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    That entire sequence of events for the development of the flagella relies on inherent direction of order. Apparently there is zero direction in evolution. Directionless, purposeless. Yet several simultaneous mutations are required at the same time and these had to be carried on through generations as they immediately needed to have some kind of benefit.

    Frankly its all bullshit. The entire atheist, purposeless, happenstance is entirely bullshit. If it was so easy to theorize about why haven't researchers actually just done it? Just make it already. Its because its far to complex.

    The flagella is just the tip of the iceberg. The folding shape of proteins is another insurmountable obstacle. DNA doesn't bind as amino acid nucleotides without enzymes. Explain the world before enzymes to make DNA? It’s incredibly complex operation for technicians to even do by forcing these molecules to comply with advanced laboratory techniques, you really believe this totally perfect scenario was playing out on early, UV scorched Earth?? As if all you need are the parts and a car will just assemble itself if given enough time. It wouldn’t happen in a hypothetical world, so how could a place with zilch in the way of molecules with some perfect ability to copy with fecundity aka. DNA without a cell wall...just happened to propagate, how the hell did it even get to that place in the first place? DNA doesn't just go together by itself, it needs other kinds of chemistry for that to happen. Hard to do by teams of people in a lab with the best technology, but it was happening in treacherous nature without any mindful intervention just cause? Hur-dur.

    Information in terms of evolution is about creating new forms more complex forms from less complex forms. If it was so easy why haven't they produced a new species of fruit flies after all these years? Time scales are all off as well. Whales in 10 million years is impossible using the very same principles. Make even a simple bacteria that works, but don't cheat and just mash already available forms together. Do it the way is supposedly happened.....it can't be done, even with a simple tiny archaea cell, that has maybe 250 genes. Do it without any single preassembled part. Just pure physical chemistry. ....... There is a growing wave of people moving away from Neo-Darwinism.


    I actually think quantum mechanics will hold clues for evolutionary biology. The intention of the atom and its affinity to entangle holds clues there.


    Like you have to really think about how complex even just cell division is..there are hundreds of thousands, if not a million little chemical operations going on, each distinct and each would have had to evolve separately, by chance, with no direction, no meaning, and no memory..like think about the very first instruction: divide, which is of itself a collection of thousands of individual chemical steps that would have had to evolve just happenstance, for no reason, and against the very principles of pro-ported just to pull it off would need hundreds of codes of information do this in the right order and this order just happened to come about even though the likelihood of hundreds of perfectly ordered instructions is statistically less probable than there are molecules in the entire Universe. It would have to dictate instructions in a order of magnitude that exceeds even common sense and it would look like hundreds of these types of process>>>, then this, then this, stop, then this, then this, stop.


    Abiogenesis is proto, even before that point of the code was able to even do something, how did the DNA (RNA early earth wtv) even get to the point where it could have actually done something useful with its code, like you can't think in terms of step by step evolution here of structure, like this is proto-structure. I'm talking random random DNA string of code with no order and therefore no ability to produce meaningful structure. Like why in the fluke chance in hell would it just happen to actually have enough of a pattern to actually instruct something to manifest from seemingly no-thing. Like really what was the sequence way down at that root level long before there even was a DNA code to begin with?? I'm talking dividing the RNA, DNA string into an equal version of itself, you have to understand that even that basic operation that occurs inside a cell is more complex in steps than any mechanical machine mankind has ever built. Abiogenesis just says to us, it was fortuitous, you see? Its like ya fucking right, give me a fucking break.


    Chimpazees in a cage don’t just type out Shakespeare if given the chance. …. Its this kind of blind faith in magical chance that has lead to the creation of The Rise of Skywalker and the magical Mary Sue that can do anything, because the plot needs it.


    Structure of the DNA molecule gives proteins their shape. Structure is function. To tell a molecule to make a shape and then to add new information just by tiny changes in the DNA molecule is just not a good enough principle to demonstrate that evolution was possible in a world BEFORE DNA molecules even had a shape and coded sequence to begin with. Like DNA doesn't just hang out in open pools, or in the depths of the ocean just chilling without protection from the elements.


    Actually the more you look into it the more ludicrous the atheist world view actually becomes. Its like you guys are separated from spirit or something, when really you are just inside the paradigm that needed to happen to escape the clutches of the Christian Church as it had a strangle hold on Civilization's framework perception of reality, along with the burgeoning fields of technological flowering that was occurring at the time. Its okay to submit to a higher power, even if you have been taught form childhood there is none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    That entire sequence of events for the development of the flagella relies on inherent direction of order. Apparently there is zero direction in evolution. Directionless, purposeless. Yet several simultaneous mutations are required at the same time and these had to be carried on through generations as they immediately needed to have some kind of benefit.

