Why is Se so desired?
Why is Se so desired in both Socionics as a subtype, and MBTI as a top cognitive function? Is it because of society? Is it the whole "living in the moment" craze? Is it the exploration aspect?
Someone, please tell me. I am an SLe-ESTp and I don't get the whole "Se" craze. Someone explain this to me.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Because IEIs gravitate to personality theory so a bunch of Se suggestive are on these sites.
I have never known this to be the case. Who told you that?
I wasn't aware of it being that desired, in a any significant way, among the masses so I am not sure what kind of explanation you are asking for.Originally Posted by luchoislurking
Edit: I see Galen was in before me...
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
That's pretty much it.
Nah, types are pretty evenly distributed throughout the general population. Certain subcultures and hobbies may draw certain types more than others, but IME they're all about evenly spread.
Is it???
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yeah. Oh, well. I dunno. Our whole Western culture seems gravitated toward SLE, SEE, ESE types etc. Extroverted Feelers and Sensors.I wasn't aware of it being that desired, in a any significant way, among the masses so I am not sure what kind of explanation you are asking for.
Edit: I see Galen was in before me...
Yeah, MBTI is too abstract. I used to think I was an xSFJ, but I looked into Socionics, and it was clear that I was an SLE-ESTp. It was down to my looping. Fe-Se loop. Now I am getting out of it, thank God.
Yeah, so basically places I would never been seen dead in? Activism, Libraries, Star Trek Conventions, Bhuddist Temples, India
Yuuuupppp.
What about this whole 1% and 4% thing? Is that just garbage?
Yeah. I doubt I'd find many ILIs in nightclubs. I doubt I'd find many SLEs in a library, and I doubt I'd find many EIEs fighting with Toro in a bullring.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
I only ever see those percentages in reference to MBTI, but yeah I still think it's garbage. Largely because MBTI is garbage.
I don't feel like Se is very desired in my life/job/friends.
I feel like most people appreciate Si and Ne. Not Se... And definitely not Fi.
Haha try local open mic nights. Artsy fartsy stuff. Go get your fortune read by a palm reader/tarot reader. Good chance she'll be IEIlol
Oh yeah tools of the trade but higher chance he will get an ESE, SEE, EIE or IEE gypsy type. At least that has been my experience, irl. Maybe if he finds one online (who may or may not be available for weeks at a time) it might be a legit IEI. lol
I think I had an ESI read my cards once. I felt scolded after.
^ Edit: she said I wasn't living right.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Yeah. The whole I = Introversion S = Sensing etc thing is dumb.
Some MBTIs are more hidden than others ;D
Depends on where you work? And who you hang out with, I guess.
Open mic is as far as I'll go, lol. Tarot reading is bull, to me xPHaha try local open mic nights. Artsy fartsy stuff. Go get your fortune read by a palm reader/tarot reader. Good chance she'll be IEI
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Probably because Se can immediately change your internal physical state (Si). People become conditioned like dogs to seek Se objects that feel pleasurable, especially types with strong Si. Generally, Si tends to polarise one's perception of the material world, according to how it feels inside.
Types with weak Si but strong Ni (all intuitives) experience the material world more neutrally. This is because most of their attention is on mental symbols of the real world, on their past and future development. Ni, being something of a visual overlay, can also both enhance the effect of se, and reduce it, depending on how the symbols are changing. So it can act like an anesthetic (or an aphrodisiac).
Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 06-16-2015 at 06:00 AM.
Don't forget Se-POLRs who like to blame things going wrong on their lack of Se!
And also maybe it is cos of society: it's all of the leadership/individualism/capitalism ideals but without being too cerebral like Te seems. It's also good at dealing with pressure and fighting for oneself - which people (well, I) have been able to avoid by being "coddled"/protected for my past 20 years.
Warm Regards,
Clowns & Entropy
If I really get what you're trying to say, it is because of the following: humans, until they attain some sort of spiritual awakening, or better said, until they have some sort of real spiritual experience, which may be personality-conscious or personality-unconscious, are driven by the Will to Power, this Will the author F. Nietzsche based his work on, and he was widely misunderstood as supporting it. After there is the awakening or the 'light-bringing' into the personality, this may be either through conscious or unconscious processes, then the human being is basically driven to Wisdom and Love, and Understanding which is part of Wisdom. So, Se is widely regarded as 'positive' because it implies power, but not the true Power. After the soul has began pouring its influence on the personality level, then it can be said the individual may choose between pursuing Power first or Love first. Then Power has a whole different dimension to it and is worthy calling it Power, and it has its toll also. But before the individual has gained Wisdom and Love to some measure, the most primitive instincts tell him to achieve power over others, and strength to survive, and basically this most animistic primitive part has its control over the human being until some spiritual awakening happens. The Power that may come after a spiritual development has begun is also related to Se in a sense, but in a completely different manner.
