Illusionary/Mirage Relations: Stories and Experiences

[Exodus]

Yeah, my LSE co-worker and I get along quite well, joking around and complaining about our lazy co-workers, and it's generally a pretty secure and "safe" relationship. But when it comes to discussing more serious personal issues, it's like trying to bring the north poles of two magnets together -- we both want to go in completely different directions with the conversation, and have completely opposite advice and solutions to personal problems. I'd imagine neither one of us would feel very "supported" in a romantic relationship, despite feeling largely sympathetic toward one another.

Is that something like what happened with your parents, or were the sources of conflict different from that?

I think all of that applies, yes. Very different approaches due to vs . I can't really remember how the / complementation played out. I imagine it should have helped the relationship, at least initially.

[Suz]

I wonder how this would be different when the mirage pair shares Te and Fi. I feel like "relationship" matters would be much easier to handle.

Of note, pianosinger is apparently married to her mirage.

[pianosinger]

I wonder how this would be different when the mirage pair shares Te and Fi. I feel like "relationship" matters would be much easier to handle.

Of note, pianosinger is apparently married to her mirage.

And here I am!

It's worked out very well so far for me and my ILI. We'll be six years and counting come this May.

It's become a little more difficult at times since we've had kids, but all-in-all, we have a very close and satisfying relationship.

The part in the descriptions about "growing laziness" really applies to us, though. It is a little frustrating to think that neither or us is really living up to our full potential.

bbl with more.

[Krig the Viking]

I wonder how this would be different when the mirage pair shares Te and Fi. I feel like "relationship" matters would be much easier to handle.

Of note, pianosinger is apparently married to her mirage.

Interesting. I'm wondering if the rational-irrational divide changes things. I've read through all the old threads on the subject, and unless I'm mistaken the trend is that Irrational types describe it as a relationship of "growing laziness", and Rational types describe it more as "unfulfilling" or "superficial". Certainly I wouldn't describe my relationship with my LSE co-worker as one of "growing laziness" -- and yet that's exactly how you describe your relationship, pianosinger.

It would make sense -- Irrational Mirages would share valued Rational functions such as Fi and Fe (the elements primarily concerned with emotional intimacy), whereas Rational Mirages would not. Rational Mirages would share valued Irrational functions such as Si and Se -- the elements more concerned with physical compatibility, which I could see being somehow related to this "growing laziness" phenomenon.

hotelambush, would "growing laziness" be an accurate description of your parents, or no?

I'm going to have to go back through the old threads and see if the trend I'm vaguely recalling is actually there.

[Beautiful sky]

And here I am!

It's worked out very well so far for me and my ILI. We'll be six years and counting come this May.

It's become a little more difficult at times since we've had kids, but all-in-all, we have a very close and satisfying relationship.

The part in the descriptions about "growing laziness" really applies to us, though. It is a little frustrating to think that neither or us is really living up to our full potential.

bbl with more.

OK, how sure are you that he isn't your dual?
Dual relations are such that neither strive for anything exhausting. You can find the description of the relations on the socionics.com site.

Relations with my Illusionary (Mirage) are frustrating and shallow. If it weren't for Si, neither one of us would want to have any relations.

Usually, it's shallow because my Illusion partner does not favor productivity and efficiency and they pursue their feelings and that usually means not getting up to do Te before FeSi, especially Si, which frustrates me because I like Te first. I love relaxing and doing nothing (especially not having a conversation) with my illusion. Our conversations always lead into argument because we don't listen to one another and don't value the point of view of the advice one gives to the other because these points of views come from a whole other quadra and unvalued (ignoring) functional perspective.

[pianosinger]

OK, how sure are you that he isn't your dual?

Pretty Darn Positive. At least socionically. The more I learn about socionics the more sure I am that he is ILI and I am IEE.

Mirage really makes sense, too. I'll try to break it down into some examples of some typical socionic-based interaction:

1. I want to go out and do something, but he just got home from work and wants to unwind by playing a video game or watching TV or something like that. If I were an SEE, I'd probably assert my wishes in such a way as to prod his inertia, getting him to agree to go out with me, and we'd go, and we'd have a good time in our own way. As it is, though, I very rarely feel like being pushy in that way, so I just leave him be and go do my own thing.

