Attachment styles

[Shytan]

Just finished reading “Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment” by Rachel Heller, you can find it on pdfdrive.com, and I’ve realized how important attachment styles are in our relationships. I’ve been in an anxious-avoidant relationship with an IEE 6w7, I have an anxious attachment style and he avoidant, and reading the book has quite literally finalized my break up with him.
Anyway, if you know about the attachment styles, can you equate them to socionics or enneagram types? For example Logical sensing types may often have the avoidant attachment style, I guess.

[Adam Strange]

I’m sorry to hear about your break up, @Shytan, but a problematic attachment style was actually the straw that broke the camel’s back of my marriage.

She was Avoidant and I am Secure, but living with an Avoidant was turning me into an Anxious.

The book I read was Avoidant: How to Love (or Leave) a Dismissive Partner, by Ken Kinnison. He said that an attachment style doesn’t change very much, so you either have to leave or accept it. I chose to leave.

To answer your question, I would say that attachment styles are weakly correlated to instinct and type. Meaning that an sx-last person might be more inclined to avoid people, and sx-last types are more prevalent in some Socionics types than others. But I don’t think the correlation is very strong.

[Shytan]

I’m sorry to hear about your break up, @Shytan, but a problematic attachment style was actually the straw that broke the camel’s back of my marriage.

She was Avoidant and I am Secure, but living with an Avoidant was turning me into an Anxious.

The book I read was Avoidant: How to Love (or Leave) a Dismissive Partner, by Ken Kinnison. He said that an attachment style doesn’t change very much, so you either have to leave or accept it. I chose to leave.

To answer your question, I would say that attachment styles are weakly correlated to instinct and type. Meaning that an sx-last person might be more inclined to avoid people, and sx-last types are more prevalent in some Socionics types than others. But I don’t think the correlation is very strong.

Yeah, I can see the weak link between attachment styles and instincts. I don’t think personality type matters - you just are the way you are. I feel so relieved now because I thought I had a problem when really he was just bringing out the worst in me. Unconsciously. I hope I’ll be able to follow through with the breakup though, because I’ve tried to leave before and ended up coming back (The Anxious-Avoidant trap). I do want a stable and compatible relationship, so I’ll have to put in the work. Thanks for the book suggestion, I’ll get on it right away.

It’s sad how no matter how much you love a person, compatibility will always be the nosy important and deciding factor. Attachment styles, quadras, duality, instincts. I feel like I’m going mad.

[Quez]

he was just bringing out the worst in me. Unconsciously.

Elaborate please.

As well, what type and how certain are you of his DCNH (/points to your signature)?

[Shytan]

Elaborate please.

As well, what type and how certain are you of his DCNH (/points to your signature)?

We had the classic Anxious/Avoidant relationship, which since I didn’t know about attachment styles before today, I thought was because he was a Counterphobic 6 and afraid to be vulnerable with me because of his past experiences so I kept pushing and coming back. Basically I wanted way more intimacy than he could give, I wanted to be told I love you and to be reaffirmed, I wanted him to be in communication with me more than he was, etc. The sex was the only way he would express what he realy felt, when he would say he loves me, when he’d apoogize for yet again alienating me because he “had too much on his mind.” Whenever I’d want to talk about things he would say I’m dramatic and that he has too much going on. Something just didn’t feel right, and I wasn’t this way in my past relationship, meaning he activated my attachment system.
What’s weird is that he is extremely jealous/ possessive as well, maybe that’s why he didn’t want to break up with me despite me demanding more than he wanted to give. Maybe he’s anxious-avoidant, which is even worse.

[Adam Strange]

@Shytan, try to read the book I recommended. Kinnison has a lot to say about identifying a person’s attachment style before you get in too deep. He also has a great chart showing the percentage of Secures in the population vs. age. Secures tend to marry other Secures, and when they do, they are permanently removed from the dating pool, leaving a higher and higher percentage of singles who are unable to maintain a close relationship, and who keep recycling through relationships. After age 30, about half the population is single, but only about 20% of the remaining single people are Secures.
So date early and date often.

