Gulenko's Typing of Me

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Well, the typing is here, after months of waiting.

I was typed LSI-H by Gulenko.

The conclusion
So, the type of respondent is a balanced-stable temperament in managerial installation -
LSI of harmonizing subtype with R-accentuation (agreeableness).
Characteristic of such a person: sensitivity and volatility of mood, the ability to applied
arts and crafts, a sense of humor, a good imagination, the acquisition of experience, a
long search for self, philosophical understanding of life, a sense of lost harmony and the
desire to find it again.

I was typed by Timur Protskiy last year as SLE

So, we got the result sensory-logical extravert (SLE) ‘Conqueror’ on your socionic video.
You are definitely from central quadras (Beta and Gamma) since you have valued black sensation (Se) as an interest towards power balance, political systems, war history and conflicts, etc. Then you have black ethics (Fe) as a valued aspect, so in combination with black sensation it’s only Beta quadra.
The functions you manifested are (in descending order): sensation + logic + a bit of extraverted ethics.
Aspects are: Se, Ti+Te, Fe — it’s a set specific for SLE.

So EIE version is not relevant in accordance to our methodology, since you don’t manifest strong intuition in socionic sense of that word — e.g. you described pictures in super down-to-earth manner, while intuitive types tend to be much more abstract and metaphorical. Moreover, EIE type as a humanitarian type has deep understanding of human behavior +
is much more idealistic in his worldview (intuition prevails over sensation), while strong Fe gives super-realistic attitude to life (strong sensation is 100% feeling of rough material reality).
Your job is connected with your strong socionic function: SLE makes resource allocation in quick and efficient manner, which is necessary in any resource management sphere. While EIE is a humanitarian type with abstract worldview, and he is not good in efficiency or material resource control.

Well here's the thing, I read the book Gulenko wrote a while back. I determined my type after I finished it. I kept quiet about what I thought (as much as I could) until G typed me. This added to the torture lol.

I don't think I'm SLE or LSI. I think I am SEE-H, or SEE-Fi.

I no longer see EIE as a likely typing.

For a few reasons:
-I am not Si PoLR
-I don't value Fe
-I'm not EJ temperament
-My Ni (using G's definition) is lacking. This is evident as a consistent problem in my life.

So I'm posting this to let everyone know and see what they all think about it.

[Adam Strange]

@Eudaimonia, when you posted a picture of yourself, you looked entirely EIE to me. You have a soft, thoughtful, slightly questioning face that looks like you could go anywhere and become anyone. Your eyes look like windows to Neverland.

I certainly didn't see the restrictive logic of LSIs, nor the blunt Se force of SEEs, in that face.

Bear in mind that LIIs have unvalued 1D Se, so they have a hard time seeing the world as it flatly is, without having their Ne intuition abstract everything in the directions that they favor.

I think Gulenko just likes LSIs.

[Tarnished]

You feel like Fubuki or Tatsumaki?

Honestly I don't feel like you are SEE much. H/C subtype is possible though.

(Now LSI is hotter than EIE??)

[Ave]

@Eudaimonia, when you posted a picture of yourself, you looked entirely EIE to me. You have a soft, thoughtful, slightly questioning face that looks like you could go anywhere and become anyone. Your eyes look like windows to Neverland.

I certainly didn't see the restrictive logic of LSIs, nor the blunt Se force of SEEs, in that face.

Bear in mind that LIIs have unvalued 1D Se, so they have a hard time seeing the world as it flatly is, without having their Ne intuition abstract everything in the directions that they favor.

I think Gulenko just likes LSIs.

Adam, one photo doesn't mean anything.

[Ave]

@Eudaimonia

I don't know what your type is, I don't have enough information, the "image" you gave off seemed EIE but I know how easy it is to start behaving in certain ways that resemble the type we think we are. Hell, I find it difficult to type myself, even. Same with people I know well. I think it's easier to "see" the type when we don't know the person well, which is probably why EIE seemd to fit smoothly for you but people are complex.

It does seem like this typing, compounded with Timur's, got you questioning what you thought you knew about the system, my advice would be to examine their methods (and that of others) and then try to type yourself by the method that makes the most sense to you. You might find my article on this useful btw https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...hods-of-typing

[RBRS]

You have thrown at least 120 dollars to the thrash bin. Gulenko's methods for typing are questionable at best, and horrendous at normal rate.

