Fi PoLR - Misunderstood

[Alonzo]

What other reasons can you think of for Fi polrs leading to being seen as rude assholes? Is it mostly that, or something else? Because I do think @Lord Pixel is right in that there’s a real correlation, at least with how we’re being perceived by others, that can’t just be ignored.

I think part of it involves being an Fe valuer.

A certain aspect of Fe involves making explicit emotional provocations, directly inducing an emotional state in someone else in order to receive clear cut emotional feedback, which is actionable information, e.g. > I can feel that person’s/group’s expressed sadness, and it feels bad, and so I want to make them feel better, so that we all feel better.

High D Fe valuers excel at processing/interpreting Fe emotional feedback and using that to manipulate the emotional landscape in whichever way they so choose. If they want to raise the mood and for everyone to feel good, they can do this with nuanced and sophisticated emotional cues (e.g., capable of manifesting the difference between cheerful [happy + hopeful] and contented [happy + satisfied]. They also have high D Fi and even if not their immediate go to, can readily access their own feeling state and close the psychological distance with those around them in order to check in on everyone else’s internal feeling states, to gauge how well folks are responding to the Fe, and modulate accordingly. A high D Fe valuer might say, “I’m going to generate my own happiness, [which will cause me to] smile a lot and give pointed compliments [perhaps gleamed via Fi] that will make others feel good/happy/positive/upbeat.”

Though Low D Fe valuers are also capable of picking up ambient emotional feedback, they don’t often possess the same nuance and sophistication when it comes to utilizing that information; their Fe provocations tend to be blunter, coarser and less refined. I liken it to being hungry (subconsciously for Fe/to feel something/to feel alive, 'fuller') and knowing that you want a good meal, but not knowing the right ingredients to go about preparing it, so you throw in random, potentially off putting flavors, and no matter the outcome, you expect others to eat it. Lol

And edible ≠ digestible, tasty, healthy, and/or ‘good.’ Low D Fe valuers like ILEs can come off rather trollish (read: rude, offensive) because, in keeping with cognitive expectations, they're trying to elicit an emotional response (like disseminating an emotional ping over the network in order to receive a corresponding pong with data packets, thus showing a connection), just not in the way that others might want or like due to a lower capacity to differentiate Fe based information (e.g., how to raise someone's mood without causing offense). And because Low D Fe valuers also have low D Fi, they find it difficult to accurately discern their own subjective feeling state, let alone another’s feeling state, which means they may not care or even know that their Fe isn’t being positively received, and ESPECIALLY when engaging Fi valuers who aren’t inclined to explicitly broadcast their feelings. Whereas other Fe valuers, like an ESE, for example, might be more inclined to visibly wear their offense, thereby letting an ILE know unambiguously that they crossed a line.

[The Reality Denialist]

if Jerry told you that he likes you,
if Jerry told you he likes Abbie less than you,
if Jerry spends more time with Abbie than with you, (and it's accepted that he spends more time with people he likes)
then Jerry might actually like Abbie more than you.

You would then have a "rationale" to feel the feeling "jealousy"("wtf he even lied to me!"), and call out Jerry on his behaviour.


These mental processes are mostly absent in Fi-Polrs(and Fi-inf too sometimes).

Well this representation already forms easy classification scheme. This information bounces back from my ear canals if it ever tries to enter in it and if it does it usually gets sorted to trash bin alongside with commercials and similar stuff. The problem here is merely reception, decoding and motivation.

[Lord Pixel]

Fe is then about hurling insults at each other just to get some kind of "high" instead of being emotionally receptive and try to create a positive atmosphere.

The best way I can explain this is that with their Fe they like to create emotional explosions. Press all the buttons and see the sparks fly. My guess is for Fe valuers these explosions are exciting, like fireworks, they can experience such a wide range of emotions. While for Fi valuers, or at least Fi leading these explosions are infact explosions, inside, creating a mess, you experience deep emotions you have no control over and it's uncomfortable, and they like to make the mess and watch you deal with it. So it's very unhealthy to be around for leading Fi, because to one person it's a game and to the other it's not.

[The Reality Denialist]

The best way I can explain this is that with their Fe they like to create emotional explosions. Press all the buttons and see the sparks fly. My guess is for Fe valuers these explosions are exciting, like fireworks, they can experience such a wide range of emotions. While for Fi valuers, or at least Fi leading these explosions are infact explosions, inside, creating a mess, you experience deep emotions you have no control over and it's uncomfortable, and they like to make the mess and watch you deal with it. So it's very unhealthy to be around for leading Fi, because to one person it's a game and to the other it's not.

Lol this is the reason I can not see you as EII. They expect those explosions from their duals because they can not get play it out easily. It is like EII's orchestrate LSE's do the Fe role for them - being regulators for highs and lows.

[Delilah]

... and an ISTj just said " Everybody dies, it happens." and the room just got really awkwardly silent...[/SPOILER]

Eh, i can just as easily see a FE polr say something like that, and it wouldn't be out of not actually caring. I hate to bring this up and butt in as it seems like it is a painful topic and took some effort for you to put in writing. cheers

[Lord Pixel]

Lol this is the reason I can not see you as EII. They expect those explosions from their duals because they can not get play it out easily. It is like EII's orchestrate LSE's do the Fe role for them - being regulators for highs and lows.

LSE doesn't say things to get over the top Fe reactions and press people's buttons, they are not hungry after emotional reactions and getting pleasure from causing them. LSE uses Fe as a social lubricant, being polite, fake smiles and all that because you have to.

[Lord Pixel]

Eh, i can just as easily see a FE polr say something like that, and it wouldn't be out of not actually caring. I hate to bring this up and butt in as it seems like it is a painful topic and took some effort for you to put in writing. cheers

I can see it being 1D Fe whether PoLR or just suggestive. Sorry for getting all woe is me, it's just this topic yea it's something I have experienced and have tried to understand for some time now.

[Alonzo]

LSE doesn't say things to get over the top Fe reactions and press people's buttons, they are not hungry after emotional reactions and get pleasure from causing them. LSE uses Fe as a social lubricant, being polite, fake smiles and all that because you have to.

Exactly. Fi valuers see feelings as subjective and personal--they are not public property and casually bandied about. Therefore, we don’t like to have our deeply held sentiments explicitly poked and prodded. That’s not a part of our cognitive expectations, which is why we might react rather negatively when Fe valuers try to stir and move us in that area. The only judgments we preferably and casually/routinely “extrovert” involve our thinking [Te]. It is not customary for Fi valuers to directly speak in/communicate feelings, e.g, “I feel sad “ or say something to make someone feel sad. We often speak in objective facts [Te] and use Fi to read between the lines, so to speak.

An Fi valuer could be telling me about how sick their elderly parent is and the difficult things they are doing to care for them but if I feel sad, it’s because I’ve put myself in their shoes and imagined how I would feel under those circumstances OR perhaps I did go through that so Fi muscle memory kicks in. We don’t try to manifest and rouse shared communal feeling [Fe], we allow each other to subjectively/authentically react to the objective information. And when Fi valuers do directly speak to our feelings (rather than express/embody them via Ne or Se), it’s usually done in some sort of “safe space” or when we’ve been pushed to the brink and they erupt.

[The Reality Denialist]

LSE doesn't say things to get over the top Fe reactions and press people's buttons, they are not hungry after emotional reactions and get pleasure from causing them. LSE uses Fe as a social lubricant, being polite, fake smiles and all that because you have to.

Yes, they are programmable robots controlled by EII...

BTW Fe PoLR: ILI gets depressed by emotional pressure (but they accept Trumpish trolly Fe not assigned particular cases) and SLI can not trust relationship with people who have real expressions (but they do accept IEE chirpy fakeness).

[karas]

SLE cousin in HS asked me if he could wear some of my clothes, FULLY knowing he would NEVER let me wear any of his clothes.

ILE roommate makes fun of how long it took me to find a job after college, then gets butt hurt when I make fun of the only job he could find after college.

SLE friend in highschool slaps me in the face, to DEMONSTRATE something that happened to his friends, FULLY knowing it would be a fight if I did that to him.

ILE friend in college, frequently hits me, throws shit off the dirty floor from outdoors at my face after many times of me telling and yelling at him to stop, gets mad when I finally hit him back .

ILE roommate jump scares me while I'm driving, think it's not fair when I jump scare him back "because it's dark".

ILE roommate pulls chair from underneath me while I'm holding a bowl of food, thinks it's funny( the chair part actually was), and then thinks it would have been so much more funny if I spilled all my food and ruined my carpet, as well as wasting food and spending hours to clean up the mess. Thought it would have been soooo funny.

ILE roommate slaps me in my face for shit and giggles from time to time, when I slap him back he slaps me back for slapping him, wtf.


ILE friend in college, sees on the news my home country got hit with an earthquake and people died, first thing he does is make some dumb joke about a pokemon hitting the country with earthquake. Clever joke, horrible timing, and he doesn't give shit when I tell him that's fked up and alot of peopled died, laughs anyway.

SLE cousin borrows my jacket, loses it, when I tell him I'm gonna use his jacket until he brings mine back because that's fair, he won't have it, uses his jacket anyway.

SLE cousin tried to break my wrist when we were kids, just to see how strong he was, and when I forced him to stop, he gets mad, we fight and he tries to punch me in the face.

