Duals: Love and Hate

[Aramas]

From Wikisocion:

V. Gulenko If duals have united into one pair, tell us, is this a consonant or a dissonant union?

Audience: Dissonant from which point of view?

V. Gulenko From point of view of relations between them. Is it easy for them to merge into one? Is such synthesis easy?

Audience: It's not easy for them to come together, but after it's difficult to separate them ... [inaudible conversation].

V. Gulenko This is right. This means that the nature of dual relations is an antithetic synthesis i.e. synthesis of the opposites that struggle with one another but then unite: this is called unity and conflict of the opposites. This is the formula of what kind of thinking?

Audience: Dialectic thinking.

V. Gulenko This is it, relations between duals are dialectic, they both love and hate each other. This is unavoidable. Dual relations are synthesis of the opposites. This struggle is unavoidable.
Is there any way to get rid of these painful contradictions between duals, in principle?

Audience: Um, may be, perhaps, likely not ...

V. Gulenko In principle it's impossible. It's possible to smooth them out, by correct distribution of roles in dual pair for example, but it's impossible to remove them.

I'm curious to find out how many people have experienced ambivalence towards duals? What Gulenko is describing here sounds like what's often said about semi-dual relationships:

Some leading socionists have quipped relationships of semi-duality "the moth and the flame". The couple is invariably attracted to each other, but repeatedly "burned" by each other. To some onlookers these relations may seem especially passionate and loving.
...
These relations can be compared to getting splashed by cold water after the person has just woken up and gotten out of bed. Comfort levels with such a partner can be very contrasting: happiness of being close on one side and bewilderment and confusion on the other.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I was really bored with my SLE dual that I fell in love with in most day to day situations. Like there was many times I looked at him and my ego would just be like 'You're boring. Go away' or something.

But idk, he seemed to always rescue me when I needed it the most like a bad 90s romance novel/TV show. Magically and emotionally, it's like he always casts Lay on Hands on me in the most perfect right moment when I have .0000001 HP left in the most artistically beautiful way.

And it didn't even seem to be all that romantic or inspiring until after the fact either like I had to be away from it to realize 'wow I really liked that!'

It took being around him for 3 years before these feelings started to develop and I realized just how much I liked him but then kinda.... it was too late. But he still feels like my highest love? (as gay as that sounds sorry lol but I mean, it's the Fi of it)

[Sol]

"they both love and hate each other"
Love and hate feelings are incompatible in their essense. Generally, such decription is used for situations when people have strong attraction (as sexual) and also have a significant opposing (as personal). What fits better to bad IR, but not good IR. Not good IR are not rare (duality, semiduality, activation - mb 20-30%) in romances, as people make them mainly by a sexual attraction but not from a wish for good friendship. Meanwhile friendship feelings make sexual relations more pleasant due to better emotional contact.

"Hate" is least related for duals in close friendship relations about what IR theory is made. Gulenko's is baseless heretic.
Types should be correctly identified, at least, what is not often. Type to close superego/conflictor type and you'll get the hate. Make a long pair of any besides 3 good IR and there will be principally higher personal opposing which will worsen emotions.
It's about the point of Jung types only, - as there can be also other different opposings and obstacles between people.

A difference in types may make harder _the initial_ communication than with closer types as identities. Duals are harder to be understood and tuned to them due to functions difference. Initially they look kiddy. Due to the difference, duals need more efforts for initial adoptation, meanwhile close relations with them can developed to better. Identities may have an easier start and then lower stop of what people may get in relations.
As an example. For T types all F types are perceived as simple and naive in logics, they know lesser and miss good ideas. This annoys and gives a wish to fix the noticed mistakes, to improve something. This may lead to actions which F types will perceive as rude (though they may accept those ideas after a time), where their emotions were not taken enough into account (where T types are not good). Step by step people may teach other to become and behave better in their weak regions. This kind of initial opposing is not stable for duals, unlike with conflictors where people oppose to be changed due to different values, due to wrong methods by which they are tried be influenced. A dual is alike good kid, while conflictor is a bad kid.

