Stackings and Relationship Compatibility

[marooned]

i find this really quite confusing because the dominant instinct is oft described as an area that is over-emphasized in some at least borderline neurotic way.

It appears that the degree to which our instinctual drive's impulses control our lives is subject to the same kind of energy as our Enneagram point. For example, we can experience our drives and passions mildly or intensely; we can feel some sense of control or very little control at all; and in addition, we can either embrace our particular instinctual drive or act totally against it. It is important to note that whether embracing the drive as an asset or viewing it as a liability it is still ever present and influential.

More specifically, our dominant instinctual drive is, in actuality, our area of greatest weakness. Thus, when our sense of "survival" is threatened something has triggered whatever "button" happens to relate not only to our Enneagram point but, more important, also to our instinctual drive. The fixation then becomes even more severe as we take on the additional fears of the instinctual drive. The important factor here is that the triggering element of the fixation is the instinctual drive's issue. Nevertheless, the flavor will always be that of the Enneagram type, as the fixation and the drive are interactive, linked, and always related to the Enneagram type.

In the context of the "false self" or personality, it is the instinctual drive that supposedly protects the survival of the Enneagram point and is called to the front lines when in stress. However, since the dominant instinctual drive is actually one's "weak link," its entrance in times of stress may ultimately produce no "protection" at all to one's survival, and in fact, may exacerbate the level of stress and ultimate fixation.

The real question is, how do we express anger, fear and desire? How do we experience illness and what types of illnesses do we have? How do we act when we're happy or sad? As an example, ask yourself how you like to spend your time. Do you tend to make sure your own needs are met and satisfied with the essentials of life (self-preservation)? Or does your attention go to being in the company of others and, if so, how many others, and/or do you need to be in service of others (social)? Or instead do you find that your ultimate expression of self is linked to the company of one significant other in an intimate and profound way, and that no matter where you are or what you are doing, you are always in search of that beloved special person (sexual)?

from https://www.katherinefauvre.com/subtypes

is for instance sp blind the best to balance out sp first or is sp second? the second instinct is sometimes described as the most stable one.

i often throw around different stacks for myself largely because i find everything i read about the stacks to be kinda contradictory of other things i read about them. it often depends on who is describing them and what their "take" is. my sp as an example is out of control... it's a combo of the "sp+" with over-spending and indulgence and the sp- with neglect of health matters like a bottomless well so overwhelming i can't even begin. it's "unhealthy" and i am not sure if it is "neurotic" as i feel like i don't feel panicked enough about it. so frankly sp- from someone else that is stable feels like the best thing for it, but sp may well be MY first instinct because there's a lot of "activity" in the sp realm even if it's pure chaos.

it's hard to think of this in a "duality" way when the enneagram is kinda about what is "wrong" with us. and when the model has this stress emphasis. the over-involved first instinct goes especially bad under stress. it can't help someone with the same instinct in the blind position in that case - it can't even help itself. is it a weakness or is it a strength? it depends.

is the blind spot some neglected area like the DS function that needs help, or is it simply an area that is balanced and stable because it ISN'T a fixation?

[Aria]

i often throw around different stacks for myself largely because i find everything i read about the stacks to be kinda contradictory of other things i read about them.

Exactly, and to me it seems like people's life experiences and relation to their instincts can vary so much that often theory can be thrown out the window, even if there are observable trends.

the over-involved first instinct goes especially bad under stress. it can't help someone with the same instinct in the blind position in that case - it can't even help itself. is it a weakness or is it a strength? it depends.

I've often found I learn the most about Sp from people who are Sp-second, and that my Sp-first friends worry about it in a way that doesn't actually seem productive (sometimes, not always of course).

*Edit: case in point, my mom's So/Sp and dad is Sp/So. They are both very focused on Sp concerns and I would say the reason the household ran so smoothly was because of my mom's amazing skills. Truly a strength for her. I remember my dad as anxious and obsessive compulsive about Sp things, which I think bred a certain neuroticism in me over Sp. If the "sign" thing is correct, he'd definitely be Sp-. So I feel like the actual skills I learned from mom, and the neuroses from him.

[Adam Strange]

I've often found I learn the most about Sp from people who are Sp-second, and that my Sp-first friends worry about it in a way that doesn't actually seem productive (sometimes, not always of course).

I always thought that the first instinct is the one that you need and worry about, the second instinct is the one that you have mastered and are competent at, and the third instinct is the one that you ignore?

[Aria]

I always thought that the first instinct is the one that you need and worry about, the second instinct is the one that you have mastered and are competent at, and the third instinct is the one that you ignore?

That's my understanding as well. I do know people who seem pretty good at their first instinct, and sometimes life makes you focus on your blind spot unnaturally, but the idea seems to hold up in general.