Kinnison also wrote a great book called Bad Boyfriends. That one is worth reading, too.

He has a website if you want to get a sense of his writing style before buying his books.

[Mila]

I'm just reading typical Ne lead man (p) vs Fi lead woman (j). IEE is naturally build to SLI, they are not good for that kind of intimacy.
Also I have had the same problem with EIIs seem too obsessive about ppl in some ways and I felt them as dramatic sometimes. It usually makes them act weird an I start to avoid, detach and finally leave.

[Adam Strange]

I'm just reading typical Ne lead man (p) vs Fi lead woman (j). IEE is naturally build to SLI, they are not good for that kind of intimacy.
Also I have had the same problem with EIIs seem too obsessive about ppl in some ways and I felt them as dramatic sometimes. It usually makes them act weird an I start to avoid, detach and finally leave.

I had a date with an ESI-Se in which she described a previous SLI BF. She said that he just wanted her to do him, and he relied on size (Yes, that's actually what she said.) instead of paying attention to what she wanted. She told him, "No, we're supposed to take care of each other."

This is in keeping with the way that ESI-LIE relationships are supposed to be democratic, equal and Switch, and what I know about SLI's and IEE's. IEE's are in full crazy attack mode 24/7 as long as their partners are fairly passive, so an SLI really doesn't have to do very much.

On the other hand, I have been the object of attention from an EII, and I can say that she is persistent. Not especially obtrusive or demanding, but persistent. She's more like, "Wake up, Dummy. I'm right in front of you."

[Dr PissBender]

I'm just reading typical Ne lead man (p) vs Fi lead woman (j). IEE is naturally build to SLI, they are not good for that kind of intimacy.
Also I have had the same problem with EIIs seem too obsessive about ppl in some ways and I felt them as dramatic sometimes. It usually makes them act weird an I start to avoid, detach and finally leave.

This makes a lot of sense. I often feel LSE's are too bossy and close minded, but SLI's aren't. You're all more open and not intense like LSE's. LSE's are the intensity EII's need lol

[Dr PissBender]

I'm just reading typical Ne lead man (p) vs Fi lead woman (j). IEE is naturally build to SLI, they are not good for that kind of intimacy.
Also I have had the same problem with EIIs seem too obsessive about ppl in some ways and I felt them as dramatic sometimes. It usually makes them act weird an I start to avoid, detach and finally leave.

EII's are nice but they're soft vaginas

[Rebelondeck]

....... IEE's are in full crazy attack mode 24/7 as long as their partners are fairly passive, so an SLI really doesn't have to do very much........"

In the first year or two, perhaps but anxiousness often occurs because Eps tend to suffer from a grass-is-greener-somewhere-else syndrome. They can be somewhat like cats who want to prowl but still have a nice snugglely place to come home to; the thing that keeps them loyal is the snugglely - and the thought of losing it. Ips do sometimes tend to be avoiders who will often ignore the elephant in the room, which is that Ep syndrome.....

a.k.a. I/O

[Misfit]

What is the best match for fearful avoidant? EDIT: Or is that the same thing as an avoidant that @Adam Strange was saying? so sorry that you had to go through that, adam EDIT: actually upon reading an article about this i think i may be an anxious type. how can you tell? Yeah, i just realized this is not the same as high school AP psych i took years ago which i cheated on.....im anxious most likely. EDIT: Or anxious-avoidant dah im gonna have to study this more

[Adam Strange]

What is the best match for fearful avoidant? EDIT: Or is that the same thing as an avoidant that @Adam Strange was saying? so sorry that you had to go through that, adam EDIT: actually upon reading an article about this i think i may be an anxious type. how can you tell? Yeah, i just realized this is not the same as high school AP psych i took years ago which i cheated on.....im anxious most likely.

