thistle type

[thistle]

Hello, I've included my typing questionnaire below in case someone feels like reading this and sharing their impressions or ideas of my type. Thanks


Note: I wrote my answers to these questions with a pen in a notebook before transferring those answers directly to the text here. The reason for that is the handwritten version is less refined and may be true to how my thoughts form. When I type on the forum I have a tendency to heavily edit and format my responses before submitting them.


What is beauty?
When I encounter something that is beautiful I have noticed that I will feel a bit short of breath and that my hand will touch my chest over where my heart is. At the same time I have a thought like I am glad to be alive.



What are your most important values?
- To do as I say I will, try to avoid empty talk. I strive to do this as much as possible, but I am not perfect.
- To treat someone as I would like to be treated.
- Sense of personal responsibility. When there's dirty work I don't really want to do, I push through the feeling of unpleasantness and do what's needed so I can mentally move on (have a clear head).
- To waste as little as possible.



Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs?
When I am hesitant in a decision to take and my outside influences and pressures are confusing/conflicting, I sometimes become aware of a guiding voice inside me - I like to believe this is God acting through my conscience.



Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Effort should always be made to negotiate first. I don't think injustice is put right by violence or threats of violence. One side will always have a real or perceived debt to settle as long as the belief is held that a withdrawal from conflict is cowardice or shame on your country.
Power is a willfulness that can affect a large number of people and for this reason it must be used responsibly and only to increase wellbeing.



What have you had long conversations about?
The growing role of automation and its affect on wellbeing, a Universal Basic Income's effect on wellbeing, what to do about the e-waste that will have accumulated within the next 10~ years and to which parts of the world it will go for processing and recycling. Criminality, mental illness, recidivism and how to feel a sense of community, wherever that may be.



Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic?
Preventive measures are what I spend most of my time thinking about but I don't discuss this with others unless they express concerns similar to my own: to keep the organs of the body in good working order and not age them prematurely. I believe in some sort of holistic health - that is, when I care for my body my mind will be at peace too.



What do you think of daily chores?
I look at it from the perspective of me caring for/tending to my home, by keeping it in good order. The same attitude I have toward my body. Healthy home, healthy mind - especially because when I am not working, I am usually at home. I do have OCD, so when objects are clean and in their places I immediately feel relaxed and free to move on to the next thing I need to do.



Books or films you liked?
Usually I read non-fictions books that are sociology/social issues related. On my shelf at the moment I have a book about PTSD, criminal psychology and a brief history of the Vikings. I also like to read biographies of authors before I read their works. I recently started reading the A Song of Ice and Fire series and was pleasantly surprised by the imagery created by the writing style.

For movies, I like romantic and/or adventurous (road trip) ones. I like Tony Gatlif movies, Pedro Almodóvar movies, Fatih Akin movies. I like the movies Phantom Thread, Amour and Badlands. It's relieving to watch emotional teary movies - vicariously experiencing a passionate relationship without the hard work. On the other hand, I can't stand tense thrillers - I couldn't even manage "A talented Mr Ripley", which I had to watch from behind a cushion with my eyes half closed.



What has made me cry?
Watching BBC world news - watching TV news in general. Visiting my dad in hospital. Seeing someone who is losing their memories interact with their family members. Observing pain and suffering.

What has made me smile?
Recalling a memory of someone who has touched my heart and influenced who I am in some way. High-energy emotional music.



Where do I feel at one:
Walking through a vast open landscape. It is wild and there is no excavation or subdividing of land in sight. I also feel at one when I'm decorating the inside of the store I work at. I feel content listening to my favourite music through headphones, in bed with the lights out and my eyes shut.



What have people seen as your weaknesses?
- My sheltered world view. I'm wary to try new things - when pressed I can become stern and frigid, "no fun".
- I don't catch up with friends as frequently as they would like to see me.
- It's scary to "loosen up" in social scenarios or to feel unusual sensations, so I don't use alcohol or drugs.
- Being a perfectionist (need to be in control at all times) makes me a pessimistic person to be around, I believe.

What have people seen as your strengths?
- My resourcefulness.
- I am asked to draw signs for the shop, because my handwriting looks like "a special font"
- I've been told that I have a good eye for decorating and a calming unobtrusive presence.
- My ex partner called me "a big heart". Some people say I am thoughtful and honest.
- I've been told that I am determined to solve a problem for a customer.



In what areas of your life would you like help?
I've always appreciated knowledgeable people who I can bounce questions/ideas/thoughts off without feeling like a nuisance for doing so. Essentially, I would like guidance with common knowledge, so I can integrate into social situations better.

Ever feel stuck in a rut?
Yes, I wrote a blog entry about feeling this way.
It happens when I realise that there is something I must change in my life but I worry that the risks actually outweigh the benefits and I don't trust that I have calculated this accurately on my own - that I have gathered enough knowledge to make a well considered plan. I'm afraid of the change landing me in a worse position than I am now.



Qualities I like in other people:
Optimism, patience, steadiness, artistic flair.
I like people who have an "organised" mind.

Qualities I don't like in other people:
Underhandedness and one-upmanship.
I limit contact with a person who undermines others insidiously: whether that's through sarcasm or cruel jokes, or something else.



If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns?
My main concern would be that my child feels nurtured and bonded to me. I hope that that they will feel safe and that they will never feel alone in the world.



A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
Inwardly I would have a nervous reaction, my stomach would tense and I would feel a lump in my throat. I'd start worrying that we would need to avoid raising this subject in the future, because I don't want to lie to my friend to appease them, and if I openly disagree they might feel rejected or betrayed.

Outwardly I'd air some doubts and ask more questions about how they arrived at their point of view. I want to try and understand why they believe in this and hopefully there is something I can relate to my own life so I can internally reconcile our differences.

Subconsciously I would probably arrange my time so I see that person less often - I'd avoid them because remembering the conversation we had would cause me to feel anxiety. To summarise, the opinion of my friend would taint my view of them in some way but I would never address this in their presence, I would probably close parts of myself off to them.



Describe your relationship to society.
On some days I feel like a very normal inconspicuous person. The main thing I have noticed is that I feel more accepted by Gen X or even boomers than millenials/people my own age. Gen Z make me feel very...stale and boring, haha. They seem very cool and progressive to me.



How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
I prefer people who are somewhat predictable in their movements (who have a routine) and are decided in their tastes and their views. I think this has some relation to me getting along with older people, by the way. I choose friends who lead healthy lifestyles and don't do anything to excess...just very moderate people because they feel safe. I can't objectively describe how I behave around my friends.



How do you behave around strangers?
I speak more formally than I do when in the company of my friends. I try to talk only about what is present in the current environment rather than my personal views or likes/dislikes. If the stranger starts to tell me about their day I'll chip in with my own comments or questions, but I don't want to give much away about myself. It's actually preferable when someone mostly talks about themselves.

[roger557]

www.sociotype.com/tests

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

I'm afraid of the change landing me in a worse position than I am now.

Ti-Fe valuing.
*if intuitive. Fi Te ppl force things their way. this means if a change would make u in a bad position they would still take it bc they have to accocmodate Fi. then push through with Te. ESI would struggle more due to Ne PoLR.

I am asked to draw signs for the shop, because my handwriting looks like "a special font"

i know SEIs like this.
*now ducki mentioned ESI and this reminded me of them too.

Optimism, patience, steadiness, artistic flair.
I like people who have an "organised" mind.

not sure if Ti, Te or Si.*

Subconsciously I would probably arrange my time so I see that person less often - I'd avoid them because remembering the conversation we had would cause me to feel anxiety. To summarise, the opinion of my friend would taint my view of them in some way but I would never address this in their presence, I would probably close parts of myself off to them

Fi and Ni. not sure if this is unvalued 4D Fi.

Alpha quadra first guess
delta second
SEI seems most likely to me.

u dont seem to indulge in Se like an ESI would. liking optimism is also SEI. ESIs appreciate more pessimistic people who push forward still.

