i watched the bone collector last night and remembered starfall's fictional beta thread. cuz the main characters seemed like super blatant LIE & ESI duals to me. denzel's character LIE, jolie's character ESI.
Jane Eyre and Mr Rochester ? I think Te-Fi duality, but not sure if Gamma.
Mr and Mrs Smith struck me as a quirky take on LIE-ESI duality. Pitt playing the LIE and Jolie playing the ESI.
Jay Gatsby Gamma SF. Dunno about Daisy, probably Beta NF.
why so?Originally Posted by Radio
I'm not sure, I always kind of took it for granted. He throws grand and lavish parties, is an excellent host, appears amiable and understanding yet still distant and secretive, has all the tact in the world -- and then on the inside, is emotionally unstable and almost childish in his desires. That to me encapsulates EIE as a type perfectly.
Even this bit in the book brought to mind EXFj:
If you're curious what I typed others in the book:
Nick Carraway - IEI
Daisy Buchanan - SLE
Tom Buchanan - LSI
Stringer Bell from the Wire is a dead on LIE
but yeah, this is kind of hard. Gamma's arent as abundant in fictional works.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Django.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Whats Django? ESI?
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
LIE
Balthier (Final Fantasy XII)
Pete Campbell (Mad Men)
Edmund Dantez (Count of Monte Cristo)
Mitsuru Kirijo (Persona 3)
Helen Morgendorffer (Daria)
Yu Narukami (Persona 4)
Danny Ocean (Ocean's Eleven)
Malcolm Tucker (The Thick of It)
Frank Underwood (House of Cards)
ILI
Minato Arisato (Persona 3)
Fran (Final Fantasy XII)
Lulu (Final Fantasy X)
Daria Morgendorffer (Daria)
Vincent Valentine (Final Fantasy VII)
SEE
Locke Cole (Final Fantasy VI)
Zell Dincht (Final Fntasy VIII)
Gau (Final Fantasy VI)
Yuffie Kisaragi (Final Fantasy VII)
Bart's Klauser (Final Fantasy V)
Chris Miles (Skins)
Vaan (Final Fantasy XII)
Snow Villiers (Final Fantasy XIII)
ESI
Jal Fazer (Skins)
Christina Gallagher (House of Cards)
Penelo (Final Fantasy XII)
Ashley Riot (Vagrant Story)
Last edited by Narc; 01-15-2014 at 11:16 PM.
Modern movies are abundant with Gamma characters, or so it seems to me. Just off the top of my head:
Kate Winslet's character from 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind' is a SEE, and so are Penny from 'The Big Bang Theory' and Joan (Christina Hendricks) from 'Mad Men.' Leonard from TBBT is an ILI. Mike and Rachel from 'Suits' seem to be LIE and ESI.
Penny is ESE, as is her actress. Not sure about Leonard, but not ILI.
Rachel from Suits seems aristocratic, so that'd scratch out ESI.
The narrator could be IEI. I have a hard time seeing any Fe "community values" in Gatsby. Only materialism coupled with some Fi idealism -- obsession with Daisy.
I don't think Penny is, myself being an ESE and having quite a few SEE friends. She's too brutal at times to be a true ESE. Her Fi is much more prominent and noticeable than her Fe; she doesn't make a lot of jokes, she comes and takes what she wants, etc. Of course, she's a fictional character in a long-running show and no matter how well-written her character is, she will have some out-of-type on-screen behavior. However, most of her reactions seem consistent with SEE.
Leonard is usually typed as LII, just like Sheldon, and I like him a lot but I'd like to see more different types on that show so let's think he's an ILI
I think Walter White is a Gamma NT. On the Breaking Bad thread, a lot of people typed him as Delta ST, but I think that's wrong. He shows clear disregard for his body, wanting to roll over and die instead accepting the chemo, and also in driving his car into opposing traffic. That shows weak Si, imho. Plus, when he says, "we're in the empire business" towards the end of the series...well, I can't think of a more Ni influenced quote.
I'm also inclined to type Jesse as Fi-ESFp, with most of his character's motivation being defined by his "flexible" ethics of relations, where he's in homoerotic love with Walter one minute and spurning him the next.
All in all, I think it's a pretty Gamma show, what with theme being a gradual unified progression (Ni) towards a comeuppance for ethical transgressions (Fi).