Btw SEE could be, but LSI... you understand and manage situations related to ethics with too much skill to be an 1D-Fe type I think.

Edit: you can take IEE or ESE into account.

[Ave]

I'd like to add I agree with Timur that you are from a central quadra for the reasons he stated. In many of your posts you've mentioned power dynamics.

I think you might be beta. Why don't you think you value Fe? What does valuing Fe mean to you, and how do you tell (in your case) if you value it? Same questions for EJ temperament.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

You feel like Fubuki or Tatsumaki?

Honestly I don't feel like you are SEE much. H/C subtype is possible though.

(Now LSI is hotter than EIE??)

Fubuki>>>>>>>>>>>>Tatsumaki 100%

I love LSIs and EIEs, but I find myself more attracted the EIEs mainly because they are easier to spot and it probably has something to do with cultural norms too.

[Still Alive]

I think Gulenko often types IEI as LSI for some reason. overall it's just very difficult to type someone based on a short video. conversations would be better. Eudalmonia seems beta NF to me at first glance

[Tarnished]

Fubuki>>>>>>>>>>>>Tatsumaki 100%

I love LSIs and EIEs, but I find myself more attracted the EIEs mainly because they are easier to spot and it probably has something to do with cultural norms too.

Yeah...I think Fubuki is EIE-H or something. Tats is SEE, a very impulsive one.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

I'd like to add I agree with Timur that you are from a central quadra for the reasons he stated. In many of your posts you've mentioned power dynamics.

I think you might be beta. Why don't you think you value Fe? What does valuing Fe mean to you, and how do you tell (in your case) if you value it? Same questions for EJ temperament.

I like to maintain social harmony, I like to get people together and have a good time, but these things are just secondary to me maintaining relationships with the people involved. I don't necessarily care about making an emotional impact for the sake of making an emotional impact as much as I care about building a relationship with a certain person. For this reason I can't really say that I value Fe over Fi, deep down I know I don't.

EJ isn't quite a fit because I know my energy levels. I can be tenacious and plodding when I'm working toward something I want, but I know I'm not as active as an EJ would be. My default state is not active.

[Ave]

Awkwardly, I can relate to this 100%. I don't really make a point to make an emotional impact, I actually find it annoying and manipulative (it's mostly used as a form of deflection and entertainment for me). Stereotypical, dramatic Fe makes me want to punch people. However, I am not major on the emotional distance and connection thing either because of the pressure and expectations of consistent intimacy.

Saying that, the reasons that you don't relate to those things may stem from completely different motivations and thought processing than me.

For the record I have heard beta NFs say they prefer one on one connection to group energasms. I suppose this is not exactly the same thing you're talking about but I suspect Western Socionics (esp. WSS) goes too far in describing betas as seeking group interactions. It's almost like betas can't be interested in romantic relationships and would marry "the group".

Something is amiss.

[Sol]

I was typed LSI-H by Gulenko.
I was typed by Timur Protskiy last year as SLE

If you want us to join the party your video would help the best. You should have it already as gave to those above.

[Ave]

Yes. This is still very relevant though, because for the longest time, groups used to overwhelm me, because of the act of trying to process what each person is trying to say.

Not to be too derogatory, but the beta NFs, especially EIEs, who don't seem to care as much about listening closely to what others have to say and more focused on getting their message/idea across tend to do better in groups. It's not necessarily a bad thing. For the group-oriented people, they thrive more on idea building and exchange and blowing off steam than being in the "hot seat" with just one other person for too long.

Jack originally thought I valued Fi because I put a big emphasis on valuing my close relationships and trying to understand other people's motivations (Fi according to him) and being interested in human growth/potential, leaving a mark (Fi + Ne, according to him). So I am cautious with WSS.

I think trying to understand people's motivations, and being intersted in human growth and potential and "leaving a mark"(on people) are general NF traits, not exclusively delta NF ones. I think everyone values close relationships, to some degree or another. Except maybe hermits and sociopaths. I think WSS focuses too much on non-observable traits, most typing criteria is rather binary.

