For me, an EII, my extinguishers (EIEs) are the worst

[tuathe]

I don't know if extinguishment relations are actually the worst in general, maybe for other types it's super-ego, business or conflict relations, but for me, EIEs are worse than SLEs.

EIEs do feel like my complete opposite in a way that they don't value what I do at all despite being good at it. And for me, it is worse for a person to be good at the same things that I am yet reject them as unimportant, than not to value things they're not even good at in the first place (like SLEs or LSIs). Also, with Beta STs, we rarely even meet because we're so different, and when we do meet, it's easy for me to just ignore them if need be, or simply stay on a superficial level and not go deeper. Heck, I actually have an SLE friend and we're doing fine.

But EIEs? Just like any other NF type, it's much easier for me to meet them. And when we do, it's harder for me to run away from the feeling of being judged all the time, for not being... more like them, basically, or more beta-ish in general. For being too sensitive and too serious for their taste, for not enjoying and not participating in their kind of humour, for being a party-pooper, I think that's how they see me, in short.

This is not to say that EIEs are bad as people, or that I resent them, or that I hate them. It is only to say that I think the EII-EIE relations, of any kind, may be much harder in practice than the theory paints them to be (yes, to the point of being equally bad or even worse than conflict relations). Sure, personal maturity plays a huge role, but still.

I wonder, too, is there any EII here with similar thoughts?

[Sol]

When the theory works stably strangely, then most possibly that types and IR are other.

Also. If you deal more with some not good IR types - they may annoy you more due the quantity of communications, not because they are harder as persons. The chance to communicate with more similar types is higher. For example, I had significant conflicts with beta T, but they did not touched me deeply.

[The Reality Denialist]

Usually, it just seems to go better when fire extinguisher prevents open fire.

[Bethanyclaire]

Depends on the individual. I have two very valuable friendships with IEEs. They are so/sx and so/sp. I had an sx/so IEE friend who I fell out with..

I can have quite deep talks with them and we are similar in some ways. I think maybe it’s less likely for say an sx/sp to be friends with their contrary..or maybe it’s an EIE/EII thing too

[Beautiful sky]

Yes
I do have EIE friends from childhood but we never get close and maintain a close relationships because eventhough they are social and can have sizeable parties I always feel as though I am undervalued and somehow watched and judged.

[persimmonism]

It also depends for me with IEE. One of my closest friends is an IEE-Ne 7. But there are others where i feel the "extinguishment" way more. I think for me it's a bit better with Ne sub because their Fe demonstrative is stronger. I don't get the feeling they take everything i say in the moment so seriously as IEE-Fi.

Perhaps the extraverted extinguisher being a beta versus a delta is a factor just because of the nature of the two quadras (at least for EIE-EII versus IEI-IEE) ?

Even when i feel the extinguishment dynamic more strongly i don't think i feel as undervalued as you describe. Judged, though, yes! I have to hold my tongue and pay attention to my words. I'm too dramatic and verbally provocative and am looked down upon for this.

[Lord Pixel]

Idk if it's worse than other relations, I got an EIE friend who is like a brother to me. Where the socionics takes place is when I noticed that the way he thinks doesn't always make sense to me and that I have to suppress myself and if I don't I have to deal with his Se. Also his need for Fe and Se. Like he's more about fighting things out and yelling to solve a conflict, when I'm more like let's cool off then talk later, and neither of us can compromise to the other, when I shut down it makes him get more loud and when he gets more loud I just shut down more. And other more nuanced muddy things.

For instance, my friend will assert weird theories as fact, with NO evidence. My guess is he has a strong Ni hunch about the theory being true, and he will fight me tooth and nail if I don't agree with his weird theory or hunch backed by NO evidence. I naturally search for the evidence via Ne, troubleshoot all the possibilities and I don't come to the same conclusion, and if I tell my friend I don't see what he sees or challenge his theory, his Se comes out to try and get me to blindly submit and agree with his weird theory by yelling and he will try and condemn me morally for not agreeing with his "morally superior" opinion and say how immoral I am for not believing him or being able to see what he sees. And then in turn he'll change his opinion next week. SMH.

This need to blindly agree with him or else, has made me choose to not share any opinions while I'm around him, pretty much makes me suppress myself. Ne just see's the holes and how 2 things don't connect, but his Ni just has a strong hunch and doesn't want to be doubted, and he gets angry I can't clearly see and am not convinced of his leaps in logic. It's like he wants me to violate my own conscience to get along with him.

An example: He made a huge claim that a certain race of people are descendants of Native Americans simply because some celebrities' photos looked similar to some Native American photos, therefore the whole race descends from Native Americans. And I'm supposed to blindly believe him without question unless I wanna deal with a hissy fit, so I just let him talk now or change the subject.

There are also other times where he will connect loose ideas together in an impressive way but in an argument he will take the argument to places I NEVER even guessed or intended for it to go because he's connected it to something else. One time we argued about whether a WWE wrestler was ready for UFC fighting, he turned the argument into UFC fighting is immoral because it's a modern day version of the Roman Coliseum and whoever watches it is a savage. I was impressed with the comparison, that's a cool conclusion, but it never proved whether the WWE guy was ready for the UFC lol. And after spending a good 15 minutes trying to condemn me of being an immoral savage for watching it, next week he's talking to me about Ronda Rousey losing her first fight. -_-. I had to bite my tongue because I'm sure he would have found a way to explain away the contradiction and I would have been locked into another 15 minutes of him telling me what's wrong with me and his way is right.

I remember a moment where he was playing a video game, he's Ni/Se with Si PoLR so he sees through the game, see's it as an entertainment object and doesn't get fully immersed plays the game in the order he wants, like he clearly sees the reality of the situation, I'm Ne/Si with Se PoLR, so I get fully immersed in the game and play the game in the order I think it's meant to be played, I'm trying to escape the reality and give into the illusion. So we have 2 different ways of enjoying video games. He plays and skips all the cutscenes and just wants to get to the meat of the action. I watched him play a game for the first time and he skipped all the cutscenes, all I did was express some frustration like "Oh man I can't watch you play this lol. Your skipping all the cutscenes." Next thing you know he's giving me another 15 minute lecture about what's wrong with me and how I am like Jazz and he's like the Blues and how I'm too rigid stuck in routine and making all kind of comments about my character based off this little comment, and he's dead serious. All from a comment I made from watching him play a game. So do you think I express any frustration around him anymore? Not unless I want a 15 minute lecture of why I'm wrong and he's right lol. This has happened too many times for me not to know better now. 1 comment springs into a whole slew of accusations that come out of thin air. He coulda just said "You watch the cutscenes? You're lame." or something and saved 15 minutes.

I've never felt like a party pooper though. But him and his wife are beta and I don't get their sense of humor and they feel judged by me simply because I don't smoke weed and they do.

I do relate to the idea that we get so close we hurt each other, that I've experienced and the making fun of each other in public. It's like this person sees things opposite of you and the way that's translated is you seeing this person as being "ridiculous."(like that example above) and then when you get around other people, just out of some frustration of having to deal with this person's "ridiculous thoughts/behaviors." you vent to anyone who will hear you out, to show your friend that your not the only one that finds their behavior weird.

There are times where he reminds me of a shaman that says alot of vague words but if you ask him to explain he says "You are not wise enough to understand the words I teach." "You are not connected to the spirit, if you were you would understand my words." or something, and I never get an explanation.

But overall things are good between us ever since I decided to just let him say what he wants to say without asking questions lol, things have been peaceful, which was an easy compromise for me. I've had worse IR with other types, because with some other types I don't know what I have to do, or can't find an easy compromise, to get to a peaceful relationship.

[Bethanyclaire]

Also, these relationships are supposed to better one on one, not in groups. There is something special
about them, even if they can be a bit stressful. With my IEE friends, if I am upset about something (not with them haha) I do feel like they can really empathise. It’s like a shared feeling of knowing how sad and tough things can be and you know they have experienced it in a similar way to you. And they will tell you so..I don’t feel judged by them in these moments..I actually feel very loved.

[Beautiful sky]

My mom is an EII and there was an odd dynamic. I would often pick on her mood before she even had time to process it. When I would hurt her feelings, it would be a dark cloud until I apologized.

My EII bro would constantly poke fun at me with his sharp wit. After awhile, it would wear on me and I would get really upset.

Other than those couple quibbles, I usually get along with EIIs fine. In fact, I could see myself with one if the right one came along.

How many times have I said Fe is about picking emotions out of people

[Dr PissBender]

Tbh I feel ya. I want to kill every IEI I know, and the EIE's I know should make the world a favour and slit their wrists.

[SGF]

The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

But most seem sane and chill.

@tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.

*arf* *arf*

>panting

:">

[Mila]

I had an EII Ne friend with EIE mom and she told me daily how much she hated her. I find interesting that my friend still acting all complacent and nice with her mom 24/7. On the other hand my friend was unhealthy and I think it was due the unhealthy family relations. The father was SLI and the mother EIE, so my friend was basically a child of conflict. Her dad was the only family member she seemed to love or identify with and she hated that her mom scared him away.

[Dr PissBender]

The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

But most seem sane and chill.

@tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.

Both are annoying as fuck. EII's Fi1 and Ti role combined make them annoying as shit. And EIE's, well, anything about EIE's annoy me, two I met had the greatest lack of honor and decency. I repeat, die.

[Beautiful sky]

The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

But most seem sane and chill.

@tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.

As an EII growing up around a multicultural society I think I was seen as one of the most helpful, accepting and kind people around. Even years later my society of friends from that culture have approached me to thank me for being a “guiding “ hand and a friend. I think that reflects the high Humanist in me but I am not the judge on the other hand so I cannot speak for others

[andreasdevig]

The most annoying delta NF people I know can't get off their damn soapboxes. Examples: a vegetarian guilting me for eating meat, drugs are bad, don't cuss around me. We are all going to die because of Trump, google/amazon are evil while unknowingly enjoying the convenience that google/amazon brought.

But most seem sane and chill.

@tuathe: now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types. When I feel like a EII is being too sensitive and too serious, I often feel like I am being judged for my values not meeting their expectations. And then I feel like I am walking on eggshells around the EII.

I had this online 'friend' earlier this year. Not sure what her type was, but she seemed Merry for sure. To be honest, I thought she was smoking hot but unfortunately our personalities clashed quite a bit. I felt she was too harsh, she felt I was too sensitive and negative. I felt she was too merry, she felt I was too serious. I'm an extremely sensitive person and when I brought up my hurt feelings to her, she didn't like it. It made her feel like a bad person, and it gave her anxiety.

[tuathe]

Also, these relationships are supposed to better one on one, not in groups.

thankfully, they did. I've noticed that person is much calmer around me when one on one, as if adjusting to me, which I'm thankful for cause I was afraid it was going to be only me adjusting to them and sacrificing myself, hiding those parts they might not like and pretending to be someone else - but hopefully there's room for compromise and we can be friends

now that I think about, if you don't share similar core values with the EIE: religion, politics, diet, sexuality, there can be a lot of friction between the two types.

yeah, thankfully we've got a bunch of things in common, I'm also open to getting into things they like that are foreign to me and they seem to appreciate it, so

[Bethanyclaire]

thankfully, they did. I've noticed that person is much calmer around me when one on one, as if adjusting to me, which I'm thankful for cause I was afraid it was going to be only me adjusting to them and sacrificing myself, hiding those parts they might not like and pretending to be someone else - but hopefully there's room for compromise and we can be friends

yeah I think if they notice that you are being patient with them they will do it back and vice versa. So much better when both calm (I feel like I can explain myself better and we don’t get wires crossed and say accidentally hurtful
things) and instead have really nice, supportive and interesting chats which make the friendship ultimately an important one. You can achieve a certain level of respect and the friendship feels quite strong- it might not always be super fun and comfy but there will be good times and you’ll both make effort to check in and be caring (sorry so sappy haha)

[EUDAEMONIUM]

I don't know if extinguishment relations are actually the worst in general, maybe for other types it's super-ego, business or conflict relations, but for me, EIEs are worse than SLEs.

EIEs do feel like my complete opposite in a way that they don't value what I do at all despite being good at it. And for me, it is worse for a person to be good at the same things that I am yet reject them as unimportant, than not to value things they're not even good at in the first place (like SLEs or LSIs). Also, with Beta STs, we rarely even meet because we're so different, and when we do meet, it's easy for me to just ignore them if need be, or simply stay on a superficial level and not go deeper. Heck, I actually have an SLE friend and we're doing fine.

But EIEs? Just like any other NF type, it's much easier for me to meet them. And when we do, it's harder for me to run away from the feeling of being judged all the time, for not being... more like them, basically, or more beta-ish in general. For being too sensitive and too serious for their taste, for not enjoying and not participating in their kind of humour, for being a party-pooper, I think that's how they see me, in short.

This is not to say that EIEs are bad as people, or that I resent them, or that I hate them. It is only to say that I think the EII-EIE relations, of any kind, may be much harder in practice than the theory paints them to be (yes, to the point of being equally bad or even worse than conflict relations). Sure, personal maturity plays a huge role, but still.

I wonder, too, is there any EII here with similar thoughts?

I do find this happening with EIIs, where I try to create a certain mood and they are constantly finding issue with the way something was said or the topic that's being discussed. I do try to include them and try to make sure they're comfortable but sometimes I just want to let loose. I definitely feel the push-pull extinguishment relationship with them.

I usually get uncomfortable because I know they are uncomfortable and it ruins my enjoyment of the situation. But when I read your post it made me understand what its like to be on the other side of that.

[Rebelondeck]

These relationships are the best of the worst. At the least, EIEs offer connection for the normally detached EIIs who, in turn, offer the EIEs objectivity; this aspect is a key component of duality. The difficulties with these relationships is that they use the exact same information but their perspectives and processing are opposite; in a sense, they're always attempting to pull on the same oar but can't synchronize and tend to think that the other is responsible for the failure. If there's a formal division of roles and responsibilities that are acceptable to both then they seem to coexist quite amicably.

a.k.a. I/O

EDIT: I meant to say: their perspectives and processing methodologies are opposite;

[tuathe]

I usually get uncomfortable because I know they are uncomfortable and it ruins my enjoyment of the situation. But when I read your post it made me understand what its like to be on the other side of that.

Oh, I didn't know it might work like that. Also, glad to help! lol

[sbbds]

I think some of the more extroverted EIEs are just difficult for a lot of people to deal with except from a huge distance. I find some of them judgy and difficult as well.

It’s really hard to get some ENFx to fuck off and go away even if you tell them directly.

[QueenTiger666]

hope to continue to make ur life a living hell hunty xoxo

[Dr PissBender]

hope to continue to make ur life a living hell hunty xoxo

Not if I have something to say about it.

[QueenTiger666]

Not if I have something to say about it.

le epic white knight

[Dr PissBender]

le epic white knight

Lol, not really. I just don't like bullies. Bullying Se polrs is easy, dude. Get on with someone of your own size.

[QueenTiger666]

Lol, not really. I just don't like bullies. Bullying Se polrs is easy, dude. Get on with someone of your own size.

oop you shady lollll

[Dr PissBender]

oop you shady lollll

You hold the longest grudges, that's shady too.

[QueenTiger666]

You hold the longest grudges, that's shady too.

indeed i do

[Dr PissBender]

indeed i do

At least, you're self-aware. I can respect that.

[flames]

It’s really hard to get some ENFx to fuck off and go away even if you tell them directly.

This made me LOL. Even Spongebob’s (IEE) dual (Squidward, SLI) couldn’t get him to fuck off being direct.

[flames]

At least, you're self-aware. I can respect that.

NFs are always self aware. That’s their greatest gift, actually. They just don’t do anything about it.

[Dr PissBender]

I think some of the more extroverted EIEs are just difficult for a lot of people to deal with except from a huge distance. I find some of them judgy and difficult as well.

It’s really hard to get some ENFx to fuck off and go away even if you tell them directly.

I'll fuck off just because I hate most people, mostly self important retards.

[Dr PissBender]

This made me LOL. Even Spongebob’s (IEE) dual (Squidward, SLI) couldn’t get him to fuck off being direct.

Spongebob is ESE...... he's literally male LMFAO

[flames]

Spongebob is ESE...... he's literally male LMFAO

I thought he was IEE in the first three seasons, then ESE after the movie when they watered down his character~

[raTG13]

Spongebob is ESE...... he's literally male LMFAO

ISFp.

[tuathe]

hope to continue to make ur life a living hell hunty xoxo

lol, let me hug u first

Not if I have something to say about it.

awwww thanks, that's so nice! (though I don't think they were being serious)