Short typing video

[grumpyvic81]

Lol, no, I haven't been concerned unless you mean making fun of it? I think an example of the Fi role is when you said in the chatbox that you wouldn't want to admit to a certain score in the narc question. I don't have such inhibitions.

Viktor types SLE and Fi PoLR and does have such inhibitions too (as mine)... So?

And btw you did seem concerned, genuinely wanting to know where you pissed them off

I saw no fun lines being cracked.

Of course you can conflict with most types but with EII I can just immediately tell I probably won't like them. It's visceral.

Like with how many EII have you been able to tell that so far?

I didn't do much consideration, just told them that I quit and did it.

How much did you do of it in your own head I mean. How long did you take before you got the decision after the idea first came up or after you got enough involved with her?

No, the guy I talked about is the LSI-C. The Ti heavy LSI is single and has been so his whole life.

Is he sx at all?


If you don't mind: how much do you rely on checking a person's actual actions and seeing if those match their words?

[Northstar]

Viktor types SLE and Fi PoLR and does have such inhibitions too (as mine)... So?

And btw you did seem concerned, genuinely wanting to know where you pissed them off

I saw no fun lines being cracked.




Like with how many EII have you been able to tell that so far?




How much did you do of it in your own head I mean. How long did you take before you got the decision after the idea first came up or after you got enough involved with her?




Is he sx at all?


If you don't mind: how much do you rely on checking a person's actual actions and seeing if those match their words?

Lol, I don't have an explanation for everything. Maybe I seemed concerned to you but according to your own words you have trouble understanding emotional undertones.

I haven't been with any EII, I can tell before getting close that they piss me off.

It didn't take long, it was a quick decision.

The single guy LSI is probably sp/sx rather than sp/so.

I don't care enough about people to do that sort of checking. People do all sorts of irrational stuff and have their reasons for saying things and doing something else.

[grumpyvic81]

Lol, I don't have an explanation for everything. Maybe I seemed concerned to you but according to your own words you have trouble understanding emotional undertones.

Online without you doing any emotional expression, hell yah I will have trouble reading your attitude and intent. Which is an issue you've admitted to having yourself.


Anyway, here's the Fi role being worse at Fi than Fi PoLR:

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1392133

I don't care enough about people to do that sort of checking. People do all sorts of irrational stuff and have their reasons for saying things and doing something else.

I obviously meant it in a relationship context. I don't assume you are anal enough like that.

[Northstar]

I obviously meant it in a relationship context. I don't assume you are anal enough like that.

I usually try to guess what the reason might be, but plain irrationality in general doesn't bother me much. If they behave disrespectfully, then yes that as an issue that needs to be clarified.

Anyway, I've always seen myself as irrational instead of rational and that's been the result of pretty much every test I've done, socionics or mbti. The energy metabolism and terminating subtype does muddle things on the surface but all the other irrational descriptors fit me better. I change my decisions often and don't suffer from it, I prefer to decide later than sooner to wait and see. I don't have any strong beliefs in any value system or have never been fanatic about anything, rather the opposite. I can't stand fanatics of any kind.
Yes, I can formulate text and opinions pretty well if I want, but I'm already tired of it and bored of this conversation with nitpicking details and responding to every single question or request for examples.

Grumpy, you can be my identical if you want, it doesn't matter to me what type you pick for yourself in a "system". I don't conform to systems anyway, I just take things that work for me and don't take this stuff so seriously.

I had to fix my dishwasher today since it started throwing an error code for a blocked drain pump. Instead of consulting instructions, I just started tearing it apart with a screwdriver. Loosened the pump holder which made some remaining water (didn't think in advance of draining that) splash down inside the machine and trigger the water leak detection error. Managed to unstuck the pump impeller, then had to dismantle the lower part of the machine to drain the water inside. A lot of unnecessary work, but I didn't have the patience for instructions and just tore right into it impulsively. Almost went and bought a new machine too, but fortunately found a youtube video of a SLI explaining patiently how to do it properly, using a sponge to drain the water and protecting your hands with gloves (cut up my fingers on the sharp edges but at least my bleeding stops quickly. what types did this correlate with in Talanov's statistics, have to check lol. I remember it was in there).

Anyway, this is extremely typical of my way of doing things, instead of taking it calmly and methodically and reading instructions first. I just tear right into it, causing a bunch of unnecessary damage and extra work since I can't contain my energy and impulse to do something. The inverse is also true, I can ignore chores and tasks for a long time if I just don't feel like doing them. Then when the mood strikes, I'll do it with feverish pace. After the work is done, I just leave stuff lying where I last used it.

[grumpyvic81]

@Northstar

I don't like your exaggerated claims on what I do. If you feel uncomfortable about contradictions I pointed out, then just say that. But there'll be contradictions. Socionics is a rabbithole when you go as deep as you seem to be doing it. With the "nitpicking", I was mostly mocking that about socionics and my SLE typing in my profile is there for the same reason.