[Sol]

I think trying to understand people's motivations

Ne, F

> and being intersted in human growth and potential

such is for any types in their strong valued regions - a wish to improve it in others and to see lesser of "bad" there

> not exclusively delta NF ones

There is nothing exclusive, there are only types inclinations for some behavior which arise the quantity of that behavior.
For deltas is more attractive ideas to understand human potential from its traits (Ne) to get the use from this (Te), to make relations more pleasant (Fi), the life physically better (Si).
For Ni the potentional would be alike "you'll can do, I foresee this", for Ti would be talking about everyone's better occupation, for Fe about more decent life for a human, for Se m... how to conqure the world and get more money The similar result leaded by different ideas.

I saw IEI blogger which talked about the importance of finding your mission (Ni) as the mean to get higher income. Want more money (Se)? Ok - find and do your special mission in the life and you'll be supported in materia (due to your better skills and luck). While EII would talk alike "every human has special gifts" (Ne) and to use them is the way to more pleasant life (physically - Si, emotionally - Fi). Both types would talk about the same from different values.

> I think everyone values close relationships, to some degree or another

Types influence what people want in relations the most. Values are in opposing, and so people may accent wishes on some good sides and understeemate other useful sides. If to take beta, - there unlike with deltas, you should hear lesser talking about importance of friendship in pair relations. Betas may achieve the same relations through other values - they'd talk more about duties (Ti) and that it's decent (Fe) to protect interests of "your people". While about friendship they may say negatively alike it's in opposing with love or passion (though no reasons to think so) and they establish same friendship on practice - they just try overcome the importance of values as benefit (Te) and compassion (Fi), which the culture may associate with the friendship term the most. Different language for the similar sense.

> Except maybe hermits and sociopaths

The problem is wider. Today individualistic culture (including popular psychology) of West opposes to ideas that people may get great support from closer friendship with other people (some of them, at least). The result is that people mainly do not establish friendship relations even with own pairs and have surface pals relations only.
While "sociopaths", real ones, have lesser possibility to love other people, to get this support and hence lesser value relations.

> WSS focuses too much on non-observable traits

they seem use own theory besides Socionics, besides general problem of accuracy of today methods

[Rusal]

I like to maintain social harmony, I like to get people together and have a good time, but these things are just secondary to me maintaining relationships with the people involved. I don't necessarily care about making an emotional impact for the sake of making an emotional impact as much as I care about building a relationship with a certain person. For this reason I can't really say that I value Fe over Fi, deep down I know I don't.

That is a bit nondescriptive to ascertain Fi over Fe. If it helps, Delta Fi can feel like a kick in the stomach to Betas. An EII in a drama class can become a drag, s/he might feel extremely uncomfrotable doing an improv scene if they get the role of an abortion doctor if that goes against the beliefs. That was my experience with a woman in my drama class and I've come to type her EII, on top of the fact that my relationship with her quickly became stagnant save for the obligatory niceties. If you were Gamma, what I wrote maybe shouldn't feel that strange to you in practice, but believe me in a group of Betas when EII doesn't want to join the group play, it doesn't feel nice.

If you want us to join the party your video would help the best. You should have it already as gave to those above.

Your method is an approximation, but you put too much trust in it when at best it helps you 50% and the rest leads you to mistyping because you're overstretching your ‘findings’ in the laziest way possible and you think others with better insights into a type can’t read them better. Please. There is truth to non-verbal signs but it's down to the subtype, so it's better to admit you're getting close to type at best rather and that true typing is based on interaction than getting feisty defending your mistypes (that later come back to bite you in the ass). Either learn 64 or more set of non-verbals or focus on the ones that you really care about, that'll give you a better perspective. So much potential down the gutter because you can't be bothered to interact with real people and don't really understand the types. Speaking of which, what do you think I am?

Jack originally thought I valued Fi because I put a big emphasis on valuing my close relationships and trying to understand other people's motivations (Fi according to him) and being interested in human growth/potential, leaving a mark (Fi + Ne, according to him). So I am cautious with WSS.

Yes, I just wrote this in another thread. Careful with Jack Aaron. He self types ILE and used to ‘parade’ his Alpha SF girlfriend online, putting her in a sore spot as if training her to be better with Si The girl in question could’ve been Beta, for all we know. And the people he typed SEI, also (I've seen them on videos, they were probably typed by him).

