Ask an SLE woman

[niffer]

First, some thoughts inserted into the body of your post here:

*deleted*

Edit: Maybe I misunderstood so just in case, I am capable of deep analysis without help (yes, I know--my words were ambiguous but I didn't expect this to be one interpretation...if I did, I would have chosen different wording..) but I do value Ti in others as long as it doesn't conflict with my Ni (actually I wasn't talking about Ti specifically, but about "T" overall--that is, I didn't literally mean to imply that I thought Ti or Te was literally your dual-seeking/suggestive function or that you were some other type than what you see yourself as, but I'll get to this below...). I was just acknowledging that he (ava) does know a lot about theory but not as much about direct experience.**

When I say "suggestive", I mean in the sense that it is an attractive type of information for you. People tend to be attracted to those who have their lower dimensionality strengths in higher dimensionalities. In this sense, our PoLRs, for example, can be just as "suggestive" to us, in terms of finding a good friend/partner/match, as our suggestive or dual-seeking. This is a major part of why people can be so attracted to their conflictors initially, or why we can be attracted to our supervisors or even supervisees and why there are a lot of supervision marriages. E.g. for ethical types, logical information is attractive, and ethical information is attractive and "suggestive" for logical types.

I mentioned it because I've noticed that you and other people of your type, seem to hone in on displays of logic in a particular way, and I've seen this in numerous instances here on the forum.



**Regarding @Avalonia, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that he is inexperienced, even in terms of directly dealing with SLEs specifically. In other matters I would venture to say that he's anything but inexperienced.

It's not even a logical issue; the issue is deeper and to do with a huge way that socionics itself can be problematic for anybody using it, and that is stereotyping. Stereotypes develop because of real issues and because it's easy to rationalize them, which blows up into stigmas that make it more difficult for people to want to explore and see which sides of issues are true or not. The idea that a person is your supervisor also creates instant bias and can instantly make someone excited for a chance to see if they can take them down a notch. Not saying that it was purely this as a driving force in this situation, but it can happen, and based on the wording of his post I do not doubt that it played a role here. [He "already" sees an issue present.....?] Anyway TLDR I don't think it was an issue of logic vs. experience per se in this case, but I already explained my thoughts on this in a post above.

[Aylen]

First, some thoughts inserted into the body of your post here:



When I say "suggestive", I mean in the sense that it is an attractive type of information for you. People tend to be attracted to those who have their lower dimensionality strengths in higher dimensionalities. In this sense, our PoLRs, for example, can be just as "suggestive" to us, in terms of finding a good friend/partner/match, as our suggestive or dual-seeking. This is a major part of why people can be so attracted to their conflictors initially, or why we can be attracted to our supervisors or even supervisees and why there are a lot of supervision marriages. E.g. for ethical types, logical information is attractive, and ethical information is attractive and "suggestive" for logical types.

I mentioned it because I've noticed that you and other people of your type, seem to hone in on displays of logic in a particular way, and I've seen this in numerous instances here on the forum.



**Regarding @Avalonia, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that he is inexperienced, even in terms of directly dealing with SLEs specifically. In other matters I would venture to say that he's anything but inexperienced.

It's not even a logical issue; the issue is deeper and to do with a huge way that socionics itself can be problematic for anybody using it, and that is stereotyping. Stereotypes develop because of real issues and because it's easy to rationalize them, which blow up into stigmas that make it more difficult for people to want to explore and see which sides of issues are true or not. The idea that a person is your supervisor also creates instant bias and can instantly make someone excited for a chance to see if they can take them down a notch. Not saying that it was purely this as a driving force in this situation, but it can happen, and based on the wording of his post I do not doubt that it played a role here. [He "already" sees an issue present.....?] Anyway TLDR I don't think it was an issue of logic vs. experience per se in this case, but I already explained my thoughts on this in a post above.

Thanks for clarifying. I have said this too many times but I will repeat so you can see why logic might be attractive, to me, on a deeper level. I was raised by an ILI and in a long term relationship with an ILI. They were my primary influences for many years and yes they had a way of hitting my polr. I do not necessarily feel I seek logic in a socionics sense but I seek clarity. I am not sure if you are saying Ava is my supervisor but I see him as my beneficiary in a socioncs sense. It is a theory so I don't put much faith in it as far as relationships go except on a very superficial level.

In comparison to me I am sure Ava does not have the breadth of experience that I have with actual human beings. That is what I meant. Theory is fine and he is good at sorting it out and categorizing. I think he is highly intelligent and knows things that even some adults do not. I was the same way but I did not "know" because of my logic. I just knew things. I could read between the lines and I eavesdropped on adults a lot as a child. I also have a strong grasp on common sense. Thanks to my stepdad (ILI).

