Logically rationalize God

[Aylen]

Satan is eminently rationalizeable, just start trying to out hipster a real hipster. Pathetic yes, but so is Satan. Now, by the same token, try to out priest a priest. You'll sadly be able to do that with quite a few of them but once you finally come across a real one you'll get what I'm getting at.

You could also shock me right here and now if you pass a witch test. I have already sung false praises to Satan so as to prove my good faith to the fallen, can you sing false praises to Christ in turn while being as blatantly insincere as I was in my recorded blasphemy? Can ye even in jest say the words? I bet not. Prove me wrong.

“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”

― William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

Asking people to pass a "witch test" sounds like you learned it from an anime or some fantasy novel and not actual information based on history and the witch trials. You do realize that even a "possessed" person or satan himself would pass your "witch test" easily. I feel like you make a mockery of it all doing this. I may not consider myself a Christian anymore for my own reasons but I find this pretty offensive when you asked people to do this. Witch burnings were no joke. So many innocents killed in the name of religion. Many of them probably just for using herbs to help heal or something else very benign. Others because someone wanted their property and saw it as an easy way to get and then we have the ergot poisoning, schizophrenia and other mental illnesses.

I also find it strange that you would blaspheme as a true believer. When I was one I would have never praised satan even as a joke and definitely not in arrogance in an attempt to get someone to praise god then to blaspheme him after. Something does not make sense about all this.

2. Prayer Test
Medieval wisdom held that witches were incapable of speaking scripture aloud, so accused sorcerers were made to recite selections from the Bible—usually the Lord’s Prayer—without making mistakes or omissions. While it may have simply been a sign that the suspected witch was illiterate or nervous, any errors were viewed as proof that the speaker was in league with the devil. This twisted test of public speaking ability was commonly used as hard evidence in witch trials. In 1712, it was applied in the case Jane Wenham, an accused witch who supposedly struggled to speak the words “forgive us our trespasses” and “lead us not into temptation” during her interrogation. Still, even a successful prayer test didn’t guarantee an acquittal. During the Salem Witch Trials, the accused sorcerer George Burroughs flawlessly recited the prayer from the gallows just before his execution. The performance was dismissed as a devil’s trick, and the hanging proceeded as planned.

https://www.history.com/news/7-bizar...ch-trial-tests

Is this what Catholicism is like now? Has it reverted to superstition and witch tests? None of the Catholics I know would ask such a thing of anyone. They also wouldn't praise satan to make a point.

[End]

Still missing the essential point @Aylen. Can you do it? If it's as easy as you say and with my allowance of blasphemy to boot than why not just do as I ask? It's just a few words typed out and posted here after all. Unlike most others who think as I do I will not post your confession all over social media as I have no presence there. The Shakespeare quote is actually quite fitting too. See, the "Death Cultists" (as I like to refer to them as) assume Christian morality to be true and then seek to warp and twist it to get "Christians" to do or admit to essentially anti-Christian falsehoods and actions. That they do so speaks volumes about how shallow their faith really is. Fucking "So" instinct...

Plus let's get down to brass tacks. You ain't gonna get converts by opening with "All your gods and traditions are false, shit, and offensive to the one true God whom I just so happen to represent. Repent now or he's gonna kill you all and torture you for all eternity." You instead open with how they're getting it right in whatever way they are and then leading them from there. All religions have a "part" of the truth, but only Christianity has the full, complete, and unabridged version of it.

As for that prayer test you mentioned. If honestly applied by a supportive and caring inquisitor than it would have worked out well. Sadly, people are people, and if they can use a thing like a "witch hunt" to their personal and political advantage they will do so with gusto 99 times out of 100. I mentioned it in another post in another thread but the legend of "Tamamo no Mae" is the prime example of what "ought" to have been in my eyes. She recited the words and performed the "holy" ritual perfectly and flawlessly. So much so in fact that she didn't even notice that her true nature was being revealed as she did so. As the ritual proceeded the truth was made manifest as she suddenly started sprouting her fox tails. Once all nine of them were manifested, well, not even the most hardcore skeptic could deny the truth. That's when they sent out kill teams to hunt her down. Because even with flawless recitation and performance, a nine-tailed fox is a nine-tailed fox just as a witch is a witch. The logic was sound all around IMO.