And no offense but you do seem to be a fanatic about believing in Socionics and trying to use it to explain everything without ever checking if it really does make sense in real life. Like this Talanov statistics too... And the belief in Elon Musk's stuff was pretty much fanatic too as you couldn't stay rational meeting disagreement/skepticism about Musk's vision. That's pretty much what fanaticism is. Again, no offense, no harm meant, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

You also seem to be picking up a value system from Socionics, and that is what others noted in your type thread with your seeming unnatural to them. I personally don't mind, I just think it doesn't lead to any good place in the long term.

If you wanna anymore socionics here tho, I doubt SLE would need to take advice from SLI as they have high enough Ne and Te. Like they have enough lateral thinking and flexible logic on their own without needing help from SLI. This is the same pattern as with you getting easily frustrated and angry when tinkering with stuff where SLI remains unbothered. It's the rational expectations (or maybe Ni HAish too & Ne PoLR definitely) getting constantly frustrated. Then you know what I said about other negative emotions being pulled into it.

I don't think I can sum things up any better than this. Good luck.

[Northstar]

@Northstar

I don't like your exaggerated claims on what I do. If you feel uncomfortable about contradictions I pointed out, then just say that. But there'll be contradictions. Socionics is a rabbithole when you go as deep as you seem to be doing it. With the "nitpicking", I was mostly mocking that about socionics and my SLE typing in my profile is there for the same reason.

And no offense but you do seem to be a fanatic about believing in Socionics and trying to use it to explain everything without ever checking if it really does make sense in real life. Like this Talanov statistics too... And the belief in Elon Musk's stuff was pretty much fanatic too as you couldn't stay rational meeting disagreement/skepticism about Musk's vision. That's pretty much what fanaticism is. Again, no offense, no harm meant, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

You also seem to be picking up a value system from Socionics, and that is what others noted in your type thread with your seeming unnatural to them. I personally don't mind, I just think it doesn't lead to any good place in the long term.

If you wanna anymore socionics here tho, I doubt SLE would need to take advice from SLI as they have high enough Ne and Te. Like they have enough lateral thinking and flexible logic on their own without needing help from SLI. This is the same pattern as with you getting easily frustrated and angry when tinkering with stuff where SLI remains unbothered. It's the rational expectations (or maybe Ni HAish too & Ne PoLR definitely) getting constantly frustrated. Then you know what I said about other negative emotions being pulled into it.

I don't think I can sum things up any better than this. Good luck.

Allright, my point was that I'm okay with contradictions. Nobody will fit a type profile 100%, there will always be exceptions but best-fit is what matters. I get what you mean, it's okay.

I've been saying all along that I don't take this stuff too seriously, it's fun and gives some useful insights into things people do that sometimes fit well. But it should not be trusted blindly, no. The Talanov thing was a joke and my poke about your typing is just what I do in debates, nothing to be taken personally.

Everyone can take instructions from a how-to video independent of type. Think of it as ST giving tips to another ST based on experience. That's about the maximum extent of Socionics you should read into that, if that. My introvert ST friends are just more methodical and "take five" before starting to do something, that's all. I often work with a LSE and despite being rational he does the same sometimes as I do, tearing into something before thinking it through enough because of the preference to first interact with the environment instead of first going in your head to think about it.

[grumpyvic81]

Allright, my point was that I'm okay with contradictions. Nobody will fit a type profile 100%, there will always be exceptions but best-fit is what matters. I get what you mean, it's okay.

I've been saying all along that I don't take this stuff too seriously, it's fun and gives some useful insights into things people do that sometimes fit well. But it should not be trusted blindly, no. The Talanov thing was a joke and my poke about your typing is just what I do in debates, nothing to be taken personally.

Ok cool, you just sound definite and categorical when you make the declarations about socionics stuff (prob I do too).

Everyone can take instructions from a how-to video independent of type. Think of it as ST giving tips to another ST based on experience. That's about the maximum extent of Socionics you should read into that, if that. My introvert ST friends are just more methodical and "take five" before starting to do something, that's all. I often work with a LSE and despite being rational he does the same sometimes as I do, tearing into something before thinking it through enough because of the preference to first interact with the environment instead of first going in your head to think about it.

Hm ok. For what it's worth, I'm not capable of thinking it through at all before I start to do something. I have to get moving first to be able to. Are you like that too then yeah? I get methodical after a while esp if I want to avoid the continued frustration lol. But I don't always get methodical in a detailed way or anything. Working out the method is not done very consciously either for the most part. So anyway what you are saying about the "preference to first interact with the environment instead of first going in your head to think about it" is very me too, I just thought it was Sensing rather than Intuition tho. Also when the situation gets complex enough, like there's a lot of things where you can't really immediately see everything or I'm aware that there's organisation and structure that I'm going to have to work with, then I'll first observe before doing much. Do you relate to that?

[Northstar]

Ok cool, you just sound definite and categorical when you make the declarations about socionics stuff (prob I do too).




Hm ok. For what it's worth, I'm not capable of thinking it through at all before I start to do something. I have to get moving first to be able to. Are you like that too then yeah? I get methodical after a while esp if I want to avoid the continued frustration lol. But I don't always get methodical in a detailed way or anything. Working out the method is not done very consciously either for the most part. So anyway what you are saying about the "preference to first interact with the environment instead of first going in your head to think about it" is very me too, I just thought it was Sensing rather than Intuition tho. Also when the situation gets complex enough, like there's a lot of things where you can't really immediately see everything or I'm aware that there's organisation and structure that I'm going to have to work with, then I'll first observe before doing much. Do you relate to that?