2. Related to the above, when we do end up going out together, it's usually his idea (to go out, but we decide where to go together) and he takes his duty to take me out on dates very seriously. I'm thinking it must be his Fi-HA, combined with his Victim romance style.

3. I appreciate having a clean, tidy, and comfortable home, and put forth a good deal of effort in this respect (Si-DS), though there are times where I get tired and start to let certain things slip. He, on the other hand, is not overly concerned with it all-- unless things get to the point where the untidyness etc. is interfering with his own ability to function, at which point he will finally ask me what he can do to help. It's not that he wants or expects me to do all the work to keep the house nice, but since he is Si-Role, he is typically just oblivious to the "mess" until it becomes blaringly obvious. And since I am Se-Role, I don't like to be pushy or a "nag" about it. In any case, I don't mind doing the work-- as long as he's willng to entertain the kids when he gets home and give me a break from them, which he usually does.

4. It's his Ni-Base that is usually the more...annoying to me. Small crises quickly turn into doom-and-gloom scenarios with him, and he can't rest until everything is set aright again.

One example: He and I had our first rehearsal for the new Chorale season (we are in a community choir together). He came home from work that night, and I was supposed to have printed out some PDF music files that we were supposed to take to rehearsal with us, and I hadn't done it (printer was low on ink and I couldn't find a replacement cartridge). Well, rather than stay and enjoy dinner with us before it was time for rehearsal at 7, he insisted on going right back out and buying a new cartridge. When he got back with the cartridge, I made him sit down and eat some dinner (exerting my Role Se).

After he ate, he started printing out music, but the printer went wonky. At some point, my MIL showed up to watch the boys, and he was still having problems with the printer. At this point, we only had maybe 15 minutes before rehearsal. I started pleading with him to just give up for now and come to rehearsal and we'd figure out the printer problem later. We had lots of music to rehearse (most of it would behanded out to us at rehearsal, there were only a few songs that we were supposed to print and bring with us), we may not even get to the printed music that night, and anyway we could always share music with a neighbor for one night.

But he was still so hyper-focused and insistent that he would not show up to rehearsal without that music. Finally, I told him I was going to choir, and he could walk when he was ready (we only live a few blocks away, but we usually still drive because it's dark out and all). So I left. We only ended up singing one of the printed songs that evening, and I shared with a neighbor because it was the first song and he hadn't arrived yet.

But, usually such scenarios don't reach quite that magnitude-- consider the above example the worst-case.

5. He doesn't always understand my Ne-Base thinking, either. Like, I'll start spouting off random ideas that have crossed my mind-- like for home decorating, or whatever-- and most of my ideas are obviously impractical, but he still takes them seriously. Like I'd seriously go to the home improvement store and buy a load of gravel to spread on the boys' bedroom floor (hey-- it's their favorite thing to play with when they're outside).

Now, onto more positive things...

6. We really connect when it comes to Te. We both love learning and researching things. I'll pursue a topic of interest, and he'll pursue a different topic, and then we'll share what we've learned with each other. Sometimes, we'll even research things together, but not as often anymore because usually one or the other of us has to entertain and take care of the kids. We are both fascinated by techonology, and finding ways to improve the functionality, economy, and efficiency of things.

7. We also connect well when it comes to Fi. We both care a lot about family and other relationships. We try to invite friends over as often as our busy schedules will permit. Nothing big, though. We both appreciate small gatherings (and we have a small apartment), so we'll invite one couple or one family at a time and we enjoy getting to know them a little better one-on-one and deepening those connections. I also have a lot more success getting my husband to be sociable when people come to our home than when we go to other people's homes.

[Beautiful sky]

Oh wow. That is Mirage.

[pianosinger]

Oh wow. That is Mirage.

told ya.

In response to other PP's (in no particular order):

I have often wondered if the J/P dichotomy might play a big difference in how certain relations tend to pan out. Like, with Mirage relations, maybe Irrationals are more likely to have a good relationship than Rationals. And maybe Rationals get along better in a Semi-Dual relationship than Irrationals do...idk. In any case, I do agree that it's probably better when one is a Thinker and the other is a Feeler, such as is the case with me and my ILI.