If only we westerners had a similar myth I pray I am made aware of one day.

[Aylen]

Still missing the essential point @Aylen. Can you do it? If it's as easy as you say and with my allowance of blasphemy to boot than why not just do as I ask? It's just a few words typed out and posted here after all. Unlike most others who think as I do I will not post your confession all over social media as I have no presence there. The Shakespeare quote is actually quite fitting too. See, the "Death Cultists" (as I like to refer to them as) assume Christian morality to be true and then seek to warp and twist it to get "Christians" to do or admit to essentially anti-Christian falsehoods and actions. That they do so speaks volumes about how shallow their faith really is. Fucking "So" instinct...

Plus let's get down to brass tacks. You ain't gonna get converts by opening with "All your gods and traditions are false, shit, and offensive to the one true God whom I just so happen to represent. Repent now or he's gonna kill you all and torture you for all eternity." You instead open with how they're getting it right in whatever way they are and then leading them from there. All religions have a "part" of the truth, but only Christianity has the full, complete, and unabridged version of it.

As for that prayer test you mentioned. If honestly applied by a supportive and caring inquisitor than it would have worked out well. Sadly, people are people, and if they can use a thing like a "witch hunt" to their personal and political advantage they will do so with gusto 99 times out of 100. I mentioned it in another post in another thread but the legend of "Tamamo no Mae" is the prime example of what "ought" to have been in my eyes. She recited the words and performed the "holy" ritual perfectly and flawlessly. So much so in fact that she didn't even notice that her true nature was being revealed as she did so. As the ritual proceeded the truth was made manifest as she suddenly started sprouting her fox tails. Once all nine of them were manifested, well, not even the most hardcore skeptic could deny the truth. That's when they sent out kill teams to hunt her down. Because even with flawless recitation and performance, a nine-tailed fox is a nine-tailed fox just as a witch is a witch. The logic was sound all around IMO.

If only we westerners had a similar myth I pray I am made aware of one day.

I was probably saying those words, in fluent Greek, before you were born. I have nothing to prove to you. I have freely admitted to being a witchy woman. if I say any words it is because they are mine and come from my heart, not yours.

I have a "source of all things" within me. I am not defining the energy beyond that right now. I am not linking it to any specific religion. You do not know what my relationship to source is.

I was you once, different denomination, same tactics. I proselytized with awkward fervor (and little knowledge) out of fear for my family and friends, when I joined a "born again" church. They finally got sick of it and an ILI talked some sense to me. I finally snapped out of it. It was like being under their spell but when it was broken I no longer feared for anyone's eternal soul.

There are many Christians that believe Catholics, Orthodox Christians and many other religions are full of pagans and/or idolaters. In their eyes you, personally, are heading straight to hell no matter what you say or do. This is the main argument used to justify it. I even chose a Catholic friendly translation.

"Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2 He came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, ‘Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God.’ 3 Jesus answered him, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.’[b] 4 Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?’ 5 Jesus answered, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, “You[d] must be born from above.”[e] 8 The wind[f] blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.’"

Beautiful words aren't they? Very nebulous and highly open to interpretation. Yet they damn most of the world to hell according to the so called "born again" that call themselves Christians too. If god has all these human like traits and failings he might find the "born again" Christians the most obnoxious. I know since I was one for awhile. They try to mask their hatefulness differently than other religions. "I love you but you're going to hell you idolaters." I am happy to be free of that kind of influence. It was one of the most insidious forms I have experienced since they make you feel both special and corrupt. Only their way can save. There is no other path to god for them so your water baptism means nothing in their eyes. Most Catholics I have talked to do not believe you need to be baptized in the same way they do. No matter who has ultimate truth I am covered under 4 types of baptisms now.