[The Reality Denialist]

As per usual people tend to play a role on forums. I suppose if people ask opinion a near absolute honesty has to be assumed. I leave this at that because I don't know what has been going on.

[spacious]

First of all, thanks for talking about this here; hanging around typology communities I've gotten curious about how and why some find their type rather easily and seem to be like an exemplar of it, while others struggle for years to figure it out. Your experience gives me things to think about.

Having read your opening post, these are my reactions:

• I feel that you may be heavily/overly influenced by certain people (eg Gulenko's) definitions of socionics concepts, which you use as a yardstick to determine which aspects of yourself to highlight as most salient. The approach that I took was more like starting from a place of self-knowledge which I trust (main qualities about myself that I've observed over time, from own reflection and observations and feedback/input from others, that I didn't directly solicited for typing purposes), and then determining which type aligns best with me.
  
  • The way you've gone about it, to me, points towards suggestive Ti; not vulnerable Ti, as in SEE, and not leading Ti, as in LSI.

• Your comment that you're not active by default, so EJ temperament doesn't fit -- it's going to look different for ENxJ than for ESxJ, so I'm not convinced by your argument. Furthermore, if you're not active by default... SEEs are SUPER active in the world, I thought, no?

• The denial of having Si polr -- Hm. Ok, then why collapse different things about yourself under the Si polr framing in recent posts... How much of that did you actually not mean, while working to not spoil for us that you think you're SEE? Moreover, I have to wonder to what extent you would accept and believe you're EIE if Gulenko had typed you EIE... or, do you (think you're EIE) and you're playing with us here, only to reveal the next move soon?

• I find EIE's comments about not relating to Fe as it's conventionally portrayed either telling. If I were you, I'd listen to her and other reasonably-accurately-typed EIEs. It seems that this could help you see how someone can be of a type without "relating to" certain ways IEs are discussed by some (that one may have heretofore found authoritative).

• Regarding your comment that you have weak Ni and it's a consistent problem in my life -- honestly, I feel that anyone could say this. It's not like Ni egos don't make life trajectory mistakes. Plus, if you are EIE, then maturing the "second function" is a process of maturity anyway.

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts here and I wish you all the best in working this out and finding peace and contentment in all areas of life

[EUDAEMONIUM]

That is a bit nondescriptive to ascertain Fi over Fe. If it helps, Delta Fi can feel like a kick in the stomach to Betas. An EII in a drama class can become a drag, s/he might feel extremely uncomfrotable doing an improv scene if they get the role of an abortion doctor if that goes against the beliefs. That was my experience with a woman in my drama class and I've come to type her EII, on top of the fact that my relationship with her quickly became stagnant save for the obligatory niceties. If you were Gamma, what I wrote maybe shouldn't feel that strange to you in practice, but believe me in a group of Betas when EII doesn't want to join the group play, it doesn't feel nice.

This wouldn't really be all that strange to me, but I don't think it really matters in determining valued functions.

First of all, thanks for talking about this here; hanging around typology communities I've gotten curious about how and why some find their type rather easily and seem to be like an exemplar of it, while others struggle for years to figure it out. Your experience gives me things to think about.

Having read your opening post, these are my reactions:

• I feel that you may be heavily/overly influenced by certain people (eg Gulenko's) definitions of socionics concepts, which you use as a yardstick to determine which aspects of yourself to highlight as most salient. The approach that I took was more like starting from a place of self-knowledge which I trust (main qualities about myself that I've observed over time, from own reflection and observations and feedback/input from others, that I didn't directly solicited for typing purposes), and then determining which type aligns best with me.
  
  • The way you've gone about it, to me, points towards suggestive Ti; not vulnerable Ti, as in SEE, and not leading Ti, as in LSI.

Who's definitions should I use? Yours? I use enough sources to determine my type, not just Gulenkos. You said you use personal experience and feedback from others, you must be Ti suggestive as well.

• Your comment that you're not active by default, so EJ temperament doesn't fit -- it's going to look different for ENxJ than for ESxJ, so I'm not convinced by your argument. Furthermore, if you're not active by default... SEEs are SUPER active in the world, I thought, no?

