Female IEIs, how many kids do you want?

[bye]

.

[The Reality Denialist]

Can IEI's push out babies?

[Memento Mori]

I wanna have a lot of kids. like 7 atleast. My ambitions are so great that they spran over many generations, I want to create something that will last for centuries, a tribe of superior human beings. I am better than everyone else. Ofcourse you don't believe me, because all guys act like they're the best, but I am truly amazing, ask anyone that knows me. I could easily beat an entire group of guys by myself. I'm 6'6, I'm a trained martial artist, and not only that, I'm smart and I'm gonna be rich, and a rock star. Again, you don't believe me, but this is all true. Yes, I have a metal band, and no it's not just another band, it's gonna be very good. And I have a promising career ahead of me. Even if I didn't have a promising career ahead of me it wouldn't matter because I have a lot of money.

So basically, I have this idea that female IEIs aren't really family types. They're not the type of women that want to live the traditional life and have many kids and start a family. Idk if it's true because I don't really know that many IEIs, but that's the idea I have of them. So basically, I wanna know if I'm wasting my time thinking about IEIs, or if I could do socionics dualization while reaching my goals, or if I should just forget about it and get a more traditional woman.

Headstrong, but I respect the sheer mass of nutsack in this post. You will be a great man, Vik. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I've yet to meet a truly traditional IEI female, but writing them off entirely might not be necessary. Sometimes what the system says is a positive IR may have good compatibility of views/attitudes, but lack chemistry/attraction. Sometimes people with ostensibly great chemistry lack the compatibility necessary for longevity (and having so many children indeed requires the utmost longevity). There is more to human relations than Socionics can capture. Don't rely on duality to fulfill your innermost ideals, as, with prudence, your will shall find it's way to the best options.

In terms of positive IRs that may be more willing to be traditional mothers, SEI (your mirage) and LSI (your mirror) may be decent options, IR wise, for you (though some authors claim LSI can be quite married to their career/prospects, and resent having to part with them). That said, ILI is also not generally associated with being a stay-at-home Mother, but I've lucked out in that regard, so perhaps IEI can come through for you as well.

Either way, if you make yourself such an attractive suitor, finding a decent woman should be far less difficult - the issue will then become which of them gives you their loyalty and loves you for you, and which of them are opportunistically after a convenient suitor. Your ideal requires extreme discernment if you want that large family to stand the test of time, and the state of 'dating' has never been more shallow and dehumanizing. Be cautious, and don't settle for less than the best, man.

[Adam Strange]

OK, time to get out the statistics.

I know about nine IEI's IRL; six females and three males.

Males:
1. 0 kids, married to an LSE.
2. 0 kids, married to an ???
3. 2 kids, married to an LSE then divorced.

Females:
1. 1 kid, gave the baby away. Married a different guy, an IEI, then divorced him.
2. 2 kids, married to an SEE.
3. 0 kids, married to an ??? and then divorced. Now with an IEI.
4. 2 kids, married to an SLE.
5. 2 kids, married to an ILE then divorced, one kid is trans.
6. 0 kids, divorced, now has an SLE BF.

[Alonzo]

What do you define as "traditional" as it pertains to what you seek in a mate? Would you expect for your wife to essentially take on the lion's share of the child rearing in the "S" sense (attending to their health and physical concerns, cleaning, cooking, driving them around, etc...)? If so, and you're hellbent on the 7 kids, I'd say find an SEI and call it a day. If MBTI statistics are to be trusted (and I believe they are), there aren't enough IEIs for every SLE, anyway, whereas SEIs are fairly common and therefore more easily accessible.

I know several SLEs, 2 of whom are married to IEIs with no more than 3 children each, and it's definitely the SLEs who are rather remarkably hands-on and involved (as far as "S" matters) in the rearing of the children. They work 50+ hours a week AND somehow find the time and energy to coach their kids' games, go on a fuckton of Se adventures, enforce the IEIs' disciplinarian values, cook dinner when necessary or for the fun of it, and do all that shit--the miracles of 4D Se. If anything, the IEIs are the "heart" of the family unit and attend to everyone's "higher" needs. But I honestly don't believe that any intuitive type, and damn sure not the introverted breed, are built to actively take on the "S" concerns of a pack of giant babies. If you can find a IEI willing to comply with that, then at the very least, you better be willing to supply S support, whether that be you, yourself, or with hired or out sourced help.