I think maybe if you were serious you would approach someone in pm and not with these theatrics. If someone is open to what you have to say maybe then they will hear you out. You are not selling your religion very well when you also talk about zombie Apocalypse as if it were going to happen. You don't think the second coming will be Jesus zombie edition do you? I really hope not. :/

Also, again with you trying to get people to blaspheme. What is up with that?

[End]

@Aylen. Again, you miss the point and again I will ask you to simply do as I ask as you are making yourself quite a ripe target for my little test. They are just mere words (that you've even said yourself verbatim before if you're being honest about your background here), bits of data, a simple collection of one's and zero's after all. So why not just say the words with fingers crossed blaspheming and all? Dare I say you may well make me a Pagan if you did so . No, seriously, I'm that certain on this front. Say the words, post them here, defy my expectations, and you really will shake my faith as I currently hold it. I'm essentially offering you my neck here, why not swing the blade?

As for that hatred you detected, good on you as you're mostly correct. Most modern "Christians" are sadly anything but. Like I said, damned "So" instinct. It's more about the group mentality than it is actual faith. "We" Good, "They" baaaad. Basic human fallen nature. You misunderstand my viewpoint however. From my own perspective, I don't see a single soul as being truly damned until they've died (and even then I cannot be sure for I am not God). You ain't going to hell until you die and refuse God's mercy. It's a thing Catholic teaching says is possible (eg. you truly repent for all your sins upon seeing the merest sliver of the abyss even if you haven't gone to confession recently), but that's like banking on winning tonight's lottery to pay off the mob debt you owe that's gonna come due exactly one hour and 15 seconds after that drawing is finalized. Might work on paper, could happen, but not a thing you'd exactly think is a wise course of action.

C.S. Lewis had a good quote relating to what I'm getting at here: "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened."

[Tonatiuh]

So why not just say the words with fingers crossed blaspheming and all?

Fuck you god fuck you god

[End]

Fuck you god fuck you god

You almost had my number but, predictably, failure. See. you had to first say something like "Jesus is the Christ and God has risen him from the dead", "Jesus/Christ is King", "Praise be unto the one true lord Jesus Christ", etc.

Try again, please. I have full faith and confidence in my God (that you have in one form or another as I've frequently pointed out to literally everyone on this forum). So I get to ask another fun question. Who/what is your god? I am legitimately curious.

[Tonatiuh]

You almost had my number but, predictably, failure. See. you had to first say something like "Jesus is the Christ and God has risen him from the dead", "Jesus/Christ is King", "Praise be unto the one true lord Jesus Christ", etc.

Try again, please. I have full faith and confidence in my God (that you have in one form or another as I've frequently pointed out to literally everyone on this forum), do you?

You got all that from what I said, shit. I wonder what ur blood pressure is at. Well since you asked I have full confidence in my god. Have you figured out my denomination yet?

[Socionics Is A Cult]

@Aylen. Again, you miss the point and again I will ask you to simply do as I ask as you are making yourself quite a ripe target for my little test. They are just mere words (that you've even said yourself verbatim before if you're being honest about your background here), bits of data, a simple collection of one's and zero's after all. So why not just say the words with fingers crossed blaspheming and all? Dare I say you may well make me a Pagan if you did so . No, seriously, I'm that certain on this front. Say the words, post them here, defy my expectations, and you really will shake my faith as I currently hold it. I'm essentially offering you my neck here, why not swing the blade?