What is "super active"? What qualifies as "super active" versus just active? What types are the most active and what types are inactive? These are just rhetorical questions, I don't need an answer. Also I wasn't making an argument and I couldn't care less if you are convinced.

• The denial of having Si polr -- Hm. Ok, then why collapse different things about yourself under the Si polr framing in recent posts... How much of that did you actually not mean, while working to not spoil for us that you think you're SEE? Moreover, I have to wonder to what extent you would accept and believe you're EIE if Gulenko had typed you EIE... or, do you (think you're EIE) and you're playing with us here, only to reveal the next move soon?

No clue what you're on about here.

• I find EIE's comments about not relating to Fe as it's conventionally portrayed either telling. If I were you, I'd listen to her and other reasonably-accurately-typed EIEs. It seems that this could help you see how someone can be of a type without "relating to" certain ways IEs are discussed by some (that one may have heretofore found authoritative).

• Regarding your comment that you have weak Ni and it's a consistent problem in my life -- honestly, I feel that anyone could say this. It's not like Ni egos don't make life trajectory mistakes. Plus, if you are EIE, then maturing the "second function" is a process of maturity anyway.

You don't know me, you know that I typed EIE and you feel like I need to convince you that I'm not. I don't relate to Fe because I don't relate to Fe. How do you know? Because I told you. Just as I don't have strong Ni because I know myself and I know what Ni is. Speculating about how I could possibly be an EIE who doesn't like Fe and has a mature Ni or whatever is just that speculation for speculation's sake. I said what I value, implying I really don't is either calling me a liar or stupid or both.

[spacious]

Hey,

We don't know each other, and I mistakenly thought that responding to the thread's ask for what people think with my honest thoughts might usefully help the conversation you started. Not because I think you're stupid or a liar; I think that self-knowledge and typology are very tricky endeavors and finding the right type can be a confusing and circuitous process.

Based on my limited observations of you in the forum, I was indeed not ready to let go of EIE as a likely typing for you, and thought I could respond to the reasons you gave for this. I'm truly sorry that I misinterpreted the context and came across disrespectfully. I will behave better in future similar discussions on the forum about typings.

Thank you for the response.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Ok so the case settled? it's cool that you have renewed confidence in your typing... meaning SEE.

For myself, I was 95% of the EIE (ENFJ) typing for the past decade or so because things aligned pretty well outside of the caricature descriptions. I also had a very clear idea at what ages I developed Fe, Ni, Se, Ti, etc and how.

I chose EIE from taking online tests and caricature descriptions. I can't tell you how I developed through my life, I just feel like I was the same for the most part.

This really has me thinking.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Hey,

We don't know each other, and I mistakenly thought that responding to the thread's ask for what people think with my honest thoughts might usefully help the conversation you started. Not because I think you're stupid or a liar; I think that self-knowledge and typology are very tricky endeavors and finding the right type can be a confusing and circuitous process.

Based on my limited observations of you in the forum, I was indeed not ready to let go of EIE as a likely typing for you, and thought I could respond to the reasons you gave for this. I'm truly sorry that I misinterpreted the context and came across disrespectfully. I will behave better in future similar discussions on the forum about typings.

Thank you for the response.

I don't think your intention was to be disrespectful, I would have ignored it if that seemed to be the case. Ah well, I was being too sensitive. I apologize.

Well ok, I read back and I see what you mean. How are you supposed to take anything I say seriously? I'm talking about being Si PoLR, what was that? Si PoLRs related to it. I don't think I have Si PoLR even though I neglect Si. I know my body's limits, I know when to rest, how to take preventative measures for my health, etc. I just ignore that aspect. I mean I have been in between SEE and EIE for a while now, I've made several threads about Si PoLR before. It is something that just doesn't add up with me. I know how to take cares of others, I do and do it well. I can predict where someone is feeling pain and the origin of it. I mean I could keep listing things, but in the end there is an element of trust that I am telling the truth but I get the doubt.