[myresearch]

*Edit: case in point, my mom's So/Sp and dad is Sp/So. They are both very focused on Sp concerns and I would say the reason the household ran so smoothly was because of my mom's amazing skills. Truly a strength for her. I remember my dad as anxious and obsessive compulsive about Sp things, which I think bred a certain neuroticism in me over Sp. If the "sign" thing is correct, he'd definitely be Sp-. So I feel like the actual skills I learned from mom, and the neuroses from him.

Do you know your and your father's so signs?

[Aria]

Do you know your and your father's so signs?

I don't, it's too hard to say for sure. Not super familiar with the + and - criteria, but I think mine used to be pretty positive (+), a clear natural strength, but has gotten negative over the years as I've become more mistrustful of people.

[myresearch]

i find this really quite confusing because the dominant instinct is oft described as an area that is over-emphasized in some at least borderline neurotic way.

is for instance sp blind the best to balance out sp first or is sp second? the second instinct is sometimes described as the most stable one.

These are true and I agree to this, that's why I said both first and third instincts are neurotic on my prior post. They are neurotic in different ways though, hence one is first and the other is third. You cannot balance someone's neuroticism with a balanced use of it. If something is on the extreme end of the spectrum, its dual is on the opposite extreme of the spectrum not in the middle of it. Ofcourse saying that we can say both extreme ends are unhealthy and middle is healthy, however, that doesn't change the relation of those.

it's hard to think of this in a "duality" way when the enneagram is kinda about what is "wrong" with us.

We can say every kind of filter, cognition style is there as a survival mechanism. What is wrong with us generally dictates our relationships more than anything else.

and when the model has this stress emphasis. the over-involved first instinct goes especially bad under stress. it can't help someone with the same instinct in the blind position in that case - it can't even help itself. is it a weakness or is it a strength? it depends.

Why do you think first instinct cannot help last one? Can you explain by giving an example?

is the blind spot some neglected area like the DS function that needs help, or is it simply an area that is balanced and stable because it ISN'T a fixation?

I don't know @inumbra, I get pretty fixated on my DS function as well

As I said I think both first and third instinct are neurotic in a complementing way. However, that neuroticism doesn't alone make this duality a duality. If opposite stacks get dualized in other words, if they start to communicate with each other via using their second instinct, then they can push each other on the middle ground.

I see the second instinct as a tool to merge these different worlds together, hence each partner being more open to other person's view since it is transmitted in a way that they can understand.

For example, so/sp/sx's sp is supervised by so, hence that second sp carries some so info. Its dual carries sx info, since second instinct is balanced in both, they are more open to receive it via that.

[marooned]

I don't know @inumbra, I get pretty fixated on my DS function as well

that's bc it's a neglected valued area that needs help. the blind spot is described as an area of no concern often... it's like this is something one doesn't care about and doesn't want to be around... it's ignored as an area of no importance. and i think it's bc maybe we don't need all the instincts? we all have the instinct to survive as living creatures... sp/so/sx is like putting light through a prism... none of us lack the white light (the pure instinct to survive)... all of this is how we express it and where we start getting neurotic about it...

it's different than socionics bc there isn't anything wrong with any socionics type really - it's a matter of strength and weakness. but enneagram system began as self-help of a spiritual kind because it's trying to point people to how they are lying to themselves and therefore getting lost on some false journey that is actually UNTRUE to themselves. an integrated enneagram type still has the flavor of the type, but has transcended the neuroticism of the type and so really it's like they have returned to the white light, to just being a full human no longer lost in some ego-maze. was kinda my understanding?


i really need to think about this all more... because i'm more confused about the structure than you are so everything i say and ask will reflect that...


PS i really agree with this

What is wrong with us generally dictates our relationships more than anything else.

i mean i don't know what to do with it, but it's kinda true.

Why do you think first instinct cannot help last one? Can you explain by giving an example?

well i will use the sp instinct... can someone who say deprives themselves of everything (sp first, neurotic) help someone who doesn't care about sp (sp-last). it's like i have developed anorexia, i will help you to not consume food and beverage as well??? although haha this happened with my grandma who is sp first and she controlled her husband's food, which may have saved his life... but i think he's sp first as well. lol

so actually they are two sp people who helped each other. he LOVES eating all the time. she has an eating disorder. pair them and she still has an eating disorder but he is not allowed to eat all the bad food all the time. aaaah.

[myresearch]

that's bc it's a neglected valued area that needs help. the blind spot is described as an area of no concern often... it's like this is something one doesn't care about and doesn't want to be around... it's ignored as an area of no importance. and i think it's bc maybe we don't need all the instincts? we all have the instinct to survive as living creatures... sp/so/sx is like putting light through a prism... none of us lack the white light (the pure instinct to survive)... all of this is how we express it and where we start getting neurotic about it...

It is stated in many enneagram articles you can check and find it anywhere even in the article you shared, they suggest to use it all in order to get balanced and healthy and we need it all.

This being survival mechanism makes this more important than cognition in terms of relations.

Partners who prone to flight as a survival mechanism probably cannot last, same goes for fight-fight or freeze-freeze couples.