Ne-LII?
Ben Shapiro
Ne-LII?
This is probably a good video to type from, imo:
i threw him in the gamma thread. Initial impression was definitely LII, but I think i was a bit biased based on his persona and demeanor. Thoughts now are Gamma NT though his Ti seems 4D to me which obviously makes me lean ILI. Also looks a bit like Max Born who is benchmarked as ILI. One thing that drew me away from Ni dom, initially, was the lack of the 'out of the moment' vibe, but honestly im not sure Ni doms even have that in many cases.
A lot of his developed thought (like his books and lectures) centers around breaking down the thought process/method of argumentation of his opponents and developing a way to combat the arguments. Makes me think Tactician over Strategist in Reinin based on that. Also, when he argues he has a fairly extensive body of knowledge and leans on it without going past it. He is very attentive to the logic formulation involved in his arguments and, though he is pretty aggressive, he is quick to concede when he is wrong or when he sees a fair point. While our personalities and demeanor are fairly different, after watching enough videos I started to see a few parallels in the way we think/general cognition. I think ILI and LIE are the best options (still ILI seems a bit better), but he could still be something like LII. I just think Te ego is more likely.
Last edited by Contra; 03-27-2016 at 05:20 AM.
mb INTJ
LII I guess
He's a P type
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Him IQmogging some college student. I'm pro-choice but he seems pretty alpha intellectually.
updated: LII-Ne (3w4 sx/sp, NA type)
What's clear from his quotes is that Shapiro is a "Static" type. He characterizes things by their static qualities: "Democrats are..." "Putin is..." "our lifestyle is ..." and so on. Reminds me of Jordan Peterson, another LII, no wonder that they agree on so many issues and have a similar kind of mindset. Even though he's in his mid-30s he still makes a youthful boyish impression, which hints at a "child-like" type with pronounced Ne.
When I was a kid, I'd wake up extraordinarily early every morning and turn on the television, scanning for episodes of 'The Jetsons.' For some reason, I loved the notion of a future where there would be flying cars, supercomputers, and most of all, robot maids to take care of the chores. - Ben Shapiro
Freedom of speech and thought matters, especially when it is speech and thought with which we disagree. The moment the majority decides to destroy people for engaging in thought it dislikes, thought crime becomes a reality. - Ben Shapiro
When Americans are faced with the prospect that they can never earn their way to wealth, they have two choices: to rebel against the system, or to settle into depressed complacency. - Ben Shapiro
Having children truly ends adolescence. We are all either parents or children: responsibility-takers or those who demand from others. - Ben Shapiro
Every time we rock our babies in the night, we bring order back to a disordered world. Every time we look down at our children and cry, we make the world one shade brighter. That's what children do to us - and for us. - Ben Shapiro
The European style of living is seductive: fewer hours worked, more hours at the cafe, less concern over self-betterment. But that style of living does not produce a purposeful life. - Ben Shapiro
When we say 'less fortunate,' we generally mean the poor rather than the disabled, who actually are less fortunate. In truth, the poor are generally 'less fortunate' only in terms of genetics. They are certainly not less fortunate in the amount of help they receive. - Ben Shapiro
'Noah' doesn't merely get the story wrong; like all Biblical adaptations, it's bound to do that (although some aspects of the film are out and out ridiculous). It gets the morality of the story wrong, and in the process turns God into Gaia and morality into radical deep green environmentalism. - Ben Shapiro
Last edited by silke; 01-29-2019 at 01:24 AM.
ISTJ
ESE
Agree. Creative-Te.Originally Posted by Contra
This is exactly right; he doesn’t have an original thought in his body; rather, he’s an ideological spokesperson for the whatever-you-want-to-call-whatever-movement-this-is. He’s like the human version of those dinosaurs that can puff out those colorful frills and then you realize they’re tiny and have nothing to actually say. He’s like what Tom Cruise is to L. Ron, except his L. Ron is whatever conservative political figure he encountered at the formative age of 13 when he realized he could impress people, and thereby feel a sense of contribution, via his forceful parroting of the cause.
You can tell this an alpha form of Fe because of its obvious character of holding “public executions.” Its his way of enforcing and taking on the offense the underlying Ti constructions generated by the relatively invisible and retiring LIIs and ILEs who provided for him all his underlying premises (which were likely in turn generated by beta far upstream). Because of their general cloisteredness, especially in comparison to such a self-promoting figure, people make the mistake of thinking these thoughts are his own.
Generally ESEs are most productive in entertainment, so it would be tempting to think maybe he’s wasting his talent. Then you realize the youtube/foxnews/facebook/podcast sphere of political discourse is precisely that. Its “politics” in the sense that its “political debate,” which is really just theatre, served up to reinforce psychological perspectives by restating what everyone already believes (+Fe), but in a way that obscures the fundamentally unoriginal, and empty, character of the thing (Ni polr) and emphasizes convincing delivery (+Fe -Si) in response to the collective discomfort such perspectives have recently had to endure, so as to promote comfort in their cultural bubble
His entire spiel is just a gish gallop of talking points in a forum where such a thing has maximum impact and minimal chance of recalcitrance on the merits, which would require a slow and careful analysis rooted in intellectual charity and rigor and not what essentially amounts to a circus… bread and circuses
for what its worth, I feel like you've been amazingly on point lately @pinoline I really enjoy your posts, you even got me to add my 2 cents because I think most people will not see how insightful you're being right now
where the hell have u been? : D
I swear I didnt kno who Ben Shapiro is, just focused on his faces in a video without hearing the audio...
ahhh I'm all getting deep into socion, it's getting unhealthy I must admit.. a heart for your kind words <3
haha yeah that's a way quicker way to get to it, but you know people will bog you down by trying to say things like "lul but his thoughts r so deep and you haven't addressed that--can't be ESE!!", when in fact you cut past all that bullshit. But I wanted to address it before it came up or before people just ignored your insight, never giving it a chance based on their own (ironic under the circumstances) superficial judgement
I'm pretty much over socionics but you're a ray of sunshine, which is why I haven't bothered occupying myself with it for a while but also why I wanted to chime in now
@Bertrand u're a rainbow look at uD
yes sometimes it's better to focus on visual over words (non-verbal language)... but the looks too can be deceiving, tis so hard to tell...
I was just thinking I couldn't care less of what socionics type you are anyway because you're a Leo... but you make the best EII walking over the16types nomatter what
we can open a business partnership now
speak for yourself
I can understand, there's so much depth to socionics, not because of socionics per se, but because of the underlying intuitive patterns that just go deeper and deeper... you can just lose yourself in it... you gotta keep your feet on the ground... I really think its stuff like that that made Nietzsche go crazy etc
I didn't mean to make at a jab at you, think of my words directed at pinoline as being their own little universe and having no relation to anything but us
in other words, maybe your assessment is more correct, more objective, but I feel like me and pinoline are seeing the same thing, however wrong it may be... I don't care. I'm glad it is what it is (pinoline to me) and I feel like I have to acknowledge it, because it gets drowned out way too much and I don't like that about this world
Can't understand LII as a choice, seems pretty much based on superficial ideas about the type. No way this combative guy has anPoLR
Gamma is the real deal. Listen to him using valued, and
here:
Has to be LIE/ILI > SEE/ESI.
(Tremendously like this guy even if I don't agree with everything, he has good pragmatic/factual reasonings. It's the)
My view is ILI-Te or LIE-Te.
He has a very facts/evidence based approach to arguments, and strongly dislikes both Ne and Fe (compare him to Milo Yiannopolos, ILE). Ni is much more likely than Si as an perceiving element, as he's more focused on efficiency than reliability.
on a scale of 1-10 how much do you like ben shapiro and consider him a role model, cuivenen?
Ben Shapiro: ESTj or ISFj?
Last edited by HERO; 01-16-2018 at 08:51 AM.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/01/...r-for-decades/
"Fascism is the system of government that cartelizes the private sector, centrally plans the economy to subsidize producers, exalts the police state as the source of order, denies fundamental rights and liberties to individuals, and makes the executive state the unlimited master of society.
This describes mainstream politics in America today. And not just in America. It’s true in Europe, too. It is so much part of the mainstream that it is hardly noticed anymore.
If fascism is invisible to us, it is truly the silent killer. It fastens a huge, violent, lumbering state on the free market that drains its capital and productivity like a deadly parasite on a host. This is why the fascist state has been called the vampire economy. It sucks the economic life out of a nation and brings about a slow death of a once thriving economy."
I'm going to go with Te-LIE for him. I initially thought Ti-LII, but then the idea of him being extroverted anddominant started to make more sense when I saw more interviews and debates from him.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
God. So many LIE's think they did it all themselves. Born on third base and think they hit a triple.
I remember a discussion I had in high school with the extremely liberal son of the owner of the city newspaper. He was kind of languid and hippy-dippy-ish, a pacifist and extremely smart. Both he and I were in a lot of advanced classes together. He ended up leaving the extremely profitable family business and running a non-profit organization that helped the poor in California.
At the time, we were sitting on the stairs in the part of the high school that was frequented by the football players and the industrial arts students, and I was saying something massively stupid like "What's the point of having all the stupid people in society? Why not just let them fend for themselves? They'd all be dead in a few months. They're just freeloading off the efforts of the smart people."
I, of course, was not in this doomed class by virtue of my hard earned efforts at being born a white male to a lawyer and a teacher in the US of A.
He just looked at me and said, "Someday, you might need their help." And I thought, "I can't imagine any scenario in the known universe where that would happen, but he's a smart guy and I should at least consider what he says."
I was, of course, massively wrong (and worse, I was stupid) as only an LIE-Te can be. Ben Shapiro seems a lot like my seventeen year old self. Why didn't he grow up? Is it the money he gets by shilling for the rich? Or the attention?
Keeping with LII-Ne here.
It's like which type would dream of supercomputer guided robot maids to take care of their chores? Ben Shapiro - "When I was a kid, I'd wake up extraordinarily early every morning and turn on the television, scanning for episodes of 'The Jetsons.' For some reason, I loved the notion of a future where there would be flying cars, supercomputers, and most of all, robot maids to take care of the chores."
Going by subjective impressions - never felt any supervision from him; additionally, I have trouble placing together LIEs and attempts to draw convincing arguments based on the Biblical 10 commandments. LIEs are usually not this deeply religious, though of course there may be exceptions. Ben Shapiro - "Socialism violates at least three of the Ten Commandments: It turns government into God, it legalizes thievery and it elevates covetousness. Discussions of income inequality, after all, aren't about prosperity but about petty spite. Why should you care how much money I make, so long as you are happy?"
I used to do the same thing. There was one episode where the family was flying around and they were all playing cards or something while the car flew itself. I thought, "Wow! What a great idea!"
Even then, I knew that it was the idea of the possible that is important. The implementation can eventually follow when technology catches up. But having the idea....That's what is important.
I also liked the sliding sidewalks. I'm still waiting for the signs on cars that send messages to other drivers. And my jet pack, of course.
My LSE mother used to say this to us kids. Even then, I thought it was bullshit. Inequality is corrosive.
@silke, are you having trouble associating LIE's with a belief in the Bible? I know an LIE who is a total nutjob about religion. Only one, though.
And have you ever dreamed of your house being overrun by robot maids fulfilling your every physical need? Doesn't sounds like a Se hidden agenda and certainly not something I would wish for myself. With Se you make yourself strive towards the outcomes rather than wish for this kind of convenient life.
What about Shapiro's argument here? How effective are any such arguments made from the Bible from an LIE standpoint?
He happens to be a "child-like" type, and I've noticed the same. Types with pronounced Ne tend to make that youthful impression. Even though he's in his mid-30s he still surprisingly impresses very much like a boy.
I actually would like to have my house cleaned by robots while I'm away. I've even thought of making everything waterproof and just turning on sprinklers in the ceiling once a week. I actually did make my bathroom waterproof. Correction. I could fill it with water up to the electrical outlets and everything would be fine. Except what leaked out under the door. Haven't solved that yet.
I'm all for striving for outcomes, but I hate doing maintenance. I'm redoing my house, and one big goal is to eliminate sources of dust, grease, and tracked-in dirt.
Well, IMO, Biblical logic is often very iffy. The rules are mostly based on experience, which is not the worst guide in the world, but not the best, either. And most of them are aimed at the unquestioned racial survival of a small tribe in the desert, surrounded by enemies and dehumanizing their neighbors in their fight for scarce resources.