I introduce ILE roommate to MBTI and he asks me if I am T or F and before I told him he says " you must be f cuz ur a bitch." Same guy who asks if he's my best friend. Same guy who has said to me " If I'm not best man at you're wedding I'm gonna kinda be offended." What?!

In those moments my Se PoLR likes to fantasize all the ways I could scare someone if I owned a gun.


and of course I know a number of ILEs who are not like this, they are all 40 and up.
I know one SLE who I get along with smoothly, probably 6w7 or something idk, no issues except when working together and it's just a matter of us doing things very differently. I've also had SLE co workers where one was 8w7 and definetely did not like me, and one was 7w8 and just liked to tell you a good story of his wild adventures. It's a mixed bag but there are threads of similarities I just can't ignore at this point.[/SPOILER]

IEE and ILE are playful prankster ,SEE and SLE aggresive prankster. EIE LIE rude prankster.



http://www.socionicsforum.com/vbulle...NTj-by-Beskova
Don't take note if sometimes he may seem somewhat rude. In interaction with people he is indeed clumsy, at times making offensive remarks, other times taking offense over something. Sometimes LIE male is prone to falling into depressed state. This means that he doesn't have a real, worthwhile job or project where he could realize himself to the maximum. What can you do, everyone has their faults, but he also has many other good characteristics.

Also you need to know that he is not the kind who solves problems "with fists", with brute force. This is a relatively soft, even a bit indecisive man, who avoids power collisions.

From life of LIE male: "One time we went on vacation with my husband. We rented a room on first floor. Suddenly in the middle of the night I hear that someone is climbing through our window. I've gotten frightened, started to wake him up. When I managed to wake him up and explain what is happening, he turned around and politely asked" Excuse me, sir, what did you need here?"

[Lord Pixel]

IEE and ILE are playful prankster ,SEE and SLE aggresive prankster. EIE LIE rude prankster.



http://www.socionicsforum.com/vbulle...NTj-by-Beskova
Don't take note if sometimes he may seem somewhat rude. In interaction with people he is indeed clumsy, at times making offensive remarks, other times taking offense over something. Sometimes LIE male is prone to falling into depressed state. This means that he doesn't have a real, worthwhile job or project where he could realize himself to the maximum. What can you do, everyone has their faults, but he also has many other good characteristics.

Also you need to know that he is not the kind who solves problems "with fists", with brute force. This is a relatively soft, even a bit indecisive man, who avoids power collisions.

From life of LIE male: "One time we went on vacation with my husband. We rented a room on first floor. Suddenly in the middle of the night I hear that someone is climbing through our window. I've gotten frightened, started to wake him up. When I managed to wake him up and explain what is happening, he turned around and politely asked" Excuse me, sir, what did you need here?"

?What?

[sbbds]

But wouldn't asking "we're still bros, right?" show a lack of confidence in the relationship seeing as that had to be asked? High D Fi shouldn't have to ask because it's capable of accurately gauging the psychological distance between itself and others; it knows whether a relationship is still good or not.

Fi valuers, as a group, are less inclined to openly and freely wear and share our feelings, as far as explicitly communicating them through our faces and words (unless we are authentically overcome with some sentiment). And Fe valuers, especially the low D Fi breed, rely on feelings to be clearly expressed in order to know where they stand with you--in absence of this, they might not know that they've offended you or that you're hurt/bothered. I agree with you that Fi PoLR types are likely to regret or show some degree of remorse if they know for a fact or can readily discern that they've hurt you (especially if they care about you) but I can see how this can cause some trouble when you're dealing with clashing function preferences and dimensions.

An SLE friend once caught me shedding a thug tear (single tear drop on a stoic, dead pan face) and he told me rather callously that I'd be winning no Academy award for my unconvincing performance. lol Meanwhile, I was super embarrassed for what I believed was a moment of devastating vulnerability. He was disinclined to believe my suffering because I wasn't more histrionic and affected. I remember thinking to myself, "you, motherfucker, are not a safe space." lol But that same friend would literally kill to protect me or would give me the shirt off of his back if I needed it. And I've seen him cry with others who were crying and visibly shaken. I know that he has feelings and can respond to feelings, it's just that they have to be expressed/communicated/articulated in an unambiguous way in order for him to receive them as such--he's not going to automatically guess at someone's feeling state or perspective (like I'm also inclined not to do immediately but might do eventually, and even if wrong and completely out of my element because I actually value Fi). I don't need to be able to read the emotion on someone's face (though it is helpful), I just need their actions to be consistent with our relationship/what they allegedly feel for me. When I walk through a door, people who love me don't necessarily have to be ostensibly "happy" to see me so long as they're there to see me, which I'd take as an act of love and "happiness" with our relationship.

I wanted to reply to this properly earlier but I’ve been a bit busy and needed to think about this. Also, my Fi polr probably got hit by this and I cried some rare non-existent Fi antimatter tears.

