Opinions of Subtypes

[Ezra]

I think I care about as much for RL application as you do – perhaps a bit less, but not nearly as less as the other users mentioned. Although – I may give this issue a rest anyway, if only because you must first figure out how to identify classical quadra values, before worrying about them in “high-res”.

Am I right when I see this as a personal attack on my ability to identify what I am good and bad at, even though this fact has nothing to do with the current conversation? This isn't the first time you've said this before, you said "if you ever work out what functions you value" yesterday. If you have an issue either PM me, or start a thread about it. Issues like this shouldn't be used when discussing ideass that have nothing to do with them.

[Ezra]

What did you edit, and why today?

[Smilingeyes]

What ifmd95 claims to observe in this thread is the exact same thing with the exact same results that I have been observing. There is plenty of other things that I say about socionics which are speculative or theoretical, but this issue is real and extremely important.

As a real life example, this autumn I was approached by a dual of extreme different subtype. So we were both at the extreme extrovert function subtype. We came close together very quickly and quicker than other subtypes would, due to both of us expanding energy in the extrovert direction, but neither one would actually budge or spend time accepting the other's input. We just sort of butted against each other and went our different ways due to neither one being willing to adapt to the other's direction. The dual dynamic was strong enough to create a great attraction, but basically, the situation was incompatible nonetheless. There are elements about me that are still ENTjish and there are elements about the other person that are INTjish, so there were moments and situations that worked as if we were actually contrary, or illusionary, or semi-dual. Basically, the situation was unstable, despite the main thread of dual attraction.

There is a wealth of understanding to be had from this area and the matter is strongly based on the functions themselves instead of abstract models like Model A. This is powerful.

[misutii]

What ifmd95 claims to observe in this thread is the exact same thing with the exact same results that I have been observing. There is plenty of other things that I say about socionics which are speculative or theoretical, but this issue is real and extremely important.

As a real life example, this autumn I was approached by a dual of extreme different subtype. So we were both at the extreme extrovert function subtype. We came close together very quickly and quicker than other subtypes would, due to both of us expanding energy in the extrovert direction, but neither one would actually budge or spend time accepting the other's input. We just sort of butted against each other and went our different ways due to neither one being willing to adapt to the other's direction. The dual dynamic was strong enough to create a great attraction, but basically, the situation was incompatible nonetheless. There are elements about me that are still ENTjish and there are elements about the other person that are INTjish, so there were moments and situations that worked as if we were actually contrary, or illusionary, or semi-dual. Basically, the situation was unstable, despite the main thread of dual attraction.

There is a wealth of understanding to be had from this area and the matter is strongly based on the functions themselves instead of abstract models like Model A. This is powerful.

My personal experience actually tends to reinforce that actually (that extreme sub-types experience more duality problems -fraying each other's nerves and working against, rather than with, each other.

For example although it might be expected that an SLE-Se and IEI-Ni match best I haven't found this to be true. An SLE-Se should require more Ni, and an IEI-Ni should require more Se... however, I find that Se subtypes are much less trusting of Ni. After all Strong Se makes a person pragmatic and concerned with achieving immediate results in the current moment. Also it makes people more protective of their own environment and less willing to listen to others. Thus I've found that even though I have, in the past, provided Se types with Ni, even if they do agree with me initially, they never actually make good use of it (i.e. Se type is doing stupid things and experiencing the consequence of doing stupid things. I tell them what the root of the problem is and they agree ("they'll say something like "yah, you're right") but later it's like they forget we even had the conversation. Furthermore they continue to come to me to seek advice about the same problems. After a few times of this I become more impatient and less polite and eventually I view the issue as a lost cause not worth my time and tell them, one way or another, to shut up. So in conclusion most of the Ni I "provide them" is useless.

I'm mentioning this because I've also found that SLE-Ses respond very well to Fe. It's like when I'm in a good mood it's easy for me to raise their mood. In fact they tend to respond well to almost any Fe-emotionally expressive interaction. I'm usually in Ni-mode and not overly expressive. When an SLE-Se subtype contrives to make me be expressive I can easily see through it and ignore it. They can't seem to tell that I'm politely ignoring them for their own good though and keep pushing until eventually they succeed but only end up with something they were really better off not hearing and then both of us are pissed off.

Also most of the Se they "provide me" is useless. One of my pet peeves is activity that lacks purpose. If there was one type that loved, above all else, to do things just for the simple sake of doing things it would be an SLE-Se. Although this is "ok" in itself the problem is that they then want to drag me into doing these purposeless petty things with them and not only that but they see it as doing me a favour. This leads to dumb arguments as they just don't understand why a person would want time to themself, after all, the one thing they can't stand above all else is being alone and bored. Not only that but Se subtypes gravitate towards the loudest, most crowded places around, exactly the kind of place a person such as myself tends to go out of his way to avoid. They take delight superficial conversation (you know, the kind of conversation you'll hear in a bar) and are much more "image conscious" than the Ti subtype. SLE-Se subtypes are more "trendy" just as IEI-Fe subtypes are more "trendy".

anyways blah blah blah you get the point. Basically I've found that I get along much better with Ti subtypes. In the end my interactions with SLE-Se subtypes have all led to me viewing them as superficial and impulsive and them vewing me as negative and boring. I'm wondering if this applies to the rest of the socion as well.

[Smilingeyes]

I very much agree with the phenomenon misutii talks about. It's the classical dual phenomenon of initually undervaluing one's dual. As a similar example there's a nurse in the place I work, she's exact dual to me. I end up being very distant of her, because we never ever have anything to talk about. We have very warm, but very distant relations, since I support everything she does and vice versa, but we can't handle similar information at all, so there's no area of contact. This has led some socionists into claiming that actually illusionary or semi-dual types are better than duals. In my opinion it's a matter of preference and adaptation. Each relationship has its own kind of dynamics, strengths and weaknesses.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I very much agree with the phenomenon misutii talks about. It's the classical dual phenomenon of initually undervaluing one's dual. As a similar example there's a nurse in the place I work, she's exact dual to me. I end up being very distant of her, because we never ever have anything to talk about. We have very warm, but very distant relations, since I support everything she does and vice versa, but we can't handle similar information at all, so there's no area of contact. This has led some socionists into claiming that actually illusionary or semi-dual types are better than duals. In my opinion it's a matter of preference and adaptation. Each relationship has its own kind of dynamics, strengths and weaknesses.

Just make her laugh. If she's interested she will laugh.

I think you're right about illusionary and semi-dual types being under-rated. Illusionary provide good assistance to our PoLR and there is more chance of sharing similar hobbies to initially get the friendship/dating ball rolling due to increased similarity in clubs.

Do you have a sub type Smilingeyes? I've read Gulenko saying that the rational sub type has a better duality fit with an irrational sub type dual, ie for me ISTp-Te with ENFp Ne. They also find themselves with more to talk about. I find this the case with me.

[Smilingeyes]

Just make her laugh. If she's interested she will laugh.

I don't have any reason to try to change my relationship dynamics with her. I'm very happy with the excellent functional but distant work partnership I have with her.

I think you're right about illusionary and semi-dual types being under-rated. Illusionary provide good assistance to our PoLR and there is more chance of sharing similar hobbies to initially get the friendship/dating ball rolling due to increased similarity in clubs.

Exactly.

Do you have a sub type Smilingeyes? I've read Gulenko saying that the rational sub type has a better duality fit with an irrational sub type dual, ie for me ISTp-Te with ENFp Ne. They also find themselves with more to talk about. I find this the case with me.

I'm Te. I think what's "better" is subjective. Otherwise, how could both illusionary and semi-dual be better than the dual, and if so which one would be the best? Should I prefer them better if they showed more Se and less Ne, or less Se and more Ne? I don't see any sense in supporting illusionary over semi-dual or vice versa. To me, personally, the distance of dual relations is a feature, not a bug.

[kensi]

Do you have a sub type Smilingeyes? I've read Gulenko saying that the rational sub type has a better duality fit with an irrational sub type dual, ie for me ISTp-Te with ENFp Ne. They also find themselves with more to talk about. I find this the case with me.

I've heard that too (Ganin) but i find it hard to believe IRL (siding with RSV3)...as you probably know.