I was wondering. Are INTJs good at maths? Can it be related to type?
As for me, I like aritmetics. Geometry, I can't stand it, never liked it, probably because I'm not good at it.
INTjs: Are you good at maths?
I was wondering. Are INTJs good at maths? Can it be related to type?
As for me, I like aritmetics. Geometry, I can't stand it, never liked it, probably because I'm not good at it.
I was once labled a visual mathmatician at one point in my highschool carreer
I hated math for the longest time, because........ I didn't really think I would use it (weird, yeah?). But whatever. now that I am older and wiser, I am beginning to see more and more mathmatical interpretations of data and patters, and truly see and respect math nowadays. I see myself as enjoying it much more nowadays.
However, math class was ALWAYS fun
On tests and such, I did worst in math catagories, generally.......
hm, yes. i don't know whether that's type related, but i was good at math all the way until university. in my third year or so i finally found math that was starting to be difficult. stopped feeling so damn sure then.in school i'd finish my modern maths paper half an hour early and spend the rest of the time scribbling poetry at the back of the question sheets.
The answer really depends on what sort of math you're talking about.
If you're talking about a level of math before and including calculus (high school algebra, high school geometry, precalculus, etc) then any type can be "good" at it (recieve good grades).
If you're talking about math beyond this level, then it certainly is type related. The domain of higher mathematics belongs exclusively to NTs.
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
Re: INTjs: Are you good at maths?
i used to be good at some of it, but i stink now. but i think it's mostly because i have a touch of Discalcula - like dixlexia, but with numbers. switch a number around without knowing it - and magically the answer is wrong every time. i guess stuff wrong using a calculator...Originally Posted by gugu_ baba
Math is beautiful. It explains the universe. I loved Calculus and I still use algebra and trig on a regular basis in the work place.
Obstacles cannot crush me; every obstacle yields to Stern Resolve.
-iNtJ
Math explains nothing, except how to do math.
One is not truly retarded until one's fingers have two-finger-typed a piece of nonsese such as that.
art and visual discoveries came out long, long, long, before math did. they used math to describe art to those that couldn't grasp it.
LOL, exactly... it is pointless to try and understand the universe with "math". Math is only useful if you have a job which requires you to send a rocket into outter space, or teach 7 year olds enough common sense that they don't jump off a cliff, believing that they can fly.art and visual discoveries came out long, long, long, before math did. they used math to describe art to those that couldn't grasp it.
And the socially insecure introvert gets himself ignored.
Math certainly has more than just these two uses.LOL, exactly... it is pointless to try and understand the universe with "math". Math is only useful if you have a job which requires you to send a rocket into outter space, or teach 7 year olds enough common sense that they don't jump off a cliff, believing that they can fly.art and visual discoveries came out long, long, long, before math did. they used math to describe art to those that couldn't grasp it.
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
of course it does. with math, you can figure out how many apples and oranges there are.Math certainly has more than just these two uses.LOL, exactly... it is pointless to try and understand the universe with "math". Math is only useful if you have a job which requires you to send a rocket into outter space, or teach 7 year olds enough common sense that they don't jump off a cliff, believing that they can fly.art and visual discoveries came out long, long, long, before math did. they used math to describe art to those that couldn't grasp it.
or, how long it takes if train A is leaving a city, to pass train b leaving in the opposite direction.
but overall, you need to have a theory in order to work out the numbers. some of the biggest discoveries came from other things besides math. but many of those people couldn't explain it the regular folk - unless there was math to go with it.
but what i hate about math is - people think it's very accurate. they come up with one formula - prove it, and that becomes a law. but no one seems to re-annalyze the results to see if more than one formula fits an equation. like there can only be one answer. with math they create laws that don't need to be.
from my understanding, einstein stunk at math. he visualized anything that can be done. but the real unfortunate thing is, it takes hundreds of years before someone re-examines what we consider stern law and logic. mostly math just doesn't make sense. unless you had examples to go with it, math is just a set of numbers.
i disagree. i view mathematics as a way to interpret the world in another 'language', which then enables us to re-interpret it to obtain results or solve problems, before re-applying the solutions back to the real world - we may not necessarily be able to do them without mathematics.
much like the way we are communicating now. in order to send a signal, the analogue is converted to a different 'language', processed, and then re-interpreted to a desired output. in this case, the aim is to achieve communication at great distance with great speed.
but that's higher math. i also think that even basic mathematics offers something other than just the ability to perform calculations. mathematics training teaches you to think systematically and logically, and to do so confidently. or maybe that's just me cross-applying things as usual. i don't know how many people apply math training in this way.