[aixelsyd]

ExI

[MissDucki]

Either ESI or SEI IMO

[inaLim]

What are your most important values?
...
...
- Sense of personal responsibility. When there's dirty work I don't really want to do, I push through the feeling of unpleasantness and do what's needed so I can mentally move on (have a clear head).
....

This is LSE stock advice for every problem ever

Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Effort should always be made to negotiate first. I don't think injustice is put right by violence or threats of violence. One side will always have a real or perceived debt to settle as long as the belief is held that a withdrawal from conflict is cowardice or shame on your country.
Power is a willfulness that can affect a large number of people and for this reason it must be used responsibly and only to increase wellbeing.

Pure ethics interpretation (as opposed to system, or dictionary definition). 1D Se .

In what areas of your life would you like help?
I've always appreciated knowledgeable people who I can bounce questions/ideas/thoughts off without feeling like a nuisance for doing so. Essentially, I would like guidance with common knowledge, so I can integrate into social situations better.

Out of the T types, this best describes LSE. The others are much more likely to get testy/bored/avoid.

Qualities I like in other people:
Optimism, patience, steadiness, artistic flair.
I like people who have an "organised" mind.

Caregiver, Rational and/or Te valuing

How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
I prefer people who are somewhat predictable in their movements (who have a routine) and are decided in their tastes and their views. I think this has some relation to me getting along with older people, by the way. I choose friends who lead healthy lifestyles and don't do anything to excess...just very moderate people because they feel safe. I can't objectively describe how I behave around my friends.

Rational, Fi, Si valuing

What have people seen as your weaknesses?
- My sheltered world view. I'm wary to try new things - when pressed I can become stern and frigid, "no fun".
- I don't catch up with friends as frequently as they would like to see me.
- It's scary to "loosen up" in social scenarios or to feel unusual sensations, so I don't use alcohol or drugs.
- Being a perfectionist (need to be in control at all times) makes me a pessimistic person to be around, I believe.

This could apply to a number of types, but it fits EII well.

Summed up: Feeler, humanitarian club, drawn to Te/Si, old soul Delta values; more sensitive, rational, "put together," & less Ne than IEE. Your Si comes off as too naive/magical/safeguarded to be SEI or ESI. Fi seems to be more your natural comfort zone.

EII

FWIW If you relate to Mary Wollstonecraft from your comment in the cognitive styles thread, she was ExI IMO

[thistle]

Ti-Fe valuing.
*if intuitive. Fi Te ppl force things their way. this means if a change would make u in a bad position they would still take it bc they have to accocmodate Fi. then push through with Te. ESI would struggle more due to Ne PoLR.

Alpha quadra first guess
delta second
SEI seems most likely to me.

u dont seem to indulge in Se like an ESI would. liking optimism is also SEI. ESIs appreciate more pessimistic people who push forward still.

Thank you for your read on me I would not say that I force change more than I silently resist change that I am not confident will work. In that way I'm a bit of a stick in the mud type of personality (and I keep on coming back to me being an IJ type).

It might help if I include a quick example from my job where I "forced" change:

When I began working there I noticed the staff would use email templates to customers which began with "Hi there" and I decided to start addressing customers by their name instead (would locate it in their email to me or in their customer record). After doing this for a while I noticed my colleagues started doing it as well. You could say that I resisted using the company templates and also changed the way of doing emails - so that would be a show of initiative, Se.

I don't feel comfortable applying pressure on other people, but if I am sure my colleague will have a better rapport with a client I will delegate the job to my colleague - if that option is available to me. I'll usually mention my reason for delegating, when I make the request.

My comfort zone issue could be more Si-related than Ne-related.

[thistle]

The type suggestions I have received so far have varied placement of Ne - creative, suggestive and PolR - and I wonder if the placement depends on how much it is used and valued by the person reading the questionnaire.

Here are some recent examples from my life which to me indicate suggestive Ne:

-A bookshelf at the shop was missing two of its little pegs which hold up a shelf and there were no spare pegs on hand, but a lot of small screws around. I put the pointed end of the screw into the surface of a flat 0.5cm rubber band and wedged the now-grippy screw into the cavity in the shelf, where the peg usually goes. I repeated this to make a second DIY peg and had a working shelf again. I felt really chuffed with myself for coming up with the fix, because I'm not usually that good at thinking on my feet.

-Months ago I bought an old wooden chair and more recently found a small table with a white formica top. It suddenly occurred to me that if the chair was the right height for the table, I could have a nice writing desk (lightbulb moment for me = Ne?). The wood of the chair was stained chestnut by a previous owner and it clashes with the table, so the plan become fruitless... until my friend mentioned that she had a mouse sander which I could borrow.

She said I could sand off the existing stain and then apply whitewash, to approximate the table top. She also mentioned that the local paint shop had a 25% off sale this week and I just needed regular whitewash paint from that store, rather than a fancy type from a boutique. I think this is a good example of possibilities (therefore optimism) being brought to my mind by my friend's Ne

[thistle]

This is LSE stock advice for every problem ever



Pure ethics interpretation (as opposed to system, or dictionary definition). 1D Se .



Out of the T types, this best describes LSE. The others are much more likely to get testy/bored/avoid.



Caregiver, Rational and/or Te valuing



Rational, Fi, Si valuing




This could apply to a number of types, but it fits EII well.

Summed up: Feeler, humanitarian club, drawn to Te/Si, old soul Delta values; more sensitive, rational, "put together," & less Ne than IEE. Your Si comes off as too naive/magical/safeguarded to be SEI or ESI. Fi seems to be more your natural comfort zone.

EII

FWIW If you relate to Mary Wollstonecraft from your comment in the cognitive styles thread, she was ExI IMO

Thanks for taking the time to write this out and for sharing your thought process.

While I understand how you arrived at EII (perhaps by considering the different clubs and whether I fit and then ruling out functions not-valued and the less likely types), I noticed you did not quote a part of my questionnaire which suggests strong valued Ne.

It's pedantic of me, but I'm mentioning it because I don't score high in Ne when I take tests and would like to have an idea of how much less Ne I have (than an IEE), to put this in perspective. I have added two more examples to this thread, which hopefully give a clearer idea of my relation to Ne than the questionnaire did

Based on descriptions I agree that LSE like to be a "go-to" person for advice and directions, and maybe LIE wouldn't mind.

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

@thistle

I silently resist change that I am not confident will work. In that way I'm a bit of a stick in the mud type of personality

thats more gamma. Betas tend to be way more confrontational in that regard. SEI would also go somewhere else or keep doing it like others more likely for the sake of harmony.
good eye for decorating could be Se. u said u like artistic flair too which is only a bit unusual for SEI to pay attention to.
"stop whining be optimistic" could be Se too that would be mitigated by Fi.

- To do as I say I will, try to avoid empty talk. I strive to do this as much as possible, but I am not perfect.

SEIs don't seem to struggle with/think about "saying" and "doing". I have seen this push with high Se users especially. SEIs push but its not something they "strive" as much as just "do" it.
OCD about objects in place doesn't seem very Se. it's a rather extreme thing so I associate it with valued Si.

- Being a perfectionist (need to be in control at all times) makes me a pessimistic person to be around, I believe.

this would rather be ExI instead of SEI.
so far enough to convince me u would value Fi instead of Fe.

Underhandedness and one-upmanship.

disliking that is more gamma values. i think gammas hate underhandedness the most (bc it's Se tied to Fi) very hypocritical if u ask me.
ur Ne suggestive examples could be Se. in da book it says Se collects objects and makes a functional relationships between them. I see both SEI and ESI being capable of doing what u did.
ESI-Fi
not sure how biased i am by ur telling me u keep coming back to IJ.

[roger557]

Post picture

[marooned]

i think it sounds EII-Fi.

