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Thread: What the heck is Ni ...

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    Angry What the heck is Ni ...

    1) Intuition of time?

    2) Beleifs?

    3) Internal version of seeing possibilities?

    4) internal dynamics of fields

    5) Bottom up concepts....

    6) people with N who dont like groups of people...

    I see a lot of conflicting descriptions.....

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    First i think it is important to say that it is NOT thinking.

    Even though this article is written by an "INFJ" I think it is a fairly good description of how it works. I have written how it works for me all over the forum but tbh it is exhausting to do so on command. I also realize only a few people reading, what I write about it, will actually understand what I am talking about which kind of makes it worth it but only when I feel inspired to do so. Making fun of Ni is easy because, like Fi, there is little understanding of the function so people come up with all kinds of wacky ideas of how it works. Ni is really very efficient if you allow it to work as it is intended. Over analysis, getting stuck thinking about a situation is what makes Ni less accurate in my perception. Thinking (Ti) too much is what leads to self doubt because it overshadows the intuitive impressions which can turn something that was very clear and simple into a complicated mess.

    How Introverted Intuition Works

    Introverted intuition is a perceiving function that focuses its energy on thoughts, ideas, and concepts that may reveal something in the future. It analyzes the past and present and connects dots to (often) accurately reveal to the Ni user a “vision” or perception of what is to come. People with introverted intuition often have gut feelings that are uncannily accurate. They are excellent at spotting trends or patterns to form a prediction of what may be. It sounds very mystical and maybe psychic to some, but it’s really just how the Ni dominant brain works.
    Dario Nardi, an award-winning UCLA professor and expert in the field of neuroscience, has this to say about the Ni dominant brain:

    “The Ni types often show a whole-brain, zen-like pattern. This pattern occurs when all regions of the neocortex are in synch and dominated by brain waves that are medium-low frequency and very high-amplitude….What is this zen state like? When presented with a problem, the Ni types seek to harness all neocortex regions in order to “realize” an answer. Imagine a troop of blind men trying to identify a secret object by touch. One man feels a trunk and says, “tree”; another detects four legs and says “table”; a third feels tusks and says “boar”. Like the blind men, each region offers a different perspective, and a zen-like synchronous state allows the person to reconcile various perspectives to arrive at a best-fit answer (an elephant).”

    Nardi goes on to say that Ni types easily show a zen state when tasked to envision the future. This is where INTJs and INFJs truly shine. They scan through all the information they’ve gathered in their brain, picking up little pieces here and there that may have been discarded by others, and form what is often a surprisingly accurate prediction of what is to be. These predictions can be unsettling to others, and even the Ni user themselves.

    For me personally, Ni reveals insights and revelations about people that seem to come out of the blue. Like anyone, I’ll mess up sometimes and misread something or someone. However, being Ni dominant means we are always trying to think of the “big picture” and put together a future plan or idea composed of all the bits of sensory information you’re giving us. For INFJs our big picture is usually more people or philosophically oriented, for INTJs it’s usually more idea or systems oriented.

    More here:
    http://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2015...ted-intuition/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Why all the things in my list then ? Why were all of them associated with Ni .... ?
    -Slava

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    Why all the things in my list then ? Why were all of them associated with Ni .... ?
    Because people like to theorize about things they don't understand, mind, spirit, nature, the universe, etc... Sometimes they have good or interesting insights which lead to deeper understanding, sometimes it just leads to more confusion. For example having a good imagination or fantasizing is often attributed to Ni but lots of people fantasize and have a good imagination. My EII-Ne sister fantasizes more than me. I think my ESE sister fantasizes a lot too, in a different way (she is always coming up with some "plan" and has big dreams to follow). I might look like I am just fantasizing when something completely different is happening inside my head. My teachers would write to my mom about me zoning out or daydreaming but in hindsight I don't believe that is what I was doing. I was taking in the information I was being taught differently than some of the other kids. I was an A student without really trying.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    I believe that if you have to define a function, it must be defined in the context of another function....

    ie...

    Ti of Ti = a -> b -> c = a -> c
    Ti of Fi = a < b < c = a < c

    Ne of Se = External statics of objects....
    Ne of Ne = Internal statics of objects....

