Magnus Carlsen
In MBTI they discuss about him being either INTJ or INTP but I have seen an ENTp with very similar visual identification, he sounds a bit boastful and arrogant to me and jokes about himself being a genius at times, as a child he could focus for long time on tasks and has very different character than ENTj Garry Kasparov. What is his type?
Last edited by silke; 05-18-2019 at 07:07 AM. Reason: added pics
I was thinking ILI harmonizing. Maybe? But I don't know him that well, just watched a few videos.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Magnus Carlsen - Hamlet ?
Last edited by khcs; 05-17-2019 at 06:27 PM.
7w8 ?
Originally Posted by roger557
You know enneagram? That theory that is complementary to socionics?
Enneagram is about personality traits and it is not about personality types. Right?
Last edited by khcs; 05-10-2019 at 08:07 PM.
Yeah LSI was an interesting suggestion. He actually seems H-LSI
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
It is about people's motivations. It can be VI'ed too
A type is not made up of combined traits?
The personality traits constitute to well-defined Jungian categories.
These categories are the 16 inescapable prison cells which we call personality types.
I was not able to match them to the 9 loops of Enneagram.
Last edited by khcs; 05-11-2019 at 08:13 PM.
Type Characteristic role Ego fixation Holy idea Basic fear Basic desire Temptation Vice/Passion Virtue Stress/ Disintegration Security/ Integration 1 Reformer, Perfectionist Resentment Perfection Corruptness, imbalance, being bad Goodness, integrity, balance Hypocrisy, hypercriticism Anger Serenity 4 7 2 Helper, Giver Flattery(Ingratiation) Freedom, Will Being unloved To feel love Deny own needs, manipulation Pride Humility 8 4 3 Achiever, Performer Vanity Hope, Law Worthlessness To feel valuable Pushing self to always be "the best" Deceit Truthfulness, Authenticity 9 6 4 Individualist, Romantic Melancholy(Fantasizing) Origin Having no identity or significance To be uniquely themselves To overuse imagination in search of self Envy Equanimity(Emotional Balance) 2 1 5 Investigator, Observer Stinginess (Retention) Omniscience, transparency Helplessness, incapability, incompetence Mastery, understanding Replacing direct experience with concepts Avarice Non-Attachment 7 8 6 Loyalist, Loyal Skeptic Cowardice(Worrying) Faith Being without support or guidance To have support and guidance Indecision, doubt, seeking reassurance Fear Courage 3 9 7 Enthusiast, Epicure Planning(Anticipation) Wisdom, Plan Being unfulfilled, trapped, deprived For life to be a fulfilling adventure Thinking fulfillment is somewhere else Gluttony Sobriety 1 5 8 Challenger, Protector Vengeance(Objectification) Truth Being controlled, harmed, violated For life to be in their own control Thinking they are completely self-sufficient Lust(Forcefulness) Innocence 5 2 9 Peacemaker, Mediator Indolence(Daydreaming) Love Loss, fragmentation, separation Wholeness, peace of mind Avoiding conflicts, avoiding self-assertion Sloth(Disengagement) Action 6 3
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Thank you @Aylen
I believe this table can be cleaned up, reduced to 8 rows and then each row should be assigned to a single Jungian function. The whole system will become consistent this way.
Each Jungian function may have a characteristic role, fixation, idea, fear, desire, temptation, vice/passion, stress/disintegration, security/integration.
1 line must go! I am afraid the Enneagram professionals will not like it.
Or 7 new line is required. One for each personality type.
Last edited by khcs; 05-11-2019 at 09:12 PM.
LII-Ti 5w4 sx/so
Added: https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/lii-ti/
Owned: https://stackemup.livejournal.com/
5w4...the idiosyncratic-self-sufficient gestalt
Skinner is LII-Ti 5w6 sx/so (the solitary-self-sufficient gestalt)
Russ Hudson is LII-Ti 9w1 sp/sx (The purposeful-leisurely gestalt)
Hamlet ?
7w8-9w8-?
Ti-LSI 5w6, and likely an sp/so
LII
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
many chess players are ILI (caruana, anand) and LIE (kasparov, nakamura), but I agree with you that Carlsen is a LII.
maybe to complete the NT types: I think Alexander Grischuk is an ILE
https://youtu.be/_C-GjBSNQzM
Magnus Carlsen makes some interesting comments about himself here, because he's literally an analytic with a creative subtype.