I'd even hazard to bet that I have a better marriage with my Mirage than I would have had with my Mirror (I dated an EII once, I'm pretty sure).

[Blaze]

told ya.

In response to other PP's (in no particular order):

I have often wondered if the J/P dichotomy might play a big difference in how certain relations tend to pan out. Like, with Mirage relations, maybe Irrationals are more likely to have a good relationship than Rationals. And maybe Rationals get along better in a Semi-Dual relationship than Irrationals do...idk. In any case, I do agree that it's probably better when one is a Thinker and the other is a Feeler, such as is the case with me and my ILI.

I'd even hazard to bet that I have a better marriage with my Mirage than I would have had with my Mirror (I dated an EII once, I'm pretty sure).

agreed. i have noticed this myself.

infpman and i are in an illusionary relation which has lasted 4 years so far.

the good:

• we communicate well and nearly always find what the other person is saying as being interesting. we have few problems setting goals and making plans.
• our life style is similar in that we are more likely to want to be spontaneous and strive for simplicity. spreadsheets, data collection, and too much stuff is definitely not for us.
• we are able to trump one another in ways that makes the relationship exciting....we know our value to one another and accept each other's weaknesses.
• he likes my business savvy and i appreciate his emotional and people skills. it makes for some excitement and volatility and unexpectedness.

the sum up on the good is that we appreciate each other's intuition, find it comfortable to be together due to both being irrational, and we hold each other in check via Fe-Ti.

the meh:

• disagree a lot on about when it is time to do something. often, when i think it's time to do something he does not, and vice versa. sometimes when one wants to be close, the other does not, when one wants to go out the other does not.
• he becomes frustrated with too many possibilities that i throw at him. it makes him confused and feel overwhelmed.
• i become bored when he doesn't want to explore possibilities out there in the external world. he thinks my possibilities are unlikely to be any fun, and so misses the excitement he would feel around an Se leading.
• the result of above is that we spend time apart. the good part of that for me is that i'm usually the one that is out and it's nice to come home to somebody there. the good part for him is that he gets a lot of time alone, which allows time for imagination. the bad part is that our joint activities are limited.

the chafing here is due to Ne leading vs Ni leading. it's interesting to talk about differences in our points of view, but in practical application, sometimes it's hard to agree on what to do and when.

the ugly:

• hello??? where's my Si??? i need help to relax. or a schnuggle. by the time he notices, i could have gotten a pretty good back rub from one of the kids.
• hello???? have you ever heard of the word space??? this is what he would say, why can't you notice when i want to be left alone, open your eyes.

dual seeking needs are not met in this relationship. we do know that we are each incapable of meeting these needs though, due to understanding socionics. so we don't expect it consciously...we still both expect this unconsciously though, so when we have misunderstandings related to this, we can usually talk through them.

overall i think illusionary is a good relation for irrationals. i have not been in a close relationship with a semi dual but my former boss was one. we worked on some great projects together (Si-Ne) but ultimately, we did not get along at all. two logicals....not too hard to figure why we wouldn't get along over the long haul.

[Lobo]

I don't find anything particularly off-putting about ESEs. The only issue might be in handling each other's needs during stressful times, but even then, I don't feel like I have to rely on a SO in that regard. People seem to have different expectations of what a relationship is, or try to find fulfillment in one, rather than just accepting the other person as they are and if they can't solve a particular problem you have, then you just look for it elsewhere rather than putting pressure on the relationship. Si-creatives are attractive to me, and with enough self-awareness, I do believe that it can be a positive relationship to have, either it being with an LSE or ESE.

[Exodus]

hotelambush, would "growing laziness" be an accurate description of your parents, or no?

No...is that from a description?

[Krig the Viking]

No...is that from a description?

I checked -- looks like it's from the socionics.com description.

So far, it looks to me like the trend is to describe the drawbacks of the relationship thusly:

Rational: "Superficial", "unfulfilling", "shallow".
Irrational: "Growing laziness", "holding you back from your potential", "understimulated".

If I'm right, Irrationals would find Mirage to be a meaningful and fulfilling relationship, but one in which it is difficult to work together to achieve a goal, resulting in laziness and a lack of growth. Rationals would find Mirage to be a productive and useful relationship, but one which lacks intimacy and depth, resulting in a feeling of being unsupported and unfulfilled.

