Carl Jung as Logical-sensory Intratim ISTj

[tcaudilllg]

There is evidence enough that the translations are sound. If you don't believe me...

http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?...=676&Itemid=41

Must I make my case further?

In summary, Jung was the absolute emotional force: the living incarnation of human culture and interpersonal relations, and the driver of it in society against the countervailing force of logical reason, which compells one to do away with all such notions. The purity of this force allowed him to synthesize a primitive thought process that draws its being from those who come to him seeking understanding of him. He IS the collective unconscious.

Socionics does not account for the possibilities that people can live as distinct "force", and yet we see exceptional personalities each with their own peculiar, unusual appearances shaping our history. Einstein, ******, Jung, Clinton, Reagan, Karl Rove, the list goes on. If we look hard enough, we see people around us who act similarly to them, and who look very, very similar to them. Simply put, sixteen types, although a start, only begins to explain the motivations of history's great figures, and why they did what they did. Many people work hard, and luck alone doesn't explain the difference between "them" and "the rest."

Why Cindy Sheehan? Why is she seen as a threat to Bush against all the others who despise him for the loss of their children? What makes her different? If Socions is to be taken seriously it MUST answer these questions.

[Angel von Himmel]

There is evidence enough that the translations are sound. If you don't believe me...

http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?...=676&Itemid=41

Must I make my case further?

Yes, give us some examples of his writting style as they correspond between German and English both grammitically and linguistically, which was my origional assertion.

Also, this does not answer my other questions.

[tcaudilllg]

By all means, answer that question yourself.

Your other questions?

[Rocky]

Hmm.. I'm bringing this back up in light of new "insight" into Jung's type. One of them is this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093...lance&n=283155

Let's first take the review/overview:

From Publishers Weekly
In today's marketplace, books on or about spiritual therapies of all kinds are getting to be as common and, to many, as irresistible as potato chips. This succinct, gorgeously illustrated portrait of Carl Jung stands out, however, as a reminder of the profundity and singularity of Jung's achievement. Irish-born, Australian transplant Dunne (People Under the Skin, etc.) captures Jung's immense personal power and intuition, attributing it (as Jung did) to his "archaic nature," his rootedness to the earth and to the primal layers of the unconscious. Deftly interweaving letters and commentary with an extraordinary array of 150 ancient and contemporary images, including three of Jung's paintings from his private journal, the unpublished "Red Book," Dunne helps readers grasp Jung's insight that the divine contains both light and dark, and thatDas a 79-year-old Jung wroteD"A 'complete' life does not consist in a theoretical completeness, but in the fact that one accepts, without reservation, the particular fatal tissue in which one finds oneself embedded." In her introduction, psychologist Jean Houston affirms that this great modern explorer of inner life uncovered "the mythic foundations" of our individual lives and showed how the archetypal code of myth is meant to help humans "advance along an evolutionary path that carries us nearer to the spiritual source." This clear, luminous volume shows that Jung himself evolved. By the end of his life, he was not just a psychologist nor even a visionary artist but an alchemist who understood that what is highest and what is deepest in us are inextricably tethered. 50 color and 100 b&w illustrations. Author tour.

JUNG SAID HIMSELF THAT HIS INTUITION WAS "ARCHAIC" IN NATURE!!

It also says that Jung was "rooted" to the Earth, hmm...

Now, on to the short excert, we can pick out a few things that hint towards his type. The author begins with stating that Jung also was a self-perclaimed "empyricist" (which is what I've been trying to say all along...). Then, it goes on to say that Jung was both "earth-rooted" and "spiritual" in nature, attributing one to the inner world, and the other to the outter. Those sound like exactly like someone who has Se-Ni Quadra values (wait, didn't I say that before, too?). Then, it continues on, talking about how Jung had a fear of being close to women. A clear sign of a logical type, but more specifically, a Ti dominant type, because Jung wrote something similar about himself that he did in the Introvert Thinking description. Here are two quotes, one is personal, the other taken from "Psychological Types":

From then on, I was always mistrusful when the word "love" was spoken. The feeling I associated with "woman" was for a long time that of innate unreliability. "Father", on the other hand, meant reliability- and powerlessness. That is the handicap I started off with. Later the early impression were revised; I have trusted men friends and have been disappointed by them; and I have mistrusted women and was not disappointed.

The various measures of self-defence, the curious protective obstacles with which such people are wont to surround themselves, are sufficiently familiar, and I may, therefore, spare myself a description of them. They all serve as a defence against 'magical' influences; a vague dread of the other sex also belongs to this category.