So as I said before I've been juggling SEE and EIE for a while. EIE seemed to make sense, tests said so, and others told me it did. Yeah I see why that seems Ti suggestive, in fact that's how I rationalized it in the past. I wanted to learn more about the system, so I read more about it. Lead Fe is a really hard sell for me and it always was. I see that there is a need for skepticism, but I know about Fe I am not operating on a puerile Fe = "HAHAHAHA look at me" type definition.

When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.

So this is something I do, I know I do, and others tell me I do. But the thing is SEE has 4d Fe as well. So I think it's a little moot.

demo Fe fits me more

The individual appreciates situations where people are enjoying a positive emotional atmosphere as in having fun and joking together, and is quite adept at creating them himself, but does not see creating or promoting them a top priority, nor does he actively look for people who maintain or need such an atmosphere; too high a focus on that is seen by the individual as overdone.

So I can "do" Fe, but its a means to an end, not an end in itself. Well, this sort of difference I don't think is that obvious on the forum.

EJ never fit, its just not me. My behavior fits flexible maneuvering. Its always been another hard pill to swallow about the EIE typing. I wouldn't say I'm inactive but my energy level isn't consistent like a rational type.

And the biggest bomb, that my Ni is weak. People see me as IEI or EIE. 1d Ni is may seem strange. Apart from talking about astrology and esoteric things my Ni just isn't there. I can appreciate those things, but I don't create them or contribute much to them. A lot of the time I was "using" Ni, it felt so forced and fake. When I went and asked myself is this really something that is in your ego, I could not say yes.

Being as the SEE is more of a day-to-day, moment to moment type of person, they can suffer great difficulty regarding the long term consequences of their actions. People who they respect as having a firm grasp of the unfolding of events are considered very helpful to the SEE. When the SEE brings such a person into their fold, much trouble and wasted time and energy can be avoided due to such foresight, as opposed to the SEEs usual "try everything and see what works" method of solving problems.

This is something that has been a consistent problem in my life. I thought it could be low Ti and role Te, but its really just low intuition.

So my point is, before I go on too long, is that I never really looked within to see what it is I value. I kept avoiding reading and introspecting and opted to take some multiple choice test, or submit a video for someone to type me. When I did look inside myself I realized that there was a lot of things that I tried to take on that aren't me. Now I know this all may sound EIE, but any type can trick themselves into believing something they want to be true. I forced myself to reevaluate who I really am. I read through the literature and made a decision on my own so its pretty solid in my mind.

The typing by Gulenko really just showed me that when it comes to my type I'm the one to trust when its all said and done . Feel free to tell me what you think.

[Sol]

I don't think I have Si PoLR even though I neglect Si.

It's doubtful to know _directly_ and clearly what function is your "polr". You may understand dichotomies, it's harder for values (without IR). Not more.

> I know my body's limits

Without positive IR checking with many people you may easily mistake. Mistakes in own types happen even by those who knows theory for years.

You've made a typing thread and did not give appropriate typing materials. So it's impossibly to help you with acceptable accuracy. In case you did not wanted this help, there was no use to make such threads.
To trust what you or someone thinks about your type has not much use too, as general typing matches are low to show rather low accuracies.

Your type can be any.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

It's doubtful to know _directly_ and clearly what function is your "polr". You may understand dichotomies, it's harder for values (without IR). Not more.

> I know my body's limits

Without positive IR checking with many people you may easily mistake. Mistakes in own types happen even by those who knows theory for years.

You've made a typing thread and did not give appropriate typing materials. So it's impossibly to help you with acceptable accuracy. In case you did not wanted this help, there was no use to make such threads.
To trust what you or someone thinks about your type has not much use too, as general typing matches are low to show rather low accuracies.

Your type can be any.

This is my third typing thread and none of them had any videos and they never will

[adage]

I did like this thing before of asking people to describe a walk through the park/city/wherever, would you do it?
I'm curious to see what comes out of it.

[aixelsyd]

Gulenko seems to type a lot of people as LSI.

[spacious]

The typing by Gulenko really just showed me that when it comes to my type I'm the one to trust when its all said and done . Feel free to tell me what you think.

aw I love this conclusion! and wish i could've showed more alignment with it in my previous post, I was just coming from a different place at the time i guess.

let me get back to you after a little while, i learned a lot today/it was a lot of new experiences and i have to work on something else before I can digest this stuff more. But I really appreciate the follow-up + elaboration and am truly glad to learn more about your process and history and such. and no worries on getting defensive, I know I came off pretty intense. Feel like we both learned some things or at least I did, so that's cool.