    Frankly its all bullshit. The entire atheist, purposeless, happenstance is entirely bullshit. If it was so easy to theorize about why haven't researchers actually just done it? Just make it already. Its because its far to complex.

    The flagella is just the tip of the iceberg. The folding shape of proteins is another insurmountable obstacle. DNA doesn't bind as amino acid nucleotides without enzymes. Explain the world before enzymes to make DNA? It’s incredibly complex operation for technicians to even do by forcing these molecules to comply with advanced laboratory techniques, you really believe this totally perfect scenario was playing out on early, UV scorched Earth?? As if all you need are the parts and a car will just assemble itself if given enough time. It wouldn’t happen in a hypothetical world, so how could a place with zilch in the way of molecules with some perfect ability to copy with fecundity aka. DNA without a cell wall...just happened to propagate, how the hell did it even get to that place in the first place? DNA doesn't just go together by itself, it needs other kinds of chemistry for that to happen. Hard to do by teams of people in a lab with the best technology, but it was happening in treacherous nature without any mindful intervention just cause? Hur-dur.

    Information in terms of evolution is about creating new forms more complex forms from less complex forms. If it was so easy why haven't they produced a new species of fruit flies after all these years? Time scales are all off as well. Whales in 10 million years is impossible using the very same principles. Make even a simple bacteria that works, but don't cheat and just mash already available forms together. Do it the way is supposedly happened.....it can't be done, even with a simple tiny archaea cell, that has maybe 250 genes. Do it without any single preassembled part. Just pure physical chemistry. ....... There is a growing wave of people moving away from Neo-Darwinism.


    I actually think quantum mechanics will hold clues for evolutionary biology. The intention of the atom and its affinity to entangle holds clues there.


    Like you have to really think about how complex even just cell division is..there are hundreds of thousands, if not a million little chemical operations going on, each distinct and each would have had to evolve separately, by chance, with no direction, no meaning, and no memory..like think about the very first instruction: divide, which is of itself a collection of thousands of individual chemical steps that would have had to evolve just happenstance, for no reason, and against the very principles of pro-ported just to pull it off would need hundreds of codes of information do this in the right order and this order just happened to come about even though the likelihood of hundreds of perfectly ordered instructions is statistically less probable than there are molecules in the entire Universe. It would have to dictate instructions in a order of magnitude that exceeds even common sense and it would look like hundreds of these types of process>>>, then this, then this, stop, then this, then this, stop.


    Abiogenesis is proto, even before that point of the code was able to even do something, how did the DNA (RNA early earth wtv) even get to the point where it could have actually done something useful with its code, like you can't think in terms of step by step evolution here of structure, like this is proto-structure. I'm talking random random DNA string of code with no order and therefore no ability to produce meaningful structure. Like why in the fluke chance in hell would it just happen to actually have enough of a pattern to actually instruct something to manifest from seemingly no-thing. Like really what was the sequence way down at that root level long before there even was a DNA code to begin with?? I'm talking dividing the RNA, DNA string into an equal version of itself, you have to understand that even that basic operation that occurs inside a cell is more complex in steps than any mechanical machine mankind has ever built. Abiogenesis just says to us, it was fortuitous, you see? Its like ya fucking right, give me a fucking break.


    Chimpazees in a cage don’t just type out Shakespeare if given the chance. …. Its this kind of blind faith in magical chance that has lead to the creation of The Rise of Skywalker and the magical Mary Sue that can do anything, because the plot needs it.


    Structure of the DNA molecule gives proteins their shape. Structure is function. To tell a molecule to make a shape and then to add new information just by tiny changes in the DNA molecule is just not a good enough principle to demonstrate that evolution was possible in a world BEFORE DNA molecules even had a shape and coded sequence to begin with. Like DNA doesn't just hang out in open pools, or in the depths of the ocean just chilling without protection from the elements.


    Actually the more you look into it the more ludicrous the atheist world view actually becomes. Its like you guys are separated from spirit or something, when really you are just inside the paradigm that needed to happen to escape the clutches of the Christian Church as it had a strangle hold on Civilization's framework perception of reality, along with the burgeoning fields of technological flowering that was occurring at the time. Its okay to submit to a higher power, even if you have been taught form childhood there is none.
    Order is a a human notion.

    DNA replication is not "random". If it was, then things that are incapable of replicating would be as prevalent as things that are capable of replicating. Lifeforms that prosper in their environment are especially good at replicating - this is not "random".

    What happens in the universe happens according to the laws of nature - it is meaningless to say that any one event has "purpose" or is "random".

    We only have one instance of nature to compare things to. You are essentially saying "This happened, it could only have been this way, therefore it must have been created with purpose." This is like a puddle thinking that the hole that it is in was created for it.

    There is no evidence that creating something out of nothing is possible. Chimpanzees typing out the works of Shakespeare someday is merely a matter of estimated low probability.

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