The last thing that I can grab off of that page is that Jung had an intense love of nature, a relationship with plants, animals, earth, etc...





And I just wanted to throw this one out there again, VI. I'd like to point out that Jung shares several similarities with the man Gregor Mendel, whom I've mentioned before. This is a little about Mendel:

http://braintypes.com/jon.htm

And here are the pictures:

[Kreatuv]

I have to admit... he reminds me a lot of my ISTj father in the way he stands and presents himself. Especially in the last photograph.

[Rocky]

I have to admit... he reminds me a lot of my ISTj father in the way he stands and presents himself. Especially in the last photograph.

McNew said the same thing about his ISTJ/LSI father.

[tcaudilllg]

You've made a good choice in identifying Mendel as an ISTp. I think you're right on the money. He has the "Bob Dole" look, which is characteristic of most ISTps.

But I could have said those same things about my own childhood in large part. I think the childhood experiences Jung describes are in no way different from those of most people. (absent the parental problems, of course)

Something that's been on my mind: Jung says he was shocked by a childhood dream in which God defectated on a church. Question: how did he know it was God who was doing the defecating...?

[Rocky]

You've made a good choice in identifying Mendel as an ISTp. I think you're right on the money. He has the "Bob Dole" look, which is characteristic of most ISTps.

Actually, I think he was a Logical-sensory Introvert (ISTJ). And you don't think Jung looks like him?

But I could have said those same things about my own childhood in large part. I think the childhood experiences Jung describes are in no way different from those of most people. (absent the parental problems, of course)

But then why was he described in the book as being both earthy-rooted and spirituality centered?

Something that's been on my mind: Jung says he was shocked by a childhood dream in which God defectated on a church. Question: how did he know it was God who was doing the defecating...?

Because it was a dream? You can picture anything you want happening in your dreams. How does this relate to his type?

[Gilly]

Although I used to think Jung was INTJ for sure, I have to say that Rocky definitely has put forth a reasonable argument. But the most information does not necessarily constitute the best.

As for the people attacking Rocky, please, shut your giant, ignorant mouths; you're not bringing anything to the discussion unless you can present logic with information to back it up.

However, I've met plenty of ISTJs, and in no way have any of them ever had fear of physical activity. ISTJs have been said to be the most gifted and successful individual athletes because of their discipline, excellent spatial perception, and stubornness/relentlessness. Not saying that this refutes your point, but it is something to consider.

The thing that convinces me the most is the VI, strangely enough. If you look at pictures of any INTp or INTj, they always seem to have the spacey, far-off look so common with intuitives. Or at least not the harsh, accusing glare that Jung shows off so much.

Oh, and Rocky, you seem to have missed two things about that article you presented. For one, it was written by an Amazon.com employee who probably knows nothing about psychology. Secondly, it says that Jung has an "immense intuition," which wouldn't exactly imply a sensing type.

[Rocky]

Although I used to think Jung was INTJ for sure, I have to say that Rocky definitely has put forth a reasonable argument. But the most information does not necessarily constitute the best.

As for the people attacking Rocky, please, shut your giant, ignorant mouths; you're not bringing anything to the discussion unless you can present logic with information to back it up.

Thank you.

However, I've met plenty of ISTJs, and in no way have any of them ever had fear of physical activity. ISTJs have been said to be the most gifted and successful individual athletes because of their discipline, excellent spatial perception, and stubornness/relentlessness. Not saying that this refutes your point, but it is something to consider.

Well, according to BrainTypes, ISTJs aren't really good athletes at all. He (an ISTJ himself) claims that all of the J types have poor spatial awarness. The ISTP is known as the "athlete".

The thing that convinces me the most is the VI, strangely enough. If you look at pictures of any INTp or INTj, they always seem to have the spacey, far-off look so common with intuitives. Or at least not the harsh, accusing glare that Jung shows off so much.

Yeah, I know, it's hard to stare in his eyes and see him as an intuitive.

[Rocky]

Oh, and Rocky, you seem to have missed two things about that article you presented. For one, it was written by an Amazon.com employee who probably knows nothing about psychology. Secondly, it says that Jung has an "immense intuition," which wouldn't exactly imply a sensing type.

Well, it says that the Author of the book attributes Jung's intuiton to an "archaic" nature, and claims that Jung said the same thing himself when it says, "As Jung did".