[lynn]

you could still pay a housekeeper to take care of the house (if you are that rich as you say you'll be) and marry whoever you want.

[Adam Strange]

I keep thinking me and IEIs have different goals and that it wouldn't work out, but everytime I chat with them online about stuff that I think is important, they always say the same things that I usually say. I haven't really talked with them a lot irl, and maybe I just assume that they have different ideas than me. Because it seems to me that they are a lot into the idea of falling in love and having deep meaningful connections etc. I'm not really a relationship person, and when I hear them talk about their relationships, or when I see them together with someone, it makes me feel like I wouldn't have anything to give them in a relationships like that. I'm the least romantic person on the planet, and I'm not very sexual either. Everything is just a big project to me, I don't have a lot to give emotionally. Idk if I've been mistyping people irl or if I really am as incompatible as it seems, but again I keep agreeing with them about life stuff online.

The reason I want that many kids like that is because I despise the common idea of family life. I hate the idea of all the complicated and annoying shit you have to do in order to raise children in the modern way, as if raising kids is brain surgery and this enormous responsibility and burden. I also hate how modern family life is so detached and meaningless. Like you just raise your kids to be an individual and then they just spend time isolated in their room and they are only near you because they need your resources. I personally associate that kind of situation with having few kids. You have one kid so you put all your effort into making it a perfect individual, and possibly helping it too much to the point where it's a detriment for it. The only way I want a family is if I get to do it my own way, so I won't hate my children and I'll actually enjoy it. And I want it to be meaningful, and if there's more siblings then it's a more social atmosphere and more of a family. And if there's too many kids so they can't get enough attention from the parents, then they will get it from eachother, the older siblings help take care of the younger ones. I also want a stay at home wife, and I aim to earn enough so my future wife shouldn't have to work, because I don't think women should have to work. I also think that would be necessary to raise that many kids successfully, the idea of driving that many kids to and away from daycare and deal with all the problems that arise with that is really anxiety inducing for me. I'm also big into the idea of creating a big family tree, just having one or two descendants doesn't feel interesting to me

@Viktor, I have two thoughts on this.

One, IEI's like SLE's because they are so simple, emotionally, and it is refreshing to them to find a guy who just says and does what he wants, without a lot of machiavellian double-think going on. And who appreciates faithfulness for what it is.
So they like SLE's because they bring clarity to their lives, and SLE's actually get things done, which IEI's just dream about doing.

Two, I share your desire to be able to earn enough so the woman doesn't have to work (outside the house), but let me say, as a guy who was a househusband and raised one kid, that that was harder work than any job I've ever had. So stay-at-home mothers work. They work really hard.

[consentingadult]

OK, time to get out the statistics.

I know about nine IEI's IRL; six females and three males.

Males:
1. 0 kids, married to an LSE.
2. 0 kids, married to an ???
3. 2 kids, married to an LSE then divorced.

Females:
1. 1 kid, gave the baby away. Married a different guy, an IEI, then divorced him.
2. 2 kids, married to an SEE.
3. 0 kids, married to an ??? and then divorced. Now with an IEI.
4. 2 kids, married to an SLE.
5. 2 kids, married to an ILE then divorced, one kid is trans.
6. 0 kids, divorced, now has an SLE BF.

Exactly what one would expect from the Beta irrational dyad: stable relationships full of harmony.

[consentingadult]

I wanna have a lot of kids. like 7 atleast.

On some islands in the Caribbean this is more or less the norm, but not necessarily all with the same woman. In fact, that would be highly unusual. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about the female IEI fertility rate, as you can have children with multiple women! And if you're smart, like those guys in Carribbean, you don't even end up paying for these kids. You just spread your genes around. That should fulfill your SLE reproductive urges.

