What happens to ppl who's raised by/with ppl of the opposite quadra or even with a conflictor parent? Do you think they can develop problems with adaptation which escalate or persist till adulthood?
People raised by family in opposite quadra.
What happens to ppl who's raised by/with ppl of the opposite quadra or even with a conflictor parent? Do you think they can develop problems with adaptation which escalate or persist till adulthood?
No, they’re all normal, BUT they become Socionicists.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-03-2019 at 01:39 AM.
Let's imagine that the entire family belongs to the opposite quadra. At the early stages of development things will go unnoticed, since the kid has almost no ability in whatever they do and no values, and will be easily forgiven for misunderstandings. As the kid starts to develop, some will admire the kid for having impressive abilities, others may overlook them. The kid will realize after some time that he/she has particular interests that no one in the family seems to have, and will tend to find common ground outside of the family. The kid will start to absorb information from more compatible people and start to trust more on people from the outside. Then the kid will start to develop a chamaleon personality among his/her family and will be carefree among some close friends. Now, everything the kid (who may be already a teenager) does is kept to him/herself and people from outside and he/she may long for marriage at an early age, or look for some other way of independence. But the family still thinks the teenager is very different and special. It means that if everyone in the family is in the opposite quadra, then It is easier for the child to adapt to them.
On the other hand, if only one parent is a conflictor, then the kid will rely on the other parent and keep distant from the conflictor. If the kid lives alone with a conflictor, the parent will very likely want to marry someone, and the the kid will rely on that person.
If the kid has contact with the conflictors since an early age it may be a lot easier to deal with, since the kid will absorb a lot of information and values from them
Last edited by BrainlessSquid; 05-03-2019 at 02:35 AM.
Big time problems. No joke kind of stuff. Obv life continues and like adam says but its bad until coping is done or maladaption.
Its just gay
Yup. They might become severely suppressed sometimes. Total halt might happen or not... some survive well some stay normal others become stagnant, unmotivated, fearful or in worst case scenario a socionist.
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I have a LSI friend whose parents are SEE and IEE. She is convinced that they have always done everything to ruin her life and that since childhood she has had to be the actual parent in the house.
My brother is ESI and our parents are EIE and SEI. As a teenager about one day out of two he would violently snap and claim that me and my EIE mom were making fun of him or trying to manipulate him. Now he is an adult and he still does this but not just with my mom and I. He recently organized a diner party and he snapped at my EIE sister. He kicked her out of his house in front of her children and of his own children too. He claimed that she was manipulating his guests in an attempt to ruin his evening. I think he has developed a strong distaste for anything Fe valuing.
Fun fact is that he met a IEE girl at church and got married to her very quickly at the age of only 21 years old. She became the only delta of the family.
I grew up in a family without any Alpha types. I don't think it traumatized me or anything, but it did affect my sense of what "normal" was. It wasn't until I got to college that I found people I truly related well with and was able to live in a way that was natural for me. This is not only due to type factors though.
Me, it sucks. Took me a while to come into my own, and I'm a bit more structured than many alphas because I was raised by gamma.
If the kid's a social introvert and the rest of their family is opposite quadra, I bet that kid never gets a word in edgewise during family discussions. The kid might learn to adapt a bit to their interaction styles, but ultimately it puts a heavy strain on him or her and forces him into a more introverted state around them, even if he or she may be a cognitive extrovert. Then he or she ends up dating or marrying someone from his or her own quadra. Then his or her family feels a little hurt and confused when the spouse knows more about their kid after knowing him or her for only a year, and they wonder why their own kid seems so at ease around the significant other.
Possibly speaking from my own experience, but I'm not sure what types my family members are.
Last edited by perpetuus; 05-03-2019 at 01:58 PM.
Your profile says "Fi-SLE"?Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts
It does, but that is because I would rather not have people immediately judge me based on a type that my profile says. AND it gives people an excuse to talk to me, which is also nice.Hellooo0ooo0o0o
HiIt does, but that is because I would rather not have people immediately judge me based on a type that my profile says. AND it gives people an excuse to talk to me, which is also nice.
Internal conflict.
The way one feels, sees, interpretes life is "wrong" by the people closest to them. Then it depends on whom is met. Rejecting the family vision is more likely to attract like minded people, but if one rejects the self, it is more likely they will hang around people who are alike their family and reject the like minded. This happens on a spectrum, plus the health, or lack thereof, plays its part too.
Why some reject family values, and others personal values is a matter of [...] many things.
I've met some that seem to be an "hybrid" between own quadra values and opposite quadra values. Such ppl have hard time coping with life or having a normal adulthood since they seem unable to fulfill "social" expectations (opposite quadra-familiar values), plus they were taught to see part of their natural values as wrong. So they seem to gravitate in some kind of loophole or void where they seem to not fit in any of the quadras and be rejected by all of them.
