with a "roughly correct thing" applied on the wrong abstraction level. So I would say you are keeping more logically consistent this way actually. And not falling into some bad rabbithole. Following Model A in the above way would lead to that only. If you value keeping logically consistent instead then you can end up in a place that's a new system that's no longer even Socionics but works better and also explains things better. This is trivial of course, I'm just fleshing this out for the thread in general.

...

I also picked LSI-Se in a similar way to you. SLE-Ti of course also has both an introverted phlegmatic Ti thingy and the Se impulsiveness. But SLE-Ti is really just holding that Se animal back temporarily while LSI is just really actually serious and straightforward a lot of the time. And you come off as the latter one to me. I could be wrong, this is just how your stuff comes off.

Also where you say: "if I was talking to someone that puts out a plenty of Fe, then I become much more expressive, bantering and joking. When alone, I tend to fall into the unexpressive Ti analysis state"

Stereotypical Fe suggestive supposedly. The "serious structured Ti lead suddenly becomes all jovial, expressive, emotionally spontaneous" ... Tho being alone you are ofc not going to be expressive as there is no one around lol unless you are the type who likes to do drama plays by themselves or whatever.

Out of curiosity, the imagery in your head, is it like static visual images/snapshots that can be analysed spatially or help with logic in such a fashion? And yeah, I never quoted stuff from books for university papers either.

As for Ne PoLR. My understanding is that LSI-Ti is kind of better with intuition so I am not sure if their Ne is worse than LSI-Se's.

LSI-Ti: "Lacks sufficient flexibility in dealing with people and is poor at taking their individual abilities into account."
LSI-Se: "Applies the same requirements to everyone without taking individual abilities and circumstances into account."

To me this comes off as, LSI-Ti tries to Ne sometimes, just really sucks at it while LSI-Se is kinda confident that they can deal with the situation doing their Se approach instead, lol. Frankly that's exactly how I am.

I do like Ne+Ti too lol, I've known some ILEs and one of them is a pretty good friend, I like his stuff, I just can't uh, keep following ALL his tangents and ideas lol. But it's still fascinating enough. And with Fi I get sick of that stuff fast if I'm supposed to feel internal Fi feelz. It really is bad for the Ti. I've heard my LII (LII-0) friend rant about how he hates Fi. Yeah uh... And he's definitely not ILE either, lol.

If you say you are OK with receiving Fe emotional expressions/drama/etc lol, and you don't feel that replaces your own emotional reactions too much then yeah I would say that is Fe suggestive where you do have more resistance to replacing your Ni.

One more thing on Fe for LSI-Se vs SLE: going back to that article on LSI subtypes, it says "From time to time needs an emotional discharge to alleviate his inner tensions. In such cases does not hide his emotions and waits for reciprocal sincerity from his partner. Finds it difficult to attain inner balance". This can certainly be interpreted in the Fe HA-ish way. As SLE also needs their emotional release and until then it's just waiting to "break free" using your wording.

Also indicative of Fe suggestive and jungian inferior Feeling is where you said you are not aware of your feelings on the spot. Hardest to access inferior function on the spot. Frankly that's another way I could see my Ni as being stronger than Fe even tho' the Ni isn't all that strong either.

Then, the thing with utilising logic for some Se/Ni goals and being suspicious about some motives, that's the same for me too. I mean it'd be Se PoLR if you were unable to do that with utilising logic for the goals like that. Not being able to give up ideals for the real goals and "street smarts" or to be "biased" towards desires.

As for cognitive styles, I think you got a load of C-D, not just really H-P... you are doing that type of deductive reasoning a looot. It's one of the things that tips me off to you being LSI over SLE actually.

Being more reactive than proactive i.e. responsive to interaction rather than initiative-taking in the interaction, that would be introtim yes

All in all, there is just not going to be a way to decide between SLE and LSI based on this or that snippet or little detail, but if you put all of them together and they just line up sensibly for LSI rather than for SLE and if the subtype makes it line up even more sensibly then I would think your self-typing is correct. That is how it's worked for me anyhow (deciding between LSI vs SLE). Tbh it feels very Ni in a way lol, perceiving the dots connecting like that.

@Adam Strange I got to disappoint you. I also talk like Northstar with how I focus on the immediate actions and also I have the same trust and reliance on tangible presence to get things done. I do not like to talk much about plans for future development, nah, I'd rather go and execute that plan. And no I don't type SLE.
LSI-Ti has better N and T and worse F and S than LSI-Se. This means that LSI-Ti looks closer to an LII-Ti and an LSI-Se looks closers to an ESI-Se