Einstein was not a mathematician... this not mean that he was terrible at math... he went to college in Switzerland, and did very well, A's, B's, and a few C+'s, in most subjects, especially mathematics. Not all math involves numbers. Algebra is the study of numbers, taught at the beginning undergraduate level, which extends to abstract algebra at a more advanced level; and the study of functions, called calculus at the Freshman level becomes mathematical analysis and functional analysis at a more advanced level.from my understanding, einstein stunk at math. he visualized anything that can be done. but the real unfortunate thing is, it takes hundreds of years before someone re-examines what we consider stern law and logic. mostly math just doesn't make sense. unless you had examples to go with it, math is just a set of numbers.
LOL, exactly... it is pointless to try and understand the universe with "math". Math is only useful if you have a job which requires you to send a rocket into outter space, or teach 7 year olds enough common sense that they don't jump off a cliff, believing that they can fly.art and visual discoveries came out long, long, long, before math did. they used math to describe art to those that couldn't grasp it.
Well.
You're not serious.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
FDG, leave Rocky alone, he's a pragmatic :wink:
It's not about rocky, it's about bullshit.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
it all depends on how you think. if your an artist you do not need to know anything about the rule of thirds, golden rule, or any other math term. you do what you know is right. what looks right.
you don't need math to envison the universe. you don't need math to figure out how light or time travel works.
you do need math to describe it to other's who can't see squat. that's what the math is there for. if you think in pictures you don't need language. if you express in pictures you can comunicate to anyone. however not everyone can do this. so in order to convice the masses, for those who can't see the box at all. you need math.
as in the matrix - i see the world in pictures. what the computer see's is a bunch of numbers representing the world. that's math.
that doesn't make sense. civilizations were around long before modern or any math was really decided on. heck people couldn't read or even speak any language and could still live in some way.
time travel is best thought in multiple dimensions. without math, common folk can't understand quantitative information. if you can see it, you can make sense of it, and the numbers are just another way of seeing things.
it all depends on how you time travel, some may be less painful than others. sometimes understanding too much, will lead you to overlook smaller more obvious things. things that math misses, because it needs to be discovered first - so you can apply numbers.
Who said anything about modern math? Do you think the pyramids were built without math? Sure people have lived without math, but like I said they've lived in caves (or something equivalent).
This is exactly what I was saying before. Math is the language og science. Math is useful for describing many natural phenomena, but the experiments etc. are science.
What point are you trying to make here anyway? Are you trying to justify your lacking knowledge og math by saying 'it's not so useful anyway'? In short; what's your issue with math?
You obviously have little knowledge of math... and the only issue you really have with math is that you do not understand it. I think what you really mean behind “multiple dimensions” is multiple universes.time travel is best thought in multiple dimensions. without math, common folk can't understand quantitative information. if you can see it, you can make sense of it, and the numbers are just another way of seeing things.
[quote]you do have to wonder about the pyramids. their unit of measurement changed depending who was in charge. how can you have accurate math if the numbers keep changing?
caves? no. back in the day when people relied on the church for information. for stained glass windows to tell them the stories they need to know. many could not read. do you think they could use math as well? did they not live?
1. i like to argue.This is exactly what I was saying before. Math is the language og science. Math is useful for describing many natural phenomena, but the experiments etc. are science.
What point are you trying to make here anyway? Are you trying to justify your lacking knowledge og math by saying 'it's not so useful anyway'? In short; what's your issue with math?
2. i don't like math much
3. there is more views than to simply things by applying equations to it. it's like redescribing a flower via a complex formula of numbers.
no, i don't. you don't need multiple universes. you yourself own your own singular dimension. what i do in my own dimension, will have no bearing on the universe.