[YXPR]

I keep thinking me and IEIs have different goals and that it wouldn't work out, but everytime I chat with them online about stuff that I think is important, they always say the same things that I usually say. I haven't really talked with them a lot irl, and maybe I just assume that they have different ideas than me. Because it seems to me that they are a lot into the idea of falling in love and having deep meaningful connections etc. I'm not really a relationship person, and when I hear them talk about their relationships, or when I see them together with someone, it makes me feel like I wouldn't have anything to give them in a relationships like that. I'm the least romantic person on the planet, and I'm not very sexual either. Everything is just a big project to me, I don't have a lot to give emotionally. Idk if I've been mistyping people irl or if I really am as incompatible as it seems, but again I keep agreeing with them about life stuff online.

You don't have a lot to give emotionally to a woman so would rather give her 7 kids? If you are unable to show love to a single woman what makes you think you will be able to show love to 7 children?

The reason I want that many kids like that is because I despise the common idea of family life. I hate the idea of all the complicated and annoying shit you have to do in order to raise children in the modern way, as if raising kids is brain surgery and this enormous responsibility and burden. I also hate how modern family life is so detached and meaningless. Like you just raise your kids to be an individual and then they just spend time isolated in their room and they are only near you because they need your resources. I personally associate that kind of situation with having few kids. You have one kid so you put all your effort into making it a perfect individual, and possibly helping it too much to the point where it's a detriment for it. The only way I want a family is if I get to do it my own way, so I won't hate my children and I'll actually enjoy it. And I want it to be meaningful, and if there's more siblings then it's a more social atmosphere and more of a family. And if there's too many kids so they can't get enough attention from the parents, then they will get it from eachother, the older siblings help take care of the younger ones. I also want a stay at home wife, and I aim to earn enough so my future wife shouldn't have to work, because I don't think women should have to work. I also think that would be necessary to raise that many kids successfully, the idea of driving that many kids to and away from daycare and deal with all the problems that arise with that is really anxiety inducing for me. I'm also big into the idea of creating a big family tree, just having one or two descendants doesn't feel interesting to me

I come from a family of 5 children and let me tell you that while having a lot of kids sounds like fun to you it might not actually be fun for them. As a parent it is up to you to work on creating a pleasant atmosthere in your home. Coupling up with an IEI women should only make that task easier.

I'm not sure if you're serious or if you're just trolling but I'll take it as if you were serious because I have nothing better to do right now.

See the good thing about your duals is that their Fi dem allows them to understand other people's emotions almost subconsciously even without any clear emotional demonstration. You can honestly let go of your fear of not being able to give emotionally. Everybody gives emotionally, always. Some are just less obvious and more insecure about it.

And quite frankly, when I read all your posts and threads about finding the perfect woman I actually find you both vulnerable and emotional. Maybe you should work on bringing this openness that you have online in your real life.

You don't have to find the perfect woman in order to build the perfect relationship. Really you don't even need the perfect relationship in order to be happy. Finding an IEI woman for you to date and create a genuine connection with seems to be already complicated enough. Maybe you should focus on that challenge for now instead of planning out the life of a woman you haven't even met yet.

[Alonzo]

By traditional I mean she's gonna be the main person to take care of the kids and cook and not work much if at all, so yeah she kinda has to be able to deal with them. I'll be taking care of them too ofcourse and taking them on adventures and what not, but I'm gonna be the one that works and provides, so I won't have the time to take care of them all the time, that is what the woman is for. The idea that there aren't enough IEIs to go around so I should just get some other type that is more available sounds really sad to me lol, even if they were scarse I'd still go for them if I believed that it would would be the best option, but it seems like I'm essentially gonna have to be a stay at home dad if I were to have 7 kids with an IEI and that's not happening

The thing is, with your dual, you’re more cognitively susceptible to compromise/being swayed/influenced and so it’s quite possible that certain stances and hard lines you take now might be slightly amended or altogether thrown out later on–which might not sound like such a desirable thing to those of us who love to be in control. Personally speaking, I never thought I’d be tame enough for a traditional relationship and family structure, i.e., the wife, white picket fence, kids and dog, but a few of my duals made all those things seem possible and even desirable and I’m headstrong af about who I am/what I want; but duals have a way of disarming you, which is one of the ways that they theoretically aid in your “growth.”

Duals are supposed to provide us with the stuff we don’t know we want and need. My point is that if you’re seeking a dual, be aware that a significant part of their purpose is for them to “change” you to some degree, ideally in the sense of providing greater balance, which may result in a significant shift in priorities. Perhaps the IEI convinces you that instead of 7 kids and a rather lively home environment (where, in part, due to the greater potential for home instability and neglect there might be a few duds/social drains that negate the net benefit of the better adjusted ones lol), you have 3 "finely crafted” kids (with a lot more care and attention from parents who balance each other well and have created a more stable environment) who may be more well adjusted and therefore have better chances at "greatness," which might then lead to a more enduring “dynasty,” influence and legacy for your name and family. IEI would be concerned with making the roll out (over time) of your overarching goal/vision more successful and achievable VS. SEI who would be more concerned with and better equipped at providing the necessary physical/emotional support for your kids in the hear and now. Depends on what's more important to you.

[Aylen]

When the lust subsides, rethink the 7 kids plan @Viktor. You want to impregnate every woman on earth in, uh, certain moods.

[Aeris]

I have met people who said they wanted at least 10 kids, then had one and were less sure about a second one. I also know that the burden put on the oldest the help care for the yougest can be pretty bad for them because of the amount of extra responsabilities which can also lead to ressentment, and bad for the yougest, because they are cared for by children and not adults.
Your legacy is in all of your interactions, small or big, and will last far beyond what anyone can remember. How many of your ancestors do you recall, even in stories? maybe up to great-grand-parents, or a bit more than that. It's rare to have a well recorded family history, we aren't all the queen of england. It happens that people keep old pictures, it happens they dump them, it happens they give them away to places that keep historical reccords. What I mean is in 100-200, your concrete legacy will be fading into time, even geneticaly, it is how life is, even if you have a family that is studied in history classes, it fades and becomes distant quick.
You also have no control over your children's want of having children... my grandma is being a dick about the need of me having kids currently, yuk. What I want or not doesn't even matter and it's really straining the relationship.
Metal is great and I wish you success in your endeavors, also meaningfulness in your life.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

IME with str8 female IEIs they want to have kids and do- but they are more hands offy with their parenting and they sadly seem to end up more unhealthily fixated on a manipulative extroverted asshole that they can't ever really have. The more life of the party guy that goes through multiple women.

"bnd, isn't that like sooo hypocritical of you"

Not really. Because yea while both gay male/str8 female IEIs will do a Tex Avery wildtake when a hot tattooed SLE Chad with a criminal record walks in the room, ime IEI str8 females especially have it really bad in this regard, like driving almost every night by their house at 3 am and stalking them and falling way too much in love with the guy. And they seem really bad at separating fantasy from reality when they are too deeply in love. And not getting over personal grudges when the guy won't be more family man like or sacrifice more of his playboy lifestyle for her. Because I think the IEI women do want a more traditional life and stability, but they feel kind of incapable of creating that themselves in a way.

I'm not saying gay men are better 'in general'- but at least we tend to know that it's just hot sex and not something to really emotionally invest in. (I did see a hot 6 foot 6 guy at Target I wanted to fuck today lol)

IEI str8 females get all weirdly emotionally attracted so deeply IN ADDITION to being so physically turned on, and they can be wrecks in this area. SLE males also can be really nice to everybody (despite Fi polr cuz FI polr is a lot deeper than that.) and I think this can confuse IEIs of all stripes because IEIs are victim types and we can be used to being bullied or feeling made fun of- and maybe we are confusing somebody being nice and charming with us for something else.

This maybe how the duality works tho- 'cuz even if I like somebody I realistically need a lot of space and SLEs tend to give me that because they just want to do more extroverted party-ish things and rob banks and be porn star bad asses - more than they want to hang around my boring introverted nerdy ass.

Sorry about before. I didn't mean to imply ALL women in the world campily acted this way around men or anything lol but yeah, its quite obvious with IEI women lol. I think realistically, IEI/SLE couples might need coaching from deltas on how to be more normal and healthy or something. And to stop confusing infatuation with love. But yeah if you are Beta, acting too PC and delta News reporter ish is most likely going to be ... a really boner killer so idk.

[consentingadult]

I think realistically, IEI/SLE couples might need coaching from deltas on how to be more normal and healthy or something.