The situation has changed radically since then. Resources are plentiful, and those who use the old arguments for the purpose of hoarding resources to themselves are not admitting their very real dependence on others. They are just making a bullshit argument for being selfish.*
Could be. I do think he VI's more LIE than LII. That doesn't mean much, though, given my VI track record.
*To be fair, conservatives like Shapiro are much better at building and supporting a small community of like-minded people than liberals are. I just wish they could expand their definition of tribe to include all humans, and perhaps some other life forms, while they are at it.
This is how I visualize Ben Shapiro.
Spr_4d_319.png
why the fuck did I laugh at this
I watch quite a lot of his stuff. Gamma NT almost certainly. I suspect LIE over ILI.
Ben Shapiro is on friendly terms with Sam Harris (in real life) despite their differing politics and clashes during debates or whatever. I guess Gamma but the waking up early to watch the Jetsons every morning reminds me of LSI for some reason.
He's defo some sort of Te-Fi type >>> Ti-Fe.
ALL of his arguments are fact based and he actively criticises anyone who doesn't consider the facts.
Te ego makes sense. I’m leaning towards LSE.
Lie
He is a typical traditional, uptight LSE. His thinking is not particularly abstract, he's very rigid and literal. Listen to him speak on pop culture or the family, the delta values are evident. He is critical of anything vulgar, aggressive, or animalistic (anti Se). He used to do pop culture song reviews on his show and they're kind of hilarious because he doesn't recognize when someone is being poetic or using figures of speech (Ni polr), also he compares everything to classical music or Frank Sinatra (his Si uses music of the past as the default standard). Him enjoying the Jetsons reminds me of my parents (LSE and SLI) enjoyment of sci-films and Star Trek. They're drawn to those imaginative worlds because of the Ne. Basically he's a sensor but his intelligence and verbal ability make him seem stereotypically intuitive.
Here he criticizes Ariana Grande (ENFJ):
Here he criticizes a rap song by pedantically correcting the grammar rather than speaking on the lyrical meaning:
You're a very introspective person, especially for an LIE. I appreciate that about you. Your posts are always interesting to read.
LIE
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I'm not going to post links of other people bashing him or talk about anything specific, since if the Trump thread taught me anything, most of us already have an opinion about him, regardless of what anyone says or thinks.
But I am going to say that a lot of critical thinkers/critics (which often fit the stereotype of an ILI) find major flaws in his reasoning, conclusions, philosophies, and just general thinking. He's also very obviously defending the conservative stance against a liberal one and painting everything into a political us-vs-them stance. It's possible he's just an LIE just playing on all that crap to make bank $$$. But that kind of thinking doesn't really lend well to Gamma values of individuality and seeing people as individuals over generalizing people and society into overly-simplistic political affiliations. So it seems like a stretch. Plus what kind of LIE would want to be known for putting on such a farce? Is it even all that interesting?
There is this though - https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/commen...gs_type_today/
So apparently he admitted to being ExTJ, but didn't seem to want to talk about whether he was N or S, saying he couldn't remember which one he was... I think that says a lot about his kind of thinking, given that the N/S divide is probably the most interesting and complex and someone who is more of an intuitive thinker would probably have a lot to say about it. But he didn't.
Androgynous Robot Dreamer - Not really human, but good at pretending.
God...I'd swear it was a satire or something, but he seems so sincere about it all...he's like an old man complaining about what the newer generations are into.
Androgynous Robot Dreamer - Not really human, but good at pretending.
LIE-Te
It's like almost everything he says is extroverted logic. Facts facts facts, data data data, so forth.
If he's logically inconsistent, it's because of Ti Ignoring, not Sensing.
He lacks the physicality, embodiment of 4D Se. His mind works at a rapid-fire speed, his conceptualizations and fast rhetorical clap-backs are typical of high extroversion coupled with 4D Ne.
Also, like a stereotypical extrovert, he has a higher energetic current and talks loudly and fast.
Deserving something. Interesting statement. Does "deserve" in the end only mean interactional determinism with the world? This claim implies stilting the statement towards personally beneficial end result.
From what I gather is that it contains lots of elements of contradiction that never truly raises to a surface just by starting from group cohesion.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
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