Enneagram type 9w1 vs. 9w8 question

[Eliza Thomason]

Somewhere, I think, I read that one way to tell 9w1 from 9w8 is that when things go wrong, 9w1 will say that they messed up, and 9w8 will say something outside of themselves messed up (circumstances, the environment etc.). But I do not know where I saw this. I thought here on 16t somewhere. Does anyone know?

[Galen]

9w1s will often have a certain best friend / teacher's pet vibe, more accommodating to the situations they find themselves in. 9w8s are perhaps more interpersonally aloof by comparison, more bent on doing their own thing and not letting the outside world bog them down in trivialities.

Good comparison between a w1 and w8 respectively:

[suedehead]

I relate to what you said about 9w8 more.

I think 9w1 usually has more indignant/judgmental anger, while 9w8 has more violent anger. The former's more self-critical. Like if a 9w1 has an outburst, they're probably more likely to feel apologetic or a sense that they 'shouldn't' have done it, or if they don't feel guilty try to justify it. Whereas a 9w8 would probably just move on, although it's not always that clear-cut.

[Eliza Thomason]

9w1s will often have a certain best friend / teacher's pet vibe, more accommodating to the situations they find themselves in. 9w8s are perhaps more interpersonally aloof by comparison, more bent on doing their own thing and not letting the outside world bog them down in trivialities.

Good comparison between a w1 and w8 respectively:

That is so cool that Nick Hofferman is a 9w8 because I really like him! I like to watch him on Parks and recreation and watch all his scenes closely. Do you think he is SLI-Si?? Do you have any ideas what Socionics type is Amy Poehler's Leslie Knope? I sometimes wonder if it isn't IEE-Fi!

[Galen]

That is so cool that Nick Hofferman is a 9w8 because I really like him! I like to watch him on Parks and recreation and watch all his scenes closely. Do you think he is SLI-Si??

I lot of people seem to assume SLI for him, but I'm undecided between either SXI.

[Eliza Thomason]

I lot of people seem to assume SLI for him, but I'm undecided between either SXI.

Oh, so that woudl be SEI. Hmm. Seems more dry, like, I do not see the soft warmth of SEI, in the face. Thought there is a certain softness to the SLI face. But SEI has such a mildness.

[Galen]

Oh, so that woudl be SEI. Hmm. Seems more dry, like, I do not see the soft warmth of SEI, in the face. Thought there is a certain softness to the SLI face. But SEI has such a mildness.

I think what I'm seeing is not so much a softness as an awareness of his social surroundings, particularly in that Conan interview. He doesn't say much, but he's clearly aware of how he's coming off to the audience and knows how to play with it. That could just as easily be some So-first shenanigans at play though.

[silke]

Somewhere, I think, I read that one way to tell 9w1 from 9w8 is that when things go wrong, 9w1 will say that they messed up, and 9w8 will say something outside of themselves messed up (circumstances, the environment etc.). But I do not know where I saw this. I thought here on 16t somewhere. Does anyone know?

I don't recall seeing those profiles, but by this conceptualization of how ego boundaries are maintained by each type it might be onto something, with pt.1 collapsing onto itself exercising self-control and pt.8 pushing outwardly to control the environment. I've found that taking note of this externally expansive, boundary-rattling energy is a good method to distinguish core and wing-8s from other similar types.



http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...neagram-Triads

In features and presentation the 9w8s have something darkish and raider-like about them, while 9w1s look more unassuming and prim (my small collection 9w1 vs 9w8).

[Beautiful sky]

I relate to what you said about 9w8 more.

I think 9w1 usually has more indignant/judgmental anger, while 9w8 has more violent anger. The former's more self-critical. Like if a 9w1 has an outburst, they're probably more likely to feel apologetic or a sense that they 'shouldn't' have done it, or if they don't feel guilty try to justify it. Whereas a 9w8 would probably just move on, although it's not always that clear-cut.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Perhaps this is a natural distinction due to an extroversion vs. introversion plus a 9 focus?

[Froody Blue Gem]

9 is of the withdrawn triad so both fall under this category. 8 is the only of the gut triad that is comfortable in their anger, so this plays an undertone with 9 with an 8 wing. 9w8 is the more assertive out of the two subtypes. A 9w1 would be more at odds and in denial of anger than a 9w8 would, and 9w1s are less likely to rock the boat. The 8 wing brings a side of strength while still being agreeable.

9w1s may also have a side, focussed on principles. 9w1s are more slow to anger, keep things bottled up inside until it explodes, while 9w8s are quicker to speak up for themselves. The 1 wings makes for being more in-tuned to social expectations.

[maniac]

I wouldn't say that's not a reliable way of looking at it. In general 8-wings are more assertive around their own peace of mind, and more chaotic - 1-wing are more stern, idealistic (I think both wings are dreamy though because of the core 9). 1-wing are probably more prone to depression and anxiety because 1 is self-critical and disintegrates to 4, while 8 is more focused on their own free will and autonomy and thus more capable of numbing themselves without caring.

heres a description from Riso & Hudson:

The Nine with an Eight-Wing

The traits of the Nine and those of an Eight-wing conflict with each other: Nines are passive and desire harmony with others, while Eights are aggressive, asserting themselves and following their self-interest. Since Nine is the basic personality type, people of this subtype tend to be fundamentally oriented to others, receptive, unselfconscious, passive and so forth, while some part of them asserts itself strongly, at least at times. This is one of the most difficult subtypes to understand because the component types are in such diametrical opposition to each other. Noteworthy examples of this subtype include Dwight Eisenhower, Gerald Ford, Ingrd Bergman, Bing Crosby, Perry Como, George Shultz, Walter Cronkite, Hugh Downs, Lady Bird Johnson, and Marc Chagall.

In healthy persons of this subtype, the Eight-wing adds an element of inner strength and willpower, as well as an expansive passionate quality to the overall style of personality. Despite their unselfconsciousness, healthy people of this subtype are able to assert temselves effectively; despite their graciousness and concern for others, they can be quite strong and forceful; despite their ability to subordinate themselves to others and to common goals they can be courageously independent; despite an easygoing manner, they can have formidable tempers, although these are rarely resorted to. Thus, healthy persons of this subtype, give the impression of strength and good nature, sensuality and power.

Average people of this subtype compartmentalize their emotions completely. While their self-image is one of peacefulness, they may occasionally be quite aggressive without realiing the extent of it. They can be complacent, even lazy, about achieving success in some areas of their lives, while being extremly competitive in others. If they are not intellectually gifted, they may seem slightly slow-witted - good-natured, but thick-headed - because neither the Nine nor the Eight is a particularly intellectual or thinking component. These people have strong elemental drives for psychological and sexual union with the other. Their self-interest is bound up with material comfort. When their protective instincts are aroused, they do not wish to hurt others so much as protect themselves and their property. Average persons of this subtype can become belligerent and confrontational toward others, but with little long-lasting personal animosity. Their greatest ire is aroused against those who attack their families, their beliefs, or their way of life. But once the crisis has past, they are apt to sue for peace, making allies of their former enemies.

Unhealthy Nines with an Eight-wing are capable of violence with little concern about the consequences of their actions. Aggressions and id impulses are strong in people of this subtype, and there is little superego or conscience to regulate these forces. Their aggressions may be particularly aroused by sexual jealousy of their spouses. Separation from a loved one through the alienation of affections is devestating to the Nine's sense of self and inflames the Eight's rage out of wounded pride. As a result, Nines with an Eight-wing can be physically dangerous, striking out impulsively. They may retaliate against those with whom they have come into clonflict while dissociating themselves emotionally from the harm they do.

The Nine with a One-Wing

The traits of the Nine and those of the One-wing tend to reinforce each other. Nines repress their emotions to maintain their peace, while Ones repress their emotions to maintain self-control. In this subtype we see people who are more emotionally controlled and cooler than those in the other subtype, although they may well display moments of anger and moral indignation. Noteworthy examples of this subtype include Ronald Reagan, Corazon Aquino, Abraham Lincoln, Queen Elizabeth II, Rosalynn Carter, Cyrus Vance, Henry Fonda, Gary Cooper, Jimmy Stewart, David Hartman, Princess Grace of Monaco, Rose Kennedy, Jim Henson, Walt Disney, Norman Rockwell, Dame Joan Sutherland, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Desdemona, Edith Bunker, and Mary Hartman.

Healthy persons of this subtype possess enormous integrity and are extremely principled. Their great common sense helps them be wise in their judgements, particularly about others. They are alert to issues of fairness and objectivity when they are called on to act or judge siuations. The One-wing adds a thinking component to this subtype, balancing the Nine's unselfconscious, receptive orientation. Healthy people here are interested in sharing what they know and appreciate the ideas and discoveries of others. They enjoy teaching and may be moral leaders, teaching most effectively by their example. The Nine's openness is combined with the One's objectivity; the result is simplicity and guilelessness toward others, peacefulness and moderation toward themselves.

Average persons of this subtype may be crusaders of some sort because they have an idealistic streak which makes them want to improve the world in whatever ways they can. They are sure of their opinions and usually have fixed conventional and conservative ideas about everything thta touches on their basic beliefs. People of this subtype tend to be orderly and self-controlled, particularly more emotionally controlled and less openly passionate that Nines with an Eight-wing. They can also be quite busy organizing the environment or planning its organization by others, while maintaining the motional disconnectedness characteristic of average Nines. Complacent and disengaged, they want to avoid all personal conflicts and antagonisms, but may be easily moved to anger since there is a testiness and edginess in this subtype. They may rationalize, moralize, or appeal to political, class, or religious ideologies to bloster their arguments. They can also be surprisingly impersonal and callous in their disregard for others, since average persons of this subtype abstract from the real world a great deal in favor of their idealistic notions.

Unhealthy persons of this subtype can be punitive toward others. They can become extremely angry, although in a highly compartmentalized way, acting impulsively, as if out of the blue. They are more resentful than Nines with an Eight-wing stewing over wrongs and injustices. If they act, unhealthy Nines with a One-wing can become quite arbitrary, contradicting their more ordinary behavior. Obsessive-compulsive tendencies are among their neurotic traits, and unhealthy persons of this subtype may become obsessive about their apparent troubles while dissociating themselves from either their compulsive actions or their real problems. They may, for example, decide to forget what has just been the focus of their obsession as if nothing had happened. Because defense mechanisms are less global than in the other subtype, neurotics here will tend to feel their conflicts more and will therefore be more likely to have severe emotional problems or breakdowns if they become very unhealthy.