My childhood would probably shock some people but I do not want to talk about that here. I feel a lot of empathy for Ava and what he is going through so that spilled over here. I don't want to see him end up locked away, like I was, unable to see family and analyzed by "experts" to the point I was practically catatonic, just because I saw the world differently and did not fit the stereotype of "normal". If my posts are not completely clear sometimes it is because I do not write half of what I am thinking. I might skip key information because I tend to forget that other people are not always going to be able to sort things out or read between the lines.

I think because he is logical base that he won't be. I was very confused when it came to reality and there were a lot of gray areas for me... I don't think he is. I believe he will be fine and what he is going through now is going to making him much wiser and stronger than I was. I also believe in giving credit where it is due. Do I think his logic is stronger than mine, not really but the reasons why I think that are not important. I can see how he might grow into something really special if he believes in himself. I do know he would probably blow me away on an IQ test though.

He is still in his mid teens from what I picked up in chatbox and by default I am going to say he does not have enough experience with different people to see how the theory aligns with reality. I would have balked at being told I was inexperienced at his age because I felt I knew it all. I didn't. That is all I meant. Ava does not come off as a "know it all" like some ILI and the recent suggestion that he is ILI (in chatbox) doesn't sit right with me.

Anyway, I understand what you are saying...

Edit: Not to mention my mom is LSI. I was surrounded by logical people at home. On the streets it was mostly beta and gamma sensors.

[niffer]

Thanks for clarifying. I have said this too many times but I will repeat so you can see why logic might be attractive, to me, on a deeper level. I was raised by an ILI and in a long term relationship with an ILI. They were my primary influences for many years and yes they had a way of hitting my polr. I do not necessarily feel I seek logic in a socionics sense but I seek clarity. I am not sure if you are saying Ava is my supervisor but I see him as my beneficiary in a socioncs sense. It is a theory so I don't put much faith in it as far as relationships go except on a very superficial level.

In comparison to me I am sure Ava does not have the breadth of experience that I have with actual human beings. That is what I meant. Theory is fine and he is good at sorting it out and categorizing. I think he is highly intelligent and knows things that even some adults do not. I was the same way but I did not "know" because of my logic. I just knew things. I could read between the lines and I eavesdropped on adults a lot as a child. I also have a strong grasp on common sense. Thanks to my stepdad (ILI).

My childhood would probably shock some people but I do not want to talk about that here. I feel a lot of empathy for Ava and what he is going through so that spilled over here. I don't want to see him end up locked away, like I was, unable to see family and analyzed by "experts" to the point I was practically catatonic, just because I saw the world differently and did not fit the stereotype of "normal". If my posts are not completely clear sometimes it is because I do not write half of what I am thinking. I might skip key information because I tend to forget that other people are not always going to be able to sort things out or read between the lines.

I think because he is logical base that he won't be. I was very confused when it came to reality and there were a lot of gray areas for me... I don't think he is. I believe he will be fine and what he is going through now is going to making him much wiser and stronger than I was. I also believe in giving credit where it is due. Do I think his logic is stronger than mine, not really but the reasons why I think that are not important. I can see how he might grow into something really special if he believes in himself. I do know he would probably blow me away on an IQ test though.

He is still in his mid teens from what I picked up in chatbox and by default I am going to say he does not have enough experience with different people to see how the theory aligns with reality. I would have balked at being told I was inexperienced at his age because I felt I knew it all. I didn't. That is all I meant. Ava does not come off as a "know it all" like some ILI and the recent suggestion that he is ILI (in chatbox) doesn't sit right with me.

Anyway, I understand what you are saying...

Edit: Not to mention my mom is LSI. I was surrounded by logical people at home. On the streets it was mostly beta and gamma sensors.

Okay. I had no idea that Ava was that age. I originally thought he was in his 20s or 30s lolol.

To further clarify, I never had any thoughts that you were anything but IEI, and wasn't trying to imply that in my posts either.

[niffer]

@Aylen I think it's funny that in contrast to you and many others, I don't really leave a lot of my thinking out lol. I mean I sometimes make things overly condensed and skip over reasoning, assuming that people will fill in a lot of the logical stepping stones themselves, which I guess contributes to a lot of misunderstanding. What I say is usually just so dry and bare bones and flat one-dimensional in a way that's beyond norms for how people relay information to each other that there's so much room for people to fill in the void with a lot of assumptions of what I'm implying. And then on the other hand, when I'm actually trying to be artfully subtle to get people to try to open their minds and read between the lines, it's just way too subtle and people will rarely catch on. Anyway I'm just overall terrible at dealing with interpersonal, communication concerns. It seems to be very difficult for me to predict or take into account and engineer what people may or may not get out of what I say. At most, I can try to get my tone across with some low-key Fe, but that's still very weak for me so it often times hurts more than it helps.