    F of.... values of..........

    ............

    and so on...



    Or something like that... it gets very confusing...
    -Slava

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    I believe that if you have to define a function, it must be defined in the context of another function....

    ie...

    Ti of Ti = a -> b -> c = a -> c
    Ti of Fi = a < b < c = a < c

    Ne of Se = External statics of objects....
    Ne of Ne = Internal statics of objects....

    F of.... values of..........

    ............

    and so on...



    Or something like that... it gets very confusing...
    Now say that using your words. The way you say this is like a foreign language to those who are not as familiar with different aspects of the theory. Give an example of this working in real life. You can make a situation up if you don't have enough experience.

    Edit: I was not knocking Ti ftr. People with strong Ti know how to use it to their best advantage and are just as efficient with its use as others are with their lead function, I believe.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Now say that using your words. The way you say this is like a foreign language to those who are not as familiar with different aspects of the theory. Give an example of this working in real life. You can make a situation up if you don't have enough experience.

    Edit: I was not knocking Ti ftr. People with strong Ti know how to use it to their best advantage and are just as efficient with its use as others are with their lead function, I believe.
    Ne = Perception of... (Like or as ? ...)

    Se = Style of...

    Te= knowledge of....

    Fe = love of...

    Ni = beliefs of...

    Si = aesthetics of...

    Ti = math of..

    Fi = values of..


    Something like this... when you define a function it must always be in the context of another function or type......


    Example...

    Fi of ENTP = values technology, values debate....
    Te of ENTP = computer programming, concepts...

    Ti of Fi ... a < b < c = a < c

    Ti of Ti ... a -> b -> c = a -> c

    Ne of Se ... The volley ball looks like basket ball...



    Relativistic Socionics....
    Last edited by SlavaPHP; 04-14-2017 at 07:46 PM.
    -Slava

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    Ne = Perception of...

    Se = Style of...

    Te= knowledge of....

    Fe = love of...

    Ni = beliefs of...

    Si = aesthetics of...

    Ti = math of..

    Fi = values of..


    Something like this... when you define a function it must always be in the context of another function or type......


    Example...

    Fi of ENTP = values technology, values debate....

    Ti of Fi ... a < b < c = a < c

    Ti of Ti ... a -> b -> c = a -> c
    Ok, I see where you are going with this. Thanks for clarifying.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    After examining conclusions made by ILI and me I must say that I can not be without it. I can caught myself thinking about same things but from different perspective.
    What SLEs tend to lack and want is internal harmony. Maybe it is bit of internal harmony. Knowledge to fulfill yourself.

    For me Ne is having some kind of connection to external. Therefore Ni (possibly) refers to internal state.

    So Ni bases are born in world as some sort of advisers to make Se base dreams come true to complete ambition realistically. Sounds bit dull life for Ni bases.
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    Check out my last post again.. i added some stuff...
    -Slava

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    I have a bachelors in computer science... they packed my brain will all sorts of maths and theories, which seem to have come from people's self examination of how they think... very useful
    -Slava

    ENTP/INTP

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    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    After examining conclusions made by ILI and me I must say that I can not be without it. I can caught myself thinking about same things but from different perspective.
    What SLEs tend to lack and want is internal harmony. Maybe it is bit of internal harmony. Knowledge to fulfill yourself.

    For me Ne is having some kind of connection to external. Therefore Ni (possibly) refers to internal state.

    So Ni bases are born in world as some sort of advisers to make Se base dreams come true to complete ambition realistically. Sounds bit dull life for Ni bases.
    cute...

    It would be dull if that was how things really worked. Fortunately I have spent most of my life in the presence of other Ni leads. I consider myself fortunate that I was able to learn a lot from the ILI, and IEI, in my life. It is like looking into a pool of water, as the ripples still I begin to see my own reflection looking back at me. I don't always like what I see, at first. Sometimes I am awestruck by what I see.