Also

In cases when a friendship is not supposed initially (common when there is no initial romance interest) the main interest is a surface cooperation which is easier to do by strong functions. Duals are not good there. To establish a cooperation with them similarly good as with identities may take more time to teach them to your level of understanding and skills.

When exists higher egocetric attitude in a human, to what predisposes liberal propaganda, there is lesser interest and abbility for deep love between people, when they join minds and their lives into a one. In surface pals relations without deep friendship, the good of duality is lesser noticed, while such relations with identities can look easier.

Another hypothetical case.
The _initial_ sympathy to identities and lesser sympathy to duals can be higher at people with homosexual interests. They prefer own sex, so are higher attached to the general similarity. This may also make harder for them to develop good relations with duals. But anyway those relations can be developed to better union, as duals can give more to each other - better emotions, for example. May be for some of them the harder initial relations with duals may achive the degree of terms as "hate".

[Mila]

That's what I've always said when ppl turn to duality expecting it would be a fairly tale effortless relation. Duals are almost opposites.

[Aramas]

That's what I've always said when ppl turn to duality expecting it would be a fairly tale effortless relation. Duals are almost opposites.

Duals are exactly opposites. People who type by intertype relationships are fooling themselves according to this lol. They should be looking at people you seemingly like the least.

[Mila]

Duals are exactly opposites. People who type by intertype relationships are fooling themselves according to this lol. They should be looking at people you seemingly like the least.

No, duals are not exact opposites, that would be conflictor (P vs J). I don't see anything wrong with using IR as a way to check typing, not the only method to find type, though.

I also think its not about like/dislike, it is more about how relationships develop. If in positive or negative outcome. That's the difference between duality and conflicting. In duality relationships love and acceptance should grow, in conflict, problems and disadvantages. I've experienced conflicting, duality and super ego and I can compare how super ego gets awful as it gets closer over time and how , how communication becomes almost impossible, and how good feelings get replaced for growing resentment, disatisfaction and reject. While you can observe that duality goes in opposite direction, grow up from mistrust and difficulties in communication to closeness and acceptance at the point of becoming like one.

In theory, you should feel attracted to both at first, your dual and your conflictor (I'm basing this saying in Strat). Where the danger would be confuse your conflictor by your dual (which would cause them both hurt). Ideally, conflict relationship should not become anything serious and dual should become more interesting.

[The Reality Denialist]

ITR typing like this can be correct just flush your Fi down the toilet first.

[Aramas]

No, duals are not exact opposites, that would be conflictor (P vs J). I don't see anything wrong with using IR as a way to check typing, not the only method to find type, though.

I also think its not about like/dislike, it is more about how relationships develop. If in positive or negative outcome. That's the difference between duality and conflicting. In duality relationships love and acceptance should grow, in conflict, problems and disadvantages. I've experienced conflicting, duality and super ego and I can compare how super ego gets awful as it gets closer over time and how , how communication becomes almost impossible, and how good feelings get replaced for growing resentment, disatisfaction and reject. While you can observe that duality goes in opposite direction, grow up from mistrust and difficulties in communication to closeness and acceptance at the point of becoming like one.

In theory, you should feel attracted to both at first, your dual and your conflictor (I'm basing this saying in Strat). Where the danger would be confuse your conflictor by your dual (which would cause them both hurt). Ideally, conflict relationship should not become anything serious and dual should become more interesting.

Depends on what you mean by exact I guess. My exact was meaning that the ego elements are inverses of each other. I wasn't thinking about mbti letters.

And yes I've found something similar where the negative relationships start out ok and end up sucking and vice versa. It's funny how the good relationships often start out bad, but it is kind of a trope in movies for that kind of thing to happen.

I'm not sure I would say people should be attracted to the conflictor too according to the theory, but maybe it happens.

[Mila]

Depends on what you mean by exact I guess. My exact was meaning that the ego elements are inverses of each other. I wasn't thinking about mbti letters.

And yes I've found something similar where the negative relationships start out ok and end up sucking and vice versa. It's funny how the good relationships often start out bad, but it is kind of a trope in movies for that kind of thing to happen.

I'm not sure I would say people should be attracted to the conflictor too according to the theory, but maybe it happens.

not mbti, I meant socionics basic dichotomies and it goes along with valued IEs (stackings). The exact opposite is conflictor.

Ime, dual relationships don't start out bad. But deep communication doesnt seem the easiest thing to achieve at first and is easy for duals to just turn to page from a situation that you don't understand pretty well. Also as some socionics authors mention, its necessary a long period of time for duals to really match up (mb the same amount time that other relationships would require to see if it really works or not, I guess). Strat says each dual couple have their subconsious psychological "tests" to do to partners to achieve dualization.

[Adam Strange]

No, duals are not exact opposites, that would be conflictor (P vs J). I don't see anything wrong with using IR as a way to check typing, not the only method to find type, though.

I also think its not about like/dislike, it is more about how relationships develop. If in positive or negative outcome. That's the difference between duality and conflicting. In duality relationships love and acceptance should grow, in conflict, problems and disadvantages. I've experienced conflicting, duality and super ego and I can compare how super ego gets awful as it gets closer over time and how , how communication becomes almost impossible, and how good feelings get replaced for growing resentment, disatisfaction and reject. While you can observe that duality goes in opposite direction, grow up from mistrust and difficulties in communication to closeness and acceptance at the point of becoming like one.

In theory, you should feel attracted to both at first, your dual and your conflictor (I'm basing this saying in Strat). Where the danger would be confuse your conflictor by your dual (which would cause them both hurt). Ideally, conflict relationship should not become anything serious and dual should become more interesting.

I completely agree with this.

I am working with a very intelligent LII and every time we talk, we seem to get further apart.

I know an LIE who is married to an LII. He tries to find jobs for her in different states so she will be gone during the week and home only on weekends. But she keeps getting fired and coming back. When they are together, they fight. It's not just disagreements, it's like each of them is fighting to be understood and is not being heard. And neither of them is thinking that the problem is their ITR. They don't believe that ITR's exist.

In the meantime, any good that was ever in that relationship is long gone, and I can see this happening between the LII and me. I think, if the LII and I didn't have to work together, there would be a huge amount of mutual admiration between us. And only admiration.

I'm also working with a super-ego. I'm proactively minimizing my interaction time with him, because who needs another failed relationship?

Fortunately, these are work relationships, and it is considered normal to have very impersonal work relationships, because impersonal is what will extend these relationships the most.

[Rebelondeck]

I can understand hating certain aspects of one's dual. The opposite of love isn't hate; it's being indifferent to one another, which seems uncommon with duals.

a.k.a. I/O

[Mila]

Tommy, well, debating whether duals are exact opposites or almost opposites, is like debating whether pi should being described as 22/7 or 3.14 , although a good choices actually make a constant number which stored all possible details in pi.

In socionics that difference will result in duality or conflict. Go figure.

[xerx]

I've only been with a handful of duals, but I was always just swept into it. Duality is (or could be, in the right circumstances) about the experience of extreme, passionate feelings, when the pair are together. Duality relations aren't necessarily about a shared mindset or a similar approach to life, and they wouldn't necessarily appear to work on paper.

Consider the type of SLE/SEE girl who goes to nightclubs. You'd think that she'd be stereotypically attracted to some alpha-male chad, only to end up happier dating an Otaku. ((:

On the other hand, Socionics may be complete bulls--t.

[Aramas]

The street goes both ways. Thanks for being a boring, unoriginal troll. Putting you on block.

EDIT: I can't see your lunatic rantings.

Didn't mean to mark this as constructive.

[FreelancePoliceman]

I like ESEs from a distance. I don't think I want to marry one. I'd like a partner who can interest me, and ESEs just don't usually do that for me.

