I'm sure each function is curious in its own way. There's plenty of stuff I'm curious about but I'm not sure if I'm an intellectually curious person, unless the subject matter happens to align with my interests. I can imagine any type being curious.
I'm sure each function is curious in its own way. There's plenty of stuff I'm curious about but I'm not sure if I'm an intellectually curious person, unless the subject matter happens to align with my interests. I can imagine any type being curious.
Geez, this has also been the impression I get. It sucks for SEIs, but...hey thanks for your feedback, anyways.Originally Posted by silke
Yeah that's one decent strategy, if it works out where your dual ends up seeing you for your natural personality and valuing you for it, before too long.That's one way to draw a dual's attention to yourself - is to temporarily act like them and mirror their behavior. A lot of people get stuck on the notion that their ideal match is someone who is like them, and while duals are alike in many ways they don't immediately show this as the dual-seeking functions are subconscious. So once you show this, you'll get their attention.
But atm, if I have to act more like an ILE than is healthy for me, in order to get my dual's attention, I'm about ready to say "forget it". I know an IEI-SLE couple that formed this way, with the IEI acting all tough and competitive. Basically stroking the SLE's ego with a mirror image of himself all the time. I wonder how draining it must've been for her. The SLE was always ranting about how he loved strong, competitive, logically intelligent, competent women. Like the traditional female gender role was beneath him, and he wanted to see someone who embodied the same qualities he prized in himself instead. It seemed narcissitic, and I actually felt bad for her.
But yeah personally, I don't want to end up in a relationship like that. I've already learned that a big part of me really desires a partner with NT talents--despite the humbling it took to become self-aware in that area. I've also learned to use intuition and thinking to such a degree that I get mistaken for an NT on occasion - I explore new theories and possibilities, and analyze systems that interest me, on my own. I'm not that bad at Ne/Ti. It's good to develop that part of your type, both for connecting better with your dual, and for self-actualization. I'd rather have an ILE who has already gone through the same humbling process, and who has learned to use Si and Fe decently, or at least wants to. I don't want to set the precedence that we're both Ne and Ti, while shoving SF things under the rug
I didn’t misinterpret you, you explained yourself wrong the first time and had to go back and correct your post.
I notice that you didn’t answer or comment on any other of my comments about your flawed/lacking arguments and my touching upon your flippant way of responding to some others in spite of them.
Actually, it was that combined with the fact that, lucky for you, I had read that part of the article recently before that and it was still fresh in my memory. So your false statement about Ne stood out really blatantly to me and I just couldn’t help myself.
There is a difference between knowledge and fan facts.
I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I still think Ne is related to having a "broad knowledge base." Speaking of myself, specifically, I cannot follow an interest if it is only further repetitive, with the main pattern(s) not changing at all. That sounds extremely dull and uninteresting. Ne users do seek out several different interests, which contributes to their "broad knowledge base" - even if it isn't "deep" as you claimed - though I would argue that Ne is complemented by other function(s) that certainly deepen the understanding to a satisfactory level for the Ne user.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree...
But yes, repetitiveness sounds really dreary and is probably an anathema to most Ne users. I just can't do it. I can't. I cannot follow something if it doesn't interest me anymore. Perhaps SX is involved in this as well (not because I am SX dominant, or anything like that, but because the Sexual instinct is often the "driving force" if you will, when it comes to what many people spend most of their energy on, in general).
Just because you visited a Auto parts store and learned about your engine doesn’t make you knowledgeable in automechanics.
This is what squark is alluding to. Knowing a little bit of everything doesn’t make you knowledgeable in everything.
I'm fairly confident that I'm currently with an LSE. There's been nothing that's pointed me away from it. So here are my thoughts based on the assumption that I am in a dual relationship:
1. Entering into their world.
2. Emulating or at least visibly expressing value for the dual's ego functions.
3. Crisis or some sort of external trial that encourages or forces teamwork.
4. Leaning into your own ego functions.
As I hypothesized in the Delta Lounge, I think one helpful way for duals to encounter and then notice each other is for one of them to leave their own comfort zone and enter that of the other. For Deltas, the explorer probably would have to be the Ne-egos (EIIs and IEEs) because the STs seem to tend to find what they like and then stick with it (sometimes for entirely too long).
I met my LSE when I organized a fairly significant hike up a mountain. I enjoy the outdoors, but it's not my comfort zone and hiking a mountain is not something I'd done before. I have done organizing of people, though, so it wasn't entirely unfamiliar. I was looking to increase my level of physical fitness as well as literally expand my horizons.
The group of hikers needed to be a certain size, and some of those who had initially said they'd go dropped out. So one of my friends recommended this one guy as a potential gap-filler. I'd heard his name before by some of our mutual friends, always well-spoken of and he seemed like a reliable person. Plus he had tons of hiking experience and was even a volunteer SAR. So I accepted him as a member of the hiking group.
We had one pre-hike planning meeting (he, our mutual friend, and myself), which is when I first actually met him. I almost immediately determined he was Te-ego, if only because of his amazingly endless patience with my deluge of data- and Te-opinion-gathering questions, lol. When I feel unsteady (as I did with this hike) I become a data glutton and much to my delight he was a fountain of knowledge. For his part, later he commented that he was impressed with my planning prowess, the thoroughness and how I communicated to everyone.
Long story short, while on the hike he ended up needing to rescue me. It was very, very embarrassing to me, and while it strongly highlighted my pathetic Se, my overall response to the situation made a good impression on him.
Later, when we had a chance to debrief, I took the opportunity to try to repay him by active listening and letting him unravel the feeling side of things. I figured if he was indeed LSE then Fi would be a nice gift. I don't think he realized at the time what exactly was happening, but after that conversation was easy and he started seeming to seek it out.
It was a few months before we started dating, but that entire experience put us into contact and definitely put me into his awareness. Without it, he probably still wouldn't know me and I'd only know of him (and probably just admire from afar).
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
@Minde you shared some really really good advice, thank you
Congratulations on your dual relationship!!
*currently thinking of where in town I can go to meet ILEs in their element*
For sure. Still, we all know those Ne types of any colour who arrive on the scene a little out of their depth. (As all people can yes yes yes we get it) aka: I read a book once and now Im basically a pro.
Did you spend the hundred practise hours in highschool math learning the material? Boring, but necessary and also teaches you how to logic your way through problems. Knowledge also comes imo from experience, which isnt something you can just “opportunitize” your way into.
Ugh. You have completely misunderstood what I was saying. What I wrote did not imply that you have to act like an ILE for the duration of your relationship and wear yourself out by acting like another type. This is a leap of imagination that you took entirely out of your own, and it landed into some kind of absurdity. It's a method for drawing the attention of your dual for a short while, which in turn happens naturally from the IEs of the Super-Id block when you find a compatible dual.But atm, if I have to act more like an ILE than is healthy for me, in order to get my dual's attention, I'm about ready to say "forget it". I know an IEI-SLE couple that formed this way, with the IEI acting all tough and competitive. Basically stroking the SLE's ego with a mirror image of himself all the time. I wonder how draining it must've been for her. The SLE was always ranting about how he loved strong, competitive, logically intelligent, competent women. Like the traditional female gender role was beneath him, and he wanted to see someone who embodied the same qualities he prized in himself instead. It seemed narcissitic, and I actually felt bad for her.
But yeah personally, I don't want to end up in a relationship like that. I've already learned that a big part of me really desires a partner with NT talents--despite the humbling it took to become self-aware in that area. I've also learned to use intuition and thinking to such a degree that I get mistaken for an NT on occasion - I explore new theories and possibilities, and analyze systems that interest me, on my own. I'm not that bad at Ne/Ti. It's good to develop that part of your type, both for connecting better with your dual, and for self-actualization. I'd rather have an ILE who has already gone through the same humbling process, and who has learned to use Si and Fe decently, or at least wants to. I don't want to set the precedence that we're both Ne and Ti, while shoving SF things under the rug
I would also question the typings in the IEI-SLE dual pair you're describing. It doesn't match my experience with my duals and sounds nothing like any of the IEI-SLE couples that I've seen. The IEI does not overtly compete with the SLE for rather obvious reasons, and if those were the conclusions that you have drawn, it shows that you really didn't understand the dynamic there.
It seems to me like you have misread me. Yes, I got your original meaning. I just don't like using that tactic personally, that's all I was getting at. I am a little frustrated right now by the way people tend to overlook I-p temperaments, and I may have seemed like I was directing that frustration at you instead. I apologize, if this is the case.
You did not get my "original meaning" which is why I posted that you have completely misunderstood what I have said. And, apparently, you didn't even care to understand.
Which you know, at this point your self-centered attitude is not making it worthwhile to respond to your posts.
I feel like I've made a mistake in friending you and I have unfriended you from my account on this site.
You're free to direct your frustration elsewhere.
I understood, you were talking about mimicking one's dual for a short amount of time to attract their attention. You may like idea, and maybe it works for some, and if so that's great. I don't have to feel the same way about it, and you cannot expect me to agree with you. You are free to unfriend me and think whatever you want about me.
Lolz sorry squark. Ok then you’re right. I’m still too lazy to check that right now but I’ll take your word for it.
I think I sometimes mimic my dual to attract their attention.
I've associated with several duals, and the only ones who responded to me as an LIE were one I talked to twice a week for over a year, and another who is recently married to a guy who might be an LIE. Almost all the other ESI's whom I meet initially seem uninterested in me.
However, I have noticed that a couple of the ESI's I like (from a distance, unfortunately) seem to be attracted to SLE's and SLI's. I figured, What the hell, I can imitate an SLE for a short time. I got myself a black shirt, gray jeans and sneakers, and a nice leather jacket, put on the mindset of "Fuck the world, I'm coming though" and I was actually approached by an ESI who cleared a space at a table I was near and asked me if I needed a space to set my stuff down?
So now that I know that strategy works, I'm wondering if it is worth connecting with females who are at a point in their development where they are looking for an Identical rather than a Dual, and I'm leaning toward "No".
@silke After thinking it over, I've realized that I should have shown more appreciation and gratitude for your response to my thread. You had a lot of constructive input. I didn't mean to be so rude and dismissive (I was in a 'trouble-shooting' mode of thinking) but I see now that my response was inconsiderate - and selfish. I am sorry, and I thank you for your advice and input on here.
That’s good : ) What I said is in the literature and I’ve noticed it as well.
At this point it seems like our individual values and social interaction styles are too incompatible. I will refrain from responding to your threads in the future, since it looks like we cannot achieve an understanding.
@silke what the fuck
the fuck in what, guess you deleted the "sorry" which i don't mind
Lol. Ok BBL
Why are you apologizing? silke was the one who randomly lashed out at you for no reason...
She hasn't. I have.
A person who is lashing out their frustrations on you when you're trying to contribute is clearly not a friend.
There were reasons, no need to be so arrogant and dismissive.
Cookies. Chocolate Chip.
With Nuts
@Venus Rose and @thehotelambush I appreciate your support. I just think it was rude of me, to write so much about how I didn't like the idea Silke was suggesting, without showing more appreciation for her input (especially since I'm asking for feedback in this thread). @silke However, it was not my intent to criticize you personally. But, if you don't want to talk with me anymore, that's fine. Maybe you're right about how we don't have enough in common social-style-wise.
I'm happy you found it helpful!@Minde you shared some really really good advice, thank you
Congratulations on your dual relationship!!
*currently thinking of where in town I can go to meet ILEs in their element*
One thing I think is important is that when you do venture outside of your comfort zone that it's something you genuinely want to do independent of if you find a dual who sticks around. Like my hike up the mountain was something I decided I wanted to do for myself because I felt it would be good for me.
This is good on a number of levels including 1) if it doesn't "work out" you still have had fun and 2) you become a more well-rounded person.
I think it's less that you become an identical and more that you visibly demonstrate your value for their values. Like you may not be "good" at doing the things they do naturally, but if you practice striving for the same goals you do gain some proficiency at least in bursts, and I think that's appealing to a dual.
For example, kindness is a huge deal for me in terms of people I like. I could be around the most efficient, comfort-making person and yet if they are unkind it's a huge turn off. (In fact, I might even sabotage them...) One of the big things that drew me to my LSE was his thoughtfulness and consideration toward everyone around him. He's not always "good" at it, and he even has said multiple times that he feels it's a weakness of his, that he has to consciously think about how his actions and words affect others' feelings, but he values people's well-being a lot and so he tries. And I can see that and it draws me to him.
As someone mentioned earlier, a lot of people have an idea in their minds of the type of person they want, and often it's a very similar version of themselves (only more perfect, lol). But it's not what's best, or even better. Once you're around someone who values the same things you do and yet has complementary strengths the ideal can shift a bit.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
I never felt SLEs were too good for me, if anything it was kind of the opposite, they were among the few types that I felt I was above in this weird way (and that in turn gave me confidence and made me feel good about myself) - like idk how to explain it, kind of like... they looked up to me in ways. Sort of like wanting me to guide them in a sense because I protected their poor hurt Fi. But then I do think what Viktor said was accurate about how both types looked up to each other too much and then found out it wasn't reality just a romantic illusion type of thing. But reality sucks and is harsh and cold and grimdark, nothing wrong with once in awhile feeling the romantic haze. =D
In general I do sense how society, especially American society values an overbearing extroverted str8 businessman over a shy quiet artistic ******, sure. (And I suppose sometimes it hurts my feelings because I sense that I'm not what is mainly wanted- esp. for a male.) But that's more like in the general sense and not really dual specific.
I do think IEIs get crushes way too easily, though it's not because we are naive morally perfect angels like some people think (we're not EIIs or SEIs) - it's because we secretly hate most ppl and wish a piano would fall on their heads. But we lack the Se/Te to get that point across, and we manipulatively can act like better people than we are with other functions. So yeah, then when we do finally meet somebody we don't loathe, we can get too excited and idealistic.
ILE/SLE is good balancing force for us, cuz they accept people more neutrally.
I often feel like SLEs are too busy for me. Like irl they always seem to be doing something very important or going some place they really have to be.
I myself am never busy. Even when I'm doing something important I'm not busy.
At work there is an SLE that always come to shake my hand even if I am on the phone or working on something.
When I was at school there were an SEE and an SLE that would always shout my name out of nowhere from afar even though I was talking to somebody else. It fascinated me.
From my end I just wouldn't dare to come and disturb them like that. They seem to be so impactful whatever they are doing that I don't want to get in the way of that. I would rather leave them with other serious people and do my thing on my own.
I wouldn't say that I feel like they are too good for me though. It just makes me feel like we are not made to get along so well.
extraverts notice introverts like anyone
people with good IR give a sympathy and interest, by nonverbal, by behavior
Lol.
So I've experienced ppl who I thought were "too good for me" but them actually being nice and emotionally available didn't make me think less of them. If anything, it made me feel like they were even more too good for me. I didn't like too much of the brash energy b/c it made it harder for me to take up space.
Not an IEI, just my perspective as an IxFx.
@Viktor thanks so much for your feedback! It's good to hear an Exxp type's perspective on this, and know that it's not only we introverts who sometimes feel a little intimidated by our duals
And your last post made me think - What ages were the IEIs you were talking about (that lost interest in you once you opened up emotionally)?
That's something that I might have done as a teenager when I was more unhealthy and anxious. But not anymore, now I feel even more drawn in by a guy who opens up his heart to me. I don't know why it sometimes turned me off when I was younger, maybe I just already felt too vulnerable and insecure, and dealing with any more emotional softness on top of that just made me uncomfortable D:
But at any rate, I'd think you should be able to be your whole self, eventually (including emotional vulnerabilities) with your dual - it doesn't seem healthy or fulfilling otherwise. I'm not IEI, but my heart softens when Fi-PoLR types seek help with their Fi and Fe from me - I feel like it's a privilege when a normally closed-off logical sort of person decides to trust me with their feelings. IEIs have demonstrative Fi too, so it seems like they should feel similarly.
If any IEIs would like to confirm/contradict this, go right ahead~
SEI back peddling classics.
Translation : " Here's all the things I can do, and then there's your....thing.....that you do....what do you do again?
As far as any success attracting the extroverted dual, I just used my creative function Ne and it works out.
The prime skill of the EII: the cosmic accident (and the comic accident). Everything was going as planned, and then...Ne!
I don't know what you mean but.......thanks?
@Viktor Ohhh that's interesting, it would have really bothered me if my partner wanted me to be more stoic, or if my partner never ended up feeling like he could open up to me about his feelings 100%. But if you're happy with keeping up the hero character and holding back your feelings, then more power to you. It seems like you and these IEI girls you mentioned compliment each other.I think you shouldn't get feely with them until you've won them over, and even then you gotta be careful, because I do think they need us to be a hero, which is fine by me because I prefer not to get feely in the first place. Them believing in me actually makes me feel more powerful, so it's almost better if I just keep being amazing and they can reinforce the belief, idk.
Ohh thank you, yes this is encouraging in a way
Demonstrating appreciation for their values - yes I like this.I think it's less that you become an identical and more that you visibly demonstrate your value for their values. Like you may not be "good" at doing the things they do naturally, but if you practice striving for the same goals you do gain some proficiency at least in bursts, and I think that's appealing to a dual.
Yes I've seen some LSEs who are quite rude, and others who try very hard to be kind and considerate, whether or not they are good at it. It's definitely better to be around the one who is trying > the one who doesn't seem to care. I'd imagine it'd be an even bigger difference to an EII. It's nice to see your dual try to uphold your own values, definitely.For example, kindness is a huge deal for me in terms of people I like. I could be around the most efficient, comfort-making person and yet if they are unkind it's a huge turn off. (In fact, I might even sabotage them...) One of the big things that drew me to my LSE was his thoughtfulness and consideration toward everyone around him. He's not always "good" at it, and he even has said multiple times that he feels it's a weakness of his, that he has to consciously think about how his actions and words affect others' feelings, but he values people's well-being a lot and so he tries. And I can see that and it draws me to him.
Ironically this is actually how I learned to value ILEs romantically, by seeing one who tried to use Si and Fe well on his own, as well as his naturally strong Ne and Ti. It felt like "yes, that's the kind of person I want. How did I never see this before?!?"As someone mentioned earlier, a lot of people have an idea in their minds of the type of person they want, and often it's a very similar version of themselves (only more perfect, lol). But it's not what's best, or even better. Once you're around someone who values the same things you do and yet has complementary strengths the ideal can shift a bit.
It means EIIs are great at breaking situational continuity. Ne is all about accidents. Unconscious intent and belief. It works through forgetfulness and seeming mistakes.
Woops. Hey, look what I found!
Unconsciously, they are the best predictors of the future. So they don't really have to think about it.
Last edited by Aramas; 12-10-2018 at 06:08 PM.
Could you explain more what you mean by that? I am curious about your point of view.
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