SLE/EII Conflictors

[Eliza Thomason]

Today we purchased a used fridge and the couple we bought it from - aged 50s/60s?; seemed a fairly new boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, where they had had at least one prior marriage - helped us wrangle it onto the truck. I figured out their types fast, after we were driving away and I was reflecting on the encounter. I got EII for her right off. And, I think he was SLE! SLE's are very nice and make an effort to be polite and helpful with strangers, while EII's can be stand-offish at a strangers' friendly overtures, concerned with making boundaries with the stranger, relating instead with their "own", like they are demonstrating to whom they belong. So, Conflictors. Hmm.

SLE immediately took over the thinking-through the problems to solve to move and load it, and orchestrated/led the whole undertaking. There were some tricky parts to the operation. EII wanted to be hovering to help her SLE, which on several occasions made SLE rebuff - He'd say her name in a frustrated, sharp, exasperated tone. I tried to keep an attentive wide berth, but at one instance he got a tiny bit sharp with me ("No, don't do that!" when I reached guide something at a particularly tricky part), and then he immediately apologized - and I was right next to him, and saw the look in his eye when he said this, like he was afraid of offending, like maybe he had a history of having to be afraid he would offend women, so I quickly reassured him that was perfectly fine so he could see he hadn't offended.

Afterward I found myself feeling better disposed towards him than her. She hadn't made any effort to return friendliness, she offered only negative comments on what we were doing (we "should have brought help" with us*; we need to wear masks; and at the end, when, after so much effort, we'd gotten it onto the truck, responding to my husband's friendly comment to her with "You are not wearing a mask", when he'd just taken it off at the end, drenched in sweat, and we were OUTSIDE. Though I do understood her as taking the role of defending her man, and placing herself in her role as "with" her man.

*[that comment stung a bit, because we had watched videos on how to move a fridge and load onto a truck, and were prepared to do this ourselves, and I had texted him saying that I hoped he could be an extra pair of eyes for us. And I think the SLE was just doing what came natural to him, taking charge, as apparently he considered himself as the most competent one for the job. His Ti was probably at work while we ere getting there, and he wanted to implement what he'd deemed was the way to do it.]

But I also realized their interactions with us mirrored the interactions of a longtime friend SLE/EII couple I know. The EII is my longtime good friend. He (SLE) is goes out of his way to be personable and helpful with strangers and neighbors (this is all in a mild, kind way, vs. the full, outgoing, engaging social-friendliness of an ESE). SLE easily lends a helping hand, which can annoy EII - to see her SLE go all out for strangers when he can be exasperatingly insensitive to her and her needs. EII, instead, with the same strangers, will be the stand-offish one. It's like she evaluates: "These people are not a part of my life. What do they have to do with me/us and why is he expending all this energy on them?" And she will be a withdrawn observer, and if anyone says or does anything she does not like or she thinks is out of bounds, she will let it be known clearly and bluntly! This is the way my "Positivist" friend is in these situations, and it was just like this with the EII I met today.

It's interesting because Maristsa (EII) and I once noticed that she is a positivist who can being boldly negative, while I am a Negativist who can be extra positive. (That has partly to do with the fact that those dichotomies do not actually mean positive/negative as we think of those traits).

[marooned]

Gah. SLE can take over these things any time. Please do.

[Northstar]

Yeah, EII is the type I consistently have most trouble getting along with. IEE really aren't that bad until it gets too intimate. However, I could see the guy in the story having been a LSE as well. It was basically a display of Te and LSE are more likely to be pushy and apologize.

[Dr PissBender]

Yeah, EII is the type I consistently have most trouble getting along with. IEE really aren't that bad until it gets too intimate. However, I could see the guy in the story having been a LSE as well. It was basically a display of Te and LSE are more likely to be pushy and apologize.

We'd never get that intimate if you don't shave, Northy.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

cool story. reminds me of Adam's writing.

[Sol]

It's interesting because Maristsa (EII)

EIE
in types of other people you may mistake too

> and I once noticed that she is a positivist who can being boldly negative

Reinins traits are baseless

[Adam Strange]

cool story. reminds me of Adam's writing.

Busted! Now I have to admit it. @Eliza Thomason and I are the same person.

[Rebelondeck]

With all other factors equal, superego partnerships are the easiest to start; they tend to find familiar connections coupled with sufficient strange to key each other's interests. EIIs are very perceptive of relationships and would certainly recognize the potential connections that you seem to be describing, which may have been casting a shadow over her new relationship. If you were being a little flirty on top of that, fuel would certainly be added to the EII fire of negativity. Many of the IEEs that I have known would relish situations where they could stir the pot a little to see what comes to the surface.

a.k.a. I/O

[consentingadult]

Many of the IEEs that I have known would relish situations where they could stir the pot a little to see what comes to the surface.

I had a short-lived but very intense relationship with an SLE woman once, and it was remarkable how far I could stir the pot and what came to the surface. But at a certain point the pot boiled over and shit hit the fan. And I couldn't exactly wash my hands in innocence either. Probably both of us learned that certain boundaries have to be respected in life.

[Adam Strange]

I had a short-lived but very intense relationship with an SLE woman once, and it was remarkable how far I could stir the pot and what came to the surface. But at a certain point the pot boiled over and shit hit the fan. And I couldn't exactly wash my hands in innocence either. Probably both of us learned that certain boundaries have to be respected in life.

There is an optimum distance for every type.

For Conflictors, it's about 8 feet. For Duals, it's -6 inches.

[sbbds]

Busted! Now I have to admit it. @Eliza Thomason and I are the same person.

LOOOL

[sbbds]

There is an optimum distance for every type.

For Conflictors, it's about 8 feet. For Duals, it's -6 inches.

MAN EIIs have big cocks!

[Adam Strange]

MAN EIIs have big cocks!

OK, let me restate that so all duals can be included. -1 cm.

[sbbds]

OK, let me restate that so all duals can be included. -1 cm.

Gotta love metric!

[WinnieW]

For Conflictors, it's about 8 feet. For Duals, it's -6 inches.

I have to state:
My proctologist Dr. Finger who does rectal examinations is not my Dual.

[Adam Strange]

I have to state:
My proctologist Dr. Finger who does rectal examinations is not my Dual.

Then he's probably standing too close.

When doctors still thought there was some benefit to it, I had a few exams where the doc shoves a camera on a long tube up your butt and he goes anal exploring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kQDIosuZuo

I've seen a lot of doctors, but I have to say, this guy was one of the weirdest. You know how some guys just seem "off" in a way that you can't quite identify? Sort of like those guys in the movies who seem like they're your regular suburban neighbor and then turn out to be killer clowns in their spare time?

[The Reality Denialist]

The sweet super-ego roast. Both parties do not mind but it gets old.

[Eliza Thomason]

EIE

EII

in types of other people you may mistake too

No. Your lens is skewed due to your own mistyping. Correct that, and everything else will fall into place.

Reinins traits are baseless

When you mistake your own type, Reinins make no sense at all.

[Eliza Thomason]

cool story. reminds me of Adam's writing.

Thanks! It's interesting you said that, because I really like reading Adam's stories and I really respect his accuracy in typing others. Whenever he says, "This person [of this type] did/said ___", I always think that, yes, that person must be that type, because it fits. When Adam tells stories of types he knows, and their interactions with his and other types, I always feel I am gaining new Socionics insights - insights that gel with what I have learned and observed myself. It's also interesting to see things through a LIE's eyes, and see his intertype relations experiences.

Perhaps we take some similar approach. I took to voraciously learning about Socionics, MBTI, astrology, enneagram and other modalities for the same reason/motivation he learned such things, to understand the relationships in my life, particularly the difficult ones.

[Eliza Thomason]

Yeah, EII is the type I consistently have most trouble getting along with. IEE really aren't that bad until it gets too intimate. However, I could see the guy in the story having been a LSE as well. It was basically a display of Te and LSE are more likely to be pushy and apologize.

This is good feedback, as yes, the action I described of the guy is what a LSE would do, taking over such a scene since he knows exactly how to do it right.

Also, yes, LSE can be pushy and a needed apology comes easily from them, whereas I see my SLE son certainly not being a regular apologizer* when he doesn't see he has done anything wrong, or anything worth addressing. But in this case I could feel this SLE hoped he had not offended me with his command, made in a tone that has in the past made some women flinch and retaliate angrily.

But besides really knowing LSEs and not reading anything LSE-like into this person, I can explain that LSE does not fit because it doesn't fit with the relationship-type clues I got. There was not once a hint of peaceful Duality, not in a single one of their interactions. Her frankly unhelpful presence near him was consistently more intrusive than supportive of him. His consistent response to her was to completely avoid or ignore everything she said (unlike in duality, when you hear at least occasional peaceful sounds of agreement/acknowledgment in their interactions). The only exception to his ignoring her was when he got sharp with her because she directly interfered with his path (which kept happening because she was determined to be in her role of "loyal, attentive partner").

_______________________

* Northstar, on the topic of SLE-apologizing I want to share an unrelated story, to you, a SLE, in case you or any other SLE reading this thread have ever been in a Conflictor relationship and had an ugly breakup with an EII, where you may have been falsely accused. If so, I would be interested in hearing your comment or story here.

When my SLE son was very young I taught him the proper way apologize: Three steps (there could be more steps, like asking forgiveness, but I kept it simple, as he was young):

1) State exactly WHAT you did wrong that you are apologizing for
2) State WHY what you did was wrong
3) Say "I'm sorry", and promise to try not to do it again.

So, in college my son was visiting on break with his new-ish EII girlfriend (that I'd optimistically hoped was IEI). For some reason, at table, I mentioned that 3-part apology I'd taught him so long ago. Don't know why, because I think I had never mentioned it to anyone before! They immediately glanced meaningfully at each other, which they both saw I saw, so, my son briefly explained they'd recently had an "incident" and he did apologize that way, and she nodded.

I should have seen that as a clue she was Conflictor, not the Dual I had hoped she was. A year later, I learned that the when their relationship ended there was a massive ugly conflict. I can't help but think a romance between an aggressor and a childlike J-type, particularly a type who is known to see herself, at times, as a victim-martyr, who can really lash out strong when offended, who is your Conflictor - so there is already misreading of each other and the natural growing disrespect of the other. All these things were a poisonous stew for their very bad breakup conflict.

[Eliza Thomason]

With all other factors equal, superego partnerships are the easiest to start; they tend to find familiar connections coupled with sufficient strange to key each other's interests. EIIs are very perceptive of relationships and would certainly recognize the potential connections that you seem to be describing, which may have been casting a shadow over her new relationship. If you were being a little flirty on top of that, fuel would certainly be added to the EII fire of negativity. Many of the IEEs that I have known would relish situations where they could stir the pot a little to see what comes to the surface.

a.k.a. I/O

Interesting comment though I don't understand your reference to Superego relations? Whose relations being Superego?

You didn't ask for my thoughts on flirting, but I will tell them anyway.

First, IEEs, who like to be engaging and interested in people, are sometimes mistaken to be flirting when they are not. In addition, I know I am capable of flirting. I can vividly recall times in the past turning that on in full mode - because I was solely and selfishly seeking my own validation. Which is wrongly messing with a person's affections. So I am not proud to remember it, even though I can still remember the thrill of the discovery of this subtle "game" in my 20s, the delightful elation I felt in my own power. (I never would have used that word at the time, only now much later, in retrospect). I certainly kidded myself at the time that this it was not a game, but just "me being me", enjoying life. I think that there is always an awareness that this is there, asleep, but ready to use, and always must be resisted.

Getting married was the initial impetus to cancel that, as I needed to prove my true loyalty to my Narcissist husband. I remember missing "flirt-mode" a bit when out among others. Later my retrospective regret for the selfishness of my motives means I have tried to not to take that mode, ever again. Well - I suppose I have turned that on for my husband and he likes it. (Though lately I have been far too serious). But I respect other's relationships and desire to support them. I usually, as I did in the above case, try to make sure I take just as enthusiastic an interest in the female half of the pair, to avoid her thinking I am flirting with her man. And if I feel they might be a jealous type, i can turn all my attention to woman until I feel I put them at ease. I think that is an IEE's way of controlling relations in a group, in that she is endeavoring to be sure all the social interactions are a positive thing.

In the above interaction, the man was being kind and friendly in his tone, which I returned, and I tried to be as engagingly friendly with the EII, but she wasn't having it.

(I should add the poor man was really in a sweat and seemed physically affected by the effort, which certainly fueled EII's mode to be her man's protective partner. He may have had health problems in the past, fueling EII's protective ways. And I do understand that many are convinced mask-wearing is the way to save our society from covid, and they feel truly threatened by people who do not wear them.)

[Rebelondeck]

Interesting comment though I don't understand your reference to Superego relations? Whose relations being Superego?
......

You being IEE and the SLE who was trying to help you. I was just commenting on a possible catalyst to the immediate behaviour of the EII; SLEs have been known to have roving eyes.

a.k.a. I/O

[WinnieW]

Then he's probably standing too close.

I was kidding. Did you realise it?