I will go against the grain here and claim he is a LSI-Se. His mannerisms are very similar to a very good friend of mine who is a LSI-Se. They are both highly competitive and intelligent. When Magnus was 5 year olds he was very good at the memorization of flags, populations, capitals of over 200 countries which speaks to a healthy 4D -Si. Another thing that makes me lean towards a LSI-Se typing is how well developed his spatial reasoning is. This talent has given LSI’s an advantage in fields like engineering. He talks about not needing to have a chessboard on him to practice chess as he can picture the chessboard in his head just fine. When he talks about picking up patterns it is actually his Ti+ categorizing different approaches , styles and counters for them. He mentioned that he doesn’t think about chess theory beyond the things he finds useful to his style of play.
I shrug off LII typings because the LII’s are no where near as competitive as he is. I shrug off an ILI typing because of just how intense of a person he is. Both LSI’s and ILI’s care a lot about winning as Se valuing types. However, ILI’s keep that intensity on the inside (especially as they get older). However, in Magnus’s case, his -Se cannot hide itself to the point that if he makes mistakes, that internal emotion boils to the surface (just look up Magnus Carlsen rages). He can’t help it as that burning desire to dominate (-Se) is more potent than that of an intuitive type. Incidentally this eliminates LSI-Ti as a possible typing as LSI-Ti’s are known for their stoic nature whether they win or lose. Another thing that speaks towards him being a sensor is the never swaying attention he has for his appearance and health (he groomed himself so much, that he could become a model).
As for being an EIE... he has been known to come off as very arrogant and boastful. He is a sociable person, but it is very easy for him to come of the hinge in social situations and as a result he is not very diplomatic (1D +Fe).
Last edited by Investigator; 12-31-2019 at 10:47 AM.
I have absolutely no doubt that he is an LII. I have been following him for years and I'm pretty much watching every major tournament that he plays. I have an alpha group with friends who are interested in chess and we celebrate every victory. I consider him my soulmate.
yesterday he won the blitz world cup and played against 17 year old Alireza Firouzja
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPysTEW0YZU
Firouzja made an appeal against Magnus Carlsen after losing on time in a winning position, claiming that he irritated him because he spoke norwegian during the match, which was not the case. do you really think a beta type would have reacted so calmly, especially when Firouzja is much younger and has a "lower status" in the chess world?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sWVmVhBKSw
at the end of the tournament, Carlsen said that nobody should judge Firouzja for his decision (@3:25 in the video), because he's very young and upset. this is pretty much alpha forgiveness, not focusing on the mistakes people make.
LII 100%
I'm rooting for Alexander Grischuk in the candidates tournament. an ILE vs LII chess championship would be a dream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6ZDqUzGivU
I think that Ding Liren will win though.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Seems bout right
But why chess it is like you are not going to lose your lyfe or anything serious in worst case scenario... unlike in science.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I have never seen a LII behave in this manner before in my life. Watching this sent me back to the moments of fun I had with my LSI-Se friend in High School.
maybe your LSI friend is an LII. I think you pretty much need intuition to play at the level of >2800 elo btw.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Probably you should need more result orientation (=being visually connected to the environment) but there are always exceptions. That is because process types tend to be wait and see what happens more than anticipatory and get less kicks out of winning.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I am 99% sure he (my friend) is a LSI-Se. I concluded as such and he tested as such. He even complained about the impractical nature of other students who had an Alpha type and hates the alpha quadra nature of the university system (though he is a successful student). Intuition is not the deciding factor for skill in chess. That's like saying intuition implies high intelligence. What intuition does is it affects your style in chess. It is widely talked about that there is a dichotomy of calculation vs intuition in chess and Magnus has admitted that he is more analytical and not very creative. LII's see chess as a great mental event, while Magnus treats it as a physical sport no different from football or tennis (he has talked about this). To him, the biggest fun is in winning (he has also talked about this), winning is everything (something I relate to a lot as a Se valuing type). I recommend watching the video.
