Democratic Presidential Debate

[Grendel]

Why does the right wing always get so triggered?

Half of our national ills are caused by the fact that we've been so open, Saudi Arabia and Israel now own our ass and none of the political class is accountable to our problems anymore.

There won't be "American refugees" or an "American Diaspora" the next time a war happens. Americans are such a hated group in every culture that anyone trying to flee anywhere will just get the same kind of treatment Koningsburg women and children got when the Russians charged back in for vengeance. We'll have nowhere to flee to if this country collapses. It won't matter if an American was "one of the good ones" who were kind to our own migrants, or even if we suddenly became totally pacifistic for the next 40 years until our destruction. No one will remember that. They'll remember only the sins of our fathers, in which we ourselves had no say.

Full autarky and militarization are probably the only way to prevent a future in nuclear fire or as China's slaves at this point. Africa, which never had the time to be colonialist, is now having infrastructure built by the same people who will destroy us.
There's no reason to be giving the benefit of the doubt to more people whose interests don't necessarily align with ours, while pretending it's in our self-interest. We fucked up when we went as far as the Caribbean. Every major atrocity in history is the result of incompatible cultures clashing because humans can't leave well enough alone and keep to their own soil for ten damn seconds.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Half of our national ills are caused by the fact that we've been so open, Saudi Arabia and Israel now own our ass and none of the political class is accountable to our problems anymore.

There won't be "American refugees" or an "American Diaspora" the next time a war happens. Americans are such a hated group in every culture that anyone trying to flee anywhere will just get the same kind of treatment Koningsburg women and children got when the Russians charged back in for vengeance. We'll have nowhere to flee to if this country collapses. It won't matter if an American was "one of the good ones" who were kind to our own migrants, or even if we suddenly became totally pacifistic for the next 40 years until our destruction. No one will remember that. They'll remember only the sins of our fathers, in which we ourselves had no say.

Full autarky and militarization are probably the only way to prevent a future in nuclear fire or as China's slaves at this point. Africa, which never had the time to be colonialist, is now having infrastructure built by the same people who will destroy us.
There's no reason to be giving the benefit of the doubt to more people whose interests don't necessarily align with ours, while pretending it's in our self-interest. We fucked up when we went as far as the Caribbean. Every major atrocity in history is the result of incompatible cultures clashing because humans can't leave well enough alone and keep to their own soil for ten damn seconds.

Dude, most refugees today are refugees because of the U.S. No shit the U.S. is widely hated, and with good reason. And S.A. and Israel certainly don’t “own” the States either; it’s just that our oligarchs have certain agreements with the oligarchs of those countries which they’d prefer to keep intact.

F.D.R. and Abdul-Aziz Ibn Saud made an agreement in the 40s when the former was returning from the Yalta Conference. The U.S. would protect the Saudi crown, and in exchange, S.A. would co-operate with the U.S. on anything it asked, and, of course, provide it with oil. This agreement has remained since then. Saudi Arabia was made into a puppet state of the U.S. in exchange for security — not the other way around.

I’m less familiar with Israel’s history. But it’s delusional to think that Israel puppets the U.S. Israel does what the States want (namely subsidizing the American “defense” industry and providing a more amiable ally than S.A. has been in the region), and in return receives special protection.

[Grendel]

F.D.R. and Abdul-Aziz Ibn Saud made an agreement in the 40s when the former was returning from the Yalta Conference. The U.S. would protect the Saudi crown, and in exchange, S.A. would co-operate with the U.S. on anything it asked, and, of course, provide it with oil. This agreement has remained since then. Saudi Arabia was made into a puppet state of the U.S. in exchange for security — not the other way around.

Most of US's oil comes from Canada now. The Petrodollar deal is now directed towards protecting the Saudis' monopoly on the local oil trade. If someone trades oil for a different currency than the USD, US attacks them, because another currency being able to bypass the exchange for US dollars now hurts the value of the USD, and our currency monopoly is threatened. The Euro was actually somewhat more valuable than USD for a while; that's why Iraq happened.

It's not about receiving oil, it's about denial-of-access to other traders so they're forced to go through an exchange for USD at some point, because there's no gold left and our money is entirely fake otherwise. Big difference. Think of it as the equivalent of killing off anyone who refuses to trade with us, rather than stomping in and plundering for the bare resources like most war narratives would have you think.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Most of US's oil comes from Canada now. The Petrodollar deal is now directed towards protecting the Saudis' monopoly on the local oil trade. If someone trades oil for a different currency than the USD, US attacks them, because another currency being able to bypass the exchange for US dollars now hurts the value of the USD, and our currency monopoly is threatened. The Euro was actually somewhat more valuable than USD for a while; that's why Iraq happened.

It's not about receiving oil, it's about denial-of-access to other traders so they're forced to go through an exchange for USD at some point, because there's no gold left and our money is entirely fake otherwise. Big difference. Think of it as the equivalent of killing off anyone who refuses to trade with us, rather than stomping in and plundering for the bare resources like most war narratives would have you think.

You’re correct, of course. I was thinking of the agreement at the time, because the context in which I learned of it had to do with America in the world wars period. At the time the Western Allies were attempting to secure access to oil in the Middle East (among other things, e.g. naval access, regional influence, etc.), and this had a lot to do with the partition of the Ottoman Empire and formations of the Arab states left behind.

But yes, the petrodollar has been more of an interest for the U.S. than the actual oil itself for a good time now. It’s 2:30 AM and I’m dead-tired right now so I’ll chalk that up to my ommission.

[mfckrz]

Dude, most refugees today are refugees because of the U.S.

Most are here because of NGO & Catholic charity human trafficker networks, and because they want free shit.

[xerx]

Half of our national ills are caused by the fact that we've been so open, Saudi Arabia and Israel now own our ass and none of the political class is accountable to our problems anymore.

There won't be "American refugees" or an "American Diaspora" the next time a war happens. Americans are such a hated group in every culture that anyone trying to flee anywhere will just get the same kind of treatment Koningsburg women and children got when the Russians charged back in for vengeance. We'll have nowhere to flee to if this country collapses. It won't matter if an American was "one of the good ones" who were kind to our own migrants, or even if we suddenly became totally pacifistic for the next 40 years until our destruction. No one will remember that. They'll remember only the sins of our fathers, in which we ourselves had no say.

Full autarky and militarization are probably the only way to prevent a future in nuclear fire or as China's slaves at this point. Africa, which never had the time to be colonialist, is now having infrastructure built by the same people who will destroy us.
There's no reason to be giving the benefit of the doubt to more people whose interests don't necessarily align with ours, while pretending it's in our self-interest. We fucked up when we went as far as the Caribbean. Every major atrocity in history is the result of incompatible cultures clashing because humans can't leave well enough alone and keep to their own soil for ten damn seconds.

America's national ills are caused by the fact that it's open for bribery. Other Western countries that are open to new ideas are doing fine; they have different sets of problems, but none of them are related to foreign lobbies exerting control.

As for the refugee scenario, you'd be surprised by how many people do in fact give a shit about people -- including Americans -- fleeing their homes.