I doubt the reason your friend “did not believe” your suffering was because of Fi polr alone itself, as this kind of story is something that would apply to SLEs and not ILEs usually. I believe that you were probably visibly shaken, but your friend:

a) Was probably not good at intuition enough to know your inner workings and be able to see the impact of small outward changes on your internal states. He didn’t “know” your psychology (or maybe anybody’s) well enough.

b) Was triggered by negative emotionality coming unexpectedly — it hit his polr, basically. When something makes you uncomfortable and insecure about yourself, you often unconsciously attack it (possibly especially if you’re SLE but I think it applies to anyone). It plays into the toxic masculinity kind of reaction too which @YXPR brought up.

It has taken a lot of development for me to notice and respond to small changes in people and see that they mean something. Even the most Fe polr ILI has some kind of emotional output IMO, even if it’s just a very slight change in behavior. So it’s not quite visible vs. invisible. It’s about low intuition and low experience, resulting in low observational skills for what the “visible” behaviors mean in terms of people’s psychology. And also repulsion from them due to insecurity.

[Alonzo]

I wanted to reply to this properly earlier but I’ve been a bit busy and needed to think about this. Also, my Fi polr probably got hit by this and I cried some rare non-existent Fi antimatter tears.

lol I'm sorry. If I did hit your PoLR, then please forgive me. The low D ethical functions strike again! It really does frustrate and bother me when I unintentionally offend or hurt someone due to a lack of sensitivity or not adequately gauging how someone might respond to my words. This is why I continue to have love, empathy and sympathy for my low D ethical brethren, because I understand that most of the time, our verbal recklessness is neither intentional nor "personal" though it can understandably feel that way to others. I've struggled with this throughout my life because it's fairly easy [and lazy] to be written off as mean, a "bad person," a callous jerk, an unfeeling asshole, etc... when, from our vantage point, we're simply "telling it like it is," which, ironically, is how we attempt to help and show care. I especially hate the "unfeeling" label because that's rather dehumanizing and untrue--there's no question that we feel, it's more about 1.) the depth and breadth of the feeling, 2.) whether or not we can accurately recognize/identify/label what it is we're feeling and 3.) to what degree we will allow those feelings to influence our decisions/actions/behaviors.

I think that, on average, ethical types have more powerful and efficient emotional processing capabilities that probably give them greater overall balance--speaking for myself, I'm usually either relatively out of touch with whatever it is I'm feeling in the moment [sometimes due to consciously ignoring my feelings] OR, particularly in times of maximum stress, over reacting and being hyper sensitive because of accumulated emotional baggage that's become too heavy and burdensome and is subsequently spilling out all over the place. And on my own, it's very difficult and exhausting to sift through the emotional confusion in order to come to some definitive conclusion concerning the culprit and solution, which is why I often choose to ignore/put off doing that in the first place!

Does being Fi PoLR and a woman (considering possible societal pressures and gender expectations) ever factor into some of your frustration?

I doubt the reason your friend “did not believe” your suffering was because of Fi polr alone itself, as this kind of story is something that would apply to SLEs and not ILEs usually. I believe that you were probably visibly shaken, but your friend:

a) Was probably not good at intuition enough to know your inner workings and be able to see the impact of small outward changes on your internal states. He didn’t “know” your psychology (or maybe anybody’s) well enough.

b) Was triggered by negative emotionality coming unexpectedly — it hit his polr, basically. When something makes you uncomfortable and insecure about yourself, you often unconsciously attack it (possibly especially if you’re SLE but I think it applies to anyone). It plays into the toxic masculinity kind of reaction too which @YXPR brought up.

It has taken a lot of development for me to notice and respond to small changes in people and see that they mean something. Even the most Fe polr ILI has some kind of emotional output IMO, even if it’s just a very slight change in behavior. So it’s not quite visible vs. invisible. It’s about low intuition and low experience, resulting in low observational skills for what the “visible” behaviors mean in terms of people’s psychology. And also repulsion from them due to insecurity.

Yeah, this all sounds pretty legit, I think you're right.

[sbbds]

lol I'm sorry. If I did hit your PoLR, then please forgive me. The low D ethical functions strike again! It really does frustrate and bother me when I unintentionally offend or hurt someone due to a lack of sensitivity or not adequately gauging how someone might respond to my words. This is why I continue to have love, empathy and sympathy for my low D ethical brethren, because I understand that most of the time, our verbal recklessness is neither intentional nor "personal" though it can understandably feel that way to others. I've struggled with this throughout my life because it's fairly easy [and lazy] to be written off as mean, a "bad person," a callous jerk, an unfeeling asshole, etc... when, from our vantage point, we're simply "telling it like it is," which, ironically, is how we attempt to help and show care. I especially hate the "unfeeling" label because that's rather dehumanizing and untrue--there's no question that we feel, it's more about 1.) the depth and breadth of the feeling, 2.) whether or not we can accurately recognize/identify/label what it is we're feeling and 3.) to what degree we will allow those feelings to influence our decisions/actions/behaviors.