[xerx]

Gulenko needs the money to escape Ukraine. His school is basically mass producing typings at this point to milk Socionics for all its worth. For another $100, he'll even let you pick whichever type you want to be.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Ok so the case settled? it's cool that you have renewed confidence in your typing... meaning SEE.

For myself, I was 95% of the EIE (ENFJ) typing for the past decade or so because things aligned pretty well outside of the caricature descriptions. I also had a very clear idea at what ages I developed Fe, Ni, Se, Ti, etc and how.

I'm curious; what do you mean by "develop," and when do you feel you developed them?

[Tarnished]

Hmmm...

Harmonizing ESFP (Politician, SEE, Napoleon) subtype in Humanitarian Socionics

Politician Maneuvering

From the outside he seems very patient and calm, but inner balance is given to him with difficulty, heightened impressionability and inconsistency of feelings and desires are inherent.
He does not want to strain, to overcome himself. Prefers passive rest.
Heswitches on actively when he feels that it is possible to get resources without much hassle. He is able to conjuncture well. Knows how to adapt to the person, to offer him a good deal.
He is characterized by increased suggestibility, falls under the hypnosis of eloquent political speakers. Keeps track of his appearance, dresses up.

Creative ENFJ (Mentor, EIE, Hamlet) subtype in Humanitarian Socionics

Mentor Playing

Inclined to reincarnation in different images. Demonstrative, knows how to present himself. His mood is changeable. In a good mood, he is kind, lively, joking, and composes aphorisms.
In a bad mood, he is gloomy and irritable, breaks down on loved ones. He is attracted by a synthesis of opposites, transitions from a positive image to a negative one and vice versa.
Seeks freedom of expression, from clothing to lifestyle.

[RBRS]

I will tell you something; the most evident dichotomy on a type is the S/N dichotomy, far more than any other. Traits of the ethical and logical dichotomies don't contradict each other, nor rational/irrational, nor introverted/extraverted, as much as sensory/intuitive.

Nardi's research (don't take it too seriously, it isn't peer reviewed and hasn't been replicated, there's only Nardi's claims of it working) points towards the idea that there's more in common between types like, for example, LII and EIE, than there's between EIE and ESE, for the sake of intuitive functions.

I'm also seeing you correlating a couple personal traits to IMs that are actually not directly related, or are somewhat related but too much secondary, and taking them for primary determinants of your sociotype. In other situations I'll try to explain what IMs mean dichotomically but I think not much people are willing to go through it and would easily misunderstand, so I think sharing this video (very good video btw, although I really distate the speaker's rich bitch accent) will be more of help;

https://youtu.be/BBYAxPlpfQc

As a final note I think you should try to distance yourself from a type. You're yourself before being EIE or SEE, but sometimes typology can alter self perception to a point it becomes useless, overshadowing the real you and limiting or difficulting your self perception, which is a huge danger specially on sites like these where most users will even associate car brands or favorite colors to types. You seem to be still on your ethical dichotomy which would mean you're more sensible to this kind of thing as you have more difficulty in dealing with logical matters, so keep your guard and stay sharp, don't let something so vacuous and unsupported like socionics alter your self-perception or way you behave and see things.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Hmmm...

This is an excellent example of why basing type off of nitpicked snippets from descriptions can go very wrong.

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Something @myresearch said on discord was that I should go typeless and think about it for a little bit, I've thought about SEE as my type for a while but it's probably a good idea.

[Father Freedom]

Yeah, I support going typeless for a while (from experience). It just makes it difficult to identify what really is 'you' when you're constantly trying to audit your every behavior and thought. I think Wonder Woman's post is well-written (and not disrespectful, to be honest), and I can't help but think back to your Enneagram 9 (conflict averse, self-forgetting, escapist) self typing as being in conflict with the current perception of Se Base ("When this element is in the leading position, the individual possesses exceptional personal force/will.. ..These people are known for their striving to materialize their will, energy, and power, and for their desire to impose their will on others." - Aushra A.).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think IEI has been put on the table before as well. When the program function and super-id (suggestive function even) are interchangeable, that's reasonable cause for a break.

[AWellArmedCat]

I was typed LSI-H by Gulenko.

TBH I don't think he's a very good typist and don't trust typings made by him. It's funny cause I think he's not so bad with the theory stuff, but just not great at applying it

[AWellArmedCat]

Your forum presentation has been very Beta NF, but as I usually say, I don't know you people real life, and it would be very easy for me to interpret your online presentation as a completely different type from what I would think offline. I could see how SEE might be possible, but I'm not giving it my vote per se. I don't know enough about you to have a meaningful opinion

[spacious]

I don't think your intention was to be disrespectful, I would have ignored it if that seemed to be the case. Ah well, I was being too sensitive. I apologize.

it's all good.

Well ok, I read back and I see what you mean. How are you supposed to take anything I say seriously?

Lol, regarding this i think of how adam strange described ESIs - we remember everything. we keep receipts, b/c any information could be that which destroys us, haha. (since we can't predict the future very well) now, barely knowing you on the forum, i didn't have a sense that my fate was contingent on you at all, but i am interested generally in how EIEs experience Si polr, so when i saw you making Si polr related comments even jokingly in chatbox or random thought thread, my brain stores those as data, haha. That probably sounds creepy... i dont know, if something is of interest to me like that (like Si polr is), i will consider personal information given about it. So protecting against Ne intrusions, if someone changes course, i suppose i 'expect' more of an elaboration as to why that is no longer what they believe is their polr. Did you owe us that information- no, definitely not; but i guess i just felt slightly confused as to why you didnt say more about the revelation that youre not si polr, in your opening post. anyway, you went into it all below, though and i get that things got confusing, EIE was a hard sell, you were going back and forth b/t EIE and SEE. makes sense to me.

I think i might've seen you say (since making my post) in a past thread that you didnt relate a ton to Se? Sigh, then yeah, i do support myr's idea of taking a break from typology, it sounds like thats what you want too.

BTW the description of SEE that you quoted of "try everything and see what works" method of solving problems" interestingly does strike me as consonant with the trying different types on pathway. interesting - i mean, i see what youre talking about.

The typing by Gulenko really just showed me that when it comes to my type I'm the one to trust when its all said and done .

Self-trust (in a broader sense than typology) really is so huge. took me years to develop it. hang in there and thanks for the reply and back-and-forth.

[spacious]

love the signature, @Ferrum Pugnus

[spacious]

Something @myresearch said on discord was that I should go typeless and think about it for a little bit, I've thought about SEE as my type for a while but it's probably a good idea.

could be a good time to get into self-help literature (if that's your thing at all... ignore if it's not) or psychology or novels that get at truths about humanity that go back and forth b/t. the particular and the universal. m scott peck's the road less traveled is coming to mind; self-help industry can be difficult / problematic and endlessly justifying need more of its own stuff, but reading these kinds of works helped me a lot to feel less alone in my own struggles, try to put a frame on things, etc

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think Gulenko is a scammer that's basically conning people who are emotional types. ((to clarify I don't think he's 'evil incarnate' or a bad person, but a spade is a spade and a scammer is a scammer))

Often emotional types tend to have low self esteem (no offense to us) and will overly believe or trust in somebody when they say something in an overly logical and clarifing/declaring way even if it's actually complete shit. I've seen emotional types be in abusive relationships with logical type gaslighters this way all the time. I don't know. I'm not turned on by this dynamic and it doesn't appeal to me maybe that's a big part of why I'm still single. The fact that he typed you that is just hilarious to me.

I mean I don't know- I could go on but I believe strongly in the adage "it's way easier to fool other people than it is to convince them they are being fooled." But obviously yeah, Rose Nylunds of the world- just because he's charging you money for this shit and has professional credentials in other areas of psychology doesn't really mean he knows what he's talking about in socionics because it's not really an 'official' system of typology anyway. And just because he probably conducts himself like a stern & serious logical type does and doesn't inappropriately and emotionally rant about being gay like I do doesn't really mean he has any authority that he knows what he's talking about. Not that I do either, but then again I'm not trying to scam people out of money. Not until maybe I charge people for my video game when it's released in maybe 2035.