EII-LSE Duality Relations (INFj-ESTj)

[Lord Pixel]

One funny and subtle thing I've observed about ESTjs are this. When they are feeling bad or low or insecure about something if it's ever expressed, it's expressed as a joke. And that seems like a defense mechanism, if I were to explain it, it would be like , they are experiencing some distress ( whether it be extreme or mild I do not know) but they don't want to seem sensitive so they say it as a joke just incase someone thinks they are weak they can say "Nah I don't really care I am joking," BUT if you actually show concern in how they are doing when they express something like this you might get a more down to earth less jokey response. It's like they are fishing for someone to take concern in their low emotional state BUT don't want to pressure others or appear weak so they have an exit which is "I'm just messing around, I'm fine." As an Fi 4D though, it is easy to tell that the "hurt" is real under the joke BUT the joke is placed so you do not take the hurt so seriously so a subtle approach is required, so instead of asking "OMG WHAT's wrong?!" (since that would be an over-reaction) an EII might just ask "Hey you alright man?" And throw in a laugh to match the playful joke while showing real concern. That fine line between serious and playful seems to be matched there.

[Minde]

One funny and subtle thing I've observed about ESTjs are this. When they are feeling bad or low or insecure about something if it's ever expressed, it's expressed as a joke. And that seems like a defense mechanism, if I were to explain it, it would be like , they are experiencing some distress ( whether it be extreme or mild I do not know) but they don't want to seem sensitive so they say it as a joke just incase someone thinks they are weak they can say "Nah I don't really care I am joking," BUT if you actually show concern in how they are doing when they express something like this you might get a more down to earth less jokey response. It's like they are fishing for someone to take concern in their low emotional state BUT don't want to pressure others or appear weak so they have an exit which is "I'm just messing around, I'm fine." As an Fi 4D though, it is easy to tell that the "hurt" is real under the joke BUT the joke is placed so you do not take the hurt so seriously so a subtle approach is required, so instead of asking "OMG WHAT's wrong?!" (since that would be an over-reaction) an EII might just ask "Hey you alright man?" And throw in a laugh to match the playful joke while showing real concern. That fine line between serious and playful seems to be matched there.

Hm, I'd disagree somewhat on the bolded. Humor can be used, yes, and another common expression is anger. Sometimes they also start lecturing. The topic of the anger and lectures might not be directly related to the insecurity, but usually there's at least a tangential connection. The angst can also come across as pseudo-victim either "assertive backing away" or even a form of passive aggressiveness.

For example, a LSE I know one time realized they were rambling, got self-conscious about it (not very visibly to the untrained eye, but I caught it), then very purposefully avoided talking to me the rest of the evening. As they left at the end of the night, they said something along the lines of apologizing for our boring conversation and then disappeared before I could correct the misunderstanding / address the insecurity.

The pseudo-victim-y-ness can be compared to when an EII goes off the rails when they're upset, acting all aggressive. It's transparent and pathetic, and to anyone who actually is a victim/aggressor I imagine it's off-putting or confusing. To other caregivers/childlikes, especially same quadra, it can be an effective if somewhat eye-roll-causing call for help.

[Sol]

Hm, I'd disagree somewhat on the bolded.

Among not close or familiar people LSE often play Fe-image "all is ok" part of what mb depreciation of problems, including through joking.

> Humor can be used, yes, and another common expression is anger. Sometimes they also start lecturing.

seems you were lucky to communicate with E-1 version

[Myst]

The pseudo-victim-y-ness can be compared to when an EII goes off the rails when they're upset, acting all aggressive. It's transparent and pathetic, and to anyone who actually is a victim/aggressor I imagine it's off-putting or confusing. To other caregivers/childlikes, especially same quadra, it can be an effective if somewhat eye-roll-causing call for help.

To me it just comes off as tantrumy hatefulness

[Minde]

Among not close or familiar people LSE often play Fe-image "all is ok" part of what mb depreciation of problems, including through joking.

Yes.

seems you were lucky to communicate with E-1 version

Do you think other E types (of LSE) do not lecture?

To me it just comes off as tantrumy hatefulness

Right.

[Sol]

Do you think other E types (of LSE) do not lecture?

In case there is the common conjuction of lecturing and anger, apprehension: criticism, trying to do better, giving advices, - points to E-1. Common lecturing in good or neutral mood points to other E-type.