instead of "xxxx are evil", how bout this (ESTp's)

[stevENTj]

If you truly wanted to help your sister you would appreciate her for what she is.

And that's exactly what this thread is about, trying to appreciate and understand her so that perhaps, someday, I can relate to her, sit down in a room with her, and actually have a conversation with her, and make my parents so happy that they tear up when they see it.

MALE and FEMALE SLE/ESTp's are completly different according to an article I just read, so I really don't think my description of what we are will help. But if she's anything like me she would rather you stop trying to compare yourself to her.

The comparisons were from others, not me.

She has been winning contest her entire life, she's going to be this way. The best thing to get along with her is not to feed her bullshit, because she knows the difference. Arguing with her will make a situation worse, because in her eyes she is taking all the practical and logical evidence and applying towards the subject to come to a conclusive answer. Therefore, whatever she says is probably right and you are probably wrong. keyword=probably.

This is precisely why I have so much difficulty relating to and dealing with SLE's. "all the practical and logical evidence" in the SLE world only relates to Sensory things, not iNtuititve things. here is how it goes.

1) SLE states their opinion/view with primarily Se/Si viewpoints.
2) LIE (me) states mine with primarily Ne/Ni viewpoints.
3) SLE does not see or accept that Ne/Ni even exists
4) SLE says my points are bullshit, I'm stupid, a moron, yadda yadda
5) SLE gets themselves into trouble again, maybe due to not seeing Ne/Ni viewpoint.
6) SLE starts with "it's not my fault that..." shifting the blame away.
7) LIE (me): sigh...

So I've learned to avoid SLE's in general because of this or if I can't, to at least avoid arguing with them because it's utterly pointless for me, especially my own sister. Anytime I open my mouth with her I almost immediately get the "you're so stupid" or "STFU" standoffish look even if I'm just trying to make conversation. Maybe it's something beyond a personality conflict, but I don't know. It's not possible to argue with her if I can't even talk to her in the first place. My father (INTj) has pretty much the same problem just trying to talk to her.

SLE's tend to live in the moment though. They don't think about the mistakes of yesterday, nor the consequences tomorrow. Just right now. So maybe they don't care, and they're perfectly happy with this. NT's are strategic long-range thinkers though, and that's probably a big part of the conflict. Any decision I make today, I'm also thinking about consequences of that decision months if not years or decades down the road. So if they don't care, why should I? So now I'm indifferent and just try to avoid whenever possible. But I'd still like to have some sort of "normal" relationship with my sister if I can...

I can't seem to get along with my brother, simply because he is always comparing himself to me and I am 7 years younger. I don't like that in itself and the fact that he would even do that is pathetic. I just tell him now and days "I don't want to hear it" when he tries to spark an argument or compare himself to me. I would assume that if your sister did this it would help as well. Also, blaze has an estp husband she might be able to tell you more about them.

Well, it's not about trying to compare. I wouldn't do that, and I haven't even really spoken to my sister in 10 years. Although maybe others in my family do. Maybe my parents try to say to her "you should be more like your brother", which pisses her off, and builds resentment both towards her and towards me. The rare times my sister and I are in the same room I can just feel the negativity from her towards me and I have no clue where the hell it's coming from. If my wife and I are together, she usually leaves the room. I think the scenario above that I mentioned with my parents could be for real, so I'll have to ask them about it.

I very much understand that she's going to run and live her life the way SHE wants to run it and doesn't want anybody telling her what to do, or how she should be. I never did this to her, as I'm her "little brother". Who am I to be giving my "big sis" advice? My dad says she's "FIERCELY" independent, and he's INTj. I think maybe he does try to tell her how to live and what to do. Since I'm similar to my dad and he and I do get along very well, he might use me as an example, and that could be where the resentment comes from. I don't know....


Anyways, I'm glad you're hear BigEars. :wink: