ENFj Actor and ISTp perception of him/her

[IcEPiCk]

I think the ENFJ has the ability to mimic how other's metabolise their information temporarily. This gives the ENFj a unique ability.

The ISTp is frustrated by this talent which he cannot achieve. Perhaps the ISTp is even in a way threatened by it. Thats just what I think is one of the sources of conflict between ISTps and ENFjs..

Any comments?

[Kristiina]

I think you might be right. I can't really take over other people's functions. I'm not like Rogue from X-man, who just switches between super powers. I don't feel like I can adjust myself to every situation and to every group of people. At the same time, I sometimes feel like other people see me doing that. People that barely know me see me as someone I am not. When I first came to this forum and when I started talking with people, many thought that I could actually be their dual. I think I subconsciously gave them what they were looking for. They changed their minds when they started to see the Fe/Se traits.

I observe people and I choose how to behave with each individual group of people. I behave like a regular introvert at first, because I need to know what makes the other person react. Then I start talking about things in a way that won't make them react in a negative way. I don't want to let the conversation die. I behave introvered and calm when I talk to the ESFj, I have silly chaotic joyful moments with the INTp, I get productively active moments with the INFj. In a way I feel like it's nothing special. Everyone adjusts their behavior to the other person. Mostly I can only mimic j types and sometimes my "real" personality shows. That's when other people might feel disappointed in me.

I think ISTps might dislike it because I can fool them. ISTps want me to take care of their Fi, but I would only "pretend" to give them Fi, although it means nothing to me. I know that I strongly dislike it when someone fakes Ti to me and gives me a defective Ti-system. The moment I find mistakes in the system I lose all trust in anything that the person has ever told me. I also lose some (or all) respect for the other person's "intelligence".

[Reuben]

I think you might be right. I can't really take over other people's functions.

Oui.

[IcEPiCk]

I think the ENFj can mostly immitate J types because they are used to being around other J types for the most part. I know this seems like a lack of honesty to the ISTp. Also many other people fall for it, and if the ISTp doesnt the ENFj gets made and distrustful of the ISTp. Am I correct about this statement? What makes ENFjs ticked about us ISTps (i know we piss people off in general sometimes lol).

[Reuben]

Unlike ISTj's, ISTp's do not give ENFj's a sense of reassurance.

The distrusting attitude of the ISTp pushes away the ENFj, who fears that his true self will be revealed upon communication with the ISTp.

I should assume that the true self of an ENFj will either be looked down upon or completely destroyed by the ISTp. An ISTp's quietness hides a strong sense of power that ENFj's fear; it is as if their feelings will be judged and all insincerity punished with brute force.

However, ISTp's prefer Si over Se, thus punishment seems to be an unlikely action on the part of the ISTp.

In this light, it is highly likely that a bare-naked ENFj will be able to get along with an ISTp - in silence.

[IcEPiCk]

when an ENFj gets into 'dramatic' mode... and becomes very emotional and all over the place it makes me very comfortable and I feel like leaving the situation.

[Reuben]

When an ISTp gets silent and absorbed, it makes me feel uncomfortable.

In fact just to screw around with myself, I sat next to my ISTp group member like a little dog.

Me: ... [contemplates]...
ISTp: What are you doing?
Me: ...Nothing...
ISTp: You're staying here for nothing. Don't you want to go home?
Me: ...Uh...
ISTp: Do you want to do this? (passes me some work)
Me: ...uh ok...
ISTp: (seeing that I honestly don't want to do my work) Ok nevermind I think I'll do it.
Me: You sure?
ISTp: (slightly miffed that I'm still putting up the facade of wanting to do the work) Nah it's ok.
Me: ...[contemplates]...
ISTp: You're weird. I think you should go home.
Me: Ok.

when an ENFj gets into 'dramatic' mode... and becomes very emotional and all over the place it makes me very comfortable and I feel like leaving the situation.

Perhaps I was wrong, ENFj's and ISTp's are like magnets facing each other with their respective north poles. I feel sorry for myself that I can't help but poke an ISTp's PoLR. Makes me feel biPolR. Haha I'm funny.

[IcEPiCk]

lol i like the explanation of 2 magnets repelling each other!

[Reuben]

I feel like saying "thx, i love you (:" because it's the 'right' thing.

But no seriously.

I feel like saying "Ha I thought of it first. Blehh " because I'm from beta.

I feel sorry for myself.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[ScarlettLux]

Yeah, that's what I'd like to know.

[UDP]

I know that I strongly dislike it when someone fakes Ti to me and gives me a defective Ti-system. The moment I find mistakes in the system I lose all trust in anything that the person has ever told me. I also lose some (or all) respect for the other person's "intelligence".

I can relate. (Directly, and indirectly)

I suppose it is the same way with Fe and F in general -- I am very wary of all forms of F that are show towards me, and the more I see inconsistencies or "faultiness" of F in other people, the less I feel comfortable relating to them.

[Reuben]

When the verdict of my type was laid out plainly by IcEPiCK one night.

He is ISTp.

He can see through the lies, the emotional fabrications, and every other thing else that I ignorantly made up. and.

And he made me see who I was.

So though we may repel like magnets with fields far too strongly

deflecting each other,

Thanks dude.

[Exodus]

WHAT.

Curious, why not INFp? (Feel free to move the discussion.)

[IcEPiCk]

The topic of blueblade's type can be discussed here: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10717

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[IcEPiCk]

ISTp's are very skeptical... We might be the hardest to fool when it comes to that stuff... Though Ive had it happen to me before

[Exodus]

ISTp's are very skeptical... We might be the hardest to fool when it comes to that stuff... Though Ive had it happen to me before

That's just a nice way of saying you're oblivious to it (Fe).

[IcEPiCk]

I just said its happened to me before, but I can catch it often.

How is that a) a 'nice' way of saying that?
b) saying I am obvlivious?

[Exodus]

I was trying to say I think it is likely that as an IxTp your immunity to Fe deception is fundamentally a consequence of weakness in Fe. Similarly INjs like to think of themselves as hard to push around, but this is due to total avoidance of Se rather than strong Se. This is kind of an interesting aspect of the PoLR.

[IcEPiCk]

was trying to say I think it is likely that as an IxTp your immunity to Fe deception is fundamentally a consequence of weakness in Fe. Similarly INjs like to think of themselves as hard to push around, but this is due to total avoidance of Se rather than strong Se. This is kind of an interesting aspect of the PoLR.

Wow that makes a lot more sense, nice...

So ENFj is immune to Si? How can you be immune to an introverted function? Its not projected on others is it? I gotta dig deeper on this one.

[Reuben]

We basically find ways to avoid bad Si experiences.

Just like how ISTp's avoid bad emotions by freezing their Fe into Fi with Si, into an iceberg like state, ENFj's avoid bad Si experiences by inflaming their Si into Se with Fe, into a raging-fire-like state.

An example of an ISTp freezing their negative Fe experience into Fi with Si:

Me: "[insert random rant about how screwed up life is] (negative Fe experience)"
ISTp: ...*hides negative emotions as brought out by me into his heart (Fe into Fi)*...*breathes in and out (Si)*...*walks away calmly (Si)*...

An ENFj in the position of the ISTp may react with empathy and swearing instead because he is not "immune" from negative Fe experiences, besides his Fe is so strong that he will be able to tough out the emotional pain of empathizing with me.

An example of an ENFj inflaming their negative Si experience into Se with Fe:

Me: *falls down and grazes myself (negative Si experience)*
"Blistering barnacles! Where's the toilet! (Fe)"
*immediately finds a place to wash the graze (Si into Se)*
"[insert rant about how dangerous the world is] (Fe)"

An ISTp in my position may simply sit around and let the wound pus and heal itself because he is not "immune" from the negative Si experiences, besides his Si is so strong he will be to tough out the physical pain of an infection.

[Kristiina]

haha. When I hit myself, I do something very similar.
"*gaaah* Owowow... *pout* (Fe) Why do they make the corners so sharp! (asker) It's designed to hurt people. Stupid door! (Se)"
So I turn the negative experience into about how I'm the victim of foul circumstances and about how the door/floor/banana peel is to blame for everything. I usually do show agression towards whatever made me feel pain.

[IcEPiCk]

Me: "[insert random rant about how screwed up life is] (negative Fe experience)"
ISTp: ...*hides negative emotions as brought out by me into his heart (Fe into Fi)*...*breathes in and out (Si)*...*walks away calmly (Si)*...

LOL when an ENFj teacher got mad at our class i became very uncomfortable, and I breathed heavier and sighed. my body language became very very rude to her some how and she talked to me after class giving me a stern warning about the future.

[Reuben]

Kristiina and IcEPiCK, you two made my day :wink:

she talked to me after class giving me a stern warning about the future

Lol. I remember something somewhere saying that ISTp's are thought to be juveniles and delinquents when they are young. Having an ENFj teacher to demonstrate that effect is rather awesome.

very uncomfortable, and I breathed heavier and sighed.

This process comes very naturally to an ISTp. Breathing helps to restore energy and remove waste products from the body. ISTps being very physically sensitive, will naturally do that when under stress. Especially under an ENFj's angry rant.

I find that, for some reason or another, very amusing

[Park]

Me: "[insert random rant about how screwed up life is] (negative Fe experience)"
ISTp: ...*hides negative emotions as brought out by me into his heart (Fe into Fi)*...*breathes in and out (Si)*...*walks away calmly (Si)*...

That's funny cause in a situation like that I 'll most likely agree that "life is screwed up" and I might keep on ranting endlessly so that you become seek of me.

That is, except if I am in a super-good mood, in which case I 'll just ignore your rant and do what you said.

[Kristiina]

very uncomfortable, and I breathed heavier and sighed.

......
This process comes very naturally to an ISTp. Breathing helps to restore energy and remove waste products from the body. ISTps being very physically sensitive, will naturally do that when under stress. Especially under an ENFj's angry rant.
....

Might be interesting to know that when I was in England, Electric kept telling me that I'm very tense - when I walked I didn't really let my hands just hang, I kept holding my hands in boxing-position. I, myself, didn't really notice that I'm tense. I thought I felt more comfortable than at any other time in England. I'm so preoccupied with how I feel and why I feel that way that I don't really remember to notice that my body language reflects my mood.

Fortunately I like Electric, he's very fun to talk with, otherwise I would have probably taken offence. PS! I liked him because at first I thought he was INTj - reacting to Fe. Then he laughed about it and said he wasn't (but he seemed very amused, so I figured he must be sure about it). Then I thought that he's either INTp or INFj. And I really couldn't decide. I mixed up his flexible IP temperament with Se-PoLR, that's why I kept thinking he was INxj. Then Expat said he thinks INTp/ISTp. Then I thought INTp. This is still a favorable relationship, so I still had a good opinion of him and I thought it's a mutual feeling, so I kept starting conversation and it was a lot of fun. On the last day it became clear that he was ISTp. Then I figured that maybe some ISTps aren't that bad after all. Oh, and in case your wondering, his "reacting to Fe" was just IP temperament so his state of mind was easy to affect. With most other people, it was like talking to a wall. No emotional shift what so ever! But that might also prove what I've been thinking about Fe-PoLR. One side of Fe PoLR is that my mood has the maximum effect on the people with IP temperament. My INTp fiancee is also easy to amuse with positive emotions, but nothing shields him against negative emotions. The rant was relevant to ENFj-ISTp relations, thanks for reading.

[Reuben]

Haha ISTp's are pretty kewl

[lefty]

I think the ENFJ has the ability to mimic how other's metabolise their information temporarily. This gives the ENFj a unique ability.

The ISTp is frustrated by this talent which he cannot achieve. Perhaps the ISTp is even in a way threatened by it. Thats just what I think is one of the sources of conflict between ISTps and ENFjs..

Any comments?

as an enfj i can certainly relate to the process youre describing. There must be some behavior, though, that opposes the ENFJ in the ISTP that is equally difficult to achieve? regardless if it is on the same kind of level.

[lefty]

I think the ENFj can mostly immitate J types because they are used to being around other J types for the most part. I know this seems like a lack of honesty to the ISTp. Also many other people fall for it, and if the ISTp doesnt the ENFj gets made and distrustful of the ISTp. Am I correct about this statement? What makes ENFjs ticked about us ISTps (i know we piss people off in general sometimes lol).

I dont know if i think of enfjs as mimicing. i could see one doing it to children. i think its less important to mimic than it is the internal experience of understanding someone elses perspective. I think itsps are thugs with no sense of what is delicate. they can be civlized but they're also brutes which bothers me to no end. I think its lacking in integrity. As a J you're a rational type and so of course you feel an affinity wth other rational types becuase you do processe information that way. carl jung established that there are fluid and crystalized thinkers. intps are not consistant, they are moody, and enfjs respond to the trustworthy type istj, security building and they admire strategy much more than tactics which seem cheap to the enfj in comaprison.

[lefty]

[quote="TheBlueBlade"]When an ISTp gets silent and absorbed, it makes me feel uncomfortable.

In fact just to screw around with myself, I sat next to my ISTp group member like a little dog.

Me: ... [contemplates]...
ISTp: What are you doing?
Me: ...Nothing...
ISTp: You're staying here for nothing. Don't you want to go home?
Me: ...Uh...
ISTp: Do you want to do this? (passes me some work)
Me: ...uh ok...
ISTp: (seeing that I honestly don't want to do my work) Ok nevermind I think I'll do it.
Me: You sure?
ISTp: (slightly miffed that I'm still putting up the facade of wanting to do the work) Nah it's ok.
Me: ...[contemplates]...
ISTp: You're weird. I think you should go home.
Me: Ok.

Fucking Istps.

[lefty]

When the verdict of my type was laid out plainly by IcEPiCK one night.

He is ISTp.

He can see through the lies, the emotional fabrications, and every other thing else that I ignorantly made up. and.

And he made me see who I was.

So though we may repel like magnets with fields far too strongly

deflecting each other,

Thanks dude.

Why should an ENFJ inuitive pretend to be humbled by a fucking hostile pea brained istp that needs to dismantle something he can't grasp? it should be the other way around.

[IcEPiCk]

lol yes pea brained istp... Left wow you're a prize.

Blueblade exadgerates I just told him I think he is ENFj and not ISTp and some of the reasons. It wasnt half as dramatic or manipulative as it sounds.

Get your head out of your ass lefty. I knew this would happen if I posted a thread here.

[lefty]

lol yes pea brained istp... Left wow you're a prize.

Blueblade exadgerates I just told him I think he is ENFj and not ISTp and some of the reasons. It wasnt half as dramatic or manipulative as it sounds.

Get your head out of your ass lefty. I knew this would happen if I posted a thread here.

oh really then why didn't your magnificent delta wisdom prevent you from doing it in the first place

[IcEPiCk]

what are you four years old? what is this quadra wars? fucken retard lol

[lefty]

what are you four years old? what is this quadra wars? fucken retard lol

i dont know. you're the one posting your mindless and counterproductive threads here.

[IcEPiCk]

you attacked first you dumb bitch... fucken drama queen you're pathetic. Fuck OFF. Im done feeding you whatever it is you need in your pathetic existance. Go try to find some purpose in your life you wandering twat.

[lefty]

you attacked first you dumb bitch... fucken drama queen you're pathetic. Fuck OFF. Im done feeding you whatever it is you need in your pathetic existance. Go try to find some purpose in your life you wandering twat.

you chose to post this thread. you dont like your feedback? that's your problem, pea brain.

[FDG]

Lefty,

you are insane.

[lefty]

Lefty,

you are insane.

well as an estp im sure that you know everything.

lefty
enfj
4w5