Since kids seem to learn to act as pseudo quasi identical (the type they are most alike) to avoid "hurting" one or both of the parents and adapt to their primary environment.
edit. Also is easy for them to develop some phobias or anxiety and disadaptation falling out in a loop for using Role Function to match with what's required from them.
Last edited by Mila; 05-08-2019 at 08:21 PM.
That's so ILE, to say something like thatIt does, but that is because I would rather not have people immediately judge me based on a type that my profile says. AND it gives people an excuse to talk to me, which is also nice.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
The essay at this link https://web.archive.org/web/20140419...tice/ego.shtml
may shed some light on the value of positive reinforcement of your ego functions.
Busted :|
very interesting, thanks.
When one becomes this hybrid kind of person, it brings inner conflict, so in a way, as they conflict with themselves, they may conflict with others too as a reflection of what is inside. Is it possible that the parent is conflicted and transfers that to the child without necessarily being a conflictor? And if so, there comes the question of where did it begin.
I have thought of having a conflictor parent, but sometimes I wonder if they aren't just conflicted.
Sometimes, I wonder how much I may be fooling myself over all this.
At the end of the day, who cares? I feel much better when I don't care, that's for sure.
This exactly. This ppl live in constant conflict with themselves and others (the cases I've seen).
If the parent grew up with a conflictor parent and he or she has kids I think they can bring their inner conflicts to their relationships as you and I said above. If you are suggesting that a parent who didnt grew up in a conflicting (opposite quadra) environment but are in a relationship with a conflictor would conflict his/her own kids, my answer is no (I mean, I don't think they project their conflict with another ppl in their kids). I haven't seen it at least. For example I know this EII gf since elementary school and her mom was EIE and her dad SLI (her sisters were ExE and xEI, from a different dad). She always had problems with her mom but never with her dad. She loved her dad , but her parents divorced and he left and moved to another city and had another family (still calling her and visiting her on christmas and else). My friend always said to me that her mom was crazy and hated her and wish her dead (literally) and that it was her fault that his dad left, then she always acted and tried to play as this perpetually perfect innocent holy and selfless kid's mom (this is pretty natural for EII, though). When kid, they both (mom and daughter) lived this kind of "lie" where both pretended that the kid was in the same quadra, this friend and I became best friends and her mom projected the guilt in me and his ex (both her conflictors), about everything wrong between her and her daughter. Then, she moved from people who were "guilty" of the stuff she didn't like in her daughter (when I changed from school and her ex had a new baby), to "influencing negatively" in her (lol, yeah, negatively with opposite quadra values) , till, at some point in the EII teen years, her mom finally accepted her kid was different and started living her conflict with her openly (her home was always full of conflict and all these crazy females yelling at each other, this EIE mom had later problems with her probably SEI middle daughter and the SEI left home and married to some random dude). I see as recurrent pattern passive aggression in kids towards their parents, and compulsive eating (mb due emotional over-eating and the feeling of lack of love). Most of the ppl in Alpha or Delta didn't accepted my friend or didnt accepted her "openly" or as "intimate" friend, because she's this kind of hybrid and grew up with a bunch of complexes which at some point or another interfere in most of her ITRs.Is it possible that the parent is conflicted and transfers that to the child without necessarily being a conflictor?
I'd suggest making them some tests in case you are interested in getting rid of doubts.And if so, there comes the question of where did it begin.
I have thought of having a conflictor parent, but sometimes I wonder if they aren't just conflicted.
Sometimes, I wonder how much I may be fooling myself over all this.
At the end of the day, who cares? I feel much better when I don't care, that's for sure.
Last edited by Mila; 05-03-2019 at 10:19 PM.
All happy families are alike, every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.
BTW, my ESI sis was surrounded by a conflictor dad and a benefactor/semi-dual mum growing up, she was more attached to my dad, they actually look and think alike, I've always been jello of their relationship, but they can't stay together for more than 2 hours without getting into some heated fights, but that's what my sister is like with everyone (conflictor imprinting in her brain?), she fights with everyone if they do something she doesn't agree with, which especially escalates with the people she's closest to, since with friends she's quite normal, despite she's called "ballbreaker" even among them. BTW, probably due to her Se, she's always managed to make out something of all that she was feeling, she's climbed walls and mountains to get what she wanted.. I really admire how tough she is.
I went on a date with an ESI where we talked for eight hours and really got along well. But she pointed out this guy on the lake who VI'd SLI and said she thought he looked really good. I asked to see a picture of her father, and he VI'd SLI. Her description of him also agreed with SLI.
