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    The man with the plan MasterfulMischief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isha View Post
    Yeah I understand that.

    I do think she's attracted specifically to his SeFi though, for example his pervasive optimism and determination, while more obviously Se than Fi, is really a manifestation of Se in the SEE -- SLEs are generally a suspicious sort.

    As for avoiding typing couples as duals -- I do suspect that Hinata is actually designed that way (though obviously, probably not with knowledge of socionics), and unfortunately her character is not developed as well as many of the other characters in the series.



    That's basically the same as my reasoning. Two others that I know of have typed her as IEI but I don't think it really makes sense.

    She might not be a very clear character -- her character didn't seem to be developed much (she was pretty much there in the beginning only as a love-struck tween girl, which I don't think is consistent with her character during the rest of the series, although obviously there were some clues like the focus on knowledge, etc.) until the Chunin exams. Perhaps it would actually make more sense to type pre-Chunin-exam Sakura and post-Chunin-exam Sakura separately.

    I think her real skill as a ninja might be more in the clear-headed perceptiveness, which could be evidence of an extroverted orientation. Her clear-sightedness even contrasts with other genjutsu type ninjas who often seem to be sleepier/dreamier even while they are alert, like Kurenai or Shikamaru.



    In contrast to his team-mate Chouji, who I think is Si-leading, Shikamaru doesn't really seem Si-leading himself. Shikamaru seems to have a predominantly "mental" focus and, while is obviously a skilled shinobi, seems somewhat more in-tune with his plots and strategies than with his physical needs. When spending time with Chouji, while they both appear to be doing the same sort of thing, like lying on the grass, Chouji is preoccupied by eating crisps or is captivated by butterflies, while Shikamaru appears to be daydreaming (I don't think this is said explicitly, but it is my inference).

    His "bothersome" comments is used in a few ways -- it's true that he doesn't like using energy when he can help it, but this is as easily attributed to IP temperament as it is Si-leading. He also uses it in relation to very emotional (high Fe, I'd say) situations and antics, like those of Ino (who I think is EIE), which may point to Fe-PoLR.

    So, I don't think SLI is necessarily bad, but I think ILI is probably better.
    I agree with most of this. I think most of our disagreement on shikamarus type comes from what exactly is going on when he is chilling out (which when he is not in battle is the majority of the time). but I have to agree yours probably makes more sense given that he is strong in Ni, so if he is going to be fit into model A at all it would have to be as an ILI.

    And yeah when considering Sakura I pretty much just looked at part 2, since like you said she had very little character development and definitely had a major shift in her maturity going into part 2 for whatever reason. You didn't really see her strong functions early because kakashi/naruto/sasuke were doing most of the work.

    As for naruto/hinata being designed as duals, this seems to happen a lot in stories, probably because they are based off real life examples. Also, our conception of love is someone who will love you for your strengths (w/e they are) and not be bothered by your weaknesses (w/e they are). If that doesn't some up duality and only duality (*cough* slightly activation *cough*) then I don't know what does.

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    The man with the plan MasterfulMischief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isha View Post
    I admit that, if I were to write a couple into a story, I would probably even deliberately make them duals unless I planned for their relationship to disintegrate.

    I forgot to ask before -- what of Jiraiya as LIE?

    I'd not really thought of his type much, except to wonder if there was some socionic link between the Jiraiya/Tsunade/Orochimaru triad and the Naruto/Sakura/Sasuke triad.
    haha it's funny how you always pick out the ones I'm not completely sure about :tongue:

    but basically jiraiya seems Te leading (he is constantly gathering information[on akatsuki, orochimaru, research for his novels, w/e]) which is kind of weak I admit but he also seems to have an Fe role that he uses regularly. I picked LIE > LSE because he also seems to clearly be a positivist ("I think the day will come when people can truly understand one another"). Also he seems to embody the entj joker vibe (when they have their role on) but you can tell that is not his preferred/usual mode of operating, which is much more serious and thoughtful. Also he seems aggressor seeking in the way he tries to flirt with tsunade when she is first introduced.

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    The man with the plan MasterfulMischief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isha View Post
    That sounds reasonable, though I'm not quite convinced. :tongue:

    The constant gathering of information is also somewhat different to that of Sakura, as different as a spy and a researcher, really. Jiraiya's skills in information gathering may be better attributed to sensory awareness, or even to Fi in some cases as he seems to rely on his contacts as much as observation.