'Dexter' is a very Gamma show, too. I haven't seen it but it's a favorite among many ILIs/SEEs I know.
Also Saul (Mandy Patinkin) from 'Homeland' seems to be an ILI.
See i would think Winslet's character would have been SLE, with her abrasive communication style and her obvious issues connecting with others on that typical Fi level.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Yup.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I believe Homura from Puella Magi Madoka Magica is an ILI. Been a while since I've seen it though.
Crime and punishment: Raskolnikov INTp
Code geass: Lelouch gamma NT, Suzaku gamma
Bleach: Ichigo ESI
Naruto:
Naruto ESFp, Kakashi ILI
Well the explosiveness can come from an 8 that doesn't have their shit together. I'd jump straight to SLE for him if he weren't forecasting all the time. Definitely Se valuing, as he understands well how the shift of power works. Often gets coups started, but doesn't openly lead the charge, more of a puppetmaster.
ENTj 8w7 > 8w9, probably sx/so.
I agree with Ichigo as ESI.
Natsu Dragneel from Fairy Tail is a pretty blatant SEE. He values family and loyalty above all, and he'll knock the shit out of the opposition for betraying each other. He's also rather easily forgiving - as is the guild as a whole - befriending previous enemies who have renounced their evildoing ways and joined the guild.
I recall discussions on the WS pinning Nagi Springfield as SEE. He's basically the typical shonen protagonist flying by the seat of his pants and usually coming out victorious. I recall reading somewhere (TVTropes?) that this became an issue for him in Negima because he couldn't just "brute force" the problem this time. @Joy
LIE was tossed around for Negi Springfield;PoLR fits very well, but he's definitely not
base. I haven't read the series in a while, though. I recall him being a thoughtful, polite, and incredibly responsible child whose real talent turned out to be the writing/development of spells and who regularly ran himself until he collapsed when working toward a goal.
SEE, maybe, for his friend Kotarou. Same for Asuna.
SEE for Touta from UQ Holder. Typical "I'M GONNA REACH MY DREEEAAAMS OH HEY LET'S BE FRIENDS TOO BAD I'M MAKING YOU ANYWAY" protagonist.
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
uh...pretty sure he's not weak in Fi...
I don't see Se ego at all for Negi. It's been so long since I've read that manga, but the part I bolded definitely rings true. I'm not really sure what an irl LIE looks like anymore, but from a functional standpoint I like LIE for him.I recall discussions on the WS pinning Nagi Springfield as SEE. He's basically the typical shonen protagonist flying by the seat of his pants and usually coming out victorious. I recall reading somewhere (TVTropes?) that this became an issue for him in Negima because he couldn't just "brute force" the problem this time. @Joy
LIE was tossed around for Negi Springfield;
tertiary Fi in Raskolnikov looks right enough to me
And I'm pretty sure he's ILI, so what
Kilgrave....LIE-Ni
Last edited by Kill4Me; 02-03-2016 at 02:48 PM.
@Kill4Me, that's an ILE imo, not an LIE.
if it was an Ni creature, it likes Fe too much for LIE. => EIE
Last edited by marooned; 02-04-2016 at 01:39 AM.
Lucifer Morningstar from the new TV show Lucifer seems LIE.
Kiera Knightley and Steve Carell - Movie: Seeking a friend for the end of the world. Such an great example of ILI and SEE. 06dbc88b4937847a42874fe3881e3837.jpg
I'm just an effin ray of sunshine
Yep, pretty sure Dr. King Schultz was an ILI myself as well, he and Django seemed to have a good activation relationship going on in that film.
Also, Flamie Speeddraw from Rokka no Yuusha was a good female ILI as well. You really see it once Adlet realizes her HA during... well, I don't wanna spoil it but its a pretty good scene.
From my childhood...
Now that I think about it, I'd also nominate Ledo from Suisei No Gargantia for an ILI and Amy for a good SEE. I can't quite accurately type Chamber but it had to be a positive one given how it all worked out. Ledo clearly hasproblems yet very strongly expresses it where it matters most. He's a major fan of logic, but it's clear that his internal feelings are his motivating force. Either way, it was clear that the robot didn't resent its master (i.e. it was an overall positive relationship).
Annalise from How to Get Away With Murder seems ENTj to me.
SEE
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
@Anglas @Cuddly McFluffles
Kurosaki Ichigo: ESI-Se
Tensa Zangetsu: ILI-Ni
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