I asked to see her again, and she basically told me that I talk too much and my taciturn and avoidant SLI son is way hotter. I told her to go for it and let me know how it turns out.
Family imprinting strikes again. She's 42 and never been married.
Is there some kind of "help" or way to fix or improve the life of ppl who grew up in these kind of environment (without taking other ITRs as solution for s/he)?
If their problems are a result of no one needing them to be the people whom they actually are, but rather wanting them to be some other person, then what fix other than ITR would there be?
Yes, but what happens when different ITRs are not possible because these ppl are now this"hybrid" and other ppl from their own quadras don't accept them simply because they have been taught into opposite quadras for too long? Or when these ppl is not even wanting/looking to change from environment? I mean, I'm not talking about what externally can be done but what kind of focus this person can get to change or what options besides "go get your dual" would help. Duality is not the perfect solution to everything (as is not always achievable), and there are huge chances of not dualizing in life. But there's always a way to get better.
I think something like this happened to me. I am a Gamma NT raised by Delta ST's with a Delta ST sister and an Alpha NT sister. Basically, I was born into a world where Delta values were the only good values. My parent's white colonial house, full of Queen Anne furniture, a crystal chandelier and tchotchkes everywhere, was supposed to be the height of good taste, and it was constantly drilled into me that Feelers were all incomprehensibly stupid. I ended up marrying a person of the same type as my father.
This has caused me to be a very screwed up individual. However, I've recently been hanging out with duals and Activities and Identicals and Mirrors and gradually, little by little, I'm changing my values. It's a long slog, though.
Really, that article I linked above says it all. Just hang out with people who need you to be exactly who you are, and you can grow into yourself and get more confidence that your strengths really are strengths and not flaws, as you might have been taught.
(Why does this sound like advice for people who are coming out?)
*EDIT* If you really want a personal answer to your question, ask Olimpia. Her father is her Conflictor.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 05-04-2019 at 12:52 PM.
@Balckberry by test, do you mean socionics test or whatnot? because I did a ton of those and I get varying results that are more funny than helpful at this point.I like doubting things anyway.
I guess, without the luck of random same quadra intereactions, a person might be able to find a place within themselves where they reject what was taught to them to make place for their own truth, but this isn't a ten step trip that can be done over the weekend. Even people who grew up in same quadra environment can be messed up inside. As it is said, duality doesn't grant a good relationship, many more factors play. Most people aren't free of inner conflict.
One has to want to find this place and strive for it at the same time as being patient and open minded.
I think love/understanding is the cure to everything... and with that I don't mean "ITR best match", aha...
I wish someone could say "I love you even if you're my conflictor", that's when you know it's real, ideally what we should achieve (and I think many parents have this feeling going on).
Does the 3w9 typing stem from the same idea?It does, but that is because I would rather not have people immediately judge me based on a type that my profile says. AND it gives people an excuse to talk to me, which is also nice.
----- FarDraft, 2020
I grew up with a single parent ESE mother but she was unhealthy, gave me lots of anxiety, now she is much better. I have not been around too many other Alphas until recently I married my dual who has many Alpha friends.
Anyway, I'd imagine it to be stifling. I just bought a bike from an ESI today and the process made me feel dead inside. My husband didn't talk to her much which is kinda weird as he is talkative and was just looking around the store, commenting on the products and annoying me, which he always does when I feel suppressed for some reason.
One is in a relatively good situation when type or quadra differences are the only issues; imagine being raised with substance abuse, violence, mental issues, abandonment, racism and or poverty - all of which are not type related and not mentioning the other destructive baggage that people can pick up over their lifetimes.
a.k.a. I/O
Last edited by Rebelondeck; 05-04-2019 at 12:03 PM.
I grew up with an unhealthy 2 ESE Mother who basically tried to fix me my whole life.
Have been told I was ill since ever, my giftedness has been misdiagnosed for every Illness imaginable, I spent my childhood on stimulants and abuse, my youth between psychic wards and youth welfare.
Good thing for me that there was youth welfare and psychic wards around, so i was able to gain a lot of psychological knowledge about myself and able to deal with trauma in a productive way.
Without the support structures i would be dead by now, or at least a loser at my hardest times may even a killer.
It took me until my early twenties to realise that i'm neither autistic, have adhd or borderline but am just highly intelligent.
Funny thing, a semi dual EII Psychatrist came up with the idea that i had borderline made me believe that for more than a year.
Socionics and knowledge about high IQ helped me a lot, also the company of same Quadra people.
I thought that nobody was alike me because i was just to smart, which is true to a high extent but Gamma SFs are still cool af and chill to hang out with.
What happened to was that I thought all women would be like Alpha SFs and began to hate their guts.
Having had an abusive Relationship with an IEE did not help ether.