Does that sound right to the people with first-hand experience?

I don't find anything particularly off-putting about ESEs. The only issue might be in handling each other's needs during stressful times, but even then, I don't feel like I have to rely on a SO in that regard. People seem to have different expectations of what a relationship is, or try to find fulfillment in one, rather than just accepting the other person as they are and if they can't solve a particular problem you have, then you just look for it elsewhere rather than putting pressure on the relationship. Si-creatives are attractive to me, and with enough self-awareness, I do believe that it can be a positive relationship to have, either it being with an LSE or ESE.

Yeah, it seems to me that a significant aspect of whether a Mirage relationship will work is whether the people involved expect a high level of intimacy and mutual support from the relationship, or the people involved are self-sufficient and/or get what they need elsewhere outside of the relationship. Personally I would find the latter sort of relationship empty and unsatisfying.

[pianosinger]

So far, it looks to me like the trend is to describe the drawbacks of the relationship thusly:

Rational: "Superficial", "unfulfilling", "shallow".
Irrational: "Growing laziness", "holding you back from your potential", "understimulated".
If I'm right, Irrationals would find Mirage to be a meaningful and fulfilling relationship, but one in which it is difficult to work together to achieve a goal, resulting in laziness and a lack of growth. Rationals would find Mirage to be a productive and useful relationship, but one which lacks intimacy and depth, resulting in a feeling of being unsupported and unfulfilled.

Does that sound right to the people with first-hand experience?

Sounds right to me. Fortunately, we can achieve our "growth" working with other people, too, we're not just stuck with each other only 24 hours a day. So, it works.

We've had a great run so far. The first nine months we were married we got really lazy and didn't do much (except get to know each other better, which is productive in itself I suppose), as we lived far from any family and didn't know very many people. It's been a lot more fulfilling for both of us, I think, since we moved back to Montana.

[Lobo]

Yeah, it seems to me that a significant aspect of whether a Mirage relationship will work is whether the people involved expect a high level of intimacy and mutual support from the relationship, or the people involved are self-sufficient and/or get what they need elsewhere outside of the relationship. Personally I would find the latter sort of relationship empty and unsatisfying.

I don't see that as being mutually exclusive though. It's just being realistic in that no one is going to be 100% there for you at all times, or the exact way you want it.

[pianosinger]

I don't see that as being mutually exclusive though. It's just being realistic in that no one is going to be 100% there for you at all times, or the exact way you want it.

This.

[Krig the Viking]

I don't see that as being mutually exclusive though. It's just being realistic in that no one is going to be 100% there for you at all times, or the exact way you want it.

Well, of course. I'm just saying different people have different expectations for what they want out of a relationship. I'm not saying it's mutually exclusive, just that there's a spectrum ranging from "I need a lot of support from my intimate relationships," to "I don't need much support out of my intimate relationships."

Consequently, the people on the latter end of the spectrum are more likely to find Mirage relationships acceptable.

I would expect it has something to do with the Enneagram concept of the "instinctual variants" -- an "sx-first" person is going to need more intimacy and closeness in a relationship than an "sx-last" person. I have yet to figure out how that concept would translate to Socionics, if it does at all. It might be an independent scale.

[pianosinger]

Well, of course. I'm just saying different people have different expectations for what they want out of a relationship. I'm not saying it's mutually exclusive, just that there's a spectrum ranging from "I need a lot of support from my intimate relationships," to "I don't need much support out of my intimate relationships."

This is interesting to me. Because I think, when my husband and I started out he was more on the "I need support" end of the spectrum and I was more on the "I don't need much support" end; but coming together, I think I have helped him to become more independent and he has helped me to realize that it's okay to rely on someone else sometimes.

[Filambee]

To all the extraverts - do you feel like your illusionary/mirage type is kinda weird? Is thinking that your illusionary type is odd part of that relationship? What has been your experiences with your illusionary relationships?

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

my mum is Ni-EIE and she keeps bugging me for not going out and not being social in general.It often gets pretty nasty.this is my experience.