Being definite and declaring in output isn't restricted to just one type. You could call it Reining Declaring if you think the dichotomies are useful.

I'm pretty bad at being methodical overall, I just do it somehow and arrive at a satisfactory result. The result is always the main thing, I don't care how it's done. I tell the people who work for me what I want as results and let them figure out how to solve it. It doesn't matter to me how it was done as long as it works. I read books by jumping to interesting parts first (if I start to wonder what happens to a character in a work of fiction I might jump forward just to check it), but often have to return to read stuff I skipped since it's hard to concentrate enough to follow something from start to finish in order. I get an impulse to skip forward always.
If I get bored of some sub-task then I just start working on another and hope my motivation returns while working on something else.

I don't really let hierarchies affect me enough to limit my activities even if I try to keep tabs on the relative positions of people (informal and formal). I just do what I'd do anyway. I automatically find out who I can order around and make them a part of my "team", being friendly to them and defending them against others while they follow my lead. That's how I've taken control of people that actually aren't below me in the formal hierarchy, but who don't mind someone telling them what to do and how to prioritize tasks. I don't do it rudely, but simply telling people what they are to do like it's already been decided and like I'm fully within my rights even if by the book I wouldn't be. This is just analysis of things I've done in practice, I don't actually plan these things consciously in my head, they just happen naturally.

[grumpyvic81]

Being definite and declaring in output isn't restricted to just one type. You could call it Reining Declaring if you think the dichotomies are useful.

Ah I wasn't referring to typing there actually. Just referring back to my post before that one where I made observations. I.e. that the definite declaring of conclusions is what sounds like taking it all seriously. But like I said I do the definiteness too lol in many things, and I saw you do it with other things too, not just Socionics. I just dislike Socionics rabbitholes was my main point.

I'm pretty bad at being methodical overall, I just do it somehow and arrive at a satisfactory result. The result is always the main thing, I don't care how it's done. I tell the people who work for me what I want as results and let them figure out how to solve it. It doesn't matter to me how it was done as long as it works. I read books by jumping to interesting parts first (if I start to wonder what happens to a character in a work of fiction I might jump forward just to check it), but often have to return to read stuff I skipped since it's hard to concentrate enough to follow something from start to finish in order. I get an impulse to skip forward always.
If I get bored of some sub-task then I just start working on another and hope my motivation returns while working on something else.

I also don't care how people do things like that, I just meant that getting methodical sometimes helps avoid frustration and rage lol. Like the ones you mentioned before.

Lol interesting how you say that you have that compulsion to read the stuff you skipped. And how you said it's hard to concentrate to go from start to finish in order. I mean how often do you get to feel that way and how long? Bc I noticed I can feel that way for a short time but it feels like it's worse than it actually is. I really trained myself as a kid to concentrate well in that way. It's like hidden ADHD, lol, but it's also totally controlled in this way. But it does get to feel compulsive in the way you describe it. I don't know why.

BTW where you would link it to HP cognition is how HP is supposed to be able to read things in random order to put them together yeah? For myself I noticed that that way of doing things can be really easy on my mind sometimes, like it turns off the deductive logic thing and gives it rest or whatever. It feels like I get to understand things then without having to do the logical processing. ... But then I have the compulsion too to do the logic too so I often try to do that too.

So would you say you do the impulsive stuff in balance with your logic in this way? To me it's almost like I have the two brain halves that I switch between like that. Like having strong "Ti" and strong "Se" too and I can go to either one.

(I put Ti and Se in quotes there bc I feel this thing goes beyond socionics)

I don't really let hierarchies affect me enough to limit my activities even if I try to keep tabs on the relative positions of people (informal and formal). I just do what I'd do anyway. I automatically find out who I can order around and make them a part of my "team", being friendly to them and defending them against others while they follow my lead. That's how I've taken control of people that actually aren't below me in the formal hierarchy, but who don't mind someone telling them what to do and how to prioritize tasks. I don't do it rudely, but simply telling people what they are to do like it's already been decided and like I'm fully within my rights even if by the book I wouldn't be. This is just analysis of things I've done in practice, I don't actually plan these things consciously in my head, they just happen naturally.

Yeah all that seems pretty normal to me like I wouldn't even socionify it, bc it's such a normal part of life to have interactions and influence people like that. Maybe not everyone cares to do it like that, but I still see it as a normal and big part of life.

[Northstar]

Ah I wasn't referring to typing there actually. Just referring back to my post before that one where I made observations. I.e. that the definite declaring of conclusions is what sounds like taking it all seriously. But like I said I do the definiteness too lol in many things, and I saw you do it with other things too, not just Socionics. I just dislike Socionics rabbitholes was my main point.

I also don't care how people do things like that, I just meant that getting methodical sometimes helps avoid frustration and rage lol. Like the ones you mentioned before.