These reasons you cited above are also a big motive why people tend to invest so much their time and value so much Se and Te. These can also be seen as part of the western mentality: individualism and money. Money is power, therefore in the end to have power you need money, and if you have power you have money in society, but not real power. This is the distinction I make between real Power and power in society. Real Power is an influx of Will energy, it energizes and is electrical and fiery by nature, can only be understood in terms of experience with it, while society-power is money and is also an influx of energy but material by nature.
honestly, depends on where you are / where you belong etc.
when i was in uni there was a huge bias towards Ne and Fi, team-work team-building crap and being part of extra-curricular activities and competitions and everything. the SLEs were most definitely outcasts. even i was an outcast, because i refused to be a part of the IEE "groupthink" but i had an easier time fitting into the study environment than SLEs and LSIs. IEI friend almost dropped out of uni because of lack of support or direction (and i think he really needed more Se professors and motivators etc). so i really don't think it's fair to say Se is desired in every context in society. just for reference, i was an ECE grad, which is one of the more challenging and technical majors.
likewise, separately an IEE friend who is a business grad, was very well integrated into his study environment and made loads of friends and is moving forward very quickly in his job. i don't know much about what sort of environment he was surrounded with but again, it would be unfair to say his IEE-ness wasn't valued.
soooo it really depends. i now work for an IT thing and a good majority of people here are alpha / delta, with a few betas and gammas. the betas stick out from afar because Se is such a weird unusual thing here. you can't really make a blanket statement like this IMO.
i will concede that while i was in uni i was friends with mostly outcasts because i related more to that, so my friends were an SEI and LSI, and i was friendly with a lot of betas whom i got to know through these two people. and within those contexts often i felt like all of my Fi or Ne was being stiffled. when i was surrounded by 3 SLEs and two ILEs and one SEI (which often happened), i couldn't really say anything that others thought was of value. so it depends.
I don't know. I'm not going to University, nor do I plan on going. A lot of the work here seems Beta driven; a lot of my groups seem Beta driven, and I am a Beta, so I must see some bias towards Se. It seems a lot of our courses are hands-on based. Maybe it's me being a teenager also, that things seem more Se-driven than they should. I'm sure as I get older, things won't. My part of society seems very Se-Based, and very desired, imo.
If I went to University, I would probably find it shit. In school, I was relatively smart, but I hated it. It didn't seem the correct environment for a Beta. Everything was theoretical, and pushed onto us. No flexibility and freedom, couldn't wait to leave. I'm not bad at technical things, but I prefer to be flexible and work on many different things. see different things etc.
I haven't had a proper spiritual experience, as of yet, but I have had a few quasi ones. None of them have changed my life to the extent where I can say that I have had a 'spiritual awakening' in that context, or a heightened sense of spiritual awareness. I haven't had 'light' brought into my personality, but I can see how Se can be implied as 'powerful' in both a psychical and spiritual sense, and can see how religious leaders can even desire it in the form of spirits. I see your point, but I can't fully comment on it, due to lack of experience.
might be, in usa extraversion is desired, in japan introversion is desired. It just depends.
Sure, I have met tarot readers that were obviously Se base (looking back) but they had their own way of interpreting the cards. It is a skill that can be taught like any other and interpreted with or without the aid of intuition.In NYC there was a fortune teller every few blocks and they weren't all intuitive types. A lot of them were Romani though and usually women.
Never try to trick a gypsy.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Yeah, in Britain (not just England), extroversion and sensation seems a lot more desired than in say Asia. Asians tend to value hard work, dedication, loyalty and introversion a lot more than the Western world does. I think it also depends on the average age and demographics of that given population.
Yeah, I guess so, in the same sense that being psychic is taught, eh? ;D Never trick a gypsy?Sure, I have met tarot readers that were obviously Se base (looking back) but they had their own way of interpreting the cards. It is a skill that can be taught like any other and interpreted with or without the aid of intuition.
Never try to trick a gypsy.Will she go after me? Kill me?
i understand. and i guess you see that it's only a very small portion of the world that you're in.
i just wanted to refute the claim that there is an Se craze, or if it's desired by a majority. in my surroundings right now, the majority seems to be Ne/Si valuing. and i guess it's different for different contexts, so there's always this certain relativism involved.
Where is this Ne/Si being valued? San Francisco? Silicon Valley? Not here anyway...
Yeah, probably why.
Because se suggestive ones get hooked on it as if it was pure drugs, sometimes we have an impression that se leads can do the impossible within the physical world, similar to what we can generate in our heads but not able to implement in reality. It's totally addictive.
Why? what happens?
Never try to trick a gypsy.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yeah, I guess so, in the same sense that being psychic is taught, eh? ;D Never trick a gypsy?
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I agree with @blackburry, I think Si is more desired in "society"... Se creatives, however, who are proficient in Si as well as Se, do well I think, better than ESXps. I've noticed this in my LSI partner, who naturally draws to him NFs of both beta and delta. NTs take a bit longer, I think they recognize that they have to compromise on their logical function a bit around him, but they're also usually Si-starved so that wins out.
Personally, I don't like dealing with NF males, and sometimes I don't like NT males either, so it's nice to leave that to him.
Last edited by bolong; 06-16-2015 at 05:42 PM.
Because its description sucks
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
In Brazil where I live, I'd say the most desired IEs are Fe, Se and Te, on this order. Te is valued as in work, perhaps I live in a big Te-first 'island' in Brazil which is the city of São Paulo, here business and money and work come first. And here Extroversion is also highly valued. I'd type this 12 million-people city as ENTj. Definitely Gamma with an Se-hidden agenda. Enneagram 3w4.
haven't noticed an "Se craze" thing, but as others mentioned, maybe it can seem that way online due to the preponderance of IEIs and other intuitives & introverts on typology forums. online there's also a lot of Withdrawn enneagram types and so-last instincts.
here in 'Merica, Se is certainly valued, but along with Te. right now i'm in a job-seeking stage, and everything is about competing against others (between individuals, companies, organizations), building up a "well-rounded" resume with a ton of activities and accomplishments, all with emphasis on making making as much money as possible. on your resume and cover letters, you're expected to emphasize all your accomplishments (i.e. brag) and "sell yourself". you gotta look like an extroverted, busy person with a positive attitude who can do anything and everything! it's stressful, really....
my friend living in Sweden (a Delta, non-Se-valuing country) says if you ever tried bragging about yourself when applying for a job, people would think you're an ass and you'd never get hired.
i think Western culture as a whole is pretty Te-valuing right now, but there can be a big difference between Gamma and Delta if you're looking at integral types of countries/cultures.
Yeah I totally hear you there. I hate that whole having to "brag" thing too...
I defnitely felt the push to be involved in a ton of activities back when i was in school, but I've found over time that that it's better when you have fewer but more substantial things on your resume, it goes a longer way and not as diluted. I think employers & admissions committees value when you show a real commitment to something and follow through on things and maybe make a real difference in some way, rather than being too spread thin. I personally feel more fulfilled when i can do that too, and bringing something to completion, instead of having a million things going on, none of which i can get really good at or finish. (I had an ex-boss recently that was CRAY CRAY that way, loading me up with a million projects i couldn't really finish -- I can't stand that!!ditched him).
that said, idk what field you're in... maybe it's different for what you're trying to do idk... i'd think it would be a fairly general sentiment though.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
They are trying to be worthy of recognition. Stating their merits. F om Se perspective it's facts and evidence. From Te it's"look at my actions and what I've been able to do."
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yeah, in a sense I agree. But is that not the other way around? Does Te not like to present facts and evidence, and Se actions and accomplishments?
Yeah, I guess so. Social as a last? I don't think that means much though. So is my last/second last, and I like to be social.
Yeah, same here. They want you to have a load of achievements, sell yourself in your CV, and appear a confident, active, friendly person who'll enjoy their job.
Really? Dang. No-one here would do well in Sweden.
Delta and Gamma? Hm. I still seem to see a lot of Betas here. My Dad is Delta/Gamma (ExTJ, not sure).
Nope.
Yes, Se can be addictive. I can see how people can think it's wonderful in a psychical sense, but sometimes it's nice to give it a break and focus on other Functions.
I do not suffer fools gladly.
Example...Se ...when I was living in Pasadena I had a nice house. It was a half a million dollar home and a big pool. But, I hated the neighbors.
Te..."I fixed it and this looks good on me. I can fly these things and one day I will."
The Se is descriing the properties of the object...the house, big, worth, the size of the pool and the people from a relationship view Fi
The Fe is stating the action and HOW it is or will be received as the method has already been determined.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 06-17-2015 at 04:23 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oh, I see. How would Ti come into account from the relationship point of view? And Ni?
I do not suffer fools gladly.
I don't desire it as in big picture: My life would have been easier if there was very little demand for it. On the other if there is a demand and you can not alter the reality or day dream till you die then... I can honestly say that it starts to bug me when being exposed to it for longer periods of time but sometimes even occasional but strong reference of it is enough (Someone: Look at that Mercedes/ass, Me: pfft, whatever).
Example of imaginary vision colored with Se heavy result:
Imagine that in the end of tunnel you are living in a big house and you are above all else. Those things makes me go ballistic sometimes.
When it comes to MBTI I don't know whether those statistics are based on tests or actually interviewing persons. In a way IXXX categories in MBTI are pretty messed up. J/P (even when not taken into account) seems to be very confusing even among the pros. I have seen thesis that just makes people do the official test and groups them after that and bases evaluation on that. Horrendous practice.
Fi from EII: I love you. We are good friends
Ni ILI; my husband has a 10am appointment so he has to get moving now otherwise he'll be late.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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