You really think coaching would work? I think the friction between SLEs and IEIs is what gives them the sense that life is worthwhile, existentially. For them, P!nk's song True love embodies their attitude:

Sometimes I hate every single stupid word you say
Sometimes I wanna slap you in your whole face (whoa oh oh)
There's no one quite like you, you push all my buttons down
I know life would suck without you (whoa oh oh)
At the same time, I wanna hug you
I wanna wrap my hands around your neck
You're an asshole but I love you
And you make me so mad, I ask myself
Why I'm still here, or where could I go
You're the only love I've ever known
But I hate you, I really hate you[
So much I think it must be
True love, true love

How would a Delta convince them that what is described here is NOT true love, but a dysfunctional relationship?

[sbbds]

I know two female IEIs married to SLEs. One has 2 kids. The other has 1.

I know maybe 4 other IEI women off the top of my head. They all have one or two kids. I’ve never seen or met their husbands, although I know one of them who has 2 kids is married to an LII.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Where I come from I would mostly see large families (think more than 4 kids) on church leaflets. They seemed calm, trusting, solidary people. That's when I was a kid, so I assume they did not have access to the internet. I don't know how the internet may have changed the ways of large families but I assume that if the parents understand the basics of what makes for a loving family, then things are pretty much the same. If you feel like having a large family, maybe you want to check out large families? Maybe there are festivals where big families meet or something and it would be a good venue for meeting someone. Also, if you are OK with having a wife who does not speak swedish, maybe you can check out other continents so that you can raise your children on euro money out of europe #finalstageofglobalizationetc.

Another idea would be to check out places like orphanages some sort of family-assistance venues which may attract females with a giving and family-oriented temperament who might as well be fertile

[flames]

Spread your mighty SLE seed all across the world, Vicky.

[Adam Strange]

No I want my children to look like me, so I'm gonna have a swedish wife, possibly norwegian. Definitely not danish. I mean, I guess I could find a scandinavian looking wife in the US or something, but I don't really want to leave. Funny side note, my great grandfather had 9 kids, and one of those kids moved to america to find fortune in the land of opportuniy and all that, but I guess I descend from one of the more stay-at-home-ish siblings. And actually I think like 4 of those siblings didn't have any kids, or atleast not grandkids, so maybe there's some trend where people with many siblings just wanna be alone and not make more kids. But atleast he created the chain reaction which led to my existence, and maybe I will be the new mighty all father that creates 9 kids again. Re christians, I've seen documentaries on polygamous mormons with like 6 wives and 20+ kids, kinda interesting, but those guys take it a bit too far lol

Yeah, Viktor, the Bolded. I have an ILI buddy with two sisters and four brothers, and he's married to an ESI-Se with like five sisters, and neither one of them wants to have anything to do with kids.

Personally, I'm with you on wanting to raise only my own genetic offspring.

[valhalla]

regardless of your sociotype, if you want a lot of kids you better start now, dude. like this winter.

[FDG]

regardless of your sociotype, if you want a lot of kids you better start now, dude. like this winter.

word

[FDG]

regardless of your sociotype, if you want a lot of kids you better start now, dude. like this winter.

word

Also, Viktor, in this thread you sound like an ESI not SLE.

[pjfry]

I want step kids

[lynn]

Maybe an ESE would be a better fit for the life you want @Viktor .

[lynn]

Who you really are and what carries on to the next generation is genetic, your personality is just a matter of what sort of mind control you've been exposed to, and I'm not gonna look for women based on if their mind control is compatible with my mind control or not

fascist mind control in your case

[lynn]

I'm not a fascist, I don't base my life on political ideas

If you bring some racial theories into the mix, then you are.

[Sol]

I don't base my life on political ideas

All ideas which affect your relations with people are political. And those yours are close to the said, according to primitive racist sympathies and some psyche specifics.

> So basically, I have this idea that female IEIs aren't really family types.

the problem is that IEI are not _your family_ types. at least, not the best one
for example, you are clowning too much for T types

[lynn]

I googled fascism, I'm not a fascist, and you can go fuck yourself for saying that I am. I believe in democracy, I don't want a dictatorship and I don't believe in using violence to meet your political goals. If there's any group that uses violence to get what they want, it's the marxists, and it's exactly they that call people fascists

The ideas you present here as part of the ideal life you envision, and which Sol called "primitive racist sympathies", were made popular during National Socialism which is a very fascist system par excellence.