As for that hatred you detected, good on you as you're mostly correct. Most modern "Christians" are sadly anything but. Like I said, damned "So" instinct. It's more about the group mentality than it is actual faith. "We" Good, "They" baaaad. Basic human fallen nature. You misunderstand my viewpoint however. From my own perspective, I don't see a single soul as being truly damned until they've died (and even then I cannot be sure for I am not God). You ain't going to hell until you die and refuse God's mercy. It's a thing Catholic teaching says is possible (eg. you truly repent for all your sins upon seeing the merest sliver of the abyss even if you haven't gone to confession recently), but that's like banking on winning tonight's lottery to pay off the mob debt you owe that's gonna come due exactly one hour and 15 seconds after that drawing is finalized. Might work on paper, could happen, but not a thing you'd exactly think is a wise course of action.

C.S. Lewis had a good quote relating to what I'm getting at here: "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened."

A merciful being does not engage in torture.

You cannot choose to go to a place you don't believe in.

According to the bible, Jesus has already redeemed everybody's sins. That means that if the Christian God sends anyone to hell, it isn't because of sin.

[Aylen]

@Aylen. Again, you miss the point and again I will ask you to simply do as I ask as you are making yourself quite a ripe target for my little test. They are just mere words (that you've even said yourself verbatim before if you're being honest about your background here), bits of data, a simple collection of one's and zero's after all. So why not just say the words with fingers crossed blaspheming and all? Dare I say you may well make me a Pagan if you did so . No, seriously, I'm that certain on this front. Say the words, post them here, defy my expectations, and you really will shake my faith as I currently hold it. I'm essentially offering you my neck here, why not swing the blade?

As for that hatred you detected, good on you as you're mostly correct. Most modern "Christians" are sadly anything but. Like I said, damned "So" instinct. It's more about the group mentality than it is actual faith. "We" Good, "They" baaaad. Basic human fallen nature. You misunderstand my viewpoint however. From my own perspective, I don't see a single soul as being truly damned until they've died (and even then I cannot be sure for I am not God). You ain't going to hell until you die and refuse God's mercy. It's a thing Catholic teaching says is possible (eg. you truly repent for all your sins upon seeing the merest sliver of the abyss even if you haven't gone to confession recently), but that's like banking on winning tonight's lottery to pay off the mob debt you owe that's gonna come due exactly one hour and 15 seconds after that drawing is finalized. Might work on paper, could happen, but not a thing you'd exactly think is a wise course of action.

C.S. Lewis had a good quote relating to what I'm getting at here: "There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened."

Not sure why you are questioning my honesty on this. My past concerning religion is something I have written somewhat in depth on in various threads. I also wrote about why I chose to stop identifying myself as a Christian. My mom was always pretty devout and was angry at me for it. We worked it out because I respect her. I no longer wanted to make her feel bad about what she believes. It broke her heart when I told her I was not one anymore. In her mind I am and always will be. When we lived in Greece she watched them dunk me in the holy water at 41 days old. I let her hold onto that idea after some initial conflict over it because I love her too. It was like a "don't ask, don't tell" situation after that. Until she got really sick and was put in hospice, then I prayed with her in Greek which I hadn't for years. We all did. So like I said before, I have nothing to prove to you. I prayed with my mom to comfort her. What you are asking is silly to me but that's ok. I have no desire to turn you pagan or anything else. Maybe you are a witch too.

My posts are there for anyone to read. Are you really questioning if I am capable of saying the Orthodox Christian prayers in Greek before you were born? I was born in Greece, moved to the USA when I was a small child, went to Sunday school every Sunday and to Greek school after regular school so I once spoke Greek fluently. I lost most of it when I stopped going to Greek school but it does come back to me and I can understand better than speak it now. I was made to recite the prayers in both Greek school and Sunday school in front of everyone. So let's say if I was age 7 at that time, it was before you were born since I don't know your age for sure. I think it is at the very least 7 years between us. If you are older than me I have to reset my concept of reality.

[End]

@End: relying on magical incantations to try to prove/disprove someone is a witch. . . do you see the irony?