What is beauty?
When I encounter something that is beautiful I have noticed that I will feel a bit short of breath and that my hand will touch my chest over where my heart is. At the same time I have a thought like I am glad to be alive.

seems very 4d Fi

- To do as I say I will, try to avoid empty talk. I strive to do this as much as possible, but I am not perfect.
- To treat someone as I would like to be treated.
- Sense of personal responsibility. When there's dirty work I don't really want to do, I push through the feeling of unpleasantness and do what's needed so I can mentally move on (have a clear head).
- To waste as little as possible.

seems delta... Te can help limit waste (it's a resource manager among other things imo), EII especially have a strong sense of personal responsibility ime, and the golden rule is very Fi. 4D Fi anyway.

Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs?
When I am hesitant in a decision to take and my outside influences and pressures are confusing/conflicting, I sometimes become aware of a guiding voice inside me - I like to believe this is God acting through my conscience.

vibes again Fi, and maybe Ni demonstrative (4D Ni). although it's human ofc.

Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Effort should always be made to negotiate first. I don't think injustice is put right by violence or threats of violence. One side will always have a real or perceived debt to settle as long as the belief is held that a withdrawal from conflict is cowardice or shame on your country.
Power is a willfulness that can affect a large number of people and for this reason it must be used responsibly and only to increase wellbeing.

it's not really the beliefs/thoughts themselves but it kinda vibes delta again - every LSE superhero would agree lol.

Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic?

Preventive measures are what I spend most of my time thinking about but I don't discuss this with others unless they express concerns similar to my own: to keep the organs of the body in good working order and not age them prematurely. I believe in some sort of holistic health - that is, when I care for my body my mind will be at peace too.
What do you think of daily chores?
I look at it from the perspective of me caring for/tending to my home, by keeping it in good order. The same attitude I have toward my body. Healthy home, healthy mind - especially because when I am not working, I am usually at home. I do have OCD, so when objects are clean and in their places I immediately feel relaxed and free to move on to the next thing I need to do.

this wouldn't be out of line with Si HA and rationality...

On the other hand, I can't stand tense thrillers - I couldn't even manage "A talented Mr Ripley", which I had to watch from behind a cushion with my eyes half closed.

Se PoLR related? /hides/

What has made me smile?
Recalling a memory of someone who has touched my heart and influenced who I am in some way. High-energy emotional music.

Fi probably

Where do I feel at one:
Walking through a vast open landscape. It is wild and there is no excavation or subdividing of land in sight. I also feel at one when I'm decorating the inside of the store I work at. I feel content listening to my favourite music through headphones, in bed with the lights out and my eyes shut.

wouldn't be out of line with Si valuing

What have people seen as your weaknesses?
- My sheltered world view. I'm wary to try new things - when pressed I can become stern and frigid, "no fun".
- I don't catch up with friends as frequently as they would like to see me.
- It's scary to "loosen up" in social scenarios or to feel unusual sensations, so I don't use alcohol or drugs.
- Being a perfectionist (need to be in control at all times) makes me a pessimistic person to be around, I believe.

wary to try new experiences (introverted at least), frigid, perfectionist... all seems very IJ to me... the new experiences thing could be more Se than Ne, could be being wary of EP stuff, could be introversion and 6ish leanings? also weak sensing in fear of unusual sensations?

What have people seen as your strengths?

- My resourcefulness.
- I am asked to draw signs for the shop, because my handwriting looks like "a special font"
- I've been told that I have a good eye for decorating and a calming unobtrusive presence.
- My ex partner called me "a big heart". Some people say I am thoughtful and honest.
- I've been told that I am determined to solve a problem for a customer.

not out of line with Fi, IJ temperament, Si valuing... resourcefulness CAN be Ne (it depends)... some deltas i've noticed use Ne in a very practical way coming up with creative solutions in everyday living, but i think it can be hard to distinguish SLI from the two delta NFs in this sometimes... the SLI is highly resourceful with its creative Te and it values Ne... it will also be crafty/hands-on and is resourceful in those kinds of tasks (however it has a strong grasp of mechanical/technical things often that is often not there in delta NF)... but you seem to have a huge Fi focus, way more than SLI would... and i feel like it's not SEI because you seem IJ and Fi valuing, and there are signs of weak sensing

In what areas of your life would you like help?
I've always appreciated knowledgeable people who I can bounce questions/ideas/thoughts off without feeling like a nuisance for doing so. Essentially, I would like guidance with common knowledge, so I can integrate into social situations better.

LSE can help with this. LIE probably too. but like "common knowledge" sounds like it's down-to-earth and that is more LSE's area. although i don't want to discount the LSE-C in DCNH! i haven't seen this unicorn (it's not really a unicorn i am just blind and there might be one at work i mistook for XLE) but it will be the avant-garde LSE if there is one.

Ever feel stuck in a rut?

Yes, I wrote a blog entry about feeling this way.
It happens when I realise that there is something I must change in my life but I worry that the risks actually outweigh the benefits and I don't trust that I have calculated this accurately on my own - that I have gathered enough knowledge to make a well considered plan. I'm afraid of the change landing me in a worse position than I am now.

seems Te DS ish and 6w5ish in enneagram

A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
Inwardly I would have a nervous reaction, my stomach would tense and I would feel a lump in my throat. I'd start worrying that we would need to avoid raising this subject in the future, because I don't want to lie to my friend to appease them, and if I openly disagree they might feel rejected or betrayed.

Outwardly I'd air some doubts and ask more questions about how they arrived at their point of view. I want to try and understand why they believe in this and hopefully there is something I can relate to my own life so I can internally reconcile our differences.

Subconsciously I would probably arrange my time so I see that person less often - I'd avoid them because remembering the conversation we had would cause me to feel anxiety. To summarise, the opinion of my friend would taint my view of them in some way but I would never address this in their presence, I would probably close parts of myself off to them.

this isn't out of line with EII... the fearfulness seems kinds 6w5 again... there's concern about the future of relations and so distance and closing off is chosen (Fi realm, one could make weak argument for intuition - Ni)... seems like there isn't Se either... like maybe the Se PoLR is making the situation more fearful?

How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
I prefer people who are somewhat predictable in their movements (who have a routine) and are decided in their tastes and their views. I think this has some relation to me getting along with older people, by the way. I choose friends who lead healthy lifestyles and don't do anything to excess...just very moderate people because they feel safe. I can't objectively describe how I behave around my friends.

seems Si valuing and rational... delta is also referred to as the most mature quadra fwiw

How do you behave around strangers?
I speak more formally than I do when in the company of my friends. I try to talk only about what is present in the current environment rather than my personal views or likes/dislikes. If the stranger starts to tell me about their day I'll chip in with my own comments or questions, but I don't want to give much away about myself. It's actually preferable when someone mostly talks about themselves.

this is what my EII sister does as well... the like/dislike area can quickly offend or start drawing lines of friends and foes, so it's kinda deeply personal...

It might help if I include a quick example from my job where I "forced" change:

When I began working there I noticed the staff would use email templates to customers which began with "Hi there" and I decided to start addressing customers by their name instead (would locate it in their email to me or in their customer record). After doing this for a while I noticed my colleagues started doing it as well. You could say that I resisted using the company templates and also changed the way of doing emails - so that would be a show of initiative, Se.