    Otherwise, I think its an interesting suggestion. I think I'll need to re-read that part of the manga.
    yeah, like I said even I think the reasoning is pretty weak. I just don't see anything about jiraiya that immediately jumps out at me as strong in any particular direction. But I still do believe that he is information gathering is Te just manifested differently than sakura (obviously jiraiya is passed the point of being able to learn much of value about ninjutsu from books/teachers). Te deals with the external activity of objects, the how, what and where of events, activity or work, behaviour, movement, and actions which seems like it would be the main function being used in traditional information gathering (at least when targeting organizations). Also he seems very Ni in the sense he always has one eye to the future and tends to be the one to warn about either upcoming trouble or taking active steps to stop that trouble with a perfect idea of the time frame.

    but agreed I probably should just go back and read his key parts again

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    Forgive the slight necromancy but this is a subject I am interested in discussing. I prefer bumping this thread (seeing those who have interacted in it are still around) than to create a new one.

    I have some questions for you:


    Why Itachi IEI and not ILI?

    What do you think of Sasori as ESI?

    What do you think of Orochimaru as ILE?

    Could you envision Kabuto as IEI?

    Could Sakura be IEE, attracted to his dual SLI (sasuke)?

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    Humorous portrayals of LII and ESE couples often show them constantly bickering, with the ESE complaining a lot and the LII just putting up with it. Pinky and the Brain is a good example. Maybe Hidan is an ESE?
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    Pinky and the Brain is a good example.
    Naaahh, they are some Beta Dual or Activity pair; I think I've heard LSI-IEI for them.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    So we've got...
    Naruto: SEE
    Hinata: IEI
    Gaara: SLI
    Sasuke: EMO
    And I don't care about the Akatsuki.

    We still have to type these people.
    Sakura: Se > Si
    Shikamaru: introverted L
    Sai: ASS
    Ino: Fe > Fi
    Lee: ???
    Neji: introverted L
    Kiba: SLE
    Temari: extroverted L
    Kankurou: ???

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    The man with the plan MasterfulMischief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Forgive the slight necromancy but this is a subject I am interested in discussing. I prefer bumping this thread (seeing those who have interacted in it are still around) than to create a new one.

    I have some questions for you:


    Why Itachi IEI and not ILI?

    What do you think of Sasori as ESI?

    What do you think of Orochimaru as ILE?

    Could you envision Kabuto as IEI?

    Could Sakura be IEE, attracted to his dual SLI (sasuke)?
    I also have orochimaru typed as ILE as well. He fits the whole ILE "mad scientist" stereotype pretty well, also the Fi polr giving the way he tortures/experiments on his subjects/prisoners. Fi polr is really played up, and also his dream of learning all the jutsus in the world is framed as largely pointless/waste of time, a good example of an Alpha villian in a Gamma anime. Conflictorship also works really well with Sasuke imo.

    Sasori as ESI could make sense, that's prob my number 2 choice. Regardless he is obviously Fi valuing, seems logical but ESIs can come across that way a lot too. hmmm thinking about it now maybe ESI does work a little better. his Fi lead manifests not only with his whole parent-dolls/chiyo thing but also the fact he hated orochimaru for defecting from akatsuki and really wanted to be the one to kill him himself. Also his frustration with deiadara making them late because of how it made him come across is related to Fi/rationality.

    Itachi as IEI over ILI simply because he seems ethical >Logical in not only his values, but his general strengths (his real strengths seem to be influencing/understanding people as well as being able to predict the future, which again with the people aspect seems more IEI than ILI. Itachi is one of those characters that is obviously not what kishimoto would have us believe at this point in the manga, so it will be interesting to see how he ends up. Also, Kisame seems SLE and duality seems perfect for that.

    Kabuto I haven't really thought about too much, but I guess IEI makes sense (maybe SEI makes a little more sense). He looks up to Orochimarus Se it seems (even if its super-ego) for example he says when orochimaru is waiting to do the body-transfer technique with Sasuke that he can't believe Orochimaru is alive through all the pain from the disease, and then he states that that is reason why he can't leave his side. The whole interest in medicine/medical ninjutsu points to caregiver/Si like behaviour and he is invaluable to orochimaru in that respect. It seems a lot like Kabuto is responsible for Oro's Id needs (he is also Oro's only friend rly).

    Sakura I find so hard to be confident in any typing for some reason. I will say that she is probably an ethical type the more I think about it. I am still convinced Sasuke is ESI.

    Fear of Sleep: That could be the case I guess, but I am more confident in Hidan being SEE than kakuzu being LII (tho I like both typings). But also they are constantly bickering and actually dislike each other, the only reason they were paired together was because Kakuzu kept killing all his partners so they paired him with Hidan because he can't be killed. Kakuzu is always super annoyed at Hidans impulsivity (#1 SEE weakness) and also his need to do his little ritual to his god after he kills someone (he's basically exactly like naruto if you replaced his loyalty to his friends with his loyalty to his religion, that's how his Fi manifests itself).

    But then again I have a very hard time picking out Male ESEs even though the females seem the easiest of everyone for me to type so take from this what you will.

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