    I have been told that my presence in the life of some Se leads led to them to experiencing a sense of internal harmony, clarity of purpose, while with me, which is cool BUT that is not my purpose in life. Other types have told me the same. I can assure you I have led a life rich in both internal and external experience with many types.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    Why all the things in my list then ? Why were all of them associated with Ni .... ?
    People with N that don't like groups of people become good at determining dynamic fields(What variables will react and affect a given object as it travels through a situation) The belief that they are right allows them to act in confidence and to others this appears as Intuition of Time, that they can see the future, but really it's just foresight(The Internal understanding of probabilities).

    I purposefully used all the terms you said conflicted. They don't conflict, they are just attempts to convey a different side of the same object. They appear conflicting only if you're using analysis to understand a new concept, whereas new concepts require synthesis.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    1) Intuition of time?

    2) Beleifs?

    3) Internal version of seeing possibilities?

    4) internal dynamics of fields

    5) Bottom up concepts....

    6) people with N who dont like groups of people...

    I see a lot of conflicting descriptions.....

    1) Yes, intuition of developments and processes over time. It's like a "knowing" of how situations will enfold or lead into one another. It is like being in touch with the flow of events. One river flows into the next. The intuition of time often gives one a good sense on when something "should" happen, based on how it correlates to other temporal developments. For example, without looking at the clock, you get the feeling Sarah should get home by now. Just as you have that thought, you can hear someone opening the door – and it is Sarah. Moments like that happen to me quite often, almost everyday actually. I do not keep track of the time much in terms of looking at the clock or deliberately learning someone's schedule – it is unnecessary. That kind of "knowing" comes to me naturally.

    2) Not really, unless it is about believing how something will turn out or what the true essence of something is. For instance, I told my LSE father once that a certain business venture of his would fail, he did not listen to me. Months later, he did lose money. I was certain that would happen. That is an Ni "belief". Other than that, I find most actual beliefs are grounded on a Rational IE, mostly either Fi or Ti. Fi has ethical beliefs about what is right or wrong ethically, Ti has logical beliefs about how things work in specific frameworks (e.g Socionics "believes" Duality is ideal due to how the functions interact with each other between Duals).

    3) I find that is rather Ne. Ni is also about how everything is "connected", but that knowledge is more of back burner. Ni can see the net, but rather focuses on the little strands that are personally relevant. Ne likes to not focus on any strand in particular, and rather extrapolates how one could go "beyond" the net even; what if the net was two times bigger, and events were three times slower or more varied? What if I had grown up in a different continent with two lesbian parents? If in the future there are robots with artificial A.I, they could star in movies, and we could make them look like old movie stars and have new movies with Marilyn Monroe! Wouldn't that be grand? That is the nature of Ne, it is like building big fantastical castles in the sky. Valuing Se and being Ne Ignoring, Ni leads are more grounded than that in their visions; their visions are more tied to "actual" events and mostly about "the most probable future", not "a probable future" like it is with Ne. Ne Demonstrative may "extrapolate" like Ne leads in the service of their overarching Te or Fe goals; like Elon Musk having a vision of life on Mars or similar, he's using his Ne there.

    4) Not sure what you mean with that exactly.

    5) ?