I don't feel comfortable applying pressure on other people, but if I am sure my colleague will have a better rapport with a client I will delegate the job to my colleague - if that option is available to me. I'll usually mention my reason for delegating, when I make the request.

this indirect path isn't Se imo... Se types don't feel uncomfortable applying pressure on others IME. none of the ESIs i know do. the ESIs don't typically apply a lot of pressure ime, but they often "pick their battles" and they don't have an issue applying pressure in the battles they did pick. but in general there's an indirect vibe that feels 1d Se not 3d Se (which is SEI) to me. and some 9ish-ness (it's elsewhere too)

about Ne creative... i really think it depends on the EII... some EII are incredibly Ne-ish, and others are more self-contained with it (and the EII has stronger Ni than it does Ne)... and like finding creative DIY ideas although not solely in the realm of Ne, is imo, in that realm... delta is the most DIY quadra imo and the pairing of Si/Ne/Te makes for creative and resourceful practical living solutions. EII would bring more ideas i would think and do small projects; LSE would bring the drive to manage/run a larger such project. and also, wild-crazy-out-there Ne about the quantum flux capacitor or smt is usually alpha imo not delta.

i think what distinguishes EII is it often will be a sort of idealist concerned with the broader ethics in society, even if only in a slight or subtle way (self-contained)... like if i thought of clubs even, the whole OP feels NF club to me... but honestly i feel like SEI can be pretty idealistic too... so not sure how strong of a distinction this is...

PS: wasn't trying to ennea-type you, but the two theories are wound together in my head... and i often will see something as it could be more about about enneagram than socionics, etc.

PSS: something that i wasn't sure about was liking people "with an organized mind" as i am not sure i see Te lead that way (it's not that they have a disorganized mind but i guess i see them as often having a sort of "managerial" logical mind...); like if organized means a mind like a crystal lattice or something that seems more Ti-ish (static not the Te moving logic); but it could just mean clear-headed... also adding to enneatype things, the "artistic flair" could be 4ish.

[thistle]

@thistle

thats more gamma. Betas tend to be way more confrontational in that regard. SEI would also go somewhere else or keep doing it like others more likely for the sake of harmony.
good eye for decorating could be Se. u said u like artistic flair too which is only a bit unusual for SEI to pay attention to.
"stop whining be optimistic" could be Se too that would be mitigated by Fi.

SEIs don't seem to struggle with/think about "saying" and "doing". I have seen this push with high Se users especially. SEIs push but its not something they "strive" as much as just "do" it.
OCD about objects in place doesn't seem very Se. it's a rather extreme thing so I associate it with valued Si.

this would rather be ExI instead of SEI.
so far enough to convince me u would value Fi instead of Fe.

disliking that is more gamma values. i think gammas hate underhandedness the most (bc it's Se tied to Fi) very hypocritical if u ask me.
ur Ne suggestive examples could be Se. in da book it says Se collects objects and makes a functional relationships between them. I see both SEI and ESI being capable of doing what u did.
ESI-Fi
not sure how biased i am by ur telling me u keep coming back to IJ.

You might have been influenced by me saying I relate most to IJ temperament.

In your experience is IJ temperament more likely to be robotic in their mannerisms than the other temperaments?

That's a good point about my Ne examples relating to Se, instead: because they involve objects and ways in which I can assemble them.

[thistle]

Post picture

I agree that a photo might reveal something about my temperament but is it any better than a questionnaire at showing my thought process?

It is also something I would not post on the forum, for privacy reasons, because I want to know who is able to see it.

[myresearch]

@thistle Do you start any conflict or disagreement with anyone? If so can you give an example? If so are these people close to you or not or both?

If you got angry or aggresive can you give examples?

Your overall answers indicate 4D Fi btw, I can explain how I reach to that conclusion if you like.

[roger557]

I agree that a photo might reveal something about my temperament but is it any better than a questionnaire at showing my thought process?

VI

It is also something I would not post on the forum, for privacy reasons, because I want to know who is able to see it.

Send PM if you want and I'll VI you.

[thistle]

@inumbra I thought you raised some good points, especially about enneagram 6w5 behaviours - I'd never made the connection and can't really look past it now. 5 has the self-contained traits.

What you highlighted as possible Si Hidden-Agenda: I think I am quite good at nesting without assistance/help. My work desk has items from home around it and I've sort of carved out my own corner there by making it comfortable for myself. In my own home I can feel when the room is too humid and know it would be beneficial to put up paler curtains to let more light through.

About The Talented Mr. Ripley in particular, it made me really anxious because I kept on thinking "he's about to get caught!...and then... no...and then!"
I get a more negative viewing experience, than an positive adrenaline one.

Unusual sensations - the few times when I tried drinking to be social with friends or colleagues I could feel my face growing hot and a hum or buzz around me, and realised that I was not really joined to the group at all and that I had less control over what I was doing and saying. My first instinct was to keep on pouring myself glasses of water until the unreal feeling went away, and my body returned to normal.

This really resonated with me -

the like/dislike area can quickly offend or start drawing lines of friends and foes, so it's kinda deeply personal...

I often make this choice of staying silent about particular views if I worry that raising the subject will make cooperation more challenging. It even feels risky to say I abstain from alcohol and drugs because I know doing so has the potential of making me judgmental of the lifestyles of other people, subconsciously. With my friends and family I eventually just put my preferences out there because they saw more sides of me(the less boring ones), enough to accept my choice for what it is.

myresearch asked about conflicts and aggression so I will try to say more about picking battles in a separate response.

PSS: something that i wasn't sure about was liking people "with an organized mind" as i am not sure i see Te lead that way (it's not that they have a disorganized mind but i guess i see them as often having a sort of "managerial" logical mind...); like if organized means a mind like a crystal lattice or something that seems more Ti-ish (static not the Te moving logic); but it could just mean clear-headed... also adding to enneatype things, the "artistic flair" could be 4ish.

When I said "organised mind" I was thinking of my friend. She will set out the objective at the beginning of the day, and she will already know the way in which we'll achieve it - shift this piece of furniture before that one. It's as if she has the room plan saved to memory. I always need to touch and move things to be sure whether a design will work out (e.g. my bookshelf DIY) but she instinctively knows to move one piece of furniture before another - without using up energy moving the furniture to one position and possibly back again, as I might end up doing.

The organised mindset is also about going into an activity well-prepared: you know what you want (have a strong vision), how you want it done, the time to begin, and all the materials needed are available. My friend is smiley and warm, artistic - probably not a logical type.

[marooned]

@thistle i kinda felt like backtracking after that post because i thought it may have went a bit too far for the info available... but i agree with @myresearch that you seem 4d Fi - that is the info element that really seems to pop out over the internet as indisputably highest dimension.

I thought you raised some good points, especially about enneagram 6w5 behaviours - I'd never made the connection and can't really look past it now. 5 has the self-contained traits.

i can confuse 6 and 5 at times; like i could see someone saying this is more 5 sounding than 6:

t happens when I realise that there is something I must change in my life but I worry that the risks actually outweigh the benefits and I don't trust that I have calculated this accurately on my own - that I have gathered enough knowledge to make a well considered plan. I'm afraid of the change landing me in a worse position than I am now.

the 5 in descriptions has the emphasis on knowledge gathering like they are not prepared for the world and so they keep gathering knowledge to try to feel more prepared, but can end up still not engaging with the world because this being prepared enough thing ends up hanging on the horizon. but in the meantime they may become really knowledgeable about certain subjects which can lead to skills that build confidence and herald the epic integration towards 8. /states obvious/ it might be better to say it's head triad and not 7. and i wasn't really trying to enneatype you i just ahem went that way. i also kinda skipped over some 4ish sounding things.

What you highlighted as possible Si Hidden-Agenda: I think I am quite good at nesting without assistance/help. My work desk has items from home around it and I've sort of carved out my own corner there by making it comfortable for myself. In my own home I can feel when the room is too humid and know it would be beneficial to put up paler curtains to let more light through.

i am not sure... it seems maybe Si valuing? and i don't know if it rules out HA. i have this thing about not underestimating the HA because i feel it's like a function that can kinda grow over the course of life if one applies themselves and it probably wouldn't feel like a chore because the HA can be so stimulating.

Unusual sensations - the few times when I tried drinking to be social with friends or colleagues I could feel my face growing hot and a hum or buzz around me, and realised that I was not really joined to the group at all and that I had less control over what I was doing and saying. My first instinct was to keep on pouring myself glasses of water until the unreal feeling went away, and my body returned to normal.

i'm not sure especially since control is part of it. i remember someone i saw as ILI irl who avoided drugs because of fear of losing control and it wasn't so much the "sensing" but how it was signs leading up to the feared loss of control. i can't tell if this is like strong Si, weak valued Si, or weak unvalued Si. or 5/6ish /hides/

About The Talented Mr. Ripley in particular, it made me really anxious because I kept on thinking "he's about to get caught!...and then... no...and then!"
I get a more negative viewing experience, than an positive adrenaline one.

i always think Ni is the info element that is connected to feeling dread and ever-increasing suspense about what is coming next. i don't know if it's strong/weak, valued/unvalued...

I often make this choice of staying silent about particular views if I worry that raising the subject will make cooperation more challenging. It even feels risky to say I abstain from alcohol and drugs because I know doing so has the potential of making me judgmental of the lifestyles of other people, subconsciously. With my friends and family I eventually just put my preferences out there because they saw more sides of me(the less boring ones), enough to accept my choice for what it is.

this strikes me as 4d Fi first and foremost. maybe some Ni.

When I said "organised mind" I was thinking of my friend. She will set out the objective at the beginning of the day, and she will already know the way in which we'll achieve it - shift this piece of furniture before that one. It's as if she has the room plan saved to memory. I always need to touch and move things to be sure whether a design will work out (e.g. my bookshelf DIY) but she instinctively knows to move one piece of furniture before another - without using up energy moving the furniture to one position and possibly back again, as I might end up doing.

this sounds Te-ish to me... mb with Se of unknown dimension (the room plan part and possibly able to gauge spatial distance). but i mean all the 1d Te types appreciate help to cover the weak Te as well, it's just a matter of if it's valued or not...

The organised mindset is also about going into an activity well-prepared: you know what you want (have a strong vision), how you want it done, the time to begin, and all the materials needed are available. My friend is smiley and warm, artistic - probably not a logical type.

could she be IEE or SEE? *reaches for the Te HAs*

[VewyScawwyNawcissist]

You might have been influenced by me saying I relate most to IJ temperament.

In your experience is IJ temperament more likely to be robotic in their mannerisms than the other temperaments?

That's a good point about my Ne examples relating to Se, instead: because they involve objects and ways in which I can assemble them.

"robotic" i cant relate to any temperament. what's in what i said that u'd describe as "robotic"? do you mean "SEIs don't "strive" just push?i took IJ in socionic terms to mean u relate more to ESI. IJs in MBTI terms have a perceptive function that guides them. it's related partially in a particular way to conscientiousness which is also impulsivity. it means to follow ur inner impulses that come through the perceptive function. I defined Si here on behalf of a SEI as something like "doing things based on internal impulses". there is a rational function in Jungian terms about IP types that guides them instead. They make decisions more concsiously. IJs have a thing thats collection of perceptions interrelated overtime that makes them act as if they already know things while the IP seem to make a lot of calculations on the spot to make Se/Ne ideas about how they could handle something. in that sense IPs are more rigid that's valued 2D Si/Ni that keeps them thinking on one spot while IJs are continuous/fluid.

assembling objects could be Ni Ne with a Ti role and valued Te. since u said it happens rarely. if i scratch quadra values, LSEs tend to be very underhanded. EII is the reverse so u could be hating that?
a psychology thing about u giving those examples for Ne could also be that u lack something else instead which u happen to make up with Ne which u give as an example of Ne but it's a poor example if u want to "prove" Ne bc it could be too many other things. u also do seem pretty sheltered. so that could be ur life enabling u/forcing u to be stuck in Si instead of forcing u to/rewarding u for using Ne.
could be related to u having mentality like this

- To do as I say I will, try to avoid empty talk. I strive to do this as much as possible, but I am not perfect.

that i may have interpreted wrong. if an EII said it it could have a bit different meaning than ESI

ur life seems boring. EII can def struggle with that but they could also manage it/find shelter in that kind of thing. U seem stable living like that. ESIs when stagnate they suffer and indulge in something. I don't see that Se trying to break free in you. You could be indulging Ne, looking at different social scenarios and relationships when reading the books along with the Fi. The ESI I knew loved books but she couldnt do without drugs sex dressing up or traveling. We have Phoenix Fire going hard on doing her aesthetics thing. Now ESI is ruled out.

I'm afraid of the change landing me in a worse position than I am now.

Ti-Fe valuing.
*if intuitive. Fi Te ppl force things their way. this means if a change would make u in a bad position they would still take it bc they have to accocmodate Fi. then push through with Te. ESI would struggle more due to Ne PoLR.

now that i assume u have a Si comfort zone that rules out Se and thus ESI it gives context about what u said of ur "position now".
SEIs being 1D Ne makes them blind to Ne things sometimes AND they value Ne unlike ESI. SEIs dont avoid something that's too Ne for them in part bc they may fail to perceive its implications or not care enough bc they still want it and they dont lead with an introverted rational function to consider a lot further. in that way they take unintended risks. one is duck with knife and machine gun other is futuristic damaged robots. mine is Se. we go like that urs is Si. a worker bee? coincidence goes way too far. its also Te.

have to think about EII or IEE. u dont step on toes too much. u do think too much. i dont think u are Ti PoLR. Inumbra was right. prolly about ennea too.

i wonder if women are better at typing.

this site doesnt give proper notifications

[thistle]

@thistle Do you start any conflict or disagreement with anyone? If so can you give an example? If so are these people close to you or not or both?

If you got angry or aggresive can you give examples?

Your overall answers indicate 4D Fi btw, I can explain how I reach to that conclusion if you like.

I can begin an argument by stating a complaint to one of my parents, or to a partner. They will take an action that rubs me up the wrong way, and I let it slide, but later on it bubbles up and I state my complaint: "Why don't you trust me to clean after myself in your kitchen? When you rush to clean up around me it makes me feel like I'm creating extra work for you, and that makes me feel guilty and incapable". My mother (for above example) will be hurt by my words and will say she is just trying to be helpful and that her method of cleaning is preferable to the method I may use.
This is an example of me being aggressive, or looking for conflict by asking something in an accusatory way.

In public or with strangers I would prefer to be under the radar so I do not begin conflict.

Recently I saw two adults (my age) knowingly cut in line in front of a group of timid, soft-spoken teenagers. The teenagers looked startled by what happened but didn't speak up. I was a metre back in the queue and wanted to scold the adults and ask them why they thought they had special rights to push to the front, rather than wait and queue like everyone else was but I stayed silent and just stewed about it internally, because I didn't want to cause a scene.

There are several scenarios in my life where I have felt incensed about issues that are not mine to interfere with. Sometimes I go as far as imagining an argument with the offensive person, but in the end I keep silent while I witness these things happen.

A recent example of anger was when a customer service rep on the phone told me the number on a mail ticket didn't exist.

They repeatedly told me no, you have the number wrong. We repeated it aloud to each other several times to be sure, before they told me again that there was nothing they could do to help.
I could feel my voice growing stern toward this person, because the ticket booking was a daily procedure for me that was usually straightforward and I had the still-valid ticket right in front of me. "This should work, so the person I'm speaking with must be entering the details wrong somehow. They're wrong, not me".

Eventually I got fed up because I wasn't being provided with an alternative option or what I thought was an explanation that made sense.
I asked very bossily "Can you please look into whether another issue is causing the ticket to be rejected - such as my account being terminated?"

The person took my phone number, called me back and told me they had made a typo. With that typo fixed, my ticket was processed into the system ok.
Their voice sounded strained when they told me this news, and I felt bad for laying the pressure on and potentially getting them in trouble with their supervisor.
Because I also take calls from frustrated customers daily, as part of my job, I felt really guilty for doing the exact same thing - taking my frustration and aggression out on someone just because they're a stranger with a phone between us. That can happen, that I feel backed into a corner and lose my cool.

[roger557]

Are you good at defending yourself / have you ever been in a position where you've had to defend yourself?

[myresearch]

@thistle I extracted things that might mean too many things, also NTR things. Based on the overall answers, I thought 4DFi type is probable.

What is beauty?
When I encounter something that is beautiful I have noticed that I will feel a bit short of breath and that my hand will touch my chest over where my heart is. At the same time I have a thought like I am glad to be alive. -> might indicate high or valued Fi or Si



What are your most important values?
- To do as I say I will, try to avoid empty talk. I strive to do this as much as possible, but I am not perfect.-> might indicate Fi/Te valuing or IJ>EP
- To waste as little as possible.-> might indicate Fi/Te valuing



Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs?
When I am hesitant in a decision to take and my outside influences and pressures are confusing/conflicting, I sometimes become aware of a guiding voice inside me - I like to believe this is God acting through my conscience. -> might indicate low T or S



Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Effort should always be made to negotiate first. -> might indicate 4DFi or Fi HA

I don't think injustice is put right by violence or threats of violence. -> might indicate low or unvalued Se or T

One side will always have a real or perceived debt to settle as long as the belief is held that a withdrawal from conflict is cowardice or shame on your country. -> wording, perception indicates Fi/Te valuing: debt to settle



Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic?
Preventive measures are what I spend most of my time thinking about but I don't discuss this with others unless they express concerns similar to my own: to keep the organs of the body in good working order and not age them prematurely. I believe in some sort of holistic health - that is, when I care for my body my mind will be at peace too.-> not Si ignoring or Si-polr



What do you think of daily chores?
I look at it from the perspective of me caring for/tending to my home, by keeping it in good order. The same attitude I have toward my body. Healthy home, healthy mind - especially because when I am not working, I am usually at home. I do have OCD, so when objects are clean and in their places I immediately feel relaxed and free to move on to the next thing I need to do. -> might indicate high Si or F



Books or films you liked?
Usually I read non-fictions books that are sociology/social issues related. On my shelf at the moment I have a book about PTSD, criminal psychology and a brief history of the Vikings. I also like to read biographies of authors before I read their works. -> high or valued Fi

I like the movies Phantom Thread, Amour and Badlands. It's relieving to watch emotional teary movies - vicariously experiencing a passionate relationship without the hard work. -> high FOn the other hand, I can't stand tense thrillers - I couldn't even manage "A talented Mr Ripley", which I had to watch from behind a cushion with my eyes half closed.-> 4DFi or D4Si



Where do I feel at one:
Walking through a vast open landscape. It is wild and there is no excavation or subdividing of land in sight. I also feel at one when I'm decorating the inside of the store I work at. ->high or valued Si and F



What have people seen as your weaknesses?
- My sheltered world view. I'm wary to try new things - when pressed I can become stern and frigid, "no fun".->might indicate low N or IJ temp
- I don't catch up with friends as frequently as they would like to see me.-> might indicate introversion or static type
- It's scary to "loosen up" in social scenarios or to feel unusual sensations, so I don't use alcohol or drugs.-> might indicate introversion or static type


What have people seen as your strengths?
- My resourcefulness.-> might indicate S or T or Fi/Te valuing
- I've been told that I have a good eye for decorating and a calming unobtrusive presence.-> high Si or F
- I've been told that I am determined to solve a problem for a customer.-> might indicate IJ type



In what areas of your life would you like help?
I've always appreciated knowledgeable people who I can bounce questions/ideas/thoughts off without feeling like a nuisance for doing so. Essentially, I would like guidance with common knowledge, so I can integrate into social situations better.-> Low T>N

Ever feel stuck in a rut?
Yes, I wrote a blog entry about feeling this way.
It happens when I realise that there is something I must change in my life but I worry that the risks actually outweigh the benefits and I don't trust that I have calculated this accurately on my own - that I have gathered enough knowledge to make a well considered plan. I'm afraid of the change landing me in a worse position than I am now.-> might indicate introversion or low T



Qualities I like in other people:
I like people who have an "organised" mind.->T seeking or T HA



If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns?
My main concern would be that my child feels nurtured and bonded to me. -> might indicate 4D Fi type

[Great]

Impression: definitely Fi base. If I had to guess... ESI-Fi

[The Reality Denialist]

Some traces

I like people who have an "organised" mind.

This is because it helps you? I'd say this is something what an NF would say in a case like this.

My resourcefulness

This indicates Ne ego.

- I've been told that I have a good eye for decorating and a calming unobtrusive presence.

This is IXFX trait

Walking through a vast open landscape.

I think many Ip's would like to differ (I have seem them using items such as weighty blankets and like to help their anxiety). I think this could be Ne trait. You know agoraphobics and such – it seems counter intuitive to me. I feel at home being away from pressurizing objects.

My sheltered world view. I'm wary to try new things - when pressed I can become stern and frigid, "no fun".
- It's scary to "loosen up" in social scenarios or to feel unusual sensations, so I don't use alcohol or drugs.

Indicators of 4D Ni.

I limit contact with a person who undermines others insidiously: whether that's through sarcasm or cruel jokes, or something else.

Ethical, introverted, peripheral.

I don't catch up with friends as frequently as they would like to see me.

Apparently a trait that many process types have.

I prefer people who are somewhat predictable in their movements (who have a routine) and are decided in their tastes and their views.
- To do as I say I will, try to avoid empty talk. I strive to do this as much as possible, but I am not perfect.
- Sense of personal responsibility. When there's dirty work I don't really want to do, I push through the feeling of unpleasantness and do what's needed so I can mentally move on (have a clear head).
- To waste as little as possible.

Rational stuff

I look at it from the perspective of me caring for/tending to my home, by keeping it in good order. The same attitude I have toward my body. Healthy home, healthy mind - especially because when I am not working, I am usually at home. I do have OCD, so when objects are clean and in their places I immediately feel relaxed and free to move on to the next thing I need to do.
Inwardly I would have a nervous reaction, my stomach would tense and I would feel a lump in my throat.
Preventive measures are what I spend most of my time thinking about but I don't discuss this with others unless they express concerns similar to my own: to keep the organs of the body in good working order and not age them prematurely. I believe in some sort of holistic health - that is, when I care for my body my mind will be at peace too.
-I've been told that I have a good eye for decorating and a calming unobtrusive presence.

Let's see.. I think we have some hidden agenda indicators here and it is Si

The growing role of automation and its affect on wellbeing, a Universal Basic Income's effect on wellbeing, what to do about the e-waste that will have accumulated within the next 10~ years and to which parts of the world it will go for processing and recycling. Criminality, mental illness, recidivism and how to feel a sense of community, wherever that may be.

Te suggestive

Underhandedness and one-upmanship.

Probably relates poorly to holographic cognition. The view that does not see "holistic presence" as a valuable asset to utilize.

Observing pain and suffering.

Let's end it here.
I'm going to say EII. I'm fairly sure.

[thistle]

Are you good at defending yourself / have you ever been in a position where you've had to defend yourself?

In the first place I won't put myself in a position from where I have to defend myself, because it could have something to do with drawing attention to myself in a bad way.

Defending decisions or choices (with words): I prefer to sound out other people's opinions and borrow other people's knowledge before I act. That tends to mean I have accommodated a range of people in my ideas, and the ideas end up being more well-received than not. By the time my decision or choice is made apparent there exists a line of reasons I have gathered - these are my defenses to provide when I'm asked to.

Defending my personal space (with my body): If a person started tailing me on the street, depending on their demeanour I would ask them why. If they lashed out or tried to touch me without warning I could push them off or away from me. I could at least feel firm/balanced on my feet and try to walk us into a more populated area. The first part of this answer has not backfired on me yet, but I live in a relatively safe country.

[myresearch]

@thistle There is little to no evidence in terms of Se and Ne in both of your original and additional posts.

Some people focus and Se and see the lack of it and type you EII.

Some people focus and Ne and see the lack of it and type you ESI.

Your answers indicate towards Fi/Te valuing hence Fi-dom typings are reasonable.

ExI can be restrained by the usage of their creative function, it depends on other subtypes and individualistic features.

However, I think it is possible for you to be xEI as well, since some people's creative Fe is less apparent here online and mb irl.

Maybe the strength of your Si may shrink some possibilities.

How are you good and bad in terms of Si? Can you describe your Si usage in general?

[thistle]

@thistle There is little to no evidence in terms of Se and Ne in both of your original and additional posts.

Some people focus and Se and see the lack of it and type you EII.

Some people focus and Ne and see the lack of it and type you ESI.

Your answers indicate towards Fi/Te valuing hence Fi-dom typings are reasonable.

ExI can be restrained by the usage of their creative function, it depends on other subtypes and individualistic features.

However, I think it is possible for you to be xEI as well, since some people's creative Fe is less apparent here online and mb irl.

Maybe the strength of your Si may shrink some possibilities.

How are you good and bad in terms of Si? Can you describe your Si usage in general?

Thanks for articulating these points/inconsistencies that I noticed but didn't know how to act on. It may be due to lack of clear information provided by me that some of the suggested typings conflict. Initially I wanted to respond to every post in this thread with counter-thoughts but sometimes I have no idea what to say except for "Thanks, I'll think about what you said", which seems a pointless response.

Of the types suggested so far I think ESI is most accurate because I actively tie up loose-ends both in work and personal life, I don't have any sense of a long term plan for myself but set myself errands each day because I like the feeling of getting things done. For the same reason I like being given little jobs to do by/for someone else - anything to keep my day in order and me feeling responsible for something. To me this suggests stronger Se and Te, not polr, but I'm open to other people's interpretations.

Ne is not something I notice in myself but I notice it in Ne-dominant types - they seem verbally quick, I seem slow.

I listed some facts that could relate to either Si or Ni:

- In a previous job I had to make the same sized batch of baked goods every morning with slight variations on the flavours/filling. After making the recipe hundreds of times I stopped using measuring cups and would eyeball most of the quantities. A good batch could be judged by the viscosity/weight of the mixture against the spoon. I grow more confident in myself when I follow a routine as described above and get it down pat. It feels good to get into a rhythm.

- I have the same staple groceries that I buy but will pick up extra items depending on what my body tells me it is needing. If I had salad with dinner or cool foods for two nights in a row, my body clock tells me that I want cooked vegetables and hot dinners for the rest of the week. This is kind of a mindless/automatic response from me rather than a plan. Most of my health issues relate to my nervous system and digestion - I feel the sensitivity of this and attend to it so I can be involved and mobile throughout my day.

- I like to be in pyjamas and loose clothes as often as I can get away with it. I wear the same worn-in boots virtually every day because most other shoes are restrictive/impede my movement in some way. I get the boots resoled periodically because the exact replacement doesn't exist anymore.

- When something falls outside of the norm/routine I've become accustomed to it is immediately obvious to me. When it happens at work my internal flow chart is disrupted and I usually need someone else's input/help to decide what to do next.

- In the areas of my interests I can speak about the qualities of things in a detailed way. Instead of telling my friend I bought seafoam blue wire nets from Daiso and made them into a shelf, I described the interior of the store and that right to the back of the store you can find storage and curtain-assembling supplies. I was telling them that the nets come in various sizes but regardless of the difference in sizing, there is a single price point. If someone shows interest and I get talking, I can talk for a while on very specific topics in this sensory pedantic way.

If the points above describe Si accurately, I would say those things are a big part of who I am = good?

[Adam Strange]

Thanks for articulating these points/inconsistencies that I noticed but didn't know how to act on. It may be due to lack of clear information provided by me that some of the suggested typings conflict. Initially I wanted to respond to every post in this thread with counter-thoughts but sometimes I have no idea what to say except for "Thanks, I'll think about what you said", which seems a pointless response.

Of the types suggested so far I think ESI is most accurate because I actively tie up loose-ends both in work and personal life, I don't have any sense of a long term plan for myself but set myself errands each day because I like the feeling of getting things done. For the same reason I like being given little jobs to do by/for someone else - anything to keep my day in order and me feeling responsible for something. To me this suggests stronger Se and Te, not polr, but I'm open to other people's interpretations.

Ne is not something I notice in myself but I notice it in Ne-dominant types - they seem verbally quick, I seem slow.

I listed some facts that could relate to either Si or Ni:

- In a previous job I had to make the same sized batch of baked goods every morning with slight variations on the flavours/filling. After making the recipe hundreds of times I stopped using measuring cups and would eyeball most of the quantities. A good batch could be judged by the viscosity/weight of the mixture against the spoon. I grow more confident in myself when I follow a routine as described above and get it down pat. It feels good to get into a rhythm.

- I have the same staple groceries that I buy but will pick up extra items depending on what my body tells me it is needing. If I had salad with dinner or cool foods for two nights in a row, my body clock tells me that I want cooked vegetables and hot dinners for the rest of the week. This is kind of a mindless/automatic response from me rather than a plan. Most of my health issues relate to my nervous system and digestion - I feel the sensitivity of this and attend to it so I can be involved and mobile throughout my day.

- I like to be in pyjamas and loose clothes as often as I can get away with it. I wear the same worn-in boots virtually every day because most other shoes are restrictive/impede my movement in some way. I get the boots resoled periodically because the exact replacement doesn't exist anymore.

- When something falls outside of the norm/routine I've become accustomed to it is immediately obvious to me. When it happens at work my internal flow chart is disrupted and I usually need someone else's input/help to decide what to do next.

- In the areas of my interests I can speak about the qualities of things in a detailed way. Instead of telling my friend I bought seafoam blue wire nets from Daiso and made them into a shelf, I described the interior of the store and that right to the back of the store you can find storage and curtain-assembling supplies. I was telling them that the nets come in various sizes but regardless of the difference in sizing, there is a single price point. If someone shows interest and I get talking, I can talk for a while on very specific topics in this sensory pedantic way.

If the points above describe Si accurately, I would say those things are a big part of who I am = good?

This sounds ESI to me from top to bottom.

My grandmother was ESI and she’d bake exactly like that. She was an amazing cook and left no recipes

I know (and like) an ESI whose wardrobe, I suspect, consists entirely of pajamas worn with loose boots.

I also know a couple of ESIs who dress to the nines. I wonder what is the difference?

[inaLim]

Thanks for taking the time to write this out and for sharing your thought process.

While I understand how you arrived at EII (perhaps by considering the different clubs and whether I fit and then ruling out functions not-valued and the less likely types), I noticed you did not quote a part of my questionnaire which suggests strong valued Ne.

It's pedantic of me, but I'm mentioning it because I don't score high in Ne when I take tests and would like to have an idea of how much less Ne I have (than an IEE), to put this in perspective. I have added two more examples to this thread, which hopefully give a clearer idea of my relation to Ne than the questionnaire did

Based on descriptions I agree that LSE like to be a "go-to" person for advice and directions, and maybe LIE wouldn't mind.

I can't do it from this questionnaire.

If you're set on Fi valuing, then answering this thread might give enough to work with. (specifically the way anndelise and Pheonix Fire answered it)


**Normally I wouldn't nitpick this, but it might be relevant for you using ITR to lock in on your type. That wasn't my thought process, that was pointing to the parts I figured we both can see. (unpacking layers of Ti is a slog) I'll post in the Fi PoLR thread, and you can see if we're conflict (mutual lack of understanding) or supervision (revision/correction) if you want

[thistle]

This sounds ESI to me from top to bottom.

My grandmother was ESI and she’d bake exactly like that. She was an amazing cook and left no recipes

I know (and like) an ESI whose wardrobe, I suspect, consists entirely of pajamas worn with loose boots.

