View Poll Results: Who is the best vote?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Jeb Bush

    2 3.57%
  • Ben Carson

    1 1.79%
  • Chris Christie

    0 0%
  • Ted Cruz

    4 7.14%
  • Carly Fiorina

    1 1.79%
  • Jim Gilmore

    0 0%
  • Lindsey Graham

    0 0%
  • Mike Huckabee

    1 1.79%
  • Bobby Jindal

    1 1.79%
  • John Kasich

    0 0%
  • George Pataki

    0 0%
  • Rand Paul

    1 1.79%
  • Marco Rubio

    0 0%
  • Rick Santorum

    0 0%
  • Donald Trump

    13 23.21%
  • Hillary Clinton

    7 12.50%
  • Martin OMalley

    1 1.79%
  • Bernie Sanders

    24 42.86%
  • Other - Independent

    0 0%
  • Other - Green

    2 3.57%
  • Other - Libertarian

    2 3.57%
  • Other - Other

    0 0%
  • Suck it

    11 19.64%
  • I made an extra option

    2 3.57%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 21 of 22 FirstFirst ... 11171819202122 LastLast
Results 801 to 840 of 850

Thread: 2016 US Election

  1. #801
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,936
    Mentioned
    1612 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat1776 View Post
    This election has probably increased racism by 20x what it used to be.
    I think this election has increased the expression of racism by 20x, by making it OK to express. The racism was always there, and will be, until each individual decides that prejudiced racism is an unacceptable diminishment of another human's rights, because that which diminishes one person, diminishes everyone.

    I believe the idea that what hurts one person hurts everyone is the basis of the morality in the New Testament of the Bible. In the Old Testament, the rule was, an eye for an eye. The New Testament is new because it says, if everyone takes an eye for an eye, soon everyone will be blind.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 12-05-2016 at 12:51 AM.

  2. #802
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    601
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've already given my exhaustive response to this alleged 'rampant racism'. If you want to discuss this than go read / quote what's already been said, I am in no mood to repeat it.

    I've been called racist at least 100 times at this point. Infact a guy I just got high with started implying I was a racist and started lecturing me about it. Seems like everyone is racist these days. Would you consider me a racist? The claim all throughout has been that Trumps supporters are by and large racist. Is that the claim you're making?

    Not sure why you're quoting the New Testament at me, thought you said you were an Atheist.

  3. #803
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,936
    Mentioned
    1612 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat1776 View Post
    I've already given my exhaustive response to this alleged 'rampant racism'. If you want to discuss this than go read / quote what's already been said, I am in no mood to repeat it.

    I've been called racist at least 100 times at this point. Would you consider me a racist? The claim all throughout has been that Trumps supporters are by and large racist. Is that the claim you're making?
    Crazedrat1776, I don't think End is racist, and I haven't read enough of your writing to have formed an opinion one way or the other in your case. I think you might be jumping to conclusions, if you were addressing my comments above.

  4. #804
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    601
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ok, well I've already posted a response to your quotation of me & your statement, we had a long discussion about this way back in the thread.
    Clearly you aren't willing to back up what you say, but that's alright. I don't think End is racist either, but I am not certain. He has said some things which definitely appear racist. But I think he is caught up in a role, created by our political climate, where he is playing the role of a racist. He does need to get his head straight. I'd like to hear from End actually

  5. #805
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    291
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Can we stop pretending end isn't just a run of the mill racist yet? I called it? You're welcome.
    End is a fuckboy.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  6. #806
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,891
    Mentioned
    221 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    If you like "Western" civilization and all its fruits then you ought to care. If you celebrate the end of "White" people, well, let me tell ya that your progeny will never, EVER, leave this blue, podunk, backwater rock without a sci-fi ball and chain around their ankles. Tons of smart people out there, but once you see that most major inventions that broke paradigms were the result of "White" people you kinda start to understand the gravity of the situation. If Whitey dies out, you're reduced to one paradigm shift every Millennia. Good luck not getting conquered and enslaved by some xeno empire (that kept its version of "white people" alive and well mind you) given those odds. Just saying y'know...
    I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you, but I am curious about your opinion on a few things. The argument that white people are the most intelligent race tends to be based largely on IQ tests that shows white people having superior IQ compared to blacks, latinos, etc... However, there are several flaws with this mindset, which I will elaborate on.

    First off, east asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans) tend to score higher on IQ tests than white people, but I've noticed that most white supremacists (I'm not saying you are a white supremacist), write this argument off with the fact that white people are more creative and have invented more than east asians. However, there is a deep flaw in that argument because black people are known for being creative and innovative at least in terms of music spawning the basis rock n' roll in the early 20th century from blues and soul, which white artists built off of. So what is the argument then? That white people are both generally creative and intelligent, while east asians are intelligent and generally lacking creativity and blacks are generally creative, but generally lacking in intelligence?

    IQ tests also are heavily left-brained oriented, which is geared towards more logical thinking and less creative type of thinking, which IQ tests don't measure. Let's not forget the fact that most white people like most people of any race are quite mediocre. The only white people that have done anything meaningful in terms of innovation would be labelled as "freaks" to put it bluntly even though the euphemism of genius is often used. Usually possessing the combination of extremely high intelligence with mild autism, which is rare.

    There are plenty of highly intelligent non-autistic people and moderately intelligent mildly autistic people that have done nothing for innovation simply because they were lacking one of the necessary ingredients so they simply contributed to society in their own way, but they did not invent anything truly profound that made a significant impact. People like Nikola Tesla who single handedly invented the 20th century with his numerous innovations are extremely rare and could probably arise from any race under the right conditions.

    Or perhaps only white genes are capable of producing such an individual, but in any case they are extreme outliers and not representative of the entire white race. Anyways, I don't expect white people to go extinct any time soon, there will always be white that prefer to be with whites as any other race, but they will become the minority in the near future, that is certain, but that is a part of globalization that seeks to undermine Western civilization to make room for a new global civilization, which I'm sure you're well aware of. Finally, the term white race is almost subjective and based on semantics.

    What is White? Is it someone that is from a European country? Well, plenty of Southern Europeans (Southern Italians, Southern Spanish, Southern Portuguese and Greeks) have genes that trace back to the Middle East and North Africa. However, they are fully Caucasian as those from the Middle East and North Africa generally are, so does White mean Caucasian or do you have to be 100% European to be White or can someone that is from the Middle East pass as White because he's Caucasian?

    Not all Europeans are pure so to speak so that dwindles the definition to White to those from Northern Europe, but then Greeks and Romans (the most notable ancient White civilizations) saw Europeans from the north as barbarians and uncivilized and too white skinned. Did Greeks and Romans possess genes from the Middle East and North Africa thousands of years or this a recent occurrence?

    What about the Ancient Egypt? Was it a black civilization or an arab civilization or a white civilization? Current Egyptians look arab as most North Africans do, but you hear arguments saying that Ancient Egypt was fully white by some, but there were black pharaohs as well so what was Ancient Egypt ruled by? Blacks? Whites? Arabs? All of the above? Anyways, my point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere, but unfortunately it is very messy and full of holes because there is a ton of grey area that makes things complicated and it's not black and white unfortunately.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  7. #807
    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    the center of the universe
    Posts
    15,828
    Mentioned
    914 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Crazedrat1776, I don't think End is racist, and I haven't read enough of your writing to have formed an opinion one way or the other in your case. I think you might be jumping to conclusions, if you were addressing my comments above.
    "Recessive genes are not necessarily "inferior" as it were. It is often pointed out that Evil has the advantage over Good. This would only be another manifestation of it."

    What the fuck would you need to hear??????

  8. #808
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,936
    Mentioned
    1612 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    "Recessive genes are not necessarily "inferior" as it were. It is often pointed out that Evil has the advantage over Good. This would only be another manifestation of it."

    What the fuck would you need to hear??????
    Jeez, you forced me to go back and read that post.

    OK, I don’t think End is racist in the way that is actually harmful. Rather, as far as I can see, he is just claiming a distinction between races without much personal bias associated with that distinction. I would call this the product of a very logical mind with an imperfect understanding of how this view can negatively impact others. I also think this view is not correct, but it is a view that I shared for many years, based on my family’s views and my own lack of exposure to conflicting views. When I got to the University, my views changed.

    The whole discussion of race is kind of strange. Most geneticists will tell you that race, as a quantifiable measure of humans, doesn’t exist. Sure, there are people with lighter and darker skin, different hair and eye colors, etc, but those things don’t qualify as a guaranteed predictor of “race”.

    Now, there are some things that a geneticist can measure, and one important one is the diversity of genes in a population. Some populations of humans have high genetic diversity, and some have low genetic diversity. This means that some populations are fairly uniform, and some have individuals who vary widely from that population’s “norm”.

    Since genes tend to diversify unless trimmed back by hardship or natural selection, you’d expect the highest genetic diversity to be found in the oldest populations, and that is the case. There are tribes of humans in central Africa which have the highest diversity of any groups on Earth. This means that they have the tallest and shortest humans, the fattest and thinnest humans, the best and worst runners, the best and worst jumpers, and the best and worst thinkers.

    This means that if you were forming a basketball team and wanted a team that was composed of the most extremely well-suited humans for playing basketball, there is a really good chance that most of the team players would come from central Africa. And when racial bias yields to the profit motive of winning games, you find that the best teams are indeed composed of players whose recent ancestors came from Africa.

    Now here is the part that actually did more than anything else to erase unfavorable, prejudicial racial bias in my own views.

    By the same logic as was used to assemble a winning sports team, if you were to assemble a team that was composed of the most intellectually extreme, smartest people on Earth, it is quite likely that most of the team members would be from central Africa.
    If you don’t see people of recent African ancestry in some of the highest positions in Universities and government, it is because there is a very strong union which tries to keep them out.

    Personally, I’d be tempted to start a union of left-handers to ensure that we can get preferential treatment in getting the best jobs, regardless of how well we might do that job. Yes, that would be nice. We’d get high pay by restricting the supply of left-handers for jobs, and a guaranteed income for life. Not so good for competition or the consumer, but what the heck, I deserve it. But for some reason, that has never happened. Too hard to immediately see handedness, I guess.

  9. #809
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,940
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Jeez, you forced me to go back and read that post.

    OK, I don’t think End is racist in the way that is actually harmful. Rather, as far as I can see, he is just claiming a distinction between races without much personal bias associated with that distinction. I would call this the product of a very logical mind with an imperfect understanding of how this view can negatively impact others. I also think this view is not correct, but it is a view that I shared for many years, based on my family’s views and my own lack of exposure to conflicting views. When I got to the University, my views changed.
    You are right @Adam Strange, I only observe and speak about facts. I do know full well how these facts can negatively impact other groups yet I simply do not care. Nobody else really cared about me for, well, my whole life. Ergo, I don't much care about any other out-groups feels. Yes, it sucks being a member of an out-group, deal with it you fucking pussies.

    As an aside I would have taken olive branches, but nobody ever offered me one without very blatant and idiotically obvious ulterior motives. Entangling alliances are not a thing I wanted to be a part of, thus I suffered K-12 essentially alone. Oh well, could have been worse, could have had a non-stable mother and a less than understanding brother. That is to say that I didn't get raised by a bitter man hating woman and didn't have to deal with a younger brother who happened to be a sociopath. He has/had a big ego yeah, but he wasn't all that bad and, indeed, he got rather supportive and nice later on. He went from a mildly bad presence to a soft and kind presence in my life. I count my blessings on that front as positive .
    Last edited by End; 12-05-2016 at 06:50 AM.

  10. #810
    netflix and don't touch me Emmym's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Midwest
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    291
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    You are right @Adam Strange, I only observe and speak about facts. I do know full well how these facts can negatively impact other groups yet I simply do not care. Nobody else really cared about me for, well, my whole life. Ergo, I don't much care about any other out-groups feels. Yes, it sucks being a member of an out-group, deal with it you fucking pussies.

    As an aside I would have taken olive branches, but nobody ever offered me one without very blatant and idiotically obvious ulterior motives. Entangling alliances are not a thing I wanted to be a part of, thus I suffered K-12 essentially alone. Oh well, could have been worse, could have had a non-stable mother and a less than understanding brother. That is to say that I didn't get raised by a bitter man hating woman and didn't have to deal with a younger brother who happened to be a sociopath. He has/had a big ego yeah, but he wasn't all that bad and, indeed, he got rather supportive and nice later on. He went from a mildly bad presence to a soft and kind presence in my life. I count my blessings on that front as positive .
    End uses white-washed white supremacist fairy tales to supplement is own failed understanding of history, just as his failed understanding of women is largely derived from humiliation porn.
    someday the grapes will be wine
    and someday you will be mine


    EII-Ne 2w3 - 9w1 - 7w8 so/sx

  11. #811
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,940
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    End uses white-washed white supremacist fairy tales to supplement is own failed understanding of history, just as his failed understanding of women is largely derived from humiliation porn.
    Well, ya got me in a sense. "White" people ended slavery and made it taboo, invented the internet, treated their "Inferiors" so good that the Africans are pining for the days of the British Empire given how flat out exploitative and racist the Chinese are by comparison... so yeah, forgive me for being proud of all that. Also, I shit you not on that Chinese thing I mentioned. I quote a Zambian here, process this my suspected SJW friend: "We want the Chinese to leave and the old colonial rulers to return. They exploited our natural resources too, but at least they took good care of us. They built schools, taught us their language and brought us the British civilisation. At least Western capitalism has a human face; the Chinese are only out to exploit us."

    Whitey at least felt like he could improve the lot of his/her "inferiors" (whom he never really held as such, given his Christian ideal of the equality of the soul). That maybe, one day, everyone could bask in the advantages and joys of "Western" freedom. The left would rather just kill all white people because after all, they're just a bunch of evil Nazi time mines just waiting to start the final Shoah/Enslave everyone who isn't 99.999999999% "Aryan Master Race" on a baseless whim that we really gotta kill em' all several generations before that becomes a minor posibility. God damn you leftists are so fucking neurotic I question how ****** ever came to power. Surely your kind would have killed the man dead during his lonely artist days the instant he even mentioned how he liked anything of "Aryan" origin (His beer hall putsch really should have been the last rational straw but damn did your people really not get the VERY obvious hint on that one).

