Quote Originally Posted by Diana
You've said before that the INTj that you were with was not healthy, at all, so it'd be a little shaky to base your opinion of them on his behavior.
That stuff isn't the reason he was unhealthy though... it's just a manifestation of needing to be with a Cargiver.

Also, you typed your sister as ISFp for the very reasons that you're now typing her as an INFj! It's circular.
I think there's been a misunderstanding.... I don't think she's INFj because of her lack of standing up for herself. The stuff we talked about in that regard was stuff I realized after figuring out that she's INFj.

She's INFj because she's like this, and INxjs are like this, and she's an example. You say things like if you were the one married to her husband he wouldn't treat you the way he treats her. You know, that's an easy thing to say, but you're never in someone else's life, you're not experiencing what she has, you may think that you can say with certainty that such a thing could not occur to you, but that's just foolishness. I've known people who strongly believed the same thing, that they would never end up in any similar kind of situation because they wouldn't put up with that kind of crap. But they did. The public face of emotional manipulators does not allow anyone to see their devious nature. You don't and won't be able to get it unless you've first-hand seen and experienced it. I've always wondered about women who get themselves into bad relationships with alcoholics, or physical abusers and such and won't leave. Why don't they just get out of there? How in the world do they keep falling for the lies, why can't they see through all that? Someone adept at emotional manipulation is 5000 times slicker, more convincing, and far better at gaining outside support to turn against someone. It is NOT type related!!!! They could and do pull this on everyone, not just people of a certain type, and before you cockily suggest that YOU'D be able to see through it, that's a pretty sure sign that you'd be duped.

The kind of behavior that the two of you are talking about, the quickly and easily giving in, the lack of any opinion of their own, the allowing themselves to be run over top of sounds a whole lot more like someone who has a low or nonexistant opinion of themselves, or depression than anything to do with type.

INFjs CAN be martyrs, but rather than it being about not being able to stand up for themselves, it's more about doing too much and not letting anyone help them. Too much pride rather than a lack of it. April and I discussed this a little awhile back - it's in a thread somewhere in delta. At least that's how I see it. The Se polr - as far as I can tell means we don't want to dance in public
This is all pretty much a separate issue. I'm not talking about unhealthy "please abuse me" behavior. I'm talking about a regular Se PoLR. Like I said, it's not bad... it's just a lack of value for Se. All of us have 4 functions that we don't value. Basically what I was describing was NOT the INTj letting himself get run over or failing to stand up for something that was important to him. If something was important to him, he'd find a way to stand up for it, Se PoLR and all. INxjs are not incapable... they're just not my dual or Kristiina's.