misutii: yes that's very close to what I think, too

I don't dismiss typing by description, and I think it's impossible to learn Socionics (on your own) if you don't read them, and read them a lot. But you have to understand what they are actually describing.

So, in the case of ESTp and ESFps, probably most of them are indeed more talkative than most other people of other types. But there isn't anything intrinsic to them to make them necessarily talkative, their irrational-extroversion may be manifested in other ways. So what I'm just saying is that it's a mistake to say, "all the ESTps I know are talkative, and the descriptions say that too, so he's not an ESTp". Perhaps, but not necessarily.

I think we are on the same wavelength.