Lol interesting how you say that you have that compulsion to read the stuff you skipped. And how you said it's hard to concentrate to go from start to finish in order. I mean how often do you get to feel that way and how long? Bc I noticed I can feel that way for a short time but it feels like it's worse than it actually is. I really trained myself as a kid to concentrate well in that way. It's like hidden ADHD, lol, but it's also totally controlled in this way. But it does get to feel compulsive in the way you describe it. I don't know why.

BTW where you would link it to HP cognition is how HP is supposed to be able to read things in random order to put them together yeah? For myself I noticed that that way of doing things can be really easy on my mind sometimes, like it turns off the deductive logic thing and gives it rest or whatever. It feels like I get to understand things then without having to do the logical processing. ... But then I have the compulsion too to do the logic too so I often try to do that too.

So would you say you do the impulsive stuff in balance with your logic in this way? To me it's almost like I have the two brain halves that I switch between like that. Like having strong "Ti" and strong "Se" too and I can go to either one.

(I put Ti and Se in quotes there bc I feel this thing goes beyond socionics)

I just talk in a declaring way always, independent of how serious I actually am about something.

You misunderstood the reading thing, I don't have a compulsion to go back to something. I mean I have to go back for practical reasons since there's something I missed in the part I skipped that I need to look up later when I run into it. Typically this is when reading instructions. I'm just often really impatient and can't help jumping forward and rushing through experiences. I wouldn't medicalize it in any way, it's just a feature of personality. I can concentrate and focus very intently when I want, but even then it's working fast, making and correcting mistakes on the fly instead of doing it calmly and methodically to avoid mistakes in the first place.

[Sol]

@Beautiful sky
should be your dual. to find her lesser annoying

for IEIs you'll be too quite and restrained, in general. also too attached to rules and plans
the 1st will be for you in them too. plus they'll be perceived as lesser stable than you'd prefer

you have J type with high possibility. @voider is SLE here. compare talking styles. the lack of comparable structure in her messages. J types more think before acting so messages are better made. not such a flow of thoughts what P types make

[Northstar]

The thing is, I often don’t think before acting which causes issues. Yeah I’m good at writing coherent and well-formatted messages. Shouldn’t read too much into it tbh. I absolutely hate rules, and especially rulemongers. I don’t do planning either but I’m fine with someone coming up with them. I don’t like to make commitments and promises though, instead I prefer to leave my options open until the last minute. That’s just how it is, and has always been.

Funny you should mention @voider since we’ve both noticed in the chatbox that we have a lot in common in how we perceive and interact with the world. I get strong kindred vibes.

[grumpyvic81]

I just talk in a declaring way always, independent of how serious I actually am about something.

You misunderstood the reading thing, I don't have a compulsion to go back to something. I mean I have to go back for practical reasons since there's something I missed in the part I skipped that I need to look up later when I run into it. Typically this is when reading instructions. I'm just often really impatient and can't help jumping forward and rushing through experiences. I wouldn't medicalize it in any way, it's just a feature of personality. I can concentrate and focus very intently when I want, but even then it's working fast, making and correcting mistakes on the fly instead of doing it calmly and methodically to avoid mistakes in the first place.

I wasn't medicalising anything, to be clear. I didn't call it actual ADHD either for me or for you. What you say overall seems like you are "SLEish" without the Fe HA part pretty much. Like with this ability to click off emotions entirely. I interpreted LSI-Se to be like this, but you are saying your LSI-Se friend doesn't do these things? (Ignore the socialising part because since he has a family to take care of, he will naturally have a different attitude.)

Edit: Also, would you say you can get as impulsive as jumping at people in blind rage without checking if they did do wrong enough for that? Or do you only do that in response to direct provocation?

[grumpyvic81]

Yes. Extrovert confirmed. That's why I type as EIE over IEI because I tend to speak/do things before thinking things through. There's a natural impatience within me.

This is the same way I am. So if this is extraversion, I'll keep SLE in my profile.

Edit: I can be patient in certain complex non-immediate situations where I have to get my bearings first. But yeah otherwise this fits. In those complex situations it feels like I have to get more introverted, sure. This probably does fit ambiverts either way... the question is how much it fits ambiverted introverts vs actual extraverts. But doubt there is an actual answer to that. This is going beyond the model's capabilities.

@Beautiful sky
should be your dual. to find her lesser annoying

for IEIs you'll be too quite and restrained, in general. also too attached to rules and plans
the 1st will be for you in them too. plus they'll be perceived as lesser stable than you'd prefer

you have J type with high possibility. @voider is SLE here. compare talking styles. the lack of comparable structure in her messages. J types more think before acting so messages are better made. not such a flow of thoughts what P types make

I doubt Beautiful sky is an EIE though...

I agree on flow of thoughts, as OP has strong logical reasoning skills and ability to emotionally detach for that either way, regardless of whether that is Ti lead or whatever.

[Northstar]

I wasn't medicalising anything, to be clear. I didn't call it actual ADHD either for me or for you. What you say overall seems like you are "SLEish" without the Fe HA part pretty much. Like with this ability to click off emotions entirely. I interpreted LSI-Se to be like this, but you are saying your LSI-Se friend doesn't do these things? (Ignore the socialising part because since he has a family to take care of, he will naturally have a different attitude.)