Re. semi-duality, I could see myself with an EIE. I've never been in a relationship with one before, but I've known and been friends with a few, and my experience is that I tend to either really like them or really dislike them, and the ones I like I don't have any real problems with -- I don't relate to the "getting burned" description. Maybe it would be different in a relationship.

Or maybe I've got my type wrong. The most common other typing for me is EII, but if either description in the OP is right, that's one type I could rule out: I'm not at all attracted to LIEs; they don't interest me at all, and as for LSEs, I tend to get along with them well: I often like them, and they often seem to like me, but I don't think there's any sort of love-hate dynamic.

[Dr PissBender]

Me and my SLI broke up, coz i'm crazy, go figure. And I met another SLI after that, I didn't like she couldn't let toxic/horrible people go and it made me disgusted. And generally I see SLI's on groups saying shit about my type as we're useless or whatever, yet i've always been way better at everything than any SLI i've ever met and have had to walk sensors through the most basic shit, but okay.

And no, I don't prefer SEI's to SLI's, no fucking way. I see SEI's as lame usually.

Relationships are not my thing at the moment, nor are people. Focusing too much on my carreer and ambition to care atm. Maybe i'll give some useful input here in the future.

Maybe people in general just suck, no matter their type. Human beings are way more complicated yet not as deep as we think they are.

[Adam Strange]

Me and my SLI broke up, coz i'm crazy, go figure. And I met another SLI after that, I didn't like she couldn't let toxic/horrible people go and it made me disgusted. And generally I see SLI's on groups saying shit about my type as we're useless or whatever, yet i've always been way better at everything than any SLI i've ever met and have had to walk sensors through the most basic shit, but okay.

And no, I don't prefer SEI's to SLI's, no fucking way. I see SEI's as lame usually.

Relationships are not my thing at the moment, nor are people. Focusing too much on my carreer and ambition to care atm. Maybe i'll give some useful input here in the future.

Maybe people in general just suck, no matter their type. Human beings are way more complicated yet not as deep as we think they are.

Balance, Dude. Balance.

[Dr PissBender]

Balance, Dude. Balance.

Elaborate.

[Beautiful sky]

Yeah I would say we love and hate each other!

[Beautiful sky]

Ok elaborating...
My husband is a Republican and I am a Humanist liberal left wing not a democrat Tree hugger!
I say I love people and he says he doesn’t
So we have a lot of opposite viewpoints that don’t always meet so graceful and sometimes there’s a crash of opinions on matters. So we argue (he calls it “debating”) it out until we reach a similar conclusion ahahah

[xerx]

TBH, modern people's expectations have grown so extreme, that no relationship is ever going to be perfect. There may not be such a thing until you can purchase an artificially-engineered significant other, built according to specifications that are extracted from the subconscious part of your mind.

Breakups, divorces, etc.. happen with impunity today; for legitimate reasons, absolutely, but also because people have learned to expect the environment to change for them rather than the other way around, oftentimes without even knowing what they want.

[The Reality Denialist]

Me and my SLI broke up, coz i'm crazy, go figure. And I met another SLI after that, I didn't like she couldn't let toxic/horrible people go and it made me disgusted. And generally I see SLI's on groups saying shit about my type as we're useless or whatever, yet i've always been way better at everything than any SLI i've ever met and have had to walk sensors through the most basic shit, but okay.

Are Don Juans supposed to settle? I was watching this one SLI woman being interviewed. She was basically robbed by a lover [not penniless] and she said it was a great business deal in the end and she had lots of fun while it lasted.

OTOH there was this ESI who thought that she was robbed and wanted her money back. Superficial similarities between benefit types but someone got truly busted by a supervisor.

[Dr PissBender]

Are Don Juans supposed to settle? I was watching this one SLI woman being interviewed. She was basically robbed by a lover [not penniless] and she said it was a great business deal in the end and she had lots of fun while it lasted.

