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    Default Picard

    This is the official thread.


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    official thread about aliens ®

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    Did anyone else watch this? What did you think? I was disappointed. The new Abrams / Kurtzman / Discovery timeline doesn't really appeal to me. EDIT: not that there's anything wrong with enjoying it, it just isn't my preference (which is closer to 1990's trek).
    Last edited by xerx; 10-29-2020 at 02:20 AM. Reason: edit

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    So far the series will not be extremely memorable to me as mostly I already just think of it as a bit of a nostalgic get together for previous cast and am still not sure on the new casting.
    I did think some of the issues Picard was experiencing were likely his own life issues but now can’t remember what those were and would need to refresh by viewing the first few episodes again more than likely, which I won’t be doing anytime soon.
    Sets were great, filming great but Picard now being so advanced in age increased the slowness of the storyline which needed some excuse for him to come out of retirement occurring with the “daughters of Data” excuse.
    The world would have changed a bit since Picard retired however as of yet not much of that has been explored in the story.
    I choose to see the first series as an introduction and hope for more from series two.

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    Lame, only got to a few episodes. The characterizations were way off, and the script was awful. I feel bad for Picard, the show was not worthy of him. I heard he helped produce it, so maybe he is also to blame?

    The tired old man gets kicked out of the Establishment then goes rogue trope is super low grade. Gene Roddenbury would have been disappointed. Nothing note worthy about it.

    BTW, I am only interested in the original and Picard, because I grew up with a mix between Jean-Luc and Trump. So..go figure. Seeing elderly Picard makes me think of my own Father who is getting up there.

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    (post has mild spoilers for shows picard and discovery)

    i thought picard started out quite promising in terms of the questions it set up and the characters, but then it over-simplified itself towards the end of the season. it seemed to take a turn at that episode visiting the riker/troi homestead and all the character development and story became a bit too simple after that point. for instance, the main character's process of discovery was cut short by how she now is just kind of able to remember everything all of a sudden. i think it followed the mystery box model of storytelling and it's nice at first because everything is so mysterious, but often the story can't adequately satisfy its own mysteries and just resorts to simple stuff in the end, dumping complexity.

    unfortunately i can't remember it all that well since i got rid of my cbs all access subscription asap. i'm not terribly interested in season 2 for picard either, although i have been able to watch discovery and seem to find certain things about it that some others find annoying actually amusing. for instance i hate the spore drive and thought that was stupid and i didn't like how michael was inserted into spock's family (not that this is the first time someone was inserted into spock's family) but all of this grew on me with time and i was deeply satisfied when the spore drive was wiped from all official record (for continuity!) because i thought it was all so stupid in the first place and that the writers kind of wrote themselves into a corner and their attempt to fix the continuity problem was funny. over the top things like passionate speeches about star fleet crack me up more than make me cringe. it's funny that that one klingon managed to gain peace by threatening to destroy the klingon homeworld (so stupid). i guess all the stupid just makes me laugh and it's probably because enough of the characters grew on me. i also wouldn't say discovery is worse than star trek: enterprise, per se.

    anyway, i guess i don't mind the new trek. i recognize it isn't the old trek, but things can't stay the same forever and i don't mind the way this is trying to be different too much. i suppose my biggest objection is the actual sci-fi seems weaker than i would like (much weaker than previous star trek except perhaps for the original series). that applies very much to picard after it dumped its complexity.

    ---

    ETA: and then I change my mind

    I've seen some of the latest star trek discovery and I don't like the over the top identity politics in place of any story. It's all "representation" and little of substance. They break the fourth wall to pat themselves on the back. I'm honestly tired of so much of the film/TV industry. Rich morons who have lost touch with anything but their own reflections.

    Burn.
    Last edited by marooned; 12-29-2020 at 04:22 AM.

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    Yeah I pretty much agree with @inumbra (as usual) and I also would like to add I don't mind having the minority characters but it's just Token-ism. I can't really relate either as they don't go through any proper struggle with it so it's not important even though they try to make it important. We don't see any discrimination, and I think it's too naive to say that all discrimination would completely go away just cuz it's the future. It doesn't have to be too heavy or grimdark (I don't like that either) but there's no conflict and they just PC-ishly pat themselves on the back for it. It really is quite dumb. All the "good moments" on Discovery feel way too unearned.

    And it ends up not being genuine at all because the Te-valuing white straight male characters (whether human or alien) STILL make the best Captains so it's all tell and no show as well. Like in Voyager, Janeway was a female captain but she fit the part so much better because Kate Mulgrew's presence was naturally strong and tough regardless of her being female or not. And it didn't make the same type of platitudes about it either. In Discovery there is no good leadership. Saru is somewhat okay but he's still too like passive and nicey-nice to be captain to me. He would maybe be an okay-ish number one- and then Michael herself is too all over the place & ambivalent to lead and Tilly is *obviously* not the right choice. There's no good leader for me to get into, and all the SJW stuff is just Token-isms with no substance.

    I also cringed when the gay male couples like had wine glasses and danced Opera with each other. It felt more offensive and stereotypical to me as a gay man than anything real anyway. lol. I think it's true gay guys really aren't as masculine the way straight men are usually but that was too much lol.

