What do you think of Switzerland as example of a Delta culture

[Khola aka Bee]

They have Ikea and hot chicks. And wicked meatballs! I will be their friend!

[leckysupport]

They have Ikea and hot chicks. And wicked meatballs! I will be their friend!

That's Sweden.

[Khola aka Bee]

That's Sweden.

Oh yeah (moron)

They make good knives?

[leckysupport]

Oh yeah (moron)

OK, IT CAN BE WHERE EVER YOU WANT IT TO BE!!

[Expat]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate: I think that a lot that drives the "Swiss psyche" is a feeling of isolation, not only of themselves from the outside world, but also within, precisely because the individual cantons are so independent. I think this is driven by a sense of "finding security in isolation", but also some arrogance, as in, why should Switzerland need the rest of the world? But perhaps this is unfair.

Also, it sounds like a cliche but it's largely true: what allowed them to build up their economy was not only their neutrality - so they not only survived the two world wars but actually profited from them, by trading with everyone - but the famous Swiss banking system, which was, and to a large extent still is, a magnet for all kinds of money, whether legal, shady, illegal, or downright criminal. That they have invested that money wisely, and developed their economy, industry, etc, does not change the origins of the money.

And yes, the country is beautiful, because of the Alps and the lakes. But you get that in Austria and Northern Italy as well.

[UDP]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate: I think that a lot that drives the "Swiss psyche" is a feeling of isolation, not only of themselves from the outside world, but also within, precisely because the individual cantons are so independent. I think this is driven by a sense of "finding security in isolation", but also some arrogance, as in, why should Switzerland need the rest of the world? But perhaps this is unfair.

Also, it sounds like a cliche but it's largely true: what allowed them to build up their economy was not only their neutrality - so they not only survived the two world wars but actually profited from them, by trading with everyone - but the famous Swiss banking system, which was, and to a large extent still is, a magnet for all kinds of money, whether legal, shady, illegal, or downright criminal. That they have invested that money wisely, and developed their economy, industry, etc, does not change the origins of the money.

And yes, the country is beautiful, because of the Alps and the lakes. But you get that in Austria and Northern Italy as well.

The interesting thing about how ENTjs speak is that they present a very clear and very factually based argument. I read this post by expat and was impressed, and I also don't suspect him of skewing information or any such thing.

Still, I can't help but feel that when I observe ENTj writing or words, it is very much information channeled specifically at something - and I suspect this is related to Te-Ni. To me, at its core, it seems not objective.

Other side notes:

• Te-Si is much more simply looking at "what is". This is actually less "speed-conducive" or "streamlined" towards a certain end or viewpoint.
• Te-Si, to me, seems much more natural. And perhaps that is why the delta NFs are significantly more open to things - as in valuing Ne.
• All of this, really, at its core.... it is something very in depth that tweaks me a little bit. And it's something I feel as a "competition" between gammas and deltas: deltas seem to be the only people really looking at 'the truth'. The gamma way is much more streamlined towards objectives, towards some sort of Ni vision or some sort of pattern. To me this seems arbitrary and fake, and somehow not looking at everything.

So in one sense - what I've been thinking about recently - I feel a 'battle' or competition, going on between delta and gamma. It has to do with "te" or "reality and its interpretation" if you will. Gamma NTs seem much more focused with getting somewhere as opposed to seeing where they are. I understand that the Se egos are to counterbalance the NTs, but still.... it strikes me more like a simple "MORE" or "LESS" command. I seem to be losing trust in gammas ability to actually accurately interpret things - though this concern arises more when there is unhealthiness about.

Other points

• In this way, I generally only see deltas as actually concerned with looking at what is true and what is real, and what is the case. (I am also aware that my whole way of thinking in this post may very well be a result of my functional perspective on reality). However, this is how I feel. And this feeling is so strong that it makes me very much want to be around deltas. Alphas are nice, but they don't seem to care as much, they don't have this feeling of responsibiltiy that (some) deltas do; it's just not the same. Betas seem to blatantly don't care, but I sort of "get that" and because they don't challenge me in the way that I'm describing in this thread -- they just don't care -- it seems... more harmless. So again, in this way, gammas are more of a 'threat' because they approach Te from a more biased perspective - that's what it feels like.
  
  And I tend to feel like that, comparatively, when a gamma looks at what I say in comparisson to how they feel things, my way of presenting things is "disadvantagous". This fits in somewhat with 'not valuing Se" and also "not being concerned with an Ni vision". So I feel like they think "Yeah that may be the case, but why do you care? It's not fitting in with where we are going. Thinking about everything (Ne) is a waste of time and not going to mobilize us towards the specific goal we are hoping to attain here."
  
  Something like that.
• Finally, I realize that not all deltas, really, are able to see things clearly. But to it seems deltas, overall, have seen things the most clearly, or have the general potential to see things most clearly. ESTjs and ISTps can get sort of lethargic in their Si views on things, constrained and contained (especially if they don't have Ne from their duals). The NFs can be so scattered that they don't get anywhere or really address anything in a productive fasion.
• And still finally, what I did in the last paragraph seems to be a very important part of delta, and if you will, a difference between gamma and delta: a sense of self criticism or ability to admit multiple perspective; or perhaps in more Ni/Se vs Ne/Si terms, gammas strike me as being averse to point out the limitedness of their own perspectives and views (related to unvalued Ne, valued Ni and Se, perhaps). But to me, this is a very clear desire to dellude yourself, and it's something that does 'bother me' at times, in how certain gammas I know go about things.
  
  Gammas seem to feel like if they present a weakness or multiple perspectives, that they suddenly make themselves weaker, or it is somehow negative. (I realize that my wording of things might not convey what I'm trying to convey but I'm trying to select the best words). But it is this resistance, this insecurity, or this aversion to these other ways of looking at things (or related to me, other ways of seeing reality), that is problematic to me.
  
  This is particularly so, in some cases, where ENTjs are trying to direct reality and interpretation of reality in a certain way, particularly towards their own vision of things. In this way, (and thus some of the motivation for this post), I feel like somewhat of a counter to ENTjs trying to implement such things. I see them as being useful and can learn things from them, but lately, I've felt a sense of having to coutnerbalance them or even protect people from the process/consequences of ENTjs seeking to implement their vision.

There are some other things related to this, but, I believe this to be enough for this post.

[Creepy-male]

...wow.

T16T, meet left field.

[Errant]

Holy Emperor of Mankind, that came out of nowhere.

[pinas]

That's Sweden.

Indeed.

[Ritella]

Indeed.

lol. thank god this thread was resurrected so that i could read this missed post.

[The Martrix]

That's Sweden.

I visited Sweden in the coldest winter for year. It was quite alpha, from what I can remember.

[Banana Pancakes]

Generally I like it.