The best match for any type is a Secure, since Secures tend to move the other person back to normal. However, Anxious and Avoidant types often find themselves together because the other person's actions validates their fears. Two Avoidants never get together at all, and two Anxious types don't stay together long. The Anxious-Avoidant pair feed on each other in an unhealthy way, and two Secures lock on to each other and just never need to change. (For Attachment reasons, that is.)

[thegreenfaerie]

I'm not sure about now, but in the recent past, I was alerted to fitting the anxious-preoccupied attachment style in terms of romantic relationships, particularly in the early stages. I read it and I was like ... well, this explains some things.

[Rebelondeck]

Attachment seems to relate more to long-term cognitive need and not have much to do with romance which needs physical attraction as a stimulant. Attachment seems to be an application of Maslow's theory.....

a.k.a. I/O

[grumpyvic81]

We had the classic Anxious/Avoidant relationship, which since I didn’t know about attachment styles before today, I thought was because he was a Counterphobic 6 and afraid to be vulnerable with me because of his past experiences so I kept pushing and coming back. Basically I wanted way more intimacy than he could give, I wanted to be told I love you and to be reaffirmed, I wanted him to be in communication with me more than he was, etc. The sex was the only way he would express what he realy felt, when he would say he loves me, when he’d apoogize for yet again alienating me because he “had too much on his mind.” Whenever I’d want to talk about things he would say I’m dramatic and that he has too much going on. Something just didn’t feel right, and I wasn’t this way in my past relationship, meaning he activated my attachment system.
What’s weird is that he is extremely jealous/ possessive as well, maybe that’s why he didn’t want to break up with me despite me demanding more than he wanted to give. Maybe he’s anxious-avoidant, which is even worse.

I knew someone like you. But the only way I could see he wanted more emotionality from me was when he started criticising me for being "distant". Until then just expecting me to magically become emotional on my own without really behaving all that emotionally expressive himself. Were you doing the same by any chance? You wanted to be told you are loved and wanted to be reaffirmed but did you initiate/do that very much with him at all? If you actually did and he was not responsive to that, that would be quite dismissive yeah.

[Adam Strange]

Attachment theory came out of early studies by Bowlby of emotionally disturbed children.

His theory was that a child's connection to its mother was most the important factor in determining the child's attachment style. Some people disagreed. https://www.simplypsychology.org/attachment.html

What is clear is that a person's experiences with attachment successes and failures throughout one's life can affect them deeply, both positively and negatively.

https://longreads.com/2020/04/22/the...=pocket-newtab

[Shytan]

I knew someone like you. But the only way I could see he wanted more emotionality from me was when he started criticising me for being "distant". Until then just expecting me to magically become emotional on my own without really behaving all that emotionally expressive himself. Were you doing the same by any chance? You wanted to be told you are loved and wanted to be reaffirmed but did you initiate/do that very much with him at all? If you actually did and he was not responsive to that, that would be quite dismissive yeah.

Yeah, I would get mad “for no reason” and claim I felt that he was distant and that I couldn’t feel the intimacy between us.

[grumpyvic81]

Yeah, I would get mad “for no reason” and claim I felt that he was distant and that I couldn’t feel the intimacy between us.

Ah yeah that is what I meant above. That is where he probably then felt you needed mind reading lol. Based on how possessive he was though, I don't think he was anxious-avoidant, afaik that style is really rare anyway

I don't know, there's so many theories out there on how it's either just feeler/logical differences shit vs attachment shit. The truth is probably in the middle, i.e both count some.

[Adam Strange]

I've been seeing an ESI-Fi for about a year and a half and glaciers move faster than she does. I text her and don't hear from her for hours. We make dates and she postpones. I'm usually Secure but her Fearful-Avoidant style is turning me into an Anxious, and I don't like that. I don't like that at all.

I'd step away from the bus, but I have this strong Nomos style of love and I almost feel a duty to her to keep going.

NOMOS

All nomos types are organized around duty and the impetus that humans should care for one another in a conscientious way. Nomos types are forward-thinking and responsible lovers who see our commitment to each other not just as "duties" or "obligations," but as opportunities to deepen our own moral stature and cultivate a sense of belonging as well. Nomos types understand that humanity is a social and cooperative species and that very few things of importance can be accomplished by one person setting out for themselves. Consequently, they care especially deeply about the life and values of communities, their friends and social circles, and they often see opportunities for how everyone can be made to work together within them. Nomos types are dependable and trustworthy lovers who believe that (in love as well as in life) just rewards come to those who care not just about themselves, but for their community as a whole.

I'm an idiot when it comes to romance. I need a woman who is Secure and wants to be in the relationship as much as I do.

Gotta step away. Gotta keep looking.

[Adam Strange]

The ESI-Fi Fearful-Avoidant texted me today and asked if I’m parking cars and making money? I said yes. I did not ask her out again, since I’ve had poor success with that. She said, “Keep moving forward.”
I told her to call me if she wants to go out again.
She said “OK”.

I see this as her saying “I’m interested in you, but I don’t want to get together.”

This is exactly why I divorced my wife. She had the same approach.

Well,


Instead of waiting for something that might happen sometime when she remembers that I exist, I made a date with a woman on Match who looks like she could be an e9.
I’ve never dated an e9 before, so this will be good practice. I hope she doesn’t spend the whole time apologizing for insignificant stuff.
We’ll see.

[marooned]

Sigh she doesn't know what she's missing @Adam Strange. Oh well. This is why life is suffering. One doesn't know what they have and always wants what they can't have. It's really so much fun. Like it was all rigged against us since birth.

[Bethanyclaire]

Recently I’ve been dividing my past crushes into two categories..

I’ve been thinking about people in terms of energy- a hot or cooler energy. (In my mind I often associate a person with a colour too- I think I can simplify it down to either red or blue.) I was thinking that I could also use the labels of anxious/avoidant or attached/detached. Hot/red= anxious. Blue/cool= avoidant. At least I feel this is the energy I bring out in these people.

My biggest crushes were on guys with red hot energy, too hot, overwhelming, and I was attracted to them in an addictive way. I’ve also had crushes on people with a much bluer energy, some of these were still a little addictive but not as extreme as the red hot crushes. I think of my energy as pink..maybe.

I think my mum has blue energy and my dad red. They are supervision and I think opposite subtypes. I think this makes their energy somewhat balanced, even though their relationship is far from ideal. If I imagine an LIE-ni (who I usually feel
drawn too) but with a blue, cool energy I could see myself being very attracted to them..

bluer energy= more romantic/mysterious connection and red energy= more passionate/exciting

relationships can work with either and one isn’t better than the other but for me if the energy is too hot/intense then it is overwhelmingly addictive

i do it on friends too

my gay male IEE-ne friend has purple-y blue energy (more blue then red). Our relationship feels romantic but not so much that I actually fancy him. My female IEE-fi friend has a pink energy. My friendship with her feels more intensely romantic but not overwhelming.

[adage]

So far, I've found myself being anxious around avoidant and avoidant around anxious.
Secure around secure.

It's almost like I have no control over my own life at times, beside picking the right people and that's not what I'd prefer.

[Bethanyclaire]

I am probably fearful avoidant. I seem to have the most trouble with anxious preoccupied men. I feel like my brother who I clashed with growing up, could be this type. Though he may have been avoidant when younger.

I just can’t deal with insecure men who seek validation via manipulation. I mean sometimes I love them at first, (they seem in touch with their emotions) but then the gaslighting starts and they seem to enjoy the confusion that you both feel. It’s too much playing, like they are trying to entertain you, delight you, drive you mad.. like a…younger sibling….I also don’t think I can date a super avoidant type, someone not in touch with their emotions would scare me lol