I dunno why you say there isn't any Fe HA. I don't like to talk about my feelings but I don't know what you mean with clicking them off. It isn't a switch, I'm just poorly aware of them and what they mean. I can't get inside his head to know if he "clicks off" emotions or not. But I can see the role Fi in him sometimes in the way he can be surprisingly emotional for short periods seemingly without it being embarrasing to him. Like posting a sappy song to his wife on his fb page or spewing angry vitriol (uncreative personal insults stemming from pure hate) at someone with a red face. I don't do that, I joke around without caring if I offend someone and try to make a fool out of my opponents instead of shouting feelings at them. I can get angry enough to fight, but even then I really can't summon any "righeous hate" at a person, it'll be wordless at that point and just trying to hurt them effectively.

[grumpyvic81]

I dunno why you say there isn't any Fe HA. I don't like to talk about my feelings but I don't know what you mean with clicking them off. It isn't a switch, I'm just poorly aware of them and what they mean. I can't get inside his head to know if he "clicks off" emotions or not. But I can see the role Fi in him sometimes in the way he can be surprisingly emotional for short periods seemingly without it being embarrasing to him. Like posting a sappy song to his wife on his fb page or spewing angry vitriol (uncreative personal insults stemming from pure hate) at someone with a red face. I don't do that, I joke around without caring if I offend someone and try to make a fool out of my opponents instead of shouting feelings at them. I can get angry enough to fight, but even then I really can't summon any "righeous hate" at a person, it'll be wordless at that point and just trying to hurt them effectively.

xLEs are more emotional is what I mean and they don't detach so fully or be as unconditionally mirroring others. The detaching to do logic is what I meant by clicking the emotions off. I recognise it when you do it as I'm the same way.

You said your emotional reactions are short too, re: LSI-Se getting emotional for short periods.

Apparently some of the SLEs on this site can shout emotionally at others and spew angry hateful vitriol with uncreative personal insults exactly like that.

I also can't do the hate thing btw. It would be too draining emotionally so I don't bother.

Anyway I think a lot of it is individual differences. This model is not powerful enough to accommodate all of them with an actually sensible explanation


Oh and what I was originally asking about was whether your LSI-Se friend does these impulsiveish things or working fast: "typically this is when reading instructions. I'm just often really impatient and can't help jumping forward and rushing through experiences. I wouldn't medicalize it in any way, it's just a feature of personality. I can concentrate and focus very intently when I want, but even then it's working fast, making and correcting mistakes on the fly instead of doing it calmly and methodically to avoid mistakes in the first place".

[Northstar]

Oh and what I was originally asking about was whether your LSI-Se friend does these impulsiveish things or working fast: "typically this is when reading instructions. I'm just often really impatient and can't help jumping forward and rushing through experiences. I wouldn't medicalize it in any way, it's just a feature of personality. I can concentrate and focus very intently when I want, but even then it's working fast, making and correcting mistakes on the fly instead of doing it calmly and methodically to avoid mistakes in the first place".

No, he's more planning with his actions and does things methodically. It's actually a good analogy that he enjoys the process itself. I just try to rush to the result as fast as possible.

[grumpyvic81]

No, he's more planning with his actions and does things methodically. It's actually a good analogy that he enjoys the process itself. I just try to rush to the result as fast as possible.

Hm ok. If you had a summary of the fundamental differences between you and him, I'd be interested.


ps. Hm, yeah, I don't *enjoy* doing things methodically. I just do that with some repetitive tasks to avoid getting frustrated but I still try to get to the end as fast as I can

[Beautiful sky]

@Beautiful sky
should be your dual. to find her lesser annoying

for IEIs you'll be too quite and restrained, in general. also too attached to rules and plans
the 1st will be for you in them too. plus they'll be perceived as lesser stable than you'd prefer

you have J type with high possibility. @voider is SLE here. compare talking styles. the lack of comparable structure in her messages. J types more think before acting so messages are better made. not such a flow of thoughts what P types make

For God’s sake stop typing people.

[Beautiful sky]

I dunno why you say there isn't any Fe HA. I don't like to talk about my feelings but I don't know what you mean with clicking them off. It isn't a switch, I'm just poorly aware of them and what they mean. I can't get inside his head to know if he "clicks off" emotions or not. But I can see the role Fi in him sometimes in the way he can be surprisingly emotional for short periods seemingly without it being embarrasing to him. Like posting a sappy song to his wife on his fb page or spewing angry vitriol (uncreative personal insults stemming from pure hate) at someone with a red face. I don't do that, I joke around without caring if I offend someone and try to make a fool out of my opponents instead of shouting feelings at them. I can get angry enough to fight, but even then I really can't summon any "righeous hate" at a person, it'll be wordless at that point and just trying to hurt them effectively.

What do others emotions do to you?
Do you need someone to help you make sense of others (like coworkers’s motivations and actions?

Do you want this?
"The Commander tends to doubt not only the good attitude of others towards him, but also noble motives of others. He rather notices people’s negative traits more than positive ones. Sometimes he is excessively suspicious, afraid of treason, and for this reason tends to surround himself by favorites whom he trusts. The Lyricist neutralizes The Commander's prejudice by his trustful and kind manner of communication, neutralizing his suspicions by assertions of his loyalty."

[Northstar]

What do others emotions do to you?
Do you need someone to help you make sense of others (like coworkers’s motivations and actions?

Do you want this?
"The Commander tends to doubt not only the good attitude of others towards him, but also noble motives of others. He rather notices people’s negative traits more than positive ones. Sometimes he is excessively suspicious, afraid of treason, and for this reason tends to surround himself by favorites whom he trusts. The Lyricist neutralizes The Commander's prejudice by his trustful and kind manner of communication, neutralizing his suspicions by assertions of his loyalty."

I like unambiguous displays of positive emotion, optimistic can-do attitude and enthusiasm, preferably accompanied by actually doing something about it. That makes me feel good. People getting angry and ranting often initially amuse me instead of infecting me with it, I can't take excessive negativity seriously and don't engage in it much. I don't like complaining and negativity in general though, habitual critics and whiners annoy me and make me want to kick them out of the company for ruining the mood. They can shut up if they don't have anything positive to say.

Yeah, the problem in my relationships tends to be that I automatically distrust anyone liking me and every little signal is interpreted in the worst possible way. I need someone that constantly reassures me of their good feelings and is kind, otherwise my interpretation of our relationship very fast goes downhill.
I couldn't understand why someone could claim that they loved me when to me it didn't seem like that at all, due to them not showing it constantly like others before had done. After getting into Socionics I learned that the difference here was between Fi creative (I don't get it) and Fe creative (I like it a lot). I did have a short relationship with a Fe lead (ESE) but ended it because I got tired of the mood swings, bossiness and lack of respect.

[timber]

Look over all I'm still saying SLI or LSE with emphasized Te.

[Northstar]

Look over all I'm still saying SLI or LSE with emphasized Te.

So why won't I dualize with IEE or EII then? My relations with them are the opposite of that. Nah, Fi just makes me very uncomfortable.

[voider]

So why won't I dualize with IEE or EII then? My relations with them are the opposite of that. Nah, Fi just makes me very uncomfortable.

If you've talked about this somewhere else feel free to link me to it, but how/why does Fi make you uncomfortable? What in particular?

[Beautiful sky]

I like unambiguous displays of positive emotion, optimistic can-do attitude and enthusiasm, preferably accompanied by actually doing something about it. That makes me feel good. People getting angry and ranting often initially amuse me instead of infecting me with it, I can't take excessive negativity seriously and don't engage in it much. I don't like complaining and negativity in general though, habitual critics and whiners annoy me and make me want to kick them out of the company for ruining the mood. They can shut up if they don't have anything positive to say.

Yeah, the problem in my relationships tends to be that I automatically distrust anyone liking me and every little signal is interpreted in the worst possible way. I need someone that constantly reassures me of their good feelings and is kind, otherwise my interpretation of our relationship very fast goes downhill.
I couldn't understand why someone could claim that they loved me when to me it didn't seem like that at all, due to them not showing it constantly like others before had done. After getting into Socionics I learned that the difference here was between Fi creative (I don't get it) and Fe creative (I like it a lot). I did have a short relationship with a Fe lead (ESE) but ended it because I got tired of the mood swings, bossiness and lack of respect.

@Sol
Do you have your answer now because I damned well do

[Beautiful sky]

So why won't I dualize with IEE or EII then? My relations with them are the opposite of that. Nah, Fi just makes me very uncomfortable.

I’m a moral ranting person and can kill a positive mood with my moralistic attitude. I don’t mean to but I must pass down my moral attitude. It doesn’t bother my ESTj husband because he says what I say is often what he thinks of. I do kill positive moods with my sober attitude and don’t always lavish people with how I feel about them. To me if you’re in the room with me then you mean something to me. Correction-I say “I love you “ a million times a day

[Northstar]

If you've talked about this somewhere else feel free to link me to it, but how/why does Fi make you uncomfortable? What in particular?

I'm uncomfortable about establishing and evaluating the level of relations with other people. It sets off all alarm bells if someone tries to actively befriend me and I usually expect them to have a hidden agenda in that case (what do they want from me, it's time to be careful with this guy). This is more in real life, though, on the Internet the stakes are too low to get too paranoid. I'm often second guessing how people feel about me and can't seem to come to conclusions unless they display it extremely clearly and keep doing it.

I often prefer relations to be businesslike, so that it's always clear what I'm getting out of it and what I need to provide to them in return. If someone provides me a service for free I feel awkward and put at a disadvantage because I don't want them to expect something from me in return in the future. I don't mind doing such acts of service myself, because then I feel like I'm at an advantage and that it might come in useful sometime. Someone addressing me by name typically smells like an attempt at manipulation and makes me uncomfortable and suspicious.

It's also fine to enjoy doing things together, joke around and have good surface-level relations, so that nothing is expected from the other and neither tries to get too close to the other, starting to inquire about personal life, values and stuff like that. I never do that, I'm just not interested about the personal lives of other people.

I can't stand political correctness and sensitive feelings. I think people need to have thicker skins and just deal with it instead of getting upset. It's even worse when people get hurt on someone else's behalf, that's the most ridiculous thing I can think of. I don't want to restrict my blunt output to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Fi leads often seem judgemental and I don't like it.

A typical problem with a Fi user that I've had is that I say something off-handedly or as a joke that wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but they take it as such and get wound up. Then I say that I didn't mean it that way and it was just a joke, but their response is along the lines of "You don't get to decide how it comes across to me. You hurt me, now I have the right to be angry at you". This is just something I can't deal with in close relationships, it's like walking in a minefield and I set them off constantly. I can just ignore such insults/attacks and especially if they clarify that it wasn't meant that way then it will be fine by me and doesn't need to be dissected further.

@voider, I'd just like to add as a clarification that I'm not suspicious about you personally. SEE seem straightforward to me in a good way. This is again an example of how I feel about Fi, I either don't give a shit about feelings at all, or if I do like someone then I'm afraid of accidentally saying something that will offend them when that wasn't my intention.

[Northstar]

I’m a moral ranting person and can kill a positive mood with my moralistic attitude. I don’t mean to but I must pass down my moral attitude. It doesn’t bother my ESTj husband because he says what I say is often what he thinks of. I do kill positive moods with my sober attitude and don’t always lavish people with how I feel about them. To me if you’re in the room with me then you mean something to me. Correction-I say “I love you “ a million times a day

One of the things I associate with Fi and what rubs me the wrong way is how putting your nose in someone else's business and criticizing their behavior means that you care about them. To me, it's invasive and infuriating.
I was once watching a movie with an IEE and commented on the behavior of one of the characters along the lines of "I'd throw that guy out in a nanosecond, that's none of his business", to which her strongly disagreeing reply was "That just shows how much he cares!"

[Sol]

@Beautiful sky
don't thank
he's all yours

kiss each other

[voider]

Thank you @Northstar, that was very insightful! I am the opposite of that last paragraph. To me it's often very clear what will offend whom and although I sometimes say things that hurt/offend people, for the most part it's not out of not knowing it would've hurt them, rather out of a conscious or unconscious (read: impulsive) decision to hurt them. Of course, this isn't foolproof, and I'll apologize/amend my actions if it was fully unintentional, but even then I feel like I know what I should do to fix it. If someone says or does something that hurts me and I'm close to that person, it feels like a personal attack to me because to my understanding they should have known beforehand those words/actions would hurt me. Fi polr is clearer to me now, definitely.

I feel like SEEs are definitely straightforward while still carrying some level of "Fi indignation". The reason you might find it easier to communicate with them is probably because, at least in my experience, I'd rather lay the cards out on the table ASAP so we can know where we're at and what I can actually do in terms of the relationship rather than play guessing games about boundaries. Se impatience, lol.

[Beautiful sky]

@Beautiful sky
don't thank
he's all yours

kiss each other

I’m married! Or did you forget that small fact.

[Northstar]

Thank you @Northstar, that was very insightful! I am the opposite of that last paragraph. To me it's often very clear what will offend whom and although I sometimes say things that hurt/offend people, for the most part it's not out of not knowing it would've hurt them, rather out of a conscious or unconscious (read: impulsive) decision to hurt them. Of course, this isn't foolproof, and I'll apologize/amend my actions if it was fully unintentional, but even then I feel like I know what I should do to fix it. If someone says or does something that hurts me and I'm close to that person, it feels like a personal attack to me because to my understanding they should have known beforehand those words/actions would hurt me. Fi polr is clearer to me now, definitely.

I feel like SEEs are definitely straightforward while still carrying some level of "Fi indignation". The reason you might find it easier to communicate with them is probably because, at least in my experience, I'd rather lay the cards out on the table ASAP so we can know where we're at and what I can actually do in terms of the relationship rather than play guessing games about boundaries. Se impatience, lol.

This was useful for me too, and exactly what I mean with the straightforwardness I enjoy. And yes, I often don't even realize that I hurt someone with a remark until after they show a visceral reaction to it, and then judge me for my inability to consider their feelings. It just doesn't register to me in advance if I'm not being extremely careful and calculating about what I say. That gets exhausting quickly and isn't a stable indicator of whether I care about the person or not.

[Beautiful sky]

This was useful for me too, and exactly what I mean with the straightforwardness I enjoy. And yes, I often don't even realize that I hurt someone with a remark until after they show a visceral reaction to it, and then judge me for my inability to consider their feelings. It just doesn't register to me in advance if I'm not being extremely careful and calculating about what I say. That gets exhausting quickly and isn't a stable indicator of whether I care about the person or not.

The same for LSE. They only notice after they’ve exploded and same with SLE

[Beautiful sky]

I'm uncomfortable about establishing and evaluating the level of relations with other people. It sets off all alarm bells if someone tries to actively befriend me and I usually expect them to have a hidden agenda in that case (what do they want from me, it's time to be careful with this guy). This is more in real life, though, on the Internet the stakes are too low to get too paranoid. I'm often second guessing how people feel about me and can't seem to come to conclusions unless they display it extremely clearly and keep doing it.