OTOH there was this ESI who thought that she was robbed and wanted her money back. Superficial similarities between benefit types but someone got truly busted by a supervisor.

Smart and interesting question. You never fail to intrigue me, Cov.

Honestly, that makes me think a lot. I'm a very adventure-driven man regarding people and sex, I like the variety, but I think an SLI would be capable of holding a Don Juan type still if both duals are mature enough. After all, I don't think i'd like the idea of dying alone, to be fair... but that's me.

I love the Si care, with all that cool Te. I like feeling someone cares for me.

[Mila]

Me and my SLI broke up, coz i'm crazy, go figure. And I met another SLI after that, I didn't like she couldn't let toxic/horrible people go and it made me disgusted. And generally I see SLI's on groups saying shit about my type as we're useless or whatever, yet i've always been way better at everything than any SLI i've ever met and have had to walk sensors through the most basic shit, but okay.

And no, I don't prefer SEI's to SLI's, no fucking way. I see SEI's as lame usually.

Relationships are not my thing at the moment, nor are people. Focusing too much on my carreer and ambition to care atm. Maybe i'll give some useful input here in the future.

Maybe people in general just suck, no matter their type. Human beings are way more complicated yet not as deep as we think they are.

TnT

[Rusal]

Doesn't Strat have the SLI pretty much go unharmed by IEE's don juan qualities? She paints SLIs as borderline commitment-phobic and cruel subjectors of others to psychological tests, even if they don't understand why they do it. And yes, I think she explicitly says the last part.

[Aramas]

Doesn't Strat have the SLI pretty much go unharmed by IEE's don juan qualities? She paints SLIs as borderline commitment-phobic and cruel subjectors of others to psychological tests, even if they don't understand why they do it. And yes, I think she explicitly says the last part.

I've read about SLIs "tormenting the object of their affection" or something like that to receive "greater emotional incandescence."

[Mila]

I'd love to get that quote.

[Minde]

Duals are from opposite clubs. Their interests, what attracts them superficially, are different. I believe this is one reason why it can be so hard for duals to find each other.

Their differing interests coincide with their differing strengths. The value-sharing, I think, it what assists in the drawing together. Then they discover that the other is 1) aiming toward the same things they are and 2) great at handling things they don't like and aren't good at. And, voila, a partnership is born.

However, the differing interests still remain. This can lead to conflict, especially if one or both feel a sense of entitlement or ownership of the other. It seems that it's wise to allow for the differences and give each other space to pursue those in a way that doesn't harm the other. Communication and a secure attachment style help.


For me, Fe and Ni are "unvalued strengths." They are fun for me to play with when I want to relax or break out of routine or have some non-serious fun. I don't want too much, but I do find fulfillment in some amounts of it. Especially the Ni, which is really uncomfortable to an LSE. Same in reverse for the LSE - they "play" using Se. And that's ok. It's a dance that takes a little bit of effort, but the benefits of duality are worth it, imo.

[Mila]

Doesn't Strat have the SLI pretty much go unharmed by IEE's don juan qualities? She paints SLIs as borderline commitment-phobic and cruel subjectors of others to psychological tests, even if they don't understand why they do it. And yes, I think she explicitly says the last part.

Basically Strat says that due the aristocratic sensing of sensations ego program, SLI hates painful, annoying and unpleasant relations, so is likely SLI will avoid that part of relationships or literally run from them to get a more comfortable position through putting physical space between them and others. Then, SLI needs a partner who can create this illusion of freedom, without letting go ppl off completely...which is IEE. The "tests" are set to find your dual or the compatible partner and appear in all relations according her.

[Dr PissBender]

I've read about SLIs "tormenting the object of their affection" or something like that to receive "greater emotional incandescence."

Yeah, she did so much at the start I now am highly paranoid towards people and just act straight out mean in self defense.

[Eliza Thomason]

Duality difficulties I am sharing since I have been married to my Dual six years now. It seems I only share good things about our duality, as I feel happy with us, all the time. But I sometimes think something should bother me - isn't it so with everyone? And all I can come up with is the following annoyance. I wonder if there is a Socionics reason for my sensitivity?

So it has to do with Te kind of talk. Sometimes it surprises me when he seems to need to talk way more than I do. I am the E, so you would think it would be me that needs to talk all the time. But feel that I only like to talk when I have something really important to say. Well, okay, that is subjective of course. For me, important is often something I have realized or learned or just understood. At such times I can talk quite awhile, all at once, for that conversation.* (Just like I can write quite awhile here about the same sort of thing).

Years ago I unexpectedly discovered the joy of silence at a monastery retreat, my first such.. Prior to that I experienced Protestant Christian retreats, that were full of listening to dynamic speakers and much lovely socializing - with activities and events planned to encourage socializing, and I enjoyed the rich fellowship very much, and always looked forward to these. But once I experienced monastic silence, so compelling and freeing, I loved it so much I went on them annually, looking forward to it all year. It made me love - and often thirst - silence. Like no music or television, just silence while I work. But for six years now I have not taken a silent retreat, and I really want my husband to experience this, as maybe he will see why I value it so much, and maybe he would value it then, too, and we could share that. (We finally were going to that this summer, but with covid did not make plans).

So the Te thing is it often seems he needs to talk, and not say anything particular, just to talk. When I am enjoying silence. With teaching I communicate constantly all day, especially with so many classes a day and all young kids. After school I am reflecting on an a very active day and also working hard to organize and do a lot fast so I can get home. At home, I just want to "be", not talk. Also now, I am not teaching, but reflecting a lot on my crazy year and planning for next. I love the freedom of silence, and like in a monastery, a silence that is not alone, but with people, living in silence around you, talking only when necessary and then only what is necessary. We all must talk to communicate sometimes, but you are always respecting the other person's sacred silence. I wonder if I am selfish to want more of that at home. Maybe I am being uncharitable, and maybe I should "work" on this. (I never work on my marriage, and my previous (bad) marriage I worked on, fretted about and adjusted myself to 24/7... so maybe I am taking it too easy now, since it is easy?

The good thing is I am free to say what I want to my dual husband, and I do say, " I just want to be quiet, I like silence", etc. and he understands (as I have explained the above to him before).

As to the Dual relations being hard to start, well there is some truth to that... how we met is we know each other by participating and writing to each other a bit on a forum, then a period of no communicating, then we met at one on a whim when I had traveling near him, and I completely unexpectedly fell for him. Then we resumed writing, with now a need to go somewhere with that huge connection (we lived far apart) and there was so much to figure about for how our lives could work together. For me it was like a big all-consuming puzzle, for months and months, with a lot of things to work out, but we were both compelled down that path so we did the work.

So I wonder if it's type-related that I would be impatient at times, with his need for much Te expression, or just this difference in that I developed a love of monastic silence and he never did?

Another issue There is only one quality of my SLI husband that sometimes annoys me, but its a flaw I accept, just like he accepts mine (for which I don't stop being grateful). He has an inner anxiety that pops up at times, a defensiveness that assumes I am abut to criticize, when I am not. Like he will react strongly defensively just when I start speaking to him (and his voice and manner are always much louder and stronger than mine), and I have nowhere near got my thought out. So now I immediately stop short, and ask him what he thinks I was going to say (which he has already reacted negatively to)? And he will say it and it is NOTHING like what I was going to say, which was nothing anyone would be defensive about. (Then I remind him he has no mind-reading skills at all, so he should give that up!) (I have also said, "So remember this, and know that anxiety comes from somewhere inside YOU").

I have wondered if I have done anything to make him have this inner, anxious, defensiveness, but no, I haven't. I am instead always assuaging it. But I have rooted around for an answer to this mystery and I think I have discovered where it came from. His mom, passed before I met him, was, I am sure, from her pics and descriptions, her choices and her family relations, an ESE, and his Dad probably SLI (also had an inner anxiety) and I am thinking they were both supervised! She was a good woman, a good mom, faithful wife, but probably often exasperated and annoyed these two SLIs who never saw the right way of seeing/doing things, like supervisors often are. So that inner defensiveness is well-programmed from early youth. And I had to figure this out on my own because he never complained about his mom, in anyway. But he would had to have seen his Dad was treated similarly, so it must have just felt to him that this was how he was seen in life.

_____________________

* My husband and I walk regularly down our long street. I guess these walks reflect how I usually am, usually not talking. But one day, there as something I was talking about apparently animatedly all the way up and down the street. So I never would have thought a thing of this, except my neighbor later brought up that day, saying how it so surprised her, because she never heard me talk so much before!

[Dr PissBender]

I don't fucking know what attracts SLI's superficially nor do I even care. I honestly pretty much have always been just myself and do whatever I want. I don't care about who's attracted to my style or not, people suck. Mostly @Adam Strange, fuck that guy, jk, let's fuck, daddy

[Aramas]

I'd love to get that quote.

https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/...INTp/subtypes/

Mistake. It's sexual behavior of Ni-ILI. Old memory was fairly accurate. Lookalike.

[Mila]

https://www.sociotype.com/socionics/...INTp/subtypes/

Mistake. It's sexual behavior of Ni-ILI. Old memory was fairly accurate. Lookalike.

thanks, it was kinda strange to read that Si lead would enjoy "tormenting the object of their affection" or receive "greater emotional incandescence."

On the other hand, Strat says that Ni leads can torment others, having lived with IEI I could agree.

[Aramas]

thanks, it was kinda strange to read that Si lead would enjoy "tormenting the object of their affection" or receive "greater emotional incandescence."

On the other hand, Strat says that Ni leads can torment others, having lived with IEI I could agree.

Having lived around several humans, I can say that most of them like tormenting others. It's often disguised though.

[Mila]

Having lived around several humans, I can say that most of them like tormenting others. It's often disguised though.

yes people are evil.

[Dr PissBender]

yes people are evil.

not u, u are best mom

[Rusal]

thanks, it was kinda strange to read that Si lead would enjoy "tormenting the object of their affection" or receive "greater emotional incandescence."

If I remember correctly, Strat wrote SLIs have a tendency to train their partner with the disappearances and get elated when they are forgiven for their semighosting, since it means their training is yielding results. I thought ‘whoa, what a douche’ at first, but then understood that I do something similar and get the feeling that I’m training people in the way I behave and talk when people question what I consider my freedom.

On the other hand, Strat says that Ni leads can torment others, having lived with IEI I could agree.

Can you expand on this?

[BrainlessSquid]

I like ESEs from a distance. I don't think I want to marry one. I'd like a partner who can interest me, and ESEs just don't usually do that for me.

Re. semi-duality, I could see myself with an EIE. I've never been in a relationship with one before, but I've known and been friends with a few, and my experience is that I tend to either really like them or really dislike them, and the ones I like I don't have any real problems with -- I don't relate to the "getting burned" description. Maybe it would be different in a relationship.

Or maybe I've got my type wrong. The most common other typing for me is EII, but if either description in the OP is right, that's one type I could rule out: I'm not at all attracted to LIEs; they don't interest me at all, and as for LSEs, I tend to get along with them well: I often like them, and they often seem to like me, but I don't think there's any sort of love-hate dynamic.

You seem to value Fi. Your descriptions of ESE makes sense for Mirage in my opinion, but I'm not 100% sure because I don't know you well enough.

[Mila]

If I remember correctly, Strat wrote SLIs have a tendency to train their partner with the disappearances and get elated when they are forgiven for their semighosting, since it means their training is yielding results. I thought ‘whoa, what a douche’ at first, but then understood that I do something similar and get the feeling that I’m training people in the way I behave and talk when people question what I consider my freedom.

It'd be interesting to read the quote.

Can you expand on this?

expand on what, my experience or Strat's?