Logically rationalize God

[Enters Laughing]

I agree that the "principle of sufficient reason" exists within Nature, but that is a redundant and convoluted notion that only allows itself to be used by those who wish to "prove" that Nature has a cause. If you have an isolated system such as the Universe/Nature, you have something that be could be described absolutely by an observer (i.e. determining the laws of nature), and thus every cause and effect within it. But such an observer could not then say that Nature also has a cause, given that they could not make such an observation.

I would say an axiom of science is that it must be based on observation, not supposition. You may disagree with that axiom, but it should be self-evident that if there is such a thing as knowledge about the phenomenal world, it must come from observation and not supposition.

Despite my view that causality exists in Nature, I am aware of the theory that the universe is holographic and that time is merely an illusion. Thus it may be better to say I find the idea of causality useful for describing Nature, even if it may not be correct (it may not be falsifiable either).

[Metamorph]

I have good reason to believe non-deterministic free will, deterministic free will, and determinism overriding will, and the not-often-discussed non-determinism overriding free will all occur, but no one here seems able to discuss that except maybe Subteigh, Grendel, and sbbds so that would be pointless.

For one, if I can't choose whether I want my personal will to be aligned with determinism or not, can it be free?

[Enters Laughing]

I have good reason to believe non-deterministic free will, deterministic free will, and determinism overriding will, and the not-often-discussed non-determinism overriding free will all occur, but no one here seems able to discuss that except maybe Subteigh, Grendel, and sbbds so that would be pointless.

For one, if I can't choose whether I want my personal will to be aligned with determinism or not, can it be free?

In my view, it is not possible to determine if we have free will, but this does not seem to matter to me. (Would it be bad for example if I found out that I had no choice over my tastes and inclinations?).

[Metamorph]

In my view, it is not possible to determine if we have free will, but this does not seem to matter to me. (Would it be bad for example if I found out that I had no choice over my tastes and inclinations?).

How can anyone choose their inclinations? I think 1. you can reflect on choices before you make them 2. will can have efficacy. Libertarian free will can exist if people want it, but it would always result in zero efficacy, so don't.

[Enters Laughing]

How can anyone choose their inclinations? I think 1. you can reflect on choices before you make them 2. will can have efficacy. Libertarian free will can exist if people want it, but it would always result in zero efficacy, so don't.

But I could not even say that I "choose" to reflect.

It is clear to me that those who say we have free will are highly conditioned to seeing their environment as normal.

If I "choose" to jump up, I will eventually fall back down with no "choice" in the matter. With that in mind, I am doubtful that anyone believes absolutely in free will.

Theists often say that "God" can do whatever they like, as long as it doesn't cause a paradox. But how is that different from my situation?

Finally, how can I rule out the possibility that the whole universe is my will, even if I am not necessarily aware of it?

..............................


"Yes I have free will; I have no choice but to have it." ~ Christopher Hitchens

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." ~ Stephen Hawking

[Metamorph]

But I could not even say that I "choose" to reflect.

It is clear to me that those who say we have free will are highly conditioned to seeing their environment as normal.

If I "choose" to jump up, I will eventually fall back down with no "choice" in the matter. With that in mind, I am doubtful that anyone believes absolutely in free will.

Theists often say that "God" can do whatever they like, as long as it doesn't cause a paradox. But how is that different from my situation?

Finally, how can I rule out the possibility that the whole universe is my will, even if I am not necessarily aware of it?

..............................


"Yes I have free will; I have no choice but to have it." ~ Christopher Hitchens

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." ~ Stephen Hawking

I said I think free will is just processes following my two given conditions. Libertarian free will can't exist in reality. However, insofar as there is a self, it can have agency, have desires, and engage in reflection. Denying there's a real self, even without knowing fully what it is, is a recipe for disaster.

I hope this isn't too heavy of a thought, too challenging because of its simplicity. Thoughts like that are strenuous, and this is probably not the ideal context for them even for people who are more than willing and able to engage them.

[Enters Laughing]

I said I think free will is just processes following my two given conditions. Libertarian free will can't exist in reality. However, insofar as there is a self, it can have agency, have desires, and engage in reflection. Denying there's a real self, even without knowing fully what it is, is a recipe for disaster.

I hope this isn't too heavy of a thought, too challenging because of its simplicity. Thoughts like that are strenuous, and this is probably not the ideal context for them even for people who are more than willing and able to engage them.

I can only really say that is all a matter of opinion that probably cannot be resolved. But to paraphrase Wittgenstein because I cannot recall the quote, (in his aesthetic judgement) the things that are a matter of personal taste are the things that matter.