[Galen]

The only INTps I've known have been Te sub, so I don't really see them as weird. What I have noticed is that in some ways we can't really act "naturally" around each other; we can easily interact on an intellectual level, but when we're more just palling around nothing really ever happens. It's like there's something in the wiring of our animalistic hind-brains that just doesn't sync up, like we're too afraid of accidentally doing something considered weird by the other side. As such, I feel like we kinda have to keep ourselves in check, meaning we keep ourselves safe by engaging in intellectual interaction.

[pianosinger]

I married my Illusionary...He is certainly interesting, but I wouldn't call him "weird." Except maybe in a cute, slightly-mildly-aggravatingly-but not-really-seriously, endearing sort of way.

[Variant]

My mom and my church friend is ESI, definitely weird to some extent and I tolerate it well. They get all hyped up at wrong times and have a peculiar taste in humor..or should i say laughs at strange things. Other than that, ESI's are great

[Filambee]

I feel a weird vibe when I'm first interacting with an INFp and even when I watch videos of them on youtube. That's part of the reason why I think some people who say they are ISFPs are actually INFPs.

From having dated a couple ISTjs in the past, I suppose they are emotionally weird to me. They seem to easily get insecure about whether I like them—I'm assuming it's because I don't give off the right () cues.

I sense that insecurity from INFPs, too. When I'm hanging out with them, they will ask me if I'm attracted to them a lot. It's like they need reassurance from me. Sometimes they will even think that I'm ignoring them when I don't respond to their calls or messages right away. Also, when I laugh at little random silly things like I usually do, they start to get a little more insecure and think that I'm laughing at them. In contrast, my dual ISFp, smiles and laughs along with my spontaneous merriment.

[DirectorAbbie]

I grew up with my illusionary, so they're quite normal to me. They do have their quirks, though. Likes having offered, hates having it forced, but probably needs it forced. Not by a , though. That just defeats the whole purpose. My train of thought is probably hard to follow.

[FDG]

Well, no, I don't feel like they're weird. They seem to be interested in some activities which I consider as somewhat nonessential, and communication might become tiring over a longer timespan, but weirdness isn't a concept I could easily associate with ISTjs. In many ways, ISTjs tolerate the type of abstract weirdness which I produce in a much more noncritical fashion - compared to ISFjs (so if I were to be the reference point, they'd be "less weird"). Which - of course - is a negative part of our relationship (positivist / positivist), since neither of us has a real incentive to better hirself.
My mother is ESI and my father is LSI - my thoughts are often more "in synch" with my father, but they are less "complementary". Plus, whenever he talks about typical "male" things in order to bond I'm kind of put off (I don't usually give a shit about cars, or watching sports, etc.) and I can see he expects me to like that kind of attitude - even though I am also stereotypically manly being an ExTx so it doesn't matter that much in the larger scheme of life.

[krieger]

No.

[The Ineffable]

My first illusionary relationship indeed was a weird experience. But then we became common friends (then I made friends with a lot of IEIs, actually!) and currently IEIs are to me something very familiar, in fact they're maybe the type I can get most easily into familiarities, nagging, etc. But again, it is possibly because I know many of them. They're to me the guy you can take a walk with in the part and talk for hours.

[goggles]

How has been your experience in this type of relationship? Was it a good one or was it a bad one? What did they mean by growing laziness and was it a "warm and caring" relationship?

[The Ineffable]

It's really great, in my case. I think - in this case, again - it's more about the person than the type. She is virtually 100% what I wished from a woman, in the sense of the things that matter, and Socionics aside. Less so attractive to me is her "excessive" inclination towards spirituality, yoga & stuff and some differences in music styles (though not fully).

Obviously, I type her IEI, and she recently, immediately and without doubt typed herself the same, after reading the descriptions, bur without knowing my opinion on her type in advance. Otherwise I have considered IEE, LII and even ILE before. We are surprisingly like-minded in many respects, it feels like we have the same conscience but different and predominantly complementary roles, besides different history. However, even if we are this similar and I find her unusually intelligent, she is feminine and sexually she presents and unprecedented turn-on to me; this is an important factor in the compatibility of a cuple, IMO.

She VIs LII IMO and in the opinion of a friend of mine into Socionics: quite stiff and straight back, added to being inquisitive, dutiful, dilligent, neat, sober and very articulate - things that arguably transpire in her appearance.