    Gah! You left wing types perpetuate your own self-fulfilling prophecy! The more shit like this I read/hear the more and more comfortable I'm becoming with the next Reich. Why? Because at least THAT will shut you the fuck up and prove my point that you people cause the very shit you fear to come into existence! If only you'd have listened to me and cooled your damn tits we wouldn't be in Naziland but no, you subconsciously wanted the Nazis to come back so hard that ya meme'd em' back into existence. Meme magic people, apparently it works and apparently the enemies of the right wanted them to be right so hard that they accomplished what decades of skinheads seig heil'ing couldn't... another reich .
    Last edited by End; 12-06-2016 at 05:44 AM.

  12. #812

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Can we stop pretending end isn't just a run of the mill racist yet? I called it? You're welcome.
    Yea but then what would everyone do with there time?

    Plus racism as a social issue is anything but "run of the mill".

    Obviously End feels very passionately about something but it's hard to tell why. Personally I'll probably have to read a small novella just to figure it out, which I haven't done yet.

    But another angle on things like this, sometimes people are drawn into playing the "anti-hero" more when they feel misunderstood for polemic POVs and tend to draw things out when they are fed by group persecution or judgements. This happens especially on the internet because no one is going to punish them for continuing to carry on.

    By contrast if you were an anchorman or woman, viewers would jeer you for unpopular views and your hosts would cut you off the air. But the irony is that people sometimes like drama, and you can find yourself "on air" even with openly resented ideas.

    This is how I see it. You have your "accused" in this corner and "the popular consensus" in this one. None of it's actually "run of the mill" outside the "popular consensus" because it's only a very small slice of the world we are seeing here represented and little effort has been taken to synthesize this into relatable threads of social attitudes. It makes it sound like "all racism is the same animal".

    Racist is a judgement or label, many people make it and move on. However what this judgement doesn't give you is insight into one's frame of mind. For that I have some reading to do lol...

  13. #813
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    /
    Posts
    7,031
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i just wanna know if you see yourself as a white supremacist @<a href="http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/member.php?u=7809" target="_blank">End</a> ?

    ps. i found a video

    Last edited by marooned; 12-06-2016 at 08:45 PM.

  14. #814
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,940
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i just wanna know if you see yourself as a white supremacist @<a href="http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/member.php?u=7809" target="_blank">End</a> ?
    I don't view myself as a supremacist, more of a realist. The data is in and it ain't pretty, but there isn't much you can do about it. I just make peace with the fact that the top 3 ethnic groups in the world IQ wise are Jews, East Asians, and European Whites, in that order. The only wild card is that the Whites are the craziest. Thus that 100 IQ has the caveat of being the most non-linear and pathologically altruistic (i.e the most tolerant of out-groups). Seriously, get a Jew and/or an East Asian to level with you on race and you will quickly find out that Whitey is by far the NICEST tribe you'll ever meet. Still sees itself as superior to the others yeah, but they got data to back it up and ultimately they aren't very intent on genocide and racial purity. Whitey is so radically individualistic that it's both his greatest strength and weakness.

    During the Imperial Era they actually believed their own bullshit in regards to assimilation. Only Christian Whites could have ever actually bought the bullshit of a "proposition nation" hook, line, and sinker. They called it the "white man's burden" for a reason, reason being that you'd have to convince those fucking savages that there was a better way to go about doing things that relied on reason and evidence over base animalistic tribalism.

    I've posted the quote before but it bears repeating, the Africans have now experienced two forms of colonialism. The Whites did it first, the Chinese are doing it now. Lemme tell ya, there is no such thing as "Asian" guilt, thus they don't give a flying fuck about the "damned n-word" they're exploiting. Whitey exploited them yeah, but they viewed the Negro race as something to be redeemed (to be expected given Christianity's focus on that "Equality of the Soul" concept). Asians, not so much. They're wishing we'd re-colonize them as a result. Now I don't know about you, but if someone wanted me to get back to ruling them than I'd say my people did something right in a major way. Just putting that out there...
    Last edited by End; 12-07-2016 at 05:14 AM.

  15. #815

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ^ well that was some nice food for thought. Sounds imbalanced on the sullen and gloomy side.

    I think this all has to do with interpersonal skills as well (which is interesting considering the reference to intelligence). People exploit others sure, it's not pretty, but racial exploitation is different and has its roots in tribalism and the sociology of such. The silver lining to this though is that not all differences between tribes are treated as "hate", there are also effects of genuine interest, novelty, and mutual evolution. It's a mix. So in theory there is hope, and as people pursue effort into this mutualism it benefits social integrity as these interpersonal relations are developed. But it's not easy.

    You mention a lot about European Whites, which brings to mind colonialism. A lot of people depict this as the white man enslaving and exploiting the inferior savage, and while valid to some basis, this is only half the side. Early colonists were drawn to the "new world" for its freedom and pastoral graces that gave them reprise from the courtly life of renaissance and enlightenment age Europe. The art of that era was very influenced by the impacts of this new idyllic place. The concept of the noble savage was explored in depth. Many of the inhabitants of New England even had all these cute dealings with the natives, exchanging patchwork items and stitching symbols of mutual trust and adoration. However as the typical anecdote paradise failed and paranoia and hysteria took effect. It's easy to breeze through history in one daily sitting and think well it looks like exploitation on paper, but it happened more gradually in actual flux.

    The natives themselves were drawn into the "white man's ways" and their identity was in question. For them these new things were being presented fast while in Europe these had taken the span of the dark ages to enlightenment to achieve and they had a gradual change. The loss of the Europeans "noble savage" occurred slowly and gradually to the point it became a point of complacency. In the dark ages Latin was exclusively a church language for higher classes and teachers were careful to censure lessons on classic literature to proper courtly manners. However by the time of colonialism most Europeans had integrated and almost forgot what freedom from the standpoint of the "noble savage" was about.

    So really under careful scrutiny it's not just about white exploiting black/brown. Anthropologically it's about some far more profound theme of societies self-reflection.

    Ironically its very popular to feel bad for the natives in circumspect and blame the white man. Even for white people themselves, it's very popular to point out the fallacies of imperialism. But with a modern technological world it feels like most of idyll has already past and attempts to recreate it feel like only after effects. Even those cultures exposed to western influence have adopted our technology, products, and weaponry. It has become a consequence of social integration.

    https://youtu.be/f_qgoogtKAg , sorry I couldn't find the English version and it's a little cheesy/Hollywood.
    Last edited by LinguiniPig; 12-07-2016 at 06:18 AM.

  16. #816
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Well, ya got me in a sense. "White" people ended slavery and made it taboo, invented the internet, treated their "Inferiors" so good that the Africans are pining for the days of the British Empire given how flat out exploitative and racist the Chinese are by comparison... so yeah, forgive me for being proud of all that. Also, I shit you not on that Chinese thing I mentioned. I quote a Zambian here, process this my suspected SJW friend: "We want the Chinese to leave and the old colonial rulers to return. They exploited our natural resources too, but at least they took good care of us. They built schools, taught us their language and brought us the British civilisation. At least Western capitalism has a human face; the Chinese are only out to exploit us."

    Whitey at least felt like he could improve the lot of his/her "inferiors" (whom he never really held as such, given his Christian ideal of the equality of the soul). That maybe, one day, everyone could bask in the advantages and joys of "Western" freedom. The left would rather just kill all white people because after all, they're just a bunch of evil Nazi time mines just waiting to start the final Shoah/Enslave everyone who isn't 99.999999999% "Aryan Master Race" on a baseless whim that we really gotta kill em' all several generations before that becomes a minor posibility. God damn you leftists are so fucking neurotic I question how ****** ever came to power. Surely your kind would have killed the man dead during his lonely artist days the instant he even mentioned how he liked anything of "Aryan" origin (His beer hall putsch really should have been the last rational straw but damn did your people really not get the VERY obvious hint on that one).

    Gah! You left wing types perpetuate your own self-fulfilling prophecy! The more shit like this I read/hear the more and more comfortable I'm becoming with the next Reich. Why? Because at least THAT will shut you the fuck up and prove my point that you people cause the very shit you fear to come into existence! If only you'd have listened to me and cooled your damn tits we wouldn't be in Naziland but no, you subconsciously wanted the Nazis to come back so hard that ya meme'd em' back into existence. Meme magic people, apparently it works and apparently the enemies of the right wanted them to be right so hard that they accomplished what decades of skinheads seig heil'ing couldn't... another reich .
    Hey you still haven't thanked the Chinese for noodles. Modern chinese imperialism has nothing to do with their race, and they didn't invent race as a construct either. If you think the "left" wants to "kill white people" that's your delusion.

    One of the things you're doing is very racially fixated, and something you've even criticized in others. Western civilization isn't white people, it was merely dominated by whites, their interaction with others also influenced them even their imperialism influenced, the abolition of slavery was counter-reaction to it's sins. Much of western philosophy and science was the product of Jews and outcasts, refugees so to speak, which the dominant culture forced to flee their homeland and forced into a life of contemplation because they had little opportunity in politics, religion or military work. In fact you wouldn't be on this forum if it wasn't for a group of samizdat scholars working in the former USSR.

    It is you that subconsciously want the Nazi's to be back, this is exactly what you're saying, you're projecting your desires on others and you're projecting your fear on them as well.

    "THAT will shut you the fuck up and prove my point that you people cause the very shit you fear to come into existence!" You've explicitly expressed your desire for this because you think it benefits you. Why do you want this is probably something that can be analyzed. Why do a whole spectrum of people want this is something that can be analyzed.

    Your fear is certainly an existential one and this despair you feel is real, but your want(which you've explicitly expressed) is not going to end well for anyone. The reality is modernity and progress will win this fight, not tribalism, it might take a thousand or two thousand years, but inevitably these regressive forces and the challenges they pose will be solved. This is because modernity and progress is about solving problems, perhaps imperfectly and foolishly sometimes, but it chooses enlightenment and knowledge, and ultimately the risk of venturing into the unknown, for good and ill. The alternative endarkenment is based on hiding, on ignorance, on senseless violence and as long as man and our progeny choose to wonder, chooses knowledge, it can never win.

    Ultimately we all can choose what we do in life for good and ill, and you have the ability to choose a path of knowledge, risk and hopefully progress. You can give up, you can destroy or wish for that destruction and hide, that is also a choice.

  17. #817
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Because people are using the N-word with little need(since having it uncensored) and often to provoke I'm going to give a official warning in this thread, I'm going to ask people not use the word unless it's to discuss the word in a sociological context because I will start censoring the word again and banning people who use the word from this thread.

    Do not use racial epithets(and other) in a inflammatory way or as a derogatory term, that will be handled under trolling and offensive content.

  18. #818
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Can we stop pretending end isn't just a run of the mill racist yet? I called it? You're welcome.
    End is racist but the why is more important than the result in a lot of ways. His identity is very much tied to his personal idea that he is white(or at list wishes he was) vs others. I think his psychology is interesting to look at because I don't think it's just run of the mill(if it was it can still be analyzed), it's a modality of racism that comes from the lack of a well developed personal identity. Thus this racial identity becomes so important to End and his self-worth that he needs it.

    He distorts race and ethnicity together as well(Chinese is "Asian" and technically a ethnicity while White is race, and not an ethnicity), however as social constructs these easily get confused, what matter is for him "White is me, other stuff is other"

    He things the left is trying to "kill white people" and in turn him, and this is why he explicitly start asking for a world where these people who are going to kill him are going to get oppressed and killed. There is a rationality here, perhaps delusional one, but rational nonetheless in his personal worldview that drives his beliefs.

    This is why the concepts of "white genocide" is so appealing to the white nationalist movement. Feelings of victimhood also lets them portray themselves as not racial supremacists even if everything they do is driven towards this end.

  19. #819
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East of the sun, west of the moon
    TIM
    SLI 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    13,815
    Mentioned
    197 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default



    Things are getting trickier by the day.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  20. #820
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LinguiniPig View Post
    ^ well that was some nice food for thought. Sounds imbalanced on the sullen and gloomy side.

    I think this all has to do with interpersonal skills as well (which is interesting considering the reference to intelligence). People exploit others sure, it's not pretty, but racial exploitation is different and has its roots in tribalism and the sociology of such. The silver lining to this though is that not all differences between tribes are treated as "hate", there are also effects of genuine interest, novelty, and mutual evolution. It's a mix. So in theory there is hope, and as people pursue effort into this mutualism it benefits social integrity as these interpersonal relations are developed. But it's not easy.

    You mention a lot about European Whites, which brings to mind colonialism. A lot of people depict this as the white man enslaving and exploiting the inferior savage, and while valid to some basis, this is only half the side. Early colonists were drawn to the "new world" for its freedom and pastoral graces that gave them reprise from the courtly life of renaissance and enlightenment age Europe. The art of that era was very influenced by the impacts of this new idyllic place. The concept of the noble savage was explored in depth. Many of the inhabitants of New England even had all these cute dealings with the natives, exchanging patchwork items and stitching symbols of mutual trust and adoration. However as the typical anecdote paradise failed and paranoia and hysteria took effect. It's easy to breeze through history in one daily sitting and think well it looks like exploitation on paper, but it happened more gradually in actual flux.

    The natives themselves were drawn into the "white man's ways" and their identity was in question. For them these new things were being presented fast while in Europe these had taken the span of the dark ages to enlightenment to achieve and they had a gradual change. The loss of the Europeans "noble savage" occurred slowly and gradually to the point it became a point of complacency. In the dark ages Latin was exclusively a church language for higher classes and teachers were careful to censure lessons on classic literature to proper courtly manners. However by the time of colonialism most Europeans had integrated and almost forgot what freedom from the standpoint of the "noble savage" was about.

    So really under careful scrutiny it's not just about white exploiting black/brown. Anthropologically it's about some far more profound theme of societies self-reflection.