    To be fair, at least the series has stopped trying to be Game of Thrones in space...(nothing wrong with GoT to me but it's dumb how many shows tried to copy it just because they wanted to ride the coat-tails of its success) but it needs to make the characters go through real personal and professional struggles again. And more objective world buliding- the character drama stuff feels better when it's balanced with more descriptions of what the planets are like and the Technobabble stuff that they got rid of to dumb it down for Normies.

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    As for 'Picard' - I think the biggest problem was that it broke the 4th wall too much in ways instead of being true to the world. I think breaking the 4th wall so much only works in a story that's very light-hearted or a comedy. The tone of Trek doesn't really warrant it. As Trek was always 'light' usually (except for DS9) but also never really a comedy like that. And yeah the real world is gritty and grimdark- but we don't really watch Star Trek for a complete reflection on the "real world" so those speehes about how 'but space is just cold and empty you shouldn't be an over idealistic ******!' - even though they were technically true, I don't think it belonged in the world. If it's so cold and empty and useless why are you flying up in it? Retard.

    What I also mean about the 4th wall breaking is that to me the actors played themselves too much instead of the characters they were supposed to be playing. Marina Sirtis in real life is kind of over-bearing and naggish- she's not really that 'therapist-like' at all like Deanna Troi is supposed to be - but in Picard she doesn't have the sweetness/gentle feminity of her original TNG character and is instead more like herself: A nagging overbearing fisherman's wife type. (lol sorry I know I'm mean but she was mean to fans first) It doesn't really work for me.

    And Picard really isn't our Picard from TNG either. He kinda has lost a lot of his diplomacy and likable fatherly persona and went more for action movie hero thing because the actor himself wants Picard to be that way even though it's usually not what the fans want. The first couple episodes he's more like his original character somewhat but it was just a tease to fool old fans into buying the show, as he quickly started to just be silly and over the top action guy.

    Can't actors- y'know act, and get over themselves and their own stupid narcissism? I hate Hollywood lol.
    Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 01-03-2021 at 06:56 PM.

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    Janeway might be LSE, but Picard in the original series was textbook LSI.

    He spends his free time in his office analyzing events, and he has the kind of Fe flamboyance LSI often show, including their diplomacy. For example tough commander types that sit and listen to Opera by themselves to "feel something".

    You can see the same motif with Daniel Day Lewis.

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    Yeah this TV show is crud. Not up to the bar with what else has been on TV these days. I stopped watching after episode 4. To contrived. Picard should have stayed true to character. The way he gets beat down so much is a uninspiring trope that is so common among reboots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Janeway might be LSE, but Picard in the original series was textbook LSI.

    He spends his free time in his office analyzing events, and he has the kind of Fe flamboyance LSI often show, including their diplomacy. For example tough commander types that sit and listen to Opera by themselves to "feel something".

    You can see the same motif with Daniel Day Lewis.
    Janeway ESI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Janeway ESI
    She sure made a lot of logistical choices. I'm all for her being decisive Se, but it doesn't really fit. I'd say its on you to justify.

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    Picard felt kinda different from the traditional format of the Star trek series, and I actually enjoyed the slower, more "introverted" pace and the interpersonal dynamics. I think Picard is ILI in the show. I didn't watch TNG so I can't really say if the Picard character/type has been changed. The show isn't really worth watching for the plot however; inumbra puts it well in her post above. More something to watch while peeling potatoes or cooking dinner, bc you'll only need half a braincell to understand it anyway.

    Discovery felt like a propaganda show for starfleet. I watched the preachy virtuous speeches over social values and all those people being moved to tears at the word 'starfleet' and I felt like I was watching aliens(is that social last?). I liked empress Philippa Georgiou tho(she was the only credible character).
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 09-28-2021 at 02:07 PM.

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    i had how i wanted to see that last season of discovery go (the last one i watched, was it 3?). i liked the previews hinting at prophet michael who has been catapulted into a future in which her precious star fleet doesn't exist and goes around giving rousing speeches to restore starfleet's lost ideals or revive them where they are hidden, not vanished! (but in a more subtle philosophical way, not that star fleet is hiding in an asteroid field or nebula or whatever) i was so looking forward to the campyness and the cringey inspiring speeches... but it was like this "vision" of it being that actually star fleet is largely gone (not hidden and still very much alive like it was in the actual season) and not for a stupid reason (like the stupid explanation in the actual season), because the image of the prophet is so much more satisfying when all seems lost (instead of nothing is really lost... it's all still there and there was just a you know minor problem to solve in the epic scheme of things). and i was just like, the show is so campy and over the top emo, that this would have been a way to use that to their advantage rather than to their detriment.

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    yeah jeez Delta Utopia Land gays are accepted in a PC Te way and there's no homophobia or misogyny any more because why? Did they implement some sort of weird Mind Control chip in str8 male asshole brains that ultimately makes them cool with everything? It's bizarre to me. ((I mean it's so predictable as to what Deltas do- ignore your real pain and struggles and pretend everything is fine again because a IEE said something superficial but 'inclusive' about a frothy identity))

    Nah I don't want to eternally 'stay a victim.' that's how Deltas often interpret this and misunderstand it. It's not about that it's about being real. And real art has a dark transcedence. I want to see them go thru real homophobia and come out of it- like the struggle. But make the struggle look real and grounded and realistically sadistic ((doesn't have to be edgy)). Many gay men/women grow up in rural or blue collar areas not with some silver spoon in our mouths. It's just dumb.

    You don't get to drink wine with your boyfriend & listen to Opera and stay in your Timely Decorated space ship and ignore it! Real gay men who actually were in some sorta street fight in their life are more respectful to me- this is just Se dual seeking sure but it's too Delta. I hate it. My IEE cousin would eat this crap up and probably cry at them and say to me' see? That's what I want for you too!' God she means well but I kind of hate her. The wine glass scene also reminded me of Treasure Island Media porn where the gay dudes will cum and drink each other's semen in the wine glasses. It's pervy and animalistic and I wouldn't do something like that either, but at least it's more real.

    and wilson cruz sentimentally crying up and tearing up how he thought he would never be accepted by Deltards but finally was and they all go 'aww' and patronizingly clap at his coming out speech doesn't count as proper transcendece either. Real homophobia and misogny is about real blood and sweat & tears and vaginal fluid juices that was lost and regained - a real stake. We are too powerful and mature for this shit. It's about our survival- and our right to exist. It is not about begging to be accepted like a submissive dog. It is such a cheap veneer of what true social justice is about.

    okay I just had to get that out of my system. I think we are transitioning back to alpha again as a society... but maybe not. It sorta feels that way tho.

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    yes it's funny bc one complaint trekkies have had about both picard and discovery, though especially picard, is that it's gone dystopian. i'm okay with it being dystopian if they don't mess up the characters too badly. my greatest annoyance in picard character-wise what what they did with 7 of 9. i thought it was the wrong path for that character to get all vengeful like that. it's not that she isn't capable, it's just it felt forced because they wanted a vigilante.

    but with discovery i thought they should have went hard dystopia in the last season... but i mean in their campy inspirational all ethics no logic way ofc (i am honoring their style!). since they are using the show to spout moral values for society, and since they have a dystopian bent already, they could have just used every episode as a metaphor to various problems they wanna "bring social justice to" and michael can be prophet michael in every episode about it. but the dramatic pay off only works if things are actually BAD. like they were way too weak on the dystopian aspect. they just wanted like a slight flavor or hint of it but it's still fluffy lol. and in my mind it wasn't "bold enough."

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    @Shazaam are deltas really so PC? I thought Discovery was kinda gamma and so/sp, with the latter being the real PC stacking. I didn't appreciate the superficial mushiness and wouldn't have had anything against 1 or 2 dicks on screen either. I think I'm so-last because I have trouble caring about how groups are socially represented in media though, so maybe I'm not really representative of the "deltards" you wish to criticize, lol

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    sorry @lkdhf qkb I don't think all IEEs would respond that way or anything. I was being kinda ranty. I think logically speaking Star Trek: Discovery started off Gamma but then "progressed" into Delta. I don't say the word progresssed in bitchy text quotes to make fun of Deltas or Gammas - just I thought the entire show was kinda meh to begin with.

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    i guess i thought the show was alpha/delta (discovery) like i do feel its way of moral messaging is delta... but i feel like it's emotionalism might be more Fe than Fi... especially last season with all. the. crying. lol (not to say tears are Fe only but...)

    but it's not like all deltas have the same views... discovery is kinda a woke show, and the wokeness is probably delta-ish, originating from the very mainstream hollywood liberal expression of the quadra... but this same quadra has a lot of extreme conservative types... shows like discovery seem to often be highly criticized by conservative delta STs lol.

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    I haven't finished watching TNG yet, so I haven't picked up this series, but that people say it's bad even in comparison to past Trek is a real disappointment.

    Star Trek is painful. I'm not sure why I watch it. I feel the ideas are original enough to make the franchise into a real masterpiece, but the execution is always just lacking so much that it's a struggle to sit through.
    Last edited by FreelancePoliceman; 09-30-2021 at 12:14 AM.

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    I'll give season 2 a shot, although I'm not expecting the formula to be different. While season 1 of Picard certainly wasn't my cup of tea, it could still have turned out worse than it did. Nothing in Star Trek lore is worse than that TNG episode where they visit the "planet of racist African stereotypes", or that unintentionally sexist episode where they visit the "planet of the large women".

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    why don't i know which episodes those are? /feels so unaware/

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    why don't i know which episodes those are? /feels so unaware/
    Code of Honor
    Angel One

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    I skipped parts of it, but s2 was better than s1. It still isn't my cup of tea, but the show has some interesting ideas.

    I liked the Borg and the Borg queen. Showing the psychological aspect of the assimilation process, Picard's explanation for what it feels like to be a Borg drone (they're kept in an ecstatic state), added depth to the Borg. The fact that it feels good to be Borg makes the race more interesting.
    Last edited by xerx; 06-21-2022 at 12:29 AM. Reason: .

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