[717495]

uhhhh

[Blaze]

This thread covers the mirage relation quite well. Interesting to read it through over the period of years that it's covered - started in 2007, 6 years old.

Infpman and I are still together, going on 7 years in December of this year.

We have learned to adapt to each other. My current worry is two fold: my ESE daughter is close to 16, the ILE is 11. It won't be long before they're gone. They bring alpha energy to the household. What will it be like for Tom and I when they're gone?

Second: I'm worried about retirement/old age, where paying attention to health concerns and being able to stick up for each other in the medical system could become more important. Neither one of us is good at it, yet we both need it. I've raised this concern, and we've had a trial run when I was dealing with a cancer scare last year. It went OK but it wasn't like I couldn't manage most of it on my own. He continues to smoke.....if he ends up getting sick behind this, it won't be pretty.

Over the years my denial of my need for Si really shines bright. I can't deny.....I need it, and even miss my ex husbands sensing, even though it was Se not Si. I feel like Tom and I have been conducting this relationship as though it were an experiment. Stupid. I have no idea of where it's going to go and whether we will really be able to deal with kids gone and getting older.

[Kim]

Blaze!

I don't have any words of wisdom, but good to read you and I am glad that you are ok after the scare!

[nigh]

The worst relationships in my life have always been with my mirage/illusionary (EIE). What happens every time:

1. We like each other instantly
2. We become kind of 'best friends' very quickly
3. All of the sudden the EIE starts to get all mad at me over and over and I got no idea why
4. As it turns out, it's always because of what I didn't do, instead of what I did (I think I always clash with this kind of bit with other Fe-egos, too)
5. EIE gets sick of my seemingly cold, numb attitude and my lack of emotional expression which have been there from the start and I am baffled about why this becomes a problem now
6. I get put off by him/her displaying unnecessary emotional performance to make me tick as things get worse
6. EIE kicks me out of his/her friend zone

Now I think about it, my disregard on Fe may be one of the biggest problems for them. And all that happened when I was younger, so I think I can deal with the difference better if I meet another EIE now.

But then, maybe I've only met unhealthy EIEs. Or maybe I was the unhealthy one. I could've behaved more 'appropriately' or something. Cos before everything went to hell, things were really good between us. IDK.

[Beautiful sky]

The worst relationships in my life have always been with my mirage/illusionary (EIE). What happens every time:

1. We like each other instantly
2. We become kind of 'best friends' very quickly
3. All of the sudden the EIE starts to get all mad at me over and over and I got no idea why
4. As it turns out, it's always because of what I didn't do, instead of what I did (I think I always clash with this kind of bit with other Fe-egos, too)
5. EIE gets sick of my seemingly cold, numb attitude and my lack of emotional expression which have been there from the start and I am baffled about why this becomes a problem now
6. I get put off by him/her displaying unnecessary emotional performance to make me tick as things get worse
6. EIE kicks me out of his/her friend zone

Now I think about it, my disregard on Fe may be one of the biggest problems for them. And all that happened when I was younger, so I think I can deal with the difference better if I meet another EIE now.

But then, maybe I've only met unhealthy EIEs. Or maybe I was the unhealthy one. I could've behaved more 'appropriately' or something. Cos before everything went to hell, things were really good between us. IDK.

yeah, they can be very superficial after a while.

[nigh]

yeah, they can be very superficial after a while.

I don't think they're superficial per se. I mean, I'm pretty superficial about many things. They can't possibly be more superficial than I am.

And I've thought about this Fi vs. Fe clash more, the interesting thing is I get along with ESEs just fine, who are also Fe-dom. Maybe it's a Beta thing or whatever.

[Blaze]

Totally can see this. If you think about it EIE has to be center stage, they need a response from those around them, it's the nature of their leading Fe. ESI would ignore this.....EIE is completely deflated. ESI would see all that Fe as bullshit. EIE doesnt care about Fi....probably doesnt think its BS but how the heck can you influence huge groups of people by focusing on relationships? Who would have the time needed to accomplish that? With Ni creative EIE assesses their goals and dispenses with Fi.

Some illusionary relations work better than others. Looking back in the thread people thought they are better relations for irrationals, where the logic-ethic axis is complementary.