If it's magical nonsense than why is it so effective? I mean seriously, try and get people to say the words. It's shocking how hard it is for many of them to do so publicly. Doubly so since I'm making a great deal of concessions here.

Not sure why you are questioning my honesty on this.

I'm not really (many have fallen away from the faith to be sure and you are probably one of them, but it would also be good rhetoric to say what you did and thus my philosophical disdain for such things came out. Damned Sophists ruin everything), but while you may have nothing to prove to me I still find it fascinating that you won't say words you've said before (or that anyone else isn't doing something logical. Like I said, I'm at their mercy, why will they not strike me?) It's the fact that it's essentially recorded I'd wager. That's the major stumbling block far as I can deduce. I've said it above, you and anyone else here can pretty effectively shake my current understanding of the world if they but type and post mere words on a forum 99.9 percent of the world's population will never see or even know about. They have to be hostile towards Christ and/or unbelievers first though, any believer would obviously be able to do it easily so it proves only that they do in fact believe. Good for them, but not exactly defying my current understanding of things .

[sbbds]

If it's magical nonsense than why is it so effective? I mean seriously, try and get people to say the words. It's shocking how hard it is for many of them to do so publicly. Doubly so since I'm making a great deal of concessions here.



I'm not really (many have fallen away from the faith to be sure and you are probably one of them, but it would also be good rhetoric to say what you did and thus my philosophical disdain for such things came out. Damned Sophists ruin everything), but while you may have nothing to prove to me I still find it fascinating that you won't say words you've said before (or that anyone else isn't doing something logical. Like I said, I'm at their mercy, why will they not strike me?) It's the fact that it's essentially recorded I'd wager. That's the major stumbling block far as I can deduce. I've said it above, you and anyone else here can pretty effectively shake my current understanding of the world if they but type and post mere words on a forum 99.9 percent of the world's population will never see or even know about. They have to be hostile towards Christ and/or unbelievers first though, any believer would obviously be able to do it easily so it proves only that they do in fact believe. Good for them, but not exactly defying my current understanding of things .

You are retarded. People being conditioned their entire lives not to say certain things and being expectedly taken by surprise when asked to say them out of the blue is unrelated to God’s existence and not proof of anything.

[Aylen]

If it's magical nonsense than why is it so effective? I mean seriously, try and get people to say the words. It's shocking how hard it is for many of them to do so publicly. Doubly so since I'm making a great deal of concessions here.



I'm not really (many have fallen away from the faith to be sure and you are probably one of them, but it would also be good rhetoric to say what you did and thus my philosophical disdain for such things came out. Damned Sophists ruin everything), but while you may have nothing to prove to me I still find it fascinating that you won't say words you've said before (or that anyone else isn't doing something logical. Like I said, I'm at their mercy, why will they not strike me?) It's the fact that it's essentially recorded I'd wager. That's the major stumbling block far as I can deduce. I've said it above, you and anyone else here can pretty effectively shake my current understanding of the world if they but type and post mere words on a forum 99.9 percent of the world's population will never see or even know about. They have to be hostile towards Christ and/or unbelievers first though, any believer would obviously be able to do it easily so it proves only that they do in fact believe. Good for them, but not exactly defying my current understanding of things .

End, I am not going to cater to your kinky fantasy here. If you want someone to strike you try some bdsm community or maybe you will have some luck asking nicely in random thoughts thread.

Aside from that, I have no desire to change your beliefs or shake your world. Believe what you want. I think, what you think, you are deducing from all this does not apply in my case. I can't speak for others. People just think you are being delusional and arrogant with you requests since you don't demonstrate any real knowledge about your religion. You pretty much confirmed my suspicion that you are highly influenced by fantasy/anime plus you have some kind of martyr complex going on here.

I wish you the best on your spiritual journey.

[Tonatiuh]

Repent now or he's gonna kill you all and torture you for all eternity.

You must be amazing to have at parties, I would invite you for sure.