I just hated those things and at some point would even have sided with the Muslims in the culture war just to strip them off their rights.
Since i know socionics i have a better way to deal with people again, maybe i am autistic but now i just know what to expect from whom, and i do know that ESIs do exist and there is something else than corrupted fi creative or fe in women.
Also i do think culture in the western world is heavily anti-Se, they really do hurt Se valuing people by telling them that they were wrong and putting them on stimulants, a lot of the Se- Valuing people i know have mental health issues.
So basically growing up with a conflicted super ego mother really messed me up, i somehow turned out fine anyways but it was far from easy and quite an achievement.
I'm sorry to hear, that sounds like a rough upbringing. You seem to have come out strong though. Keep pushing, life will reward your hard work and persistence. Mental health is a beautiful thing to achieve, which I strive for everyday too.
Interesting you mention the western world is anti-se.. can you elaborate what you mean by that?
Thank you very much, what i see is that Se and maybe masculinity in general is being pathologized, if you don't sit still and obey what the authorities tell you they will say that you have ADHD and put you under medication.
I think our whole Culture is so strongly delta and alpha dominated that many people are told to be ashamed of their aggressive tendencies and that they should suppress them.
You can also see it with all of this #Metoo stuff where Se ego sexuality even gets criminalized.
Maybe it's Christianity with their other cheek or denazification which is translated into some kind of catharsic decolonisation for non axis countries.
From early on boys are told that aggression, force, violence and even masculinity as a whole is bad, they don't get any kind of healthy relation to Se behaviour in real-life so they get it sublimated and mostly paired with shallow materialism and moral decay in rap music, at least that's my impression.
Last edited by Mila; 12-17-2020 at 01:01 AM.
My parents are gamma irrational duals. They love each other. They love their kids. What's there to know?
I mean my father was SEE. Every time he had to go to the doctor he would much rather me be by his side because I am a thorough person who gets all the information and because of that I can cleverly figure out what to do in an affective manner. I sensed an overwhelming pain in my father during his last two days of life (he has high pain tolerance and usually can not sense his own pain maybe it was Si ignoring). I sensed it and begged to take him to the emergency room where the emergency room doctor came to speak to me in private saying "your father is in critical condition, it is best that we keep him comfortable now." You couldn't believe how hard I had to fight to keep my tears back. I had to because I didn't want to alarm my mom who was with us. They transferred him to a hospital bed and on our way my father pulled me close to him and kissed me on my forehead. It was the last kiss from him. I knew he was saying goodbye and I knew exactly what he would trust me to do which was to take care of everyone. He knew I would do it because all this talk about EII not having strength and will doesn't mean we are not brave and clever and capable to providing for our loved ones. I value a lot of things my father did for me as a parent, a teacher, a guide.
The only areas where we actually crashed were when my father would cook up a storm for all his social events I hated cleaning and he would leave me no choice but to do the clean up. I am like my dual rather to ourselves and my father just loved socializing. We would have a different group of people over every darn week and I hated it. I was the intellectual kid who had thousands of books and did not want people around. But, my father was a social butterfly. He had to have friends and family and people over all the time. Our communication was almost on a subconscious level too. I couldn't really share my thoughts with him but knew he knew what was going on because he was that perceptive. He loved fashion. My father purchased such nice expensive suits. He looked so good and he would order us to take a shower hahah his senses were so aware. He loved good food, he loved nice clothes, he loved smelling good, and he loved giving us experiences with road trips and socializing with many people. I would wear shoes for 10 years and he would look at them and say "when are you going to get new shoes? when are you going to get a new outfit?" lol I didn't care for material world.
There are crashes between people of the same quad. It's a lot of factors that determine conflict, even their own upbringing not necessarily exchange of functions.
My father obviously loved me because at the doctor's office one day he looks at me and said "I wanted 5 daughters my WIFE she ONLY WANT 2"
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 05-04-2019 at 04:41 PM.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
@Itsme
unhealthy super ego relations in family are awful. Some delta NF can be pretty misleading/hoaxers, one should be careful with that. It even appears in the Quadra Complex. I'll never ever let one of them to guide me on anything related to mental or physical health, lol
Last edited by Mila; 05-04-2019 at 05:08 PM.
tests have always worked fine for me and for the ppl around me.@Balckberry by test, do you mean socionics test or whatnot? because I did a ton of those and I get varying results that are more funny than helpful at this point.
tbh, I've seen other LIEs experiencing romantic problems and I don't think all of them are related to parental figures. I think the configuration of LIE is not particularly great for romance (in general). I just think (1DFi and 1DSi) give LIE some plasticity in relationships, this along with Te (practicality) and Ni (forecasting) complete the master piece. I think ILE and LII can have similar problems.
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