    6) Those are mostly ILIs with SO blindspot. They'll just focus on developments of technical things or environmental processes over time instead. That is what the Gamma NTs tend to do in general; their focus is more "technical" and objective, often career-focused ("How will the stock market ...")and less focused on how mankind will change or is "going" within a certain stretch of time which we perceive as "the present" – the latter is more of a Beta NF concern. Though the Gamma NTs with a pronounced Social instinct do also "care" more about those humanitarian developments. I find EIEs have a more far-reaching focus that encompasses bigger groups of people, like Martin Luther King Jr. Whereas IEIs (and Sx/Sp EIEs) focus more on the temporal developments of people closest to them. It is like being the shaman who guides your loved ones, trying to protect them from making the wrong steps into the wrong (meaning harmful) direction. Though as an IEI-Ni, I feel largely incompetent at actually influencing the course of time; I can only see its current and where it will lead, I can hardly change its course. That is probably related to my weak Se. I'd need someone "stronger" and more influential to change and impact those situations for me/us. EIEs (and LIEs) feel much more in control of their future and their effect on developments of processes in time. With their Se HA, they'll try to make a "mark" on the current and shift it at will, or at least try to. IEI-Ni and ILI-Ni can often have a more fatalist attitude, "This is how it is gonna go and I can do nothing about it, even if I wanted to." The way I try to influence a better future is by making people have more hope about it. I have caught myself two times saying to someone they are gonna do well as a manner to motivate them and to tell myself they are gonna be okay, even though I had received a few "bad signs" prior that would have to make me believe otherwise. That is my +Ni speaking; sometimes it can be too hopeful, trying to sway a development into a better direction simply by trying to make the person feel more hopeful and certain about their future, so that they can form it into a more favourable shape. I guess that can be good for SLEs, but not as much for the other types. For instance, my SEE sister who values -Ni told me that my prediction was not really correct. I told her, me trying to tell her it would go better than it did was my way of trying to form the development into a better direction; but she did not value that too much. And at the end of the day, my Ni is limited in that it is best in connection with people; it is rather easy for me to see how someone's life will pan out in certain ways as time is enfolding, but there are often other factors around us I might miss because of Ne Ignoring and weaker Logic; especially factors that are less connected to humans and more situational or environmental like the weather.
    Last edited by Olimpia; 04-14-2017 at 09:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    Why all the things in my list then ? Why were all of them associated with Ni .... ?
    Where did you get this stuff anyways? 1 and 4 are the only ones I've seen seriously proposed as a definition for Ni. The other ones may have been associated with it but not as a general definition.

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    It's about imagining yourself living in either the future or the past... you envision what the future might be like quite a lot. It's about knowing and seeing patterns and trends, cause and effects.

    It literally has to do with simply imagining and visualizing what the future might be like, whether it be 5 minutes or 20 years from now.

    It's also a bit calculating... it's like playing mental chess in your head.

    It also has something to do with internal harmony and consistency... you want things to be consistent. That's why Ni-doms get irked by hypocrisies quite a lot. You want behaviors to be consistent. They also tend to get ideological because they want more consistency in ideas or people.

    It's also to do with a lot of introspecting and knowing a lot about your own mental states.
    Last edited by Singu; 04-14-2017 at 11:48 PM.

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    Ti of Ni .... a comes before b before before c = a comes before c

    Ti of Ti .... a causes b causes c = a causes c


    entity relationship entity .... relationship entity relationship

    object field object .... field object field...
    -Slava

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    "deeper understanding"

    Wouldn't that be Ti ? (Ti = to understand)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    "deeper understanding"

    Wouldn't that be Ti ? (Ti = to understand)
    Yeah, you could say that Ti is about "understanding". Ni is more about "knowing", the way I see it, which could sound arrogant if taken the wrong way.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Ya know that scene in Harry Potter with Dumbledore's Pensieve? Where he can extract a dream from his bowl of memories to help get a sense of what will happen? It's like that, except the Ni-Bases' head is constantly in that bowl of memories. A lot of moving imagery that evolves over time depending on the circumstances.

    Everyone gets hunches, and a lot of people like to broadcast in a way that is "Oh, I knew that was going to happen!" THIS isn't Ni-Base. Ni-Bases do not like to speak of these things, because "it will spoil their whole game" (quote from Jung). The people who so readily broadcast that they are right about a situation or that they 'knew' something was going to happen, are NOT Ni-Base; I repeat, NOT Ni-Base.

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    Knowing is Te :-) ..... socionics is very relativistic.... if you start breaking down the words and axioms at the base...
    -Slava

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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Ya know that scene in Harry Potter with Dumbledore's Pensieve? Where he can extract a dream from his bowl of memories to help get a sense of what will happen? It's like that, except the Ni-Bases' head is constantly in that bowl of memories. A lot of moving imagery that evolves over time depending on the circumstances.

    Everyone gets hunches, and a lot of people like to broadcast in a way that is "Oh, I knew that was going to happen!" THIS isn't Ni-Base. Ni-Bases do not like to speak of these things, because "it will spoil their whole game" (quote from Jung). The people who so readily broadcast that they are right about a situation or that they 'knew' something was going to happen, are NOT Ni-Base; I repeat, NOT Ni-Base.
    Excellent example.