"you do have to wonder about the pyramids. their unit of measurement changed depending who was in charge. how can you have accurate math if the numbers keep changing?
caves? no. back in the day when people relied on the church for information. for stained glass windows to tell them the stories they need to know. many could not read. do you think they could use math as well? did they not live?"
that's the thing about math. it doesn't matter if the units change. the relations remain, therefore it is still math. don't you know this? does it matter if things are in feet or metres? trigonometry still works either way. and you can't site buildings, build perfect squares, calculate loads etc. without math. even the idea of zero is math, and not always thought of - and enabled more advanced math than previously. just because people can't read, doesn't mean they can't use math. grandmothers of my people couldn't read, but are incredible with currency, basic math, fractions, and inheritance calculations. churches were built with math, geometry to achieve orientation, for example. all those right angles are math. logistics and estimating how much supplies for people to set aside, needs also math. even when people didn't use 'numbers', they used math. devising calendars, navigation - again, needs math. sailors may be illiterate, but they understood geometry.
you are thinking of math in the sense of the subject we learn in school. these things are applied everywhere, but they are invisible to those who don't understand it, who don't see that they themselves use it inconsciously. for example, everyone is able to make choices based on some basic knowledge of probability. mathematics takes probability into a theory form so that it can be used to predict phenomena that, with our instinctive knowledge of probability alone, we couldn't predict.
really, i can't believe i am actually forced to defend mathematics. pretty soon, somebody will force me to defend history.
Amen, Kirana.
Obviously it would be inefficient to describe a flower to someone using formulaic expressions. As human beings we can conceive and visualize in more abstract ways which allow us to bypass the drudgery of giving every single detail to 0.0000001 precision.
And yet, if you wanted to, you could. Math does certainly define and explain the universe. Just because we don't understand enough to come up with all the correct formulas, doesn't mean it won't or can't happen. It also doesn't mean that the artistic way of describing the universe isn't a more practical way of going about the task.
For me, s * t = d is a vital bit of knowledge. It's simple and yet is the foundation for hitting a moving target. My company does that with great precision and repeatability, which allows us to be at the top of our market. Regardless of whether you realize it or not, that same equation describes most of your day.
Math is beautiful. Math describes the universe. Of course, Chemistry, which relies heavily on math, more fully explains the universe. Using Math and Chemistry together, you can begin to understand Physics.
Obstacles cannot crush me; every obstacle yields to Stern Resolve.
-iNtJ
For so long I avoided math intentionally...
Now I find myself drawing on it more and more and more.
It is a beautiful thing
So non-math people make me angry
So this thread is starting to annoy me.... No one here seems to really know what math is. Math is an art form! Just like any other! It's an art form which heavily utilizes logic, but is not entire dependent on logic. Many people say math is useless... what about paintings. I look at a painting and I see pictures, and try as I might, I'm not moved by it, nor does it explain anything. But then is it useless? Maybe it's just as useless as math.
Math doesn't have to do with numbers. In fact, I'd say math really began with Euclid's Elements, where he didn't use numbers at all! (previous "math"... was just work with numbers... more science than math). In fact, he didn't deal with anything. He made shit up in his head. Circles? What are those? Do any really exist? no, but they do in the head of a matemitician. That's why I often call math a fantasy world, because in many ways, it is. The best description of math is probably something that follows the axiomatic system of logic.
Yes, many times math is useful, and this is the aspect of math society usually supports, but many times it's not true math, it's just dumbed down math, or boring math. It's not really art, which is proofs and discoveries and problem salving. It's useful in the way painting would be useful in drawing a map. Do the tools of art make this useful? Could you paint a map if you couldn't pain? yes to the first, no to the second.
As far as math describing the universe... have you ever heard of physics? especially quantim physics? These are basically areas of math with heavy flexibility in the axioms chosen. There's a pretty huge difference between physics and the other sciences.
and Math doesn't go unrreexamined because mathemiticians prove things logically, instead of seeing a bunch of evidence and saying "yeah this seems right", which is all you can do in science... (and yeah it has been reexamined before... see "Foundations of Geometry"...
As far as types are concerned... naturally j's do better in school... but people with strong sensing will do better at memorizing formulas and number cruncing.. while people with strong thinking will do better at proofs.. and people with strong intuition will be better at visualizing and understanding main concepts... however, there is more to this... but i'm tired of writing... and you're tired of reading
In conclusion, no one in their right mind would read all that, so if you disagree with me, you're insane!
In summary, this is all written by a sixteen year old boy, which is probably the stupidest age/gender possible. Forget everything you just decided not to read.
Finally, so yeah, math is as useless as poetry or painting......
-Joey
I really hate signatures.
Re: So non-math people make me angry
It seems that you don't know what math is either, in view of this asinine comment.
That last post was mine.
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
Re: So non-math people make me angry
It seems that you don't know what math is either, in view of this asinine comment.
He was spot on. Look at it like this:
[ quote="idiotmanattacks" ] So this thread is starting to annoy me.... No one here seems to really know what math is.
I think, given his context, that's a fair statement.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Re: So non-math people make me angry
Being as useless as something does not imply uselessness.It seems that you don't know what math is either, in view of this asinine comment.
Poetry can be useful for let's say... recording history in a catchy form... or expressing information in a more emotional or soothing way. Painting can be useful fr let's say... Painting a map, of painting a picture of a criminal you need to catch...
All I'm saying is that real math isn't necassary useful, or applicable to anything in the real world.
I really hate signatures.
in which case, the posts in the thread have demonstrated that people do know what math is around 'here'. it has all been covered - that math in a pure, theoretical/fundamental form is abstract and it is difficult to see how it is useful - hence the anti-math posts from some members.
but that math can also actually be useful, and indeed is used for many things even independently of the language of numbers, was also mentioned in posts intended to correct the 'math is totally useless' view. just because 'useful math' proponents list the uses of practical math doesn't mean pure math isn't acknowledged - it just wasn't directly relevant to the point that needed to be made.
Re: So non-math people make me angry
Being as useless as something does not imply uselessness.It seems that you don't know what math is either, in view of this asinine comment.
Poetry can be useful for let's say... recording history in a catchy form... or expressing information in a more emotional or soothing way. Painting can be useful fr let's say... Painting a map, of painting a picture of a criminal you need to catch...
All I'm saying is that real math isn't necassary useful, or applicable to anything in the real world.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Re: So non-math people make me angry
I'm with FDGBeing as useless as something does not imply uselessness.It seems that you don't know what math is either, in view of this asinine comment.
Poetry can be useful for let's say... recording history in a catchy form... or expressing information in a more emotional or soothing way. Painting can be useful fr let's say... Painting a map, of painting a picture of a criminal you need to catch...
All I'm saying is that real math isn't necassary useful, or applicable to anything in the real world.
I want idiotman to pick a number, and then he'll count down to zero... with each punch in the face. that should be a good application of mathmatic.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
and then mathmatics will be used to elaborate upon the transferecne of energy, and how my muscles move, static, kinetic, this, that.... all of it.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Re: So non-math people make me angry
My statement of your comment being asinine still stands. The applications of math to the real world are limitless. As an example, look at group theory. To the uninformed, it comes across as useless and impractical. However, it has important applications in coding theory (such as error correcting codes), and in quantam physics.Being as useless as something does not imply uselessness.It seems that you don't know what math is either, in view of this asinine comment.
Poetry can be useful for let's say... recording history in a catchy form... or expressing information in a more emotional or soothing way. Painting can be useful fr let's say... Painting a map, of painting a picture of a criminal you need to catch...
All I'm saying is that real math isn't necassary useful, or applicable to anything in the real world.
And I'll KNOW you have no idea what you're talking about if you try to pawn off the idea that group theory "isn't real math."
INTj Mathematician -- "What, me worry?"
"As intelligence increases, happiness goes down. See, I made a graph. I make a lot of graphs." -- Lisa Simpson
i like math. i don't have much trouble understanding it once my Ti has a firm grasp and i have built a model of the system in my head. where i fail, usually, and what i am most intimidated of as an intj, is the way math is taught. it's hard as an intj to keep up with teaching that is more often than not geared towards sensates. also, the intj's characteristic shabby work ethic can be a problem. so really, it just becomes a question of how hard is the intj willing to apply his/her self in order to reach that level of higher math where they excel, assuming this is your goal in the first place.
lol
Re: So non-math people make me angry
wtf @ this
lol
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