I also know a couple of ESIs who dress to the nines. I wonder what is the difference?

Adam it is nice to get your input on my type whatever it might be.

It is sad to lose family recipes because they're so tied into specific memories of persons, events. It's the same for lost places - like a favourite restaurant that has since shut down. Wanting to continue their recipe is like invoking (their) presence, bringing that back close to you to relive it.

Your grandmother might have made small tweaks to the recipe over the years - sometimes depending on circumstance, such as what is currently in the kitchen cabinet The problem with that method of small tweaks is that unless you record the adjustments in the margins of a book, the recipe's secrets stay locked in your own mind. I have seen elaborate notes written in second-hand recipe books and wondered whether that was the conscientiousness of LSE. My dad is LSE and his office whiteboard is so densely covered in lists, memos, Wi-Fi passwords and instructions that you can barely see the white surface anymore.

The easiest way for me to show someone a recipe or any other task I do is for them to shadow me while I do it. I'm not sure whether it is related to cognition, that I can teach better when I'm in motion. My good friend is also single and lives alone; we meet up every couple of weeks and cook a meal together. It involves a lot of showing by doing, but is mostly me demonstrating how to work within a tiny apartment kitchen and tidy/clean up as you go so you don't have to associate home-cooking with hassle and a pile of dirty dishes.

By the way, outside of the recipes I practised daily at my old job I would not consider myself an amazing cook. Being frugal and wanting to make things from scratch is a great motivator/carrot.

Unfortunately I don't have an answer to ESIs who dress impeccably vs those who dress more "utilitarian". Whether I'm ESI or not, I have good awareness of the impression given by the way you style yourself. There have been times in my life when I dressed more stylishly, and I strongly associate that with attracting people toward me who I would not describe as "moderate".

There's an element of managing people's expectations of you. When you dress in comfortable practical clothing you project a truth about yourself, and in my case I would like someone to know upfront that I'm conservative and not especially girly. There is also an element of dressing to the situation. There is no dress code at my main workplace but everyone wears jeans and sneakers - I want to be a part, so I dress the part.

[Adam Strange]

Adam it is nice to get your input on my type whatever it might be.

It is sad to lose family recipes because they're so tied into specific memories of persons, events. It's the same for lost places - like a favourite restaurant that has since shut down. Wanting to continue their recipe is like invoking (their) presence, bringing that back close to you to relive it.

Your grandmother might have made small tweaks to the recipe over the years - sometimes depending on circumstance, such as what is currently in the kitchen cabinet The problem with that method of small tweaks is that unless you record the adjustments in the margins of a book, the recipe's secrets stay locked in your own mind. I have seen elaborate notes written in second-hand recipe books and wondered whether that was the conscientiousness of LSE. My dad is LSE and his office whiteboard is so densely covered in lists, memos, Wi-Fi passwords and instructions that you can barely see the white surface anymore.

The easiest way for me to show someone a recipe or any other task I do is for them to shadow me while I do it. I'm not sure whether it is related to cognition, that I can teach better when I'm in motion. My good friend is also single and lives alone; we meet up every couple of weeks and cook a meal together. It involves a lot of showing by doing, but is mostly me demonstrating how to work within a tiny apartment kitchen and tidy/clean up as you go so you don't have to associate home-cooking with hassle and a pile of dirty dishes.

By the way, outside of the recipes I practised daily at my old job I would not consider myself an amazing cook. Being frugal and wanting to make things from scratch is a great motivator/carrot.

Unfortunately I don't have an answer to ESIs who dress impeccably vs those who dress more "utilitarian". Whether I'm ESI or not, I have good awareness of the impression given by the way you style yourself. There have been times in my life when I dressed more stylishly, and I strongly associate that with attracting people toward me who I would not describe as "moderate".

There's an element of managing people's expectations of you. When you dress in comfortable practical clothing you project a truth about yourself, and in my case I would like someone to know upfront that I'm conservative and not especially girly. There is also an element of dressing to the situation. There is no dress code at my main workplace but everyone wears jeans and sneakers - I want to be a part, so I dress the part.

@thistle, please note that I didn't say you were ESI, I just said that what you related coincided with my experience with some ESIs. I really haven't made a study of you wrt your type, and even if I did, there's a good chance I'd be wrong.

[thistle]

@inaLim thanks, those are good ideas. I'll have to think about how to respond to that thread on Introverted Ethics - maybe that overthinking is a sign Fi is not valued. It's difficult for me to discuss the information elements without plucking scenarios from my life as examples and I've noticed that can get too personal.

[aixelsyd]

Why would overthinking be a sign of anything?

[thistle]

Why would overthinking be a sign of anything?

Because if the answer's not at the forefront of my mind to just pluck out and articulate freely, I might not be utilising a leading function at all, but the other side of the coin. To answer the question I might be drawing on a function of lower strength, for example.

[aixelsyd]

Because if the answer's not at the forefront of my mind to just pluck out and articulate freely, I might not be utilising a leading function at all, but the other side of the coin. To answer the question I might be drawing on a function of lower strength, for example.

Okay. That makes sense.

[adage]

Because if the answer's not at the forefront of my mind to just pluck out and articulate freely, I might not be utilising a leading function at all, but the other side of the coin. To answer the question I might be drawing on a function of lower strength, for example.

Makes me wonder, what's at the forefront of your mind and is easy to pluck out and articulate?
Unless that's too personal.

I think that this forefront thing is telling of something, what exactly, idk.

[thistle]

Makes me wonder, what's at the forefront of your mind and is easy to pluck out and articulate?
Unless that's too personal.

I think that this forefront thing is telling of something, what exactly, idk.

I think it is telling of something too. Socionics Model A's Vital functions "manifest without words" and "in the process of doing things" - that strikes me as relevant.

The thoughts that are easiest for me to articulate are just observations of things I have done and what lessons or knowledge I have taken away from it. Online I see people refer to these as their N=1 experiences.

Fi must have some part in the decisions I make. I retrace the decisions I make better than I can articulate what something made me feel (feelings which may have inspired my decision). So there's that.

[myresearch]

@thistle

Some of the stuff that indicates lack of Se could be due to high F so it may not be a lack.

Some of the stuff that indicates Se could be due to IJ temp and not Se.

I am still not sure if your answers point towards 4D Si or Si valuing.


So my current questions:

Are you clumsy? Have you injured yourself by falling etc?

How do you treat people you don't like? Do they know that you don't like them or do you keep them at the distance in a non negative way? If your answer is yes to both, can you give examples?

[thistle]

@myresearch, I wonder if by that do you mean I reconsider applying pressure or doing things my own way, because of my values and wanting to keep positive relations with others?

Only a lack of rest/sleep will cause me to be clumsy - I'm pretty steady and coordinated.

Something I've noticed which might be important: when I or someone around me does something clumsy (e.g. drops an egg or a glass on the floor, cuts their finger), I'm very undisturbed by it and calmly go to fix what has come undone - all of my usual anxiety disappears, because I become focused. I don't swear at myself or the other person under my breath, because these things happen and life goes on.

There are not many people who I encounter in my day to day life who I do not want to like.

Months ago I had a disagreement with a manager of a store who has little involvement with the store I work in but - the first time we met and worked together, we undermined each other's plans without meaning to. I noticed that the following time we happened to be in a room together she blanked me out completely. I intended to greet her and convey that I mean well but she would not meet my eyes after multiple attempts, so I left the room to remove the tension in the air.

When customers who rub me up the wrong way come to the counter I often "happen" to be on the other side of the store busying myself while my colleague chats with them instead.
It is difficult for me to hide my irritation when I serve that particular customer, so I would prefer to give them a wide berth.

In my personal life I have only willingly pushed one person away. We had five years of friendship that did not become as intimate as I hoped and suggested it to be. Because they kept me on the sidelines I eventually ignored them completely, which felt like me giving punishment for the hurt they had caused me.