I often prefer relations to be businesslike, so that it's always clear what I'm getting out of it and what I need to provide to them in return. If someone provides me a service for free I feel awkward and put at a disadvantage because I don't want them to expect something from me in return in the future. I don't mind doing such acts of service myself, because then I feel like I'm at an advantage and that it might come in useful sometime. Someone addressing me by name typically smells like an attempt at manipulation and makes me uncomfortable and suspicious.

It's also fine to enjoy doing things together, joke around and have good surface-level relations, so that nothing is expected from the other and neither tries to get too close to the other, starting to inquire about personal life, values and stuff like that. I never do that, I'm just not interested about the personal lives of other people.

I can't stand political correctness and sensitive feelings. I think people need to have thicker skins and just deal with it instead of getting upset. It's even worse when people get hurt on someone else's behalf, that's the most ridiculous thing I can think of. I don't want to restrict my blunt output to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Fi leads often seem judgemental and I don't like it.

A typical problem with a Fi user that I've had is that I say something off-handedly or as a joke that wasn't meant to be a personal attack, but they take it as such and get wound up. Then I say that I didn't mean it that way and it was just a joke, but their response is along the lines of "You don't get to decide how it comes across to me. You hurt me, now I have the right to be angry at you". This is just something I can't deal with in close relationships, it's like walking in a minefield and I set them off constantly. I can just ignore such insults/attacks and especially if they clarify that it wasn't meant that way then it will be fine by me and doesn't need to be dissected further.

@voider, I'd just like to add as a clarification that I'm not suspicious about you personally. SEE seem straightforward to me in a good way. This is again an example of how I feel about Fi, I either don't give a shit about feelings at all, or if I do like someone then I'm afraid of accidentally saying something that will offend them when that wasn't my intention.

@Sol
Read the first paragraph please

[Beautiful sky]

Yes as an INFj I can open myself up and build all kinds of relationships very easily and maintain them. When I was younger I had no reserve about approach people in their own special way and establishing a bond if I was not in my “leave me alone, I want to be in my introverted world today” way. I have tried to approach a stranger SLE in my community and he was so suspicious and held a guard up against me that I didn’t even resume. He was a builder of homes and I thought I could benefit from the knowledge that he possessed. I tried a few more times but he disappeared so that was the end of it

[Beautiful sky]

@Sol what do you have to say now? Or, are you going to continue to be a stubborn ass?!?!?

[Sol]

@Beautiful sky
@Northstar

just watch videos of each other. or better video-link alike skype. try to talk
you should notice irrational mutual sympathy

this would be the argument about your good IR and my opinion about your types

I recommend you to try this experiment
Not so many people are your duals with which you may talk significantly. To watch how those behave. To understand how they think.
Also many of which you'll think as duals will not be so, due to ~50% average accuracy, where noobs and heretics should to have some lesser

though, negative non-types factors may be lesser usual for you both. but you may try, anyway. to become good friends is not obligate

[Beautiful sky]

@Beautiful sky
@Northstar

just watch videos of each other. or better video-link alike skype. try to talk
you should notice irrational mutual sympathy

this would be the argument about your good IR and my opinion about your types

I recommend you to try this experiment
Not so many people are your duals with which you may talk significantly. To watch how those behave. To understand how they think.
Also many of which you'll think as duals will not be so, due to ~50% average accuracy, where noobs and heretics should to have some lesser

though, negative non-types factors may be lesser usual for you both. but you may try, anyway. to become good friends is not obligate

Why are you tossing me into this relationship?
I mean sol what on earth. That’s not how I build relationships

[Sol]

As duals you should find significant similarity of life views. For example, you both (1,2) did personal insults against me after geting my opinion about your types. To get info about types on forums made to give such info is a too stressful situation for you. I understand. Not good for your objectiviy, but should fit to your High Ideals.

In your communications your High Ideals may get the max expression.
May be you even will notice due to mirror effect the need to reduce some of your "best" traits. And such to become even better. As duals are expected to help each other - by the best ways they can.

P.S. about Northstar's type I'm not totally sure still. as his sight and behavior are unusually emotional than common for Ts. and he did not made normal typing video still

[Beautiful sky]

As duals you should find significant similarity of life views. For example, you both (1,2) did personal insults against me after geting my opinion about your types. To get info about types on forums made to give such info is a too stressful situation for you. I understand. Not good for your objectiviy, but should fit to your High Ideals.

In your communications your High Ideals may get the max expression.
May be you even will notice due to mirror effect the need to reduce some of your "best" traits. And such to become even better. As duals are expected to help each other - by the best ways they can.

P.S. about Northstar's type I'm not totally sure still. as his sight and behavior are unusually emotional than common for base Ts. and he did not made normal typing video still

Have I ever cared about your typing? NO
You have the most absurd, ludicrous, personal and unintellectual criteria that is above all lacking in T -objectivity and it’s very personal so very F and introverted so you are I F