I think that chess is a combination of several functions. you need to have developed Te (memorisation of openings, and precise calculations in the endgame), during the middle game, intuition is very helpful, since you need to figure out possibilities, and strategic Ni also helps you a lot. Bobby Fischer and Garry Kasparov are LIE, and they were champions for a very long time. Carlsen is just this creative subtype that dedicated his whole life to chess, and LII have a characteristic of memorising very obscure things at a very young age when it falls into their sphere of interest. chess is very interesting for normalising subtypes, but he often has an edge because he plays for a win and isn't satisfied with a draw.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
I watched countless of videos by him. I also already knew your video. he made so many comments about himself that made it very clear that he's an LII. I also think his father is his dual, and he accompanies him all the time to take care of the mundane organisatorial things. I also think that some of his sisters are ESE. believe me, I've analysed him more than any other person I know. he is my identical. I also want to win at everything that interests me. I am highly competitive. you probably met more normalising LII than creatives
I really relate to most of his reactions to a ceremony. they somehow make me smile, because I know that I would react the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cct...ture=emb_title
Last edited by Still Alive; 12-31-2019 at 10:15 PM.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
I think to say he is a LII with strong Ne would be a strange claim to make, considering he is very much in tuned with taking care of his body from a very young age. LII's with strong Ne don't tend to be so mindful until later on in life. When I say competitive, I should make the distinction that there is a difference between "striving for victory is fun" vs "if I don't win I am going to be pissed" (which is Magnus's frame of mind). I guess this is my final post for this thread cause I don't want to create clutter by my own creation.
I have the same strong negative reactions when I lose. I don't think it's a problem to discuss his type here. it's just that I'm very sure that he's my identical, and extremly similar to me in his behaviour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQVd5W67hJw
>long time no see
>doesn't even bother to look into the camera
there are countless of videos where I just had to laugh at all the similarities to my behaviour.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
But it all starts from sensual information because there is still practically no image to brain bridge yet than senses like eyes ....touching could be also applied if rules allow it
. Anyways sensors have superior image encoding capacity. In essence this calls for quantifiable bottleneck measurements.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 12-31-2019 at 10:53 PM.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
That’s interesting. I met a LII friend (with high Ne) in my intro to Discrete Math class. One day he brought his nintendo switch to the university campus. I don’t play video games that often because I am too focused in various goals and video games are mentally taxing since I am very competitive and time consuming. So I told him this, but he insisted for me to race him in some version of mario kart... so I did. There was no way I would decline a challenge despite not knowing any of the controls (hard challenges are very invigorating). I end up beating him in one of the three races we did. He became flustered because a “newbie” beat him, but his negative reactions were clumsy and I was much obliged to playful edge him on further by rubbing the loss in his face (he could hurt someone in this state but not badly). When Magnus or my LSI-Se friend get flustered, their display of aggression comes in sharp and controlled bursts that honestly surprises me at first (the same thing happens for other Se-ego type in my experience). If he (my LSI-Se friend) displays this behavior, my immediate reaction is put the fire out (a lot of the times I would be the one starting the fires, haha).
On a side-note: I have found that Ni-ego types are very good at provoking a fire (good or bad) within our Se-ego counterparts. At the same time, it seems we are the most capable ones to extinguish that fire.
SLE/LSI
it's interesting how certain I was of his type, and then later changed it. I now see him as LSI with a creative subtype. I probably saw a lot of similarities to myself because of his accentuated Ne.
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
Basically he could moonlight as a Mall Cop. So, LSI.
He constantly comments he’s “not creative” and approaches chess in a very analytical way. He’s not an aggressive player even if he’s brilliant and can be but chooses to drag out the games so Se PoLR fits but also not Te valuer. In this recent interview, he’s saying he has to do better and is pushing himself to do better so creative subtype is likely since he’s extra Ne/Se for an LII. His Ti comes off fragmented (Ti-), not at all from straight deductions unlike ILI and LSI (Ti+).
Contrast Magnus with LSI Bobby Fischer who talks of reading about the bad stuff that’s reported about him and he has “cool anger” as in determination to do better. He likes having attention whether they’re haters or lovers. His Se is very, very good but it’s used in Beta terms. He knows the hierarchies inside and out and makes straight deductions as to what to do/how to proceed. His play style is very aggressive.
I think bobby fischer is an ILI with a dominant subtype, so ýour dual. chess seems to be more about functional accentuations. Te and Ti are very important, but there are quite a lot of ethical types with an >2000 Elo, too. even EJ temperaments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byn-cinHfPQ
I think it's a game that's very attractive for normalising subtypes. when I spend more time really analysing carlsen, I noticed that he's not as abstract and quiet as I initially thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVS-NIkkUrA
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ung-s-subjects
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