    Adding to what you wrote, the ones shouting "Something is about to go down!" are us leads who sense urgent and potential events that are important and essential to development, we can't be silent about it. The ones saying "I knew" are some of us and also impostors who want credit but can't truly forecast anything. I don't think saying "I knew" is actually useful to resolve something so keeping further outlook is more necessary in a situation. "Should have" is a regret though, missed external opportunities

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    What my tells me is that this thread is going enneagram 6 real quick and will end in a heated fundamental debate.

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    Ne and Ni mix well... Ni says something will happen, but if it is impossible based on Ne then it probably cant happen and thus wont happen. Ni can also help Ne... Ne sees all the possible outcomes and Ni will tell them which one is the most likely..
    -Slava

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    I've been thinking about this myself recently and looking to remove the vagueness in the generally accepted idea of what Ni is. I think most people on the forum have a good grasp of what it is, but it's awkward to spell out and define. I think the forum needs more of this though. Deciding on things mutually now could prevent more confusion and disagreement on definitions and concepts in the future.

    I've personally seen all the things on the OPs list throughout the typology community.
    [Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.

    It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.

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    I always wished i was better at multi threading in my mind... it would have made it easier for me in Telecom classes where we studied communication protocols where signals were send back and forth and synchronized perfectly......

    Same with multi threading in Java and C#
    -Slava

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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Ya know that scene in Harry Potter with Dumbledore's Pensieve? Where he can extract a dream from his bowl of memories to help get a sense of what will happen? It's like that, except the Ni-Bases' head is constantly in that bowl of memories. A lot of moving imagery that evolves over time depending on the circumstances.
    This is a nice description of vortical-synergistic thinking. (Positive, dynamic, inductive)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I very much relate. Throughout my school years I was constantly getting in trouble for daydreaming in class, despite still getting good grades. My parents even had me see professionals for it because my teaches urged them too. I ended up with an ADD diagnosis. Intresting to note is that apparently they couldn't 100% prove that I had ADD, but it was the best left option.

    It kind of makes me wonder if it's common for Ni egos to get diagnosed with ADD as I know a few other Ni egos here also have the diagnosis. I know there has been links between ADHD and perceiving types in MBTI, and apparently Ni is an irrational function?
    Its possible that its linked in diagnosis, but as far as actually having an impulsivity and attention problem, id say Ni base is at the very bottom of the list. Especially IEI, seeing as how most IEI are comparatively bad tactile learners and exceptional auditory learners, it naturally leads to developing patience and attention span as the primary mode of learning is listening.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    I think singularity is a good example of Ni: he subconsciously divides information into relevant/irrelevant in presenting any kind of idea and it shows because I feel like he references all sorts of meaningless stuff yet he does so in a weirdly consistent way which I believe is his unique Ni disclosing itself

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    Quote Originally Posted by passenger View Post
    Ya know that scene in Harry Potter with Dumbledore's Pensieve? Where he can extract a dream from his bowl of memories to help get a sense of what will happen? It's like that, except the Ni-Bases' head is constantly in that bowl of memories. A lot of moving imagery that evolves over time depending on the circumstances.

    Everyone gets hunches, and a lot of people like to broadcast in a way that is "Oh, I knew that was going to happen!" THIS isn't Ni-Base. Ni-Bases do not like to speak of these things, because "it will spoil their whole game" (quote from Jung). The people who so readily broadcast that they are right about a situation or that they 'knew' something was going to happen, are NOT Ni-Base; I repeat, NOT Ni-Base.
    Trump comes to mind on the bold part. Always blowing his own horn.

    I don't know if it is about spoiling the game for me but that is another way of putting it. The reason I do not get very involved or share many "predictions", epiphanies/insights is that I know it can cause trauma or stress to people when it is only a probability. Not set in stone. Experience taught me that though. It can lead someone down a path that might not be the best one for them. I can't know what is for the higher good of others, only for myself, so I don't want to meddle in people's personal business. I will discuss ideas but even then I feel I hold back a lot. Creating or discovering oneself, depending on your perspective, is very personal business. Exception is probably my family or very close friends but I try not to influence their choices too much either. It is not fair to them since the root of it can be manipulative to get what I want even if what I want is to spare them pain. Many predictions are kind of self serving anyway.

    Most of my hunches, or whatever, are not particularly newsworthy to others since they are highly personal. I would rather share in someone's joy than rain on their parade even if I don't think things will end well. I might not even share when asked directly. I would really struggle with it before and feel them out. Being more optimistic than pessimistic I do not focus on doom and gloom scenarios, except in my own head when I am overly stressed. There are choices made that can alter probabilities. Telling someone what you believe you see can result in them creating a self fulfilling prophecy. Sometimes it is best to keep your mouth shut and just observe. Basically it is meant for me, more than others. The thing is younger Ni leads can get cocky. It happens. Especially if they go down a path of believing they have super special powers unavailable to the masses. Everyone has some form of intuition. Not everyone needs it to get by in this world. Being knocked down a peg, or two, a few times, by life was often enough for me to learn the lesson but not always. Every time I thought I had it all figured out life would show me I didn't. If anything it made me more reluctant to tempt fate into kicking my ass again. :/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I think singularity is a good example of Ni: he subconsciously divides information into relevant/irrelevant in presenting any kind of idea and it shows because I feel like he references all sorts of meaningless stuff yet he does so in a weirdly consistent way which I believe is his unique Ni disclosing itself
    I am not questioning his Ni. What you are describing is more related to Ti though.

    Ti is generally associated with the ability to recognize logical consistency and correctness, generate and apply classifications and systems, organize systematic and conceptual understanding, see logical connections between things (including logical similarities, differences, and correlations) by means of instinctive feelings of validity, symmetry, and even beauty. It is like common sense, in that it builds on one's expectations of reality, through a somewhat personal, though explicable, understanding of general truths and how they are manifested.

    Types that value Ti naturally question the consistency of beliefs that are taken for granted in everyday life. They strongly prefer to make decisions based on their own experience and judgement, as opposed to relying on external authorities for knowledge, which they use only as a last resort. They also have respect for people with clearly defined and internally consistent opinions, believing that a sense of internal certainty is necessary for orienting oneself in life. To these types, one's personal standards of truth are more reliable than public consensus.

    They see overly pragmatic views as shallow, and try to limit public discussion of mundane practical matters. They are especially sensitive to redundant information.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    I've been thinking about this myself recently and looking to remove the vagueness in the generally accepted idea of what Ni is. I think most people on the forum have a good grasp of what it is, but it's awkward to spell out and define. I think the forum needs more of this though. Deciding on things mutually now could prevent more confusion and disagreement on definitions and concepts in the future.

    I've personally seen all the things on the OPs list throughout the typology community.
    Yeah.

    isn't really what anyone here has said it is even if they're close. is about connections between things on a perceptual level, basically (internal dynamics of fields). "Intuition of time" is sort of a misleading name IMO but Augusta was ignoring so shame on her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I am not questioning his Ni. What you are describing is more related to Ti though.
    I get the vibe hes doing it subconsciously as a matter of perception, a kind of "whole vision" of how he sees the world. Yes its related through Ti but I think the funky worldview precedes Ti and its what makes his views have their "out there" quality to most people

    I really like this definition, despite the clunky translation


    This function sees the world in the dynamics of its transformation. You do not need to know how and what happens - but to see exactly what will end, or, more precisely, what outcomes and with what probabilities are possible. These people divide information into important and unimportant precisely in terms of its impact on the future (or, as some of them believe, the past - the past in their eyes is also changeable). In a world that exists between eternity and eternity, it makes little sense to do now - most of the actions in general will not affect the development of events at all, so why make them? Therefore, understanding the equal meaninglessness, from the point of view of the outcome, practically everything in life, they judge it from other positions: aesthetic, for example. To many things that are considered traditionally important, they are treated as a game ... And it depends on other personality properties whether they are participants, bookmakers or just spectators.
    I get the vibe he's always pushing this underlying narrative, and Ni is sorting things based on those underlying conceptual relations, as a matter of perception

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    Knowing is Te :-) ..... socionics is very relativistic.... if you start breaking down the words and axioms at the base...
    Knowledge may be Te. "Knowing" is something that happens inside my head without a specific external source of knowledge to trace it back to. I am not even going to attempt to explain that though. Maybe this will help if you can overlook the term "metaphysical" to get the gist of it.

    Claircognizance (clear knowing) is a metaphysical sense where you know something to be correct but may be unable to back up your statement with fact or how you came into that information.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    This idea of just knowing something is a bad descriptor and I wish people would stop using it, how else is anybody supposed to get it who isn't in your mind?

    This is my best guess, Ne assesses an objects potential and Ni applies the time factor to it. So when two objects are interacting, it gets a sense of where things are going by the images produced in its head. An example, X and Y are in an argument, as time (Ni factor) goes on various things have changed - body language, tone, etc. Ni keeps track of what is changing in these interactions. The Ni type then gets an image of the two in a physical altercation before it takes place. It grip them emotionally creating a sense of knowing of what will come. Is this on the right track?

    That's slanted towards Ni and Fe. I am assuming Ni and Te does this with production, are these processes running effectively? They get a sense of what is changing, if something is becoming more or less efficient, and gets an image of where that will end up in terms of results, creating a sense of knowing.

    If this is true, then there needs to be a clarification in that Ni isnt really about imagination, not in the way people are thinking about it. Imagining you are a princess in some castle for example wouldn't fit this because Ni is essentially centered on real world events, the images might just be an embellished version of what the person it is actually experiencing. This does make sense to me, because Ni should be synergizing with Se, and daydreaming such as the princess example doesn't do that.
    Hey, feel free to PM me with any opinions about my type

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    IEs don't exist independently in socionics. That's why I like to use the + and - signs often, because it's a good shorthand for what you're really referring to. is internal dynamics of fields, but what's in the field? That's why you need to block it with either or , to show what's in the field. So with you get + and with you get -, and the -Creatives' actually draws from the Role function which is what makes it weird and why Creative types use the Role function more often. + is the whole "gut feelings" thing and - is about concrete details but can't really evaluate them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade View Post
    This idea of just knowing something is a bad descriptor and I wish people would stop using it, how else is anybody supposed to get it who isn't in your mind?

    This is my best guess, Ne assesses an objects potential and Ni applies the time factor to it. So when two objects are interacting, it gets a sense of where things are going by the images produced in its head. An example, X and Y are in an argument, as time (Ni factor) goes on various things have changed - body language, tone, etc. Ni keeps track of what is changing in these interactions. The Ni type then gets an image of the two in a physical altercation before it takes place. It grip them emotionally creating a sense of knowing of what will come. Is this on the right track?

    That slanted towards Ni and Fe. I am assuming Ni and Te does this with production, are these processes running effectively? They get a sense of what is changing, if something is becoming more or less efficient, and gets an image of where that will end up in terms of results, creating a sense of knowing.

    If this is true, then there needs to be a clarification in that Ni isnt really about imagination, not in the way people are thinking about it. Imagining you are a princess in some castle for exa,[;e wouldn't fit this because Ni is essentially centered on real world events, the images might just be an embellished version of what the person it is actually experience. This does make sense to me, because Ni should be synergizing with Se, and daydreaming such as the princess example doesn't do that.
    exactly, Ni sorts concepts in terms of their time factor, or "where they're going" / "what they lead to" and then people "pick" them on the basis of this unconscious perception when making judgements

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade View Post
    If this is true, then there needs to be a clarification in that Ni isnt really about imagination, not in the way people are thinking about it. Imagining you are a princess in some castle for exa,[;e wouldn't fit this because Ni is essentially centered on real world events, the images might just be an embellished version of what the person it is actually experience. This does make sense to me, because Ni should be synergizing with Se, and daydreaming such as the princess example doesn't do that.
    Thank you.

    Also, on , is the internal statics of objects, so it's about being able to evaluate the properties, uses, attributes, etc. of objects independently of any connection to anything else. is an incredibly useful function and the whole "random ideas" thing isn't really it. For example, low types tend to have the most difficultly reading people from my experience, since is largely (but not entirely) what lets you get inside someone else's head (hence IEE as "the Psychologist").

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