[Northstar]

The ideas you present here as part of the ideal life you envision, and which Sol called "primitive racist sympathies", were made popular during National Socialism which is a very fascist system par excellence.

Maybe delta would be a better fit for you?

[lynn]

Maybe delta would be a better fit for you?

I have to disappoint you if you believe the primary criterion for being a beta quadra type is attaching yourself to half-baked, incoherent racist ideologies.

[Northstar]

I have to disappoint you if you believe the primary criterion for being a beta quadra type is attaching yourself to half-baked, incoherent racist ideologies.

Actually I was just observing your argumentation style including pulling the nazi card which I've come to expect from delta NFs.

[lynn]

Actually I was just observing your argumentation style including pulling the nazi card which I've come to expect from delta NFs.

If you mention racial and genetic compatibility, this is as close as you can get to Nazi ideas. It's basically quoting them verbatim.

[Northstar]

If you mention racial and genetic compatibility, this is as close as you can get to Nazi ideas. It's basically quoting them verbatim.

Those ideas are older than nazis and I don't see anyone promoting genocide or any violent means. Obviously genetics has a huge impact on us, probably more than the environment when it comes to innate characteristics.

[Asenath]

If you mention racial and genetic compatibility, this is as close as you can get to Nazi ideas. It's basically quoting them verbatim.

The issue is that genetic(s) (memory) affecting people is a concept that doesn't necessarily have to be connected to nazi ideologies. Conserving your own heritage and culture also won't immediately make you a nazi, especially when today everything is so fucking chaotic that people are having issues connecting to their own past, which leaves them vulnerable and miserable.

The interpretation of what Viktor said, and jumping to conclusions (without all the information you'd need) highly depends on your already existing viewpoint concerning the topic.

[Desert Financial]

I wanna have a lot of kids. like 7 atleast. My ambitions are so great that they spran over many generations, I want to create something that will last for centuries, a tribe of superior human beings. I am better than everyone else. Ofcourse you don't believe me, because all guys act like they're the best, but I am truly amazing, ask anyone that knows me. I could easily beat an entire group of guys by myself. I'm 6'6, I'm a trained martial artist, and not only that, I'm smart and I'm gonna be rich, and a rock star. Again, you don't believe me, but this is all true. Yes, I have a metal band, and no it's not just another band, it's gonna be very good. And I have a promising career ahead of me. Even if I didn't have a promising career ahead of me it wouldn't matter because I have a lot of money.

So basically, I have this idea that female IEIs aren't really family types. They're not the type of women that want to live the traditional life and have many kids and start a family. Idk if it's true because I don't really know that many IEIs, but that's the idea I have of them. So basically, I wanna know if I'm wasting my time thinking about IEIs, or if I could do socionics dualization while reaching my goals, or if I should just forget about it and get a more traditional woman.

Female IEI have a maternal instinct just like every other woman. If they do not express it by having children, they will express it in other ways (acting as a mother figure for others, creating ideas instead of children, courting Alpha NTs, etc.).

[Desert Financial]

IEI fantasy:
Go out

Have babies

Isolate

Indoctrinate

CULT

[SGF]

2 would be nice, more if my partner wants to. Not female tho.
Its not easy to find women however who want family these days. Idk what happened, ppl prefer to just enjoy themselves / hedonism instead of engaging in something meaningful such as having offspring.

e_e the IEI ex gf I almost married is 34 now, still no kids, plans not to have any. I broke up with her anticipating this would happen. Said something about kids being parasites last time we talked... -.- good riddance.

[spectremetrique]

2 would be nice, more if my partner wants to. Not female tho.
Its not easy to find women however who want family these days. Idk what happened, ppl prefer to just enjoy themselves / hedonism instead of engaging in something meaningful such as having offspring.

e_e the IEI ex gf I almost married is 34 now, still no kids, plans not to have any. I broke up with her anticipating this would happen. Said something about kids being parasites last time we talked... -.- good riddance.

What you consider as meaningful isn't a universal (moral) law, you know.

[SGF]

What you consider as meaningful isn't a universal (moral) law, you know.

O.o did I say it was?