I think that, on average, ethical types have more powerful and efficient emotional processing capabilities that probably give them greater overall balance--speaking for myself, I'm usually either relatively out of touch with whatever it is I'm feeling in the moment [sometimes due to consciously ignoring my feelings] OR, particularly in times of maximum stress, over reacting and being hyper sensitive because of accumulated emotional baggage that's become too heavy and burdensome and is subsequently spilling out all over the place. And on my own, it's very difficult and exhausting to sift through the emotional confusion in order to come to some definitive conclusion concerning the culprit and solution, which is why I often choose to ignore/put off doing that in the first place!

Ohh I know that feel lol

Does being Fi PoLR and a woman (considering possible societal pressures and gender expectations) ever factor into some of your frustration?

I used to be afraid that I wouldn’t be able to bond properly with kids if I had them—a basic motherly task, but after enough experience around kids, I knew that wouldn’t be the case.

If anything I think being a woman softens the effect. I’m less likely to say shitty things to other people for fun, which seems to be actively expected from guys. So I don’t have society feeding negative behaviors really. Makes my ethics better so I’m less frustrated in those situations. If I were a guy I might get myself in jail. Also I’m simply cuter and fluffier than the average man as a woman, so even if I said really nasty shit, my “emotional” opinion would still be somehow more valued and less of a threat IMO. Like a baby giving you the middle finger.

[The Reality Denialist]

Anyway I have hard time following this huge exaggerated PoLR which is supposed to be more like "meh dude" effect in the shadows of base Fe bases who are the hysterics and also way way below after creative, demonstrative and maybe role Fe it comes to play.

It just means being irrational truther over feeling.

[inaLim]

I keep people at a 5,000ft psychological distance, and this makes my eye twitch:

lol@the emboldened > dat situational/flexible Fi. If, for example, personal gain is the goal, then I'd think the ability to get close to/predispose yourself to people really comes in handy. A problem with 1D Fi is that because it inherently gives so few fucks (about anything), it encourages poor "follow through" when it comes to nurturing/maintaining stable interpersonal bonds enough to get anything truly substantial out of a relationship--getting close enough to mount a one time hit/heist may be possible but talented Fi creatives know how to create a well that will consistently quench their thirst (if that's what they want). A shady LIE's grift is more easily exposed because they can barely manage the energy and effort to care to keep a relationship from being compromised, or successfully rescue it after it's been compromised. My mom has creative Fi and she has "go to" people for every need and desire, but she never interacts with them solely on those bases; she does a lot of "good will," "laying the ground work" gestures in between asking for anything so as to appear like it's a caring, mutually beneficial relationship, when she and I both know that she doesn't really give a fuck, she just wants what she wants and knows how to keep getting it. Because she doesn't wreak havoc and destroy lives, I call her sociopath-lite. lol

Fi creative can help you get closer to people, it's about the psychological distance. I have NO PROBLEM in getting someone to like me really fast. If I have shitty intentions, I can have people open up real fast and be vulnerable to me. I think Fi creative is there to have both SEE's and IEE's penetrate through the Fe polr walls ILI's and SLI's have.

[Dr PissBender]

I keep people at a 5,000ft psychological distance, and this makes my eye twitch:

Congrats.

[grumpyvic81]

That's what I was thinking after I read the responses also. I had an ILE roomate who occasionaly would ask me things like "So I'm you're best friend right?" "Where do I rank on your friend's list?" ( I know that sounds weird but in the context of the convo it wasn't). Like he had to check in with me because he wanted to know. At the time it was strange for me because I cudn't understand how he did not know considering the "vibe" between us.

I ask if the other person's behaviour changes. Good point though, trying to be in touch with the "vibe" thing, it's not easy for any Logical type I bet lol

I never got as direct as asking "where I rank on your friend list" but I would definitely like to have such specific information lol if I could, this question would just be weird to ask. I have however asked certain people before if I am important to them. Mostly, in the example I can recall now it was because they really did have a bad fall-out with me though that would be like, a whole year before I asked, but I would sense how their behaviour still didn't go back to how it was before that. Like, spending less time around me. And something else that just plain didn't register consciously but bothered me in the background without me noticing I think. Consciously I only saw that they were less responsive, spending less time around me. Maybe less responsive as in less enthusiastic and more distant or nonchalant too. Not outright cold tho, I'd notice that consciously.