The worst relationships in my life have always been with my mirage/illusionary (EIE). What happens every time:

1. We like each other instantly
2. We become kind of 'best friends' very quickly
3. All of the sudden the EIE starts to get all mad at me over and over and I got no idea why
4. As it turns out, it's always because of what I didn't do, instead of what I did (I think I always clash with this kind of bit with other Fe-egos, too)
5. EIE gets sick of my seemingly cold, numb attitude and my lack of emotional expression which have been there from the start and I am baffled about why this becomes a problem now
6. I get put off by him/her displaying unnecessary emotional performance to make me tick as things get worse
6. EIE kicks me out of his/her friend zone

Now I think about it, my disregard on Fe may be one of the biggest problems for them. And all that happened when I was younger, so I think I can deal with the difference better if I meet another EIE now.

But then, maybe I've only met unhealthy EIEs. Or maybe I was the unhealthy one. I could've behaved more 'appropriately' or something. Cos before everything went to hell, things were really good between us. IDK.

[shakealittle]

The worst relationships in my life have always been with my mirage/illusionary (EIE). What happens every time:

1. We like each other instantly
2. We become kind of 'best friends' very quickly
3. All of the sudden the EIE starts to get all mad at me over and over and I got no idea why
4. As it turns out, it's always because of what I didn't do, instead of what I did (I think I always clash with this kind of bit with other Fe-egos, too)
5. EIE gets sick of my seemingly cold, numb attitude and my lack of emotional expression which have been there from the start and I am baffled about why this becomes a problem now
6. I get put off by him/her displaying unnecessary emotional performance to make me tick as things get worse
6. EIE kicks me out of his/her friend zone

Now I think about it, my disregard on Fe may be one of the biggest problems for them. And all that happened when I was younger, so I think I can deal with the difference better if I meet another EIE now.

But then, maybe I've only met unhealthy EIEs. Or maybe I was the unhealthy one. I could've behaved more 'appropriately' or something. Cos before everything went to hell, things were really good between us. IDK.

I wouldn't take it so personally

Even being a dual to EIE - the relationship is always up and down
How they treat you depends on so many circumstances

Sometimes I see them treating people they're indifferent to / lower than them/ better than people they're closet to

I would say they are the people who I've felt most hurt by (ie excluding me intentionally after they see me being friendly with someone else)

[nigh]

(ie excluding me intentionally after they see me being friendly with someone else)

I experienced this a few times. I don't understand this bit. Aren't they extroverts? They've got 10 times more friends than me. I don't get upset when they are being especially friendly with others. And they are almost always being friendly with someone. And they're usually popular. Why would they feel upset or disturbed by wee me talking to someone friendly once a month. Haha

I'm so blind about how Fe sees friendship. Gotta look up on it.

[Inguz]

This thread covers the mirage relation quite well. Interesting to read it through over the period of years that it's covered - started in 2007, 6 years old.

Infpman and I are still together, going on 7 years in December of this year.

We have learned to adapt to each other. My current worry is two fold: my ESE daughter is close to 16, the ILE is 11. It won't be long before they're gone. They bring alpha energy to the household. What will it be like for Tom and I when they're gone?

Second: I'm worried about retirement/old age, where paying attention to health concerns and being able to stick up for each other in the medical system could become more important. Neither one of us is good at it, yet we both need it. I've raised this concern, and we've had a trial run when I was dealing with a cancer scare last year. It went OK but it wasn't like I couldn't manage most of it on my own. He continues to smoke.....if he ends up getting sick behind this, it won't be pretty.

Over the years my denial of my need for Si really shines bright. I can't deny.....I need it, and even miss my ex husbands sensing, even though it was Se not Si. I feel like Tom and I have been conducting this relationship as though it were an experiment. Stupid. I have no idea of where it's going to go and whether we will really be able to deal with kids gone and getting older.

Do you talk with him about these worries of yours?

[Blaze]

Do you talk with him about these worries of yours?

Yes I do. We do not come to many agreements about these issues. This year my plan is to reach out for others a bit more, find more things to do socially. We don't overlap well in these areas, but perhaps I can get some of my needs met in other ways. I'm turning 50 this year, natural time of life to stare at old age and try to anticipate what will inevitably come.