    Ironically its very popular to feel bad for the natives in circumspect and blame the white man. Even for white people themselves, it's very popular to point out the fallacies of imperialism. But with a modern technological world it feels like most of idyll has already past and attempts to recreate it feel like only after effects. Even those cultures exposed to western influence have adopted our technology, products, and weaponry. It has become a consequence of social integration.

    https://youtu.be/f_qgoogtKAg , sorry I couldn't find the English version and it's a little cheesy/Hollywood.
    I think industrial revolution created a lot of the forces that allowed for race to be the social construct it is today, as this revolution happened in the western world and not elsewhere, it disenfranchised some individuals in its society while creating advantages for that societies against other societies which had not progressed. Race and skin color being noticeable features of individuals became something people could form an identity around while they were disenfranchised and alienated by forces they could not control. Tribal and sectarian division easily arise in this sort of enviroment and gave drive to the forces to exploit those who were not as advanced and not as capable of resisting. But these internal forces were never resolved by these external adventures which only could sustain things and not solve the problems which arose in the industrial revolution, it's only until recent modernity that we started to solve some of these problems after two cataclysmic world wars. The modern world is entering another period of major social revolution in the information revolution and it could very well be the information revolution that resolves many of these internal issues still present from the industrial revolution, while presenting different problems and sources of social disenfranchisement and alienation.

  21. #821
    Jarno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    TIM
    ILI-Te
    Posts
    5,430
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The Trump just saved the US 4 billion dollars, and he's not even president yet. bye bye air force one, say hello to trump force one.

  22. #822
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,891
    Mentioned
    221 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I don't view myself as a supremacist, more of a realist. The data is in and it ain't pretty, but there isn't much you can do about it. I just make peace with the fact that the top 3 ethnic groups in the world IQ wise are Jews, East Asians, and European Whites, in that order. The only wild card is that the Whites are the craziest. Thus that 100 IQ has the caveat of being the most non-linear and pathologically altruistic (i.e the most tolerant of out-groups). Seriously, get a Jew and/or an East Asian to level with you on race and you will quickly find out that Whitey is by far the NICEST tribe you'll ever meet. Still sees itself as superior to the others yeah, but they got data to back it up and ultimately they aren't very intent on genocide and racial purity. Whitey is so radically individualistic that it's both his greatest strength and weakness.

    During the Imperial Era they actually believed their own bullshit in regards to assimilation. Only Christian Whites could have ever actually bought the bullshit of a "proposition nation" hook, line, and sinker. They called it the "white man's burden" for a reason, reason being that you'd have to convince those fucking savages that there was a better way to go about doing things that relied on reason and evidence over base animalistic tribalism.

    I've posted the quote before but it bears repeating, the Africans have now experienced two forms of colonialism. The Whites did it first, the Chinese are doing it now. Lemme tell ya, there is no such thing as "Asian" guilt, thus they don't give a flying fuck about the "damned n-word" they're exploiting. Whitey exploited them yeah, but they viewed the Negro race as something to be redeemed (to be expected given Christianity's focus on that "Equality of the Soul" concept). Asians, not so much. They're wishing we'd re-colonize them as a result. Now I don't know about you, but if someone wanted me to get back to ruling them than I'd say my people did something right in a major way. Just putting that out there...
    Hey End, to be honest with you I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from. I'm not really interested in attacking you because of your viewpoints. I'm just wondering if you see Whites as superior to every race because of intelligence, altruism and creativity as white supremacists tend to argue or just that Whites are equivalent to East Asians and Jews because of similar IQs making those three ethnic groups superior to other ethnic groups and other traits each ethnic group possesses is simply different strengths and weaknesses rather than making one superior to the other, which would be a different point of view. Also, I'm curious to what you think of other ethnic groups in general if you want to share.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  23. #823
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,940
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Hey End, to be honest with you I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from. I'm not really interested in attacking you because of your viewpoints. I'm just wondering if you see Whites as superior to every race because of intelligence, altruism and creativity as white supremacists tend to argue or just that Whites are equivalent to East Asians and Jews because of similar IQs making those three ethnic groups superior to other ethnic groups and other traits each ethnic group possesses is simply different strengths and weaknesses rather than making one superior to the other, which would be a different point of view. Also, I'm curious to what you think of other ethnic groups in general if you want to share.
    In the ultimate end there is no "superior" race, as the true lesson of Darwin is that you want the genetics of a given population to be as "diverse" as possible so that a given species has a maximum chance of surviving any unforeseen calamity. That guy may be dumb as all hell, but if virus X comes rolling in only people with that "dumb" gene are gonna survive. Thus, don't kill off all those "dumb" idiots!

    I'm also not averse to each race being considered a different "class" as it were in a video game sense with different strengths, weaknesses, and peculiar ways of behaving in a given situation. Seems to bear out IRL. Even so, "race" is real and only fools disregard that fact. Wish it wasn't the case, but the facts are undeniable. Only SJWs accept the proposition that ideals trump reality. They don't, just ask all the girls in Calais who found that out the hard way.

    Though in regards to "other" ethnic groups... I don't care. You're your people, I'm my people. Just so long as your people don't fuck over my people and/or threaten our dominance over our previously conquered territory we can be best friends. Hell if you pass hard enough as my people you can come over to my house and fuck my sister! "Passing" happens, just ask several French Traders when the bumped into the Indians or Lawrence of Arabia during WWII. The "other" is not necessarily an adversary, he only becomes one when he begins to present a legitimate threat to the current In-group. Send one Mexican to Japan? Hell he can assimilate and bone the daughter of a prominent Yakuza family and nobody will bat an eye. Send a Million Mexicans within the space of a month into that same Yakuza family's territory? RaHoWa comes on swift wings of death...
    Last edited by End; 12-08-2016 at 05:59 AM.

  24. #824
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,940
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    This is why the concepts of "white genocide" is so appealing to the white nationalist movement. Feelings of victimhood also lets them portray themselves as not racial supremacists even if everything they do is driven towards this end.
    http://www.preventgenocide.org/genoc...erfriendly.htm

    We are currently suffering C,D, and E of article II (B is also very much happening, but that's a whole other can of worms I won't get into now) and most everyone in the West is guilty of E under Article III and I can adroitly argue for the reasons that I am right about all that if you so wish to engage me in that debate (finger's crossed ). Point is, ya don't need Concentration Camps, Death Squads, Ovens, and whatever else to commit a genocide. You only need to control the apparatus of state and you can make it happen without directly killing anyone once you structure the legal system right. If you control Academia and the cultural chambers (i.e. media in all its forms), well, so much the better.

    Also, I wish your side would learn the lesson already. You've already established the fact that you'll call anyone who disagrees with you a racist Nazi at the drop of a hat. Ergo, the charge loses all meaning and actually encourages people who disagree with you to go full on 14/88 while considering how the aesthetic and stylistic choice a high quality brown shirt would impact their everyday life.

    Like I said in a previous post, the science is in. Moderation gets you nowhere. If you are to the right of the current Overton Window, then your best bet is to LARP the 4th Reich. If it is to the Left, LARP the 5th International. You may get banned from forums, lose your job, etc. But in being this sacrificial lamb for your cause you will inspire the "moderates" who are close to the edge of the Window to act out in turn. An example I gave was that if one was a shy "Civic Nationalist" then he would be inspired to speak out if he ever heard someone channel the Furher. Why? Because by comparison he's downright level headed and moderate! "America" first doesn't mean "Whites" first, it only means that legal citizens ought come first. Come now, isn't that rational? That's what everyone wants to be, the level-headed "moderate" one that would never go so far as to start another pogrom against the Jews or abolish private property so that we could enact the policy from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The grand majority want to be the "reasonable" moderate, which is exactly why it does not pay to be that in public. You just blend in by doing that. However, if you grow a pair and go all in for one side or the other well... then you might get some results! Sadly Neo-Liberalism does all it can to discourage people from realizing this kind of thing. After all, things like extremism, nationalism of all kinds, and global communism is bad for "global" crony-capitalist business.

    I'll say it a thousand times, everyone is way too concerned about money. Ideals, strive for ideals. Any will do just please strive for something beyond mere sex and material shit! I am so fucking DONE with neo-liberal hipsters. Stand for something from the heart already! I'm sick of seemingly being the only living ensouled being among a horde of tech-obsessed empty zombies!!!
    Last edited by End; 12-08-2016 at 05:32 AM.

  25. #825

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    I think industrial revolution created a lot of the forces that allowed for race to be the social construct it is today...
    Couldn't agree more. Economics have always driven society and tribes since the biblical time of Cain and Abel as well as the dawn of agricultural. But more to the present the industrial revolution is another example. What's interesting to note though is how throughout the dark ages to renaissance Europeans heavily relied on the Orient and Middle East for industrial and technological advances. Much of Europe evolved out of a post Roman Byzantine root. The Dark Ages was very fractured politically, aristocrats vying for power, 100 years war, and so forth. Once a reasonable amount of social integrity developed this enabled many of the technological developments of the enlightenment era. Much of the literature for example were general Europeans exploring the "classics" of Greece and Rome. Romanticism by contrast brought about revivals of other cultural aspects not associated to Roman/Greek roots-- things referencing Celtic, Germanic, and Medieval culture reimagined.

    However while all this integrity was happening in Europe you had conflicts with other nations. Imperialism and Colonialism, and much of this was driven by trade. Since Columbus gold was discovered. Other resources were developed as well, agriculture, sugar, tabacco, cod, wheat, fur; spices in the East Indies. Europeans didn't have access to so much land, most of it was "owned" by someone already. So there were quite literally greener pastures somewhere else. This isn't strictly European "superiority" but an exchange of resources. Other cultures had land and resources they needed. Europeans had guns, technology, and other things to trade. Eventually natives were shaped to this like a binary system. This is somewhat in congruence with how the Romans dealt with Gaul and Germany in Ancient Europe.

    Of course now the edge is the Information Age and how it transforms modernism which was the successor to European Romanticism. Of course Disney is still around which relates to all these fairy tales, but the modernist view is less sweeping and more practical. Industrial life isn't a new bold horizon but a rooted reality. You don't see people acting like Gone with the Wind or some other 19th century relic. People don't ship spice, agriculture and mining isn't the mainstay of international trade, people don't own slaves from Africa. All these things have been transformed to new social constructs. Many human needs are now satisfied by some other outlet. This is true for Europeans as well as Natives.

    Your typical hollywood movie, dances with wolves or last of the mohicans always presents the savage sympathetically. Liberal kids grow up and learn the history and go to college and come out feeling some nostalgic yearning to the past and noble savage. So there you end up having all these neo-tribal hippie types. The irony is they are probably loaded on education favoring the western world and have iPods, mac laptops, all manner of traces of modern conveniences. Meanwhile you have your conservative type who actually is from somewhere rural and enjoys idyllic activity outdoors hunting, fishing, camping. These people couldn't seem further disconnected from the other half but both have some sort of connection to the savage, native, or idyllic lifestyle.

    This is one instance of hidden common ground between two disparate political entities. This I think shows that integrity is a potential hope, some golden mean may exist, but the current ideological schism is endemic to the time and will run its course like poison.
    Last edited by LinguiniPig; 12-08-2016 at 06:46 AM.

  26. #826
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I'll say it a thousand times, everyone is way too concerned about money. Ideals, strive for ideals. Any will do just please strive for something beyond mere sex and material shit! I am so fucking DONE with neo-liberal hipsters. Stand for something from the heart already! I'm sick of seemingly being the only living ensouled being among a horde of tech-obsessed empty zombies!!!
    Ideals are never true, they're just dream that can guide you. You stand for nothing but your own existential despair, you're not unique or special or ensouled, you have a choice, and thus far what you have chosen is nihilism.

  27. #827
    Kim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    TIM
    IEE e7 783 sx so
    Posts
    6,997
    Mentioned
    423 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is what happens when history books begin their coverage of non-Western regions with the onset of colonialism.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

  28. #828
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LinguiniPig View Post
    Of course now the edge is the Information Age and how it transforms modernism which was the successor to European Romanticism. Of course Disney is still around which relates to all these fairy tales, but the modernist view is less sweeping and more practical. Industrial life isn't a new bold horizon but a rooted reality. You don't see people acting like Gone with the Wind or some other 19th century relic. People don't ship spice, agriculture and mining isn't the mainstay of international trade, people don't own slaves from Africa. All these things have been transformed to new social constructs. Many human needs are now satisfied by some other outlet. This is true for Europeans as well as Natives.

    Your typical hollywood movie, dances with wolves or last of the mohicans always presents the savage sympathetically. Liberal kids grow up and learn the history and go to college and come out feeling some nostalgic yearning to the past and noble savage. So there you end up having all these neo-tribal hippie types. The irony is they are probably loaded on education favoring the western world and have iPods, mac laptops, all manner of traces of modern conveniences. Meanwhile you have your conservative type who actually is from somewhere rural and enjoys idyllic activity outdoors hunting, fishing, camping. These people couldn't seem further disconnected from the other half but both have some sort of connection to the savage, native, or idyllic lifestyle.

    This is one instance of hidden common ground between two disparate political entities. This I think shows that integrity is a potential hope, some golden mean may exist, but the current ideological schism is endemic to the time and will run its course like poison.
    I think this common ground is very much between subgroups and not mainstream groups, there exists a possibility of dialogue thru these subgroups but the cultural conflict of the urban and rural has not dissipated and I think this is driven by psychological forces which are hard to change.

    One of the reasons I see for the development of racism is the priority of in group empathy and barriers against out group empathy, in the rural in group empathy is heightened by close but necessary contact and what you would say idyllic is the intimacy. Urban enviroment provide many distant and unnecessary contact between individuals and people develop barriers against in group empathy(what group are you in anyways?). However this can allow urban individuals to develop as a necessity some level of outgroup empathy or more professional distant modes of communication which can help one achieve one's ambitions or goals. The transient and often multi-regional/culture population of cities provides a ripe ground for the development of outgroup empathy, except where class barriers and other social barriers impede social contact and voluntary and respectful cooperation. Despite prejudice which all people can have, overtime this voluntary and respectful cooperation can evolve and develop into out-group empathy which can mitigate many of the most hateful modes of thinking and behavior. However there are always many other barriers to this voluntary and respectful cooperation as well as forces which seek to use these barriers for their own ends.

    What has allowed humanity to evolve past tribalism is the development of outgroup empathy for people outside of our immediate familiars and local prejudices as well as the development of large in group categories which allows for in-group empathy for people for which identity is in some ways similar. These developments happen in parallel tracks but can often be out of sync creating a divide internally. Religion/nationalism/ethnicity/race are some of these factor. There are very practical reasons for having less outgroup empathy and very practical reasons for having ingroup empathy but these psychological mechanisms can impede dialogue and create conflict which disparate group attempt to communicate.

    The information age really started when we began to investigate these subjective experiences and their effects on peoples, what we people often see as the first tools of the information age are actually not, the first tools were sociology and psychology and the objective investigation of the human experience.

    The industrial revolution was an age of alienation, individuals were alienated from their labor, their neighbors and their co-workers, but most of all, there was a dissolution of this in-group empathy that people expected and want. For the rural, this alienation is intolerable and existentially threatening, and they have chosen a nostalgic idyllic escape to religion, nationalism, anything which will cater to this fear and loss, even malignant hatred. And so has the revolutions of the 19th, 20th, 21st century shown how frayed civilization can be. Today these forces are in play in the Middle East but they have not stopped working in the west either. The neo-tribal hippies are similarly seeking this experience, and they do it where people who they do not identify with are scarce but for them it's more an escape, a vacation, to connect spiritually so to speak.

    The information age and tools like social media has further frayed our sense of in group empathy and identity, creating many existential dilemmas which humanity has never experienced and these challenges are just beginning to be understood by sociology and psychology. What is known is that for now our bodies and minds will not be abandoning these evolutionary features, and it is up to us to resolve the challenges progress has wrought on our sense of belonging and our trust in each other. And it is not some clever trick or technology that will help us move past these challenges but our ability to love and trust our fellow human beings and if not have out group empathy for them, to bring them to a greater whole, a greater in group which will allow for this love and trust.

  29. #829
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    /
    Posts
    7,031
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    this kind of thing is why i don't think races exist. i'd be interested @End in knowing why you think they do. or why you think anything meaningful can be gathered from categorizing people this way.

    a couple other things on race and i.q.

    - http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/10/jam...-truth_296.php
    - http://sites.biology.duke.edu/rausher/lec23_05.html
    Last edited by marooned; 12-08-2016 at 05:02 PM.

  30. #830
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,891
    Mentioned
    221 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    this kind of thing is why i don't think races exist. i'd be interested @End in knowing why you think they do. or why you think anything meaningful can be gathered from categorizing people this way.
    To be honest with you, I think this is complete nonsense. Pretending races don't exist is basically putting your head in the sand in the hopes to end racism. There is plenty of evidence that race exists, the fact that different races have a small amount of admixture with different species is evidence of that. Europeans tend to have a small amount of Neanderthal admixture, East Asians have a small amount of Neanderthal and Denisoven admixture and Africans have no Neanderthal or Denisoven admixture, but a small amount of an unknown archaic human species instead:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch..._modern_humans

    I'm all for the human species living together in peace and harmony without bigotry and without boasting superiority over each other, but pretending there aren't minor differences of humans from various parts of the world is not the way to do it.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  31. #831
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    /
    Posts
    7,031
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    There is plenty of evidence that race exists, the fact that different races have a small amount of admixture with different species is evidence of that. Europeans tend to have a small amount of Neanderthal admixture, East Asians have a small amount of Neanderthal and Denisoven admixture and Africans have no Neanderthal or Denisoven admixture, but a small amount of an unknown archaic human species instead:
    yeah but that's because africans at the time didn't encounter neanderthals or denisovens because they hadn't left the continent. obviously you can't pick up their genes if you never encountered them to begin with.

    of course there are genetic variations among people. for instance i've read before that populations that have lived at high elevations for a long time developed increased lung capacity. there are numerous things that will change per environmental conditions through evolution.

    the problem with "race" is that it's an over-simplification and very much a choice in terms of how to look at humanity (a statement about which differences between us are most significant). and it is used terribly as a concept (its function seems to be to perpetuate racism).

    mainly there is a huge story in the human genome as various populations gradually covered the globe, and "race" is this really crude over-simplification of the story that doesn't allow you derive much meaningful out of it.

  32. #832
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,940
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    this kind of thing is why i don't think races exist. i'd be interested @End in knowing why you think they do. or why you think anything meaningful can be gathered from categorizing people this way.
    The first thing is that scientists are never truly unbiased, they will try to produce the result that society wants from them and that their donors/employers/benefactors want. Deviate from or speak out against the "consensus" in any way that could be effective and you will be quickly ostracized by the community and lose all your funding. Ergo, you don't see many scientists willing to pay the financial and social cost of questioning/conducing research that might disrupt the current consensus, and thus the "consensus" holds until enough of the old coots at the top of peer review processes in academic journals and chairs at the heads of prominent science departments die off and are replaced by younger ones more open to questioning the old consensus. Hence the saying "Science advances one funeral at a time".

    Look up James Watson and others like him if you want to find out what happens to scientists who start to ask and seek answers to the "wrong" questions like this one. Your research may be exhaustively thorough and impeccably done, but if the conclusion is "wrong" you will be thrown out of town because the established order will not allow itself to be questioned or undermined by something as trivial as facts and the truth. Likewise if your research is cursory and shoddily done to boot but the conclusion is "right" you will be celebrated as a great researcher and a "foremost authority" on that subject. Such is human nature.

  33. #833
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,891
    Mentioned
    221 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    yeah but that's because africans at the time didn't encounter neanderthals or denisovens because they hadn't left the continent. obviously you can't pick up their genes if you never encountered them to begin with.
    Of course, that's exactly the reason why Africans did not inherit any Neanderthal or Denisoven genes because those species lived outside of Africa. However, Africans interbred with another archaic species that resided in Africa. There is no such thing as a pure homo sapiens nowadays, every human (homo sapien) today is roughly ~95-100% human, but we all have traces of other species from a more diverse past.

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    of course there are genetic variations among people. for instance i've read before that populations that have lived at high elevations for a long time developed increased lung capacity. there are numerous things that will change per environmental conditions through evolution.

    the problem with "race" is that it's an over-simplification and very much a choice in terms of how to look at humanity (a statement about which differences between us are most significant). and it is used terribly as a concept (its function seems to be to perpetuate racism).

    mainly there is a huge story in the human genome as various populations gradually covered the globe, and "race" is this really crude over-simplification of the story that doesn't allow you derive much meaningful out of it.
    Well, in the end of the day we are all the same species (homo sapien) with traces of other species (Neanderthal, Denisoven and an unknown species) and race is just a different way of saying subspecies:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies

    A Bengal tiger and a Siberian tiger are different subspecies (race) due to different environmental circumstances, but they are still tigers as there isn't that much of a difference between them. It works the same way for humans. There are different races or subspecies for humans because of environments that caused us to adapt to it.

    Africans developed black skin due to the high level of melanin required living in the Sub-Saharan part of the African continent and Caucasians developed white skin (little to no melanin) due to the requirement to absorb Vitamin D from lack of sunlight. Different subspecies evolved over time to adapt to the environment the resided in thus helping them to survive for future generations in that environment and the same applies to races that evolved in different parts of the world.

    That's what race means, it's just different a subspecies. Saying that race doesn't exist because it's a social construct is basically saying subspecies doesn't exist because it's a social construct, which is silly considering that there are many different subspecies of many kinds of animals and saying all tigers are exactly the same without any subspecies existing is basically denying biology.

    Humans are no different than other animals in that we have subspecies (races). The fact that humans from different parts of the world mated with other species to a minor extent within their region just made the subspecies more different via admixture only intensified the differences between subspecies in conjunction with the environment resulting in humans evolving to adapt to that region.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  34. #834
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    /
    Posts
    7,031
    Mentioned
    177 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @End you didn't really answer the question. you instead talked about how there is bias in science, which doesn't explain why you think races exist or why you accept the conclusions of those who say races exist over those who say otherwise.


    @Raver - supposedly there is not enough variation to qualify as "races" http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36...ll/ng1455.html

    which is to say this

    Saying that race doesn't exist because it's a social construct is basically saying subspecies doesn't exist because it's a social construct,
    is untrue. like the whole argument is that *we are not different/distinct enough* to be "subspecies."

    although the human species as a whole (homo sapiens sapiens), counts as a subspecies of homo sapiens. this dude is another.
    Last edited by marooned; 12-08-2016 at 09:44 PM.

  35. #835
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,936
    Mentioned
    1612 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just to keep people appraised of how the Trump team is looking for the next four years:

    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...-december-2016

  36. #836
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,891
    Mentioned
    221 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    @Raver - supposedly there is not enough variation to qualify as "races" http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36...ll/ng1455.html

    which is to say this

    is untrue. like the whole argument is that *we are not different/distinct enough* to be "subspecies."

    although the human species as a whole (homo sapiens sapiens), counts as a subspecies of homo sapiens. this dude is another.
    Something doesn't add up though. How could Eurasians contain a small amount of DNA of another species such as Neanderthals, but not have enough genetic difference to classify as a different race or subspecies compared to Africans that don't contain any Neanderthal DNA? It's either Neanderthals are actually a subspecies of homo sapiens instead of a different species hence why it's not enough to cause much of a difference between the races genetically to classify as a subspecies or races are actually subspecies. Which one is it then? The notion that different races have admixture of different species' DNA yet not even classify as a subspecies or even a race seems far-fetched IMO.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  37. #837
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    @End you didn't really answer the question. you instead talked about how there is bias in science, which doesn't explain why you think races exist or why you accept the conclusions of those who say races exist over those who say otherwise.


    @Raver - supposedly there is not enough variation to qualify as "races" http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36...ll/ng1455.html

    which is to say this

    is untrue. like the whole argument is that *we are not different/distinct enough* to be "subspecies."

    although the human species as a whole (homo sapiens sapiens), counts as a subspecies of homo sapiens. this dude is another.
    From a genetic standpoint you can needle dick race to death but from a practical standpoint, the genetics of race is far less relevant than culture, ethnicity, class, etc.

    Skin color is simply readily apparent and easy to categorize when people are very different. However the reality is that the skin color difference itself is minor and race is minor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

    Yet the social construct is more than just skin color, and it's codified into law racial purity for whites. This is the social construct of race and not merely some genetic differences from being from different part of the world.

    The social construct include the laws, the regulations which seperate races, and the legacy of destruction wrought by oppression of minorities.

    There is also ethnic oppression such as Japanese internment camps and Chinese exclusion act which are often only applied to racial minorities.

    Race and even ethnicity as the social construct is vastly greater than origin of birth or genetic or culture. The problem of race is that it's often mixed with class, ethnicity, culture and a history which has made this social construct very tough to change.

    Raver is missing the forest for the trees because it's not about genetics differences, which there are, it's about the false ideal of purity built on top of minor genetic differences, codified into law and practices.

    When people start dealing with mixed children like my nephews who are asian and white, race as the social construct starts being a fucking shitshow. Are they white? Are they asian? And why the fuck should race even matter.

    And this is why in the past interracial relations were restricted, and coloreds were segregated. These social constructs still persist althrough in more stealth form but are still onerous and oppressive.

  38. #838
    Raver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    TIM
    Ne-IEE 6w7 sp/sx
    Posts
    4,891
    Mentioned
    221 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    Raver is missing the forest for the trees because it's not about genetics differences, which there are, it's about the false ideal of purity built on top of minor genetic differences, codified into law and practices.

    When people start dealing with mixed children like my nephews who are asian and white, race as the social construct starts being a fucking shitshow. Are they white? Are they asian? And why the fuck should race even matter.

    And this is why in the past interracial relations were restricted, and coloreds were segregated. These social constructs still persist althrough in more stealth form but are still onerous and oppressive.
    Maybe I am, I don't deny that your possibility may be true mu4. I may seem like I'm dead set on race existing, but I'm always open to it not existing.
    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

  39. #839
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,152
    Mentioned
    760 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Maybe I am, I don't deny that your possibility may be true mu4. I may seem like I'm dead set on race existing, but I'm always open to it not existing.
    How you define race make it exist or not, if you define race as minor genetic differences and skin color, then it exists, but then the categories are entirely geographic and arbitrary. In Brazil Rashida Jones is white, what makes her white in Brazil and black in America, it's not genetics, it's the laws and regulations which define race.

    Race exists certainly as a social construct, but the genetic difference between races and the mixing of races makes definitions of race largely arbitrary and politically driven, often to disenfranchise groups and segregate them. It is this false, politically driven construct of race that is not merely untrue, but oppressive. If what is left of race in the future is some ancestry DNA chart of where your genes came from, then race would largely be a non issue, however as a politically constructed mechanism by which people are considered impure and lower class citizens, this injustice is intolerable.

  40. #840
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,940
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    @End you didn't really answer the question. you instead talked about how there is bias in science, which doesn't explain why you think races exist or why you accept the conclusions of those who say races exist over those who say otherwise.
    Alright, I'll get explicit. Yes race exists and it is a factor in determining things. Here's a good video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW_AZafEJ4A. Facts are facts, and race is the reason we won't be able to just "fix" the third world. Wish we could, but we can't. Their very biology rejects both Western and East Asian social structures. Thus any attempt to impose that upon them will fail.

    Furthermore Ethnic Groups are also real and that can lead to very big conflicts as well even if they happen to be of the same "racial" group as it were. At the risk of getting banned I will mention one of the modern age's most verboten scholars. He's a perfect example of impeccable research that answered the question he asked "wrong" and thus got his ass exiled with extreme prejudice. If'n ya wanna know why a certain ethnic group is such a popular topic of hatred, disdain and scorn in our Western culture you need only read the works of Kevin MacDonald. Here's hoping Donald Trump can help them square the circle and get them out of the current corner they've painted themselves into because, as it stands, they're headed for another expulsion event to even out their record at 110 times throughout history that was done to them really soon.
    Last edited by End; 12-09-2016 at 01:17 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •