What the Te devil?

[crazedrat]

Fine

here I'll ask you more specifc questions.

DS weaker than PoLR.

For the sake of this argument.. yes, the DS is opposite the primary function, and this implies it must be the weakest function.

I don't want to get into details like the PoLR is stronger than the DS, but weaker than everything else.

Only sometimes is this true. There are cases where the polr is stronger than the demonstrative function.

The polr is part of the superego. The superego is opposite the id. By saying polr is the weakest function it implies the superego is inherently weaker than the id. Where did this bias against the superego come from? It comes from model A.

In model A information moves readily in function blocks like Ij/Ep or Ip/Ej.

It's also considered easier to move from Ni to Ne than from Ni to Si, etc.

Where do these rules come from? They are completely arbitrary. Any justification you give for them I can give a counter justification for the opposite rule being true.

There are cases where these rules are inverted.

There are types whose function blocks are all Ij/Ip and Ej/Ep, like a Ni/Ti INFp, and who have the superego dominant over the id.

This is basically what subtype was for a while. Except it was never explained.


I'm not sure what you mean by forward moving info-metablism.

I'm referring to the flow of information which occurs in model A which I described above. The flow itself is fixed by a set of rules.

I think it makes sense that the id comes out stronger than the super-ego for the simple reason that they are somewhat related to the ego.

What? No. That makes no sense at all. In what way exactly are they "somewhat related" moreso than say the dominant and the role function? Why is Ni & Si less alike than Ni & Ne?

But also, if there is an opposing relationship of strength between dual elements (e.g. base-Se implies DS-Ni) then the id must be stronger than the super-ego since the super-ego is suppressed by the ego.
The ego also repressed the id. The ego balanced the id and superego. Nothing about the ego specifically favors the id over the superego.

and you had mentioned there should be 16 instead of 8 blocks?
Right.

.

[Azeroffs]

I think it makes sense that the id comes out stronger than the super-ego for the simple reason that they are somewhat related to the ego.

What? No. That makes no sense at all. In what way exactly are they "somewhat related" moreso than say the dominant and the role function? Why is Ni & Si less alike than Ni & Ne?

abstract, sensual, impartial, partial

people who focus on abstract things are going to be less aware of sensual things and vice versa. people who focus on impartial judgment are less aware of partial judgment and vice versa. Ni and Ne are both abstract, so the abstract person is going to be more aware of them than Si and Se. Seems pretty basic.

The ego also repressed the id. The ego balanced the id and superego. Nothing about the ego specifically favors the id over the superego.

This seems to be the main point in question. Does the ego really repress the id? I was under the impression that it was just disregarded, and not suppressed. There is no reason for it to be suppressed.

But basically what it seems like you're saying is that The ego is strong, and so the super-id is weak, but the super-ego and id are arbitrary.

If you think that the ego suppresses the id, that makes sense. Would you agree that the id would always be stronger if it wasn't suppressed by the ego?

In model A information moves readily in function blocks like Ij/Ep or Ip/Ej.

It's also considered easier to move from Ni to Ne than from Ni to Si, etc.

Where do these rules come from? They are completely arbitrary. Any justification you give for them I can give a counter justification for the opposite rule being true.

I'm inclined to agree with you here.

There are types whose function blocks are all Ij/Ip and Ej/Ep, like a Ni/Ti INFp, and who have the superego dominant over the id.

Still donno what you mean here and by information flow. I've heard that information flows from 1 to 2 to 3 etc from a source but there didn't seem to be any significance to it. So what is the significance of 'information flow'?

and you had mentioned there should be 16 instead of 8 blocks?
Right.

why?

[crazedrat]

abstract, sensual, impartial, partial

people who focus on abstract things are going to be less aware of sensual things and vice versa. people who focus on impartial judgment are less aware of partial judgment and vice versa.

On the same note people who are Ip process that format more easily than Ep. You fail to see the point entirely and then get lost in semantics. Like the word partial qualitatively compared with impartial and sensual has any meaning in a debate on information metabolism. What a waste of time.


This seems to be the main point in question. Does the ego really repress the id? I was under the impression that it was just disregarded, and not suppressed. There is no reason for it to be suppressed.

More semantic bullshit. Great.
The ego controls your impulses.

But basically what it seems like you're saying is that The ego is strong, and so the super-id is weak, but the super-ego and id are arbitrary.

Pretty much. I actually want to take it one step farther and say model A overvalues the ego. A person can be dominated by their id for example. Think of a drug addict and compare that with a person who controls their impulses and thinks before acting.

If you think that the ego suppresses the id, that makes sense. Would you agree that the id would always be stronger if it wasn't suppressed by the ego?

Of course.

Still donno what you mean here and by information flow. I've heard that information flows from 1 to 2 to 3 etc from a source but there didn't seem to be any significance to it. So what is the significance of 'information flow'?

It determines what's considered strong vs. weak. In model A the ego is where information starts. It flows toward its ultimate destination which is the DS function. Yes you can get into semantics about strong and weak.

why?
Reread the part on Ij/Ip blocks.

.

[Azeroffs]

abstract, sensual, impartial, partial

people who focus on abstract things are going to be less aware of sensual things and vice versa. people who focus on impartial judgment are less aware of partial judgment and vice versa.

On the same note people who are Ip process that format more easily than Ep. You fail to see the point entirely and then get lost in semantics. What a waste of time.

Ease of process-ability doesn't imply strength of awareness. N types are most aware of N elements. IP types are not most aware of Pi elements.

This seems to be the main point in question. Does the ego really repress the id? I was under the impression that it was just disregarded, and not suppressed. There is no reason for it to be suppressed.

More semantic bullshit. Great.
The ego controls your impulses.

No, disregarded and suppressed are important distinctions. If something is disregarded, it doesn't mean it is weak, while if it is suppressed it does.

You can pretend that the words don't mean what they mean if you want.

But basically what it seems like you're saying is that The ego is strong, and so the super-id is weak, but the super-ego and id are arbitrary.

Pretty much. I actually want to take it one step farther and say model A overvalues the ego. A person can be dominated by their id for example. Think of a drug addict and compare that with a person who controls their impulses and thinks before acting.

But you agree that regardless, the ego is still strong?



This discussion is interesting me less and less.. Obviously you've deviated from model-A. I'd need to hear a more complete explanation of your thoughts. You can't expect me to try to build everything from the ground up without having really any idea where you're coming from especially since you're not willing to give a thorough explanation and more interested in trying to insult me.

[crazedrat]

Just forget this. I didn't explain this perfectly which is why I avoided discussing it in the first place.

[krieger]

Why? all its saying is that Te egos focus on information in a more objective way, whereas merry types are more subjective in their assertions.

You'd be surprised how often this turns out to work the opposite way in practice.

No one can expect to be considered an objective thinker by default. Claims to objectivity have to be justified. Socionics should not challenge such an elementary principle.