And that's what I mean't when I said Fi PoLR can do screwed up things to you and still ask things like "We are best friends right?" thinking you are still gonna like them after the completely screwed up thing they did, which blows my mind.

In the above example the fall-out was because they thought I did some major wrong, while I didn't in actuality, long story, but yeah, that is part why I asked for clarification in that example. I did ask that same person at other times too, but that's the example that stands out the most to me.

Yes and they look at me like "We're not friends anymore....?" sad look. Like wtf it's not my fault ur an asshat, they should have seen that coming. But my guess is Fi PoLR can't really see how their actions influence the relationship or something? Or where the relationship stands if the F is silent, which makes sense except treating someone like shit and not knowing they are gonna bail on you (even if they never say anything about how you treat them) is kinda like....how do you not see that coming? But it's probably all the nature of the PoLR.

That comes off as harshly unreasonable to me. I don't believe in mindreading or expecting that other people are copies of ourselves. Relationships do not work long-term that way. Compromise and acceptance that the other person is not a copy of you help.

[grumpyvic81]

Congrats.

... So you really find it OK to go like "Fi creative can help you get closer to people, it's about the psychological distance. I have NO PROBLEM in getting someone to like me really fast. If I have shitty intentions, I can have people open up real fast and be vulnerable to me" and you have a problem with it if someone doesn't like this.

Ew. And you even find it okay to openly admit it, hell, at least it helps warn people.

[Dr PissBender]

... So you really find it OK to go like "Fi creative can help you get closer to people, it's about the psychological distance. I have NO PROBLEM in getting someone to like me really fast. If I have shitty intentions, I can have people open up real fast and be vulnerable to me" and you have a problem with it if someone doesn't like this.

Ew. And you even find it okay to openly admit it, hell, at least it helps warn people.

I don't find it okay, i'm just saying what it's capable of if unhealthy. Any type can use their functions for evil. That's why I said "If" I have shitty intentions, not that I do.

[Dr PissBender]

I ask if the other person's behaviour changes. Good point though, trying to be in touch with the "vibe" thing, it's not easy for any Logical type I bet lol

I never got as direct as asking "where I rank on your friend list" but I would definitely like to have such specific information lol if I could, this question would just be weird to ask. I have however asked certain people before if I am important to them. Mostly, in the example I can recall now it was because they really did have a bad fall-out with me though that would be like, a whole year before I asked, but I would sense how their behaviour still didn't go back to how it was before that. Like, spending less time around me. And something else that just plain didn't register consciously but bothered me in the background without me noticing I think. Consciously I only saw that they were less responsive, spending less time around me. Maybe less responsive as in less enthusiastic and more distant or nonchalant too. Not outright cold tho, I'd notice that consciously.




In the above example the fall-out was because they thought I did some major wrong, while I didn't in actuality, long story, but yeah, that is part why I asked for clarification in that example. I did ask that same person at other times too, but that's the example that stands out the most to me.




That comes off as harshly unreasonable to me. I don't believe in mindreading or expecting that other people are copies of ourselves. Relationships do not work long-term that way. Compromise and acceptance that the other person is not a copy of you help.

You're kinda... butthurt and salty over Fi egos, I see. How many of them did mess you up? Was it the IEE ex?

[grumpyvic81]

I don't find it okay, i'm just saying what it's capable of if unhealthy. Any type can use their functions for evil. That's why I said "If" I have shitty intentions, not that I do.

OK so we talked it out on chat how you are just one of those crazy IEEs who play around in that cloud with all those options so that's why you wrote it in the Present Real Conditional time. : straight face :

(A special little bit of Ti overload just for you https://www.englishpage.com/conditio...nditional.html)

[grumpyvic81]

You're kinda... butthurt and salty over Fi egos, I see. How many of them did mess you up? Was it the IEE ex?

uh lol?

[Dr PissBender]

OK so we talked it out on chat how you are just one of those crazy IEEs who play around in that cloud with all those options so that's why you wrote it in the Present Real Conditional time. : straight face :

(A special little bit of Ti overload just for you https://www.englishpage.com/conditio...nditional.html)

The way I said it was my intention. It gives you the gift of doubt, do I have bad intentions or not?

And calling me crazy? Who's crazier? The IEE or the one who gets in a relationship with them? It says more about you than it says about me.

[Dr PissBender]

uh lol?

We talked it out over chat. Are you sad? Need some Fe?

[grumpyvic81]

The way I said it was my intention. It gives you the gift of doubt, do I have bad intentions or not?

And calling me crazy? Who's crazier? The IEE or the one who gets in a relationship with them? It says more about you than it says about me.

We talked it out over chat. Are you sad? Need some Fe?

Do you feel we did not resolve it fully on the chat? I thought we did but you are here still getting pissed at my posts, misinterpreting what I say in a negative light (it was humour from me in that post tbh), and trying to find weak points of mine. Dead-end, tho'.

.... hence the popcorn emoji, but otherwise yeah, I genuinely thought we resolved it.

[Dr PissBender]

Do you feel we did not resolve it fully on the chat? I thought we did but you are here still getting pissed at my posts, misinterpreting what I say in a negative light (it was humour from me in that post tbh), and trying to find weak points of mine. Dead-end, tho'.

.... hence the popcorn emoji, but otherwise yeah, I genuinely thought we resolved it.

I'm in no way pissed. I'm just poking at you. Lmao, I just find you funny.

[grumpyvic81]

I'm in no way pissed. I'm just poking at you. Lmao, I just find you funny.

Sure your later post is full of general enough lines/questions, but the post #478 wasn't all that general ambiguous stuff.

I wasn't going to get into my personal life tho' especially when your guesses are so far off (I didn't mind the guessing itself but it's just pointless and negative), so I added the emojis to get the topic elsewhere.

And then you misread my emojis as sad, not that Im gonna try and guess what that means lol.

Anyhow yah if you want to alienate an LSI, just keep doing this to them: "It gives you the gift of doubt, do I have bad intentions or not?"

(tbh I had a laugh at that really when I read that)

The perfect recipe, if you want to arrange that they break up with you ASAP if you don't want to make the decisive move to break up the relationship yourself. : p

Hope you'll appreciate the tip.

And maybe while poking me you can see how Conflictors work, sure, there is a reason why I don't date IEEs for long lol, the one I tried to date it lasted weeks before I had enough and dumped him. : p

[Dr PissBender]

Sure your later post is full of general enough lines/questions, but the post #478 wasn't all that general ambiguous stuff.

I wasn't going to get into my personal life tho' especially when your guesses are so far off (I didn't mind the guessing itself but it's just pointless and negative), so I added the emojis to get the topic elsewhere.

And then you misread my emojis as sad, not that Im gonna try and guess what that means lol.

Anyhow yah if you want to alienate an LSI, just keep doing this to them: "It gives you the gift of doubt, do I have bad intentions or not?"

(tbh I had a laugh at that really when I read that)

The perfect recipe, if you want to arrange that they break up with you ASAP if you don't want to make the decisive move to break up the relationship yourself. : p

Hope you'll appreciate the tip.

And maybe while poking me you can see how Conflictors work, sure, there is a reason why I don't date IEEs for long lol, the one I tried to date it lasted weeks before I had enough and dumped him. : p

I'm glad I made you laugh. Finally someone makes you smile.

And nah, I didn't read your emojis as sad, I didn't care. I'm not an EIE, baby. But you can be aggressive if you want.

What tip? I don't understand that gibberish. You have such a weird train of thought.

Awwww, that's a touching story.

[grumpyvic81]

I'm glad I made you laugh. Finally someone makes you smile.

And nah, I didn't read your emojis as sad, I didn't care. I'm not an EIE, baby. But you can be aggressive if you want.

What tip? I don't understand that gibberish. You have such a weird train of thought.

Awwww, that's a touching story.

By the emoji stuff I was mentioning that you were misreading me somehow (same with getting so stuck on how I dated an IEE : it was years ago, it left no real impression on me lol)

"It gives you the gift of doubt, do I have bad intentions or not?" ---> LSI has Ne PoLR and weak Fi* so doing this to an LSI is gonna make them pissed off enough if they don't know this is what you are doing. It was a joke tho' the whole tip thingy


*: wanting the not easily visible intentions to be clear and unambiguous especially in personal matters

[Dr PissBender]

By the emoji stuff I was mentioning that you were misreading me somehow (same with getting so stuck on how I dated an IEE : it was years ago, it left no real impression on me lol)

"It gives you the gift of doubt, do I have bad intentions or not?" ---> LSI has Ne PoLR and weak Fi* so doing this to an LSI is gonna make them pissed off enough if they don't know this is what you are doing. It was a joke tho' the whole tip thingy


*: wanting the not easily visible intentions to be clear and unambiguous especially in personal matters

You're good at this. I like you. You're different.

See? You understand me, in a way.

[Lord Pixel]

That comes off as harshly unreasonable to me. I don't believe in mindreading or expecting that other people are copies of ourselves. Relationships do not work long-term that way. Compromise and acceptance that the other person is not a copy of you help.

If someone treats you like shit, and not in unobvious way, but a very blantant and obvious way, they don't have to be a mind reader to understand why you decided to bail on them. As far as I'm concerned, screw that person, they don't deserve an explanation, they are the one that treated me like shit, if they can't figure it out too bad, it's not my problem to care about them anymore. I don't see how that's unreasonable.

[grumpyvic81]

If someone treats you like shit, and not in unobvious way, but a very blantant and obvious way, they don't have to be a mind reader to understand why you decided to bail on them. As far as I'm concerned, screw that person, they don't deserve an explanation, they are the one that treated me like shit, if they can't figure it out too bad, it's not my problem to care about them anymore. I don't see how that's unreasonable.

I don't know what the person committed. Ive run into enough paranoid people who won't listen to reason at all when they make up their mind about how someone must have committed some real shit thing

So the devil's in the details

And what's obvious to feelers is often not obvious to logical types, and that's frankly got nothing to do with actual intent to treat you like shit.

This is like the most basic principle when the two extremes (feeler/ethical type vs logical type) interact.

[Dr PissBender]

I don't know what the person committed. Ive run into enough paranoid people who won't listen to reason at all when they make up their mind about how someone must have committed some real shit thing

So the devil's in the details

And what's obvious to feelers is often not obvious to logical types, and that's frankly got nothing to do with actual intent to treat you like shit.

This is like the most basic principle when the two extremes (feeler/ethical type vs logical type) interact.

Stop being so grumpy because people aren't like you. Vic. Compromise and acceptance that the other person is not a copy of you helps.

[Lord Pixel]

I don't know what the person committed. Ive run into enough paranoid people who won't listen to reason at all when they make up their mind about how someone must have committed some real shit thing

So the devil's in the details

And what's obvious to feelers is often not obvious to logical types, and that's frankly got nothing to do with actual intent to treat you like shit.

This is like the most basic principle when the two extremes (feeler/ethical type vs logical type) interact.

I'm not talking about, this person did something and they don't know it's wrong, with that you tell the person what they did was wrong, I'm talking about someone who intended to treat you like shit, does it, and gets surprised that you decided to drop them. It's obvious to them since they know their intentions and it's obvious to me since they did it to me. Regardless of type. If you hit someone, for no reason except that it makes you laugh, and you do that often, and then one day they decide not to hang out with you anymore, it doesn't mean you're a logical type that doesn't understand feelers, it means you're a retard that doesn't understand people. No offense to people who are actually on the spectrum.

[inaLim]

Another Fi PoLR hit.

Thinking about how people feel etc is one thing, but imo Fi is more about inner certainty and "just knowing" (or feeling) how things should be. If you have Fi you don't need to think about these things.

It's easy to see this in Fi base people. They look at you in a certain way, and they totally disregard who you really are, because they already have their inner view/certainty on what you are. It's very subjective.

Fi seekers seem to want this certainty from others.

I swear my mom's Gamma SF brothers have created some alternate timeline version of me in their minds.

[grumpyvic81]

Stop being so grumpy because people aren't like you. Vic. Compromise and acceptance that the other person is not a copy of you helps.

It helps if both sides do that

I'm not talking about, this person did something and they don't know it's wrong, with that you tell the person what they did was wrong, I'm talking about someone who intended to treat you like shit, does it, and gets surprised that you decided to drop them. It's obvious to them since they know their intentions and it's obvious to me since they did it to me. Regardless of type. If you hit someone, for no reason except that it makes you laugh, and you do that often, and then one day they decide not to hang out with you anymore, it doesn't mean you're a logical type that doesn't understand feelers, it means you're a retard that doesn't understand people. No offense to people who are actually on the spectrum.

Again, I don't know the specific details. Was he hitting you regularly to get a laugh at your expense even if you were protesting?

Note: The misunderstanding is mutual, feelers don't understand logical types more easily either

[grumpyvic81]

I swear my mom's Gamma SF brothers have created some alternate timeline version of me in their minds.

Ive seen that from Fe egos too so its whatever

[inaLim]

To me Fe is like a salesman that can run you over or a seducer that can suck you in if you don't have a mind of your own. When Fe egos do it, its like they try to nudge, push, or pitch me their idea of what I was/am/could be.

And Fi is like an ironclad contract with hidden clauses that got drawn up between them and a representative appointed for me. When Fi egos do it, its like they set up a replica of me and start building a relationship with that as if they're getting closer to me.


That's my personal impression of Fe vs Fi. I'll take the salesman. I can handle Fe.

[Lord Pixel]

It helps if both sides do that




Again, I don't know the specific details. Was he hitting you regularly to get a laugh at your expense even if you were protesting?

Note: The misunderstanding is mutual, feelers don't understand logical types more easily either

I'm speaking in general, not about any specific situation.
If someone stole money from you, continually, on purpose, not - thought it was their's, not - thought they could borrow it, but knew it was your money and they took it anyway. They had bad intentions, it's obvious to them what they are doing is wrong to you. So if you bail on the person, they don't have to be a mind reader to know why, they should not be surprised. You don't have to be an F type to know not to steal from your friends. There are somethings that people understand regardless of type.