Male IEIs/INFps: what are they like? Your experiences.

[discojoe]

if i was rude
i would say you're dumb

If it was a joke, then fine, I'm dumb. Either way, it was horrible.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Either way, it was horrible.

No it wasn't.

You're silly.

[discojoe]

One day discojoe, you will be loved. One day, I promise.

[silverchris9]

Well, I was uncertain for a while, but now I can officially consider IEI males as the sexiest things ever, since I decided 15 minutes ago that I'm definitely an IEI male, and anyone like me must be the sexiest. jk.

(and just fyi, I was uncertain about the IEI part, not the male part. Been sure about that for a while now. )

[JuJu]

(and just fyi, I was uncertain about the IEI part, not the male part. Been sure about that for a while now. )

i talked w/ a really cool "male"about queer theory last week... you don't need to have a penis to be male and vice versa.

"don't need a gun to blow your mind... / oh no / oh no" - j lennon, Ni-EIE

[silverchris9]

Oh, I meant I've been sure, like, since birth; I'm a guy. Naturally, I suppose would be the right word. I was just making a joke.

However, queer theory, that sounds interesting. How exactly does this male with no penis thing work? Although, on the subject of theories of gender, can a baby really "know" his or her gender...? Interesting question. (not relevant to the thread, but interesting.)

EDIT: Hmmm... actually, "naturally" might be a bit insensitive. So, by "naturally" I mean "x and y chromosome, con el pene, all that jazz."

[Joy]

Are they ALL wanderer's/druggies or already under someone else's thumb? Seriously. I've got 5 male IEI friends, and none of them have their shit together. Does such a thing as an IEI who's on top of his life without a significant other even exist???

[silverchris9]

sigh.

Yes. I am very on top of my shit. Absurdly on top of my shit. It probably helps, however, that I have very good parents, and even though at times it was tough growing up, having an LSI father really helped in my transition towards adulthood vis a vis paying for my life, being a capable worker, having some useful skills, and that sort of stuff.

I'm a bit of a nightmare when it comes to girls though, if that's any help. I only like the ones that don't like me.

Nope. They're all airy-fairy wanderers and junkie poets who'll never amount to anything in life without the good graces of an ESTp kicking the shit out of them. Socionics fact.

[DividedsGhost]

FYI, if someone picks up bums and lets them live with them that doesn't mean the bums are automatically IEI.

hah-hah-hah.

[Joy]

Well the bum who lives/lived with me is most certainly not IEI.
And the one who may take his place is, but also rather young and immature... but not a bum.

sigh.

Yes. I am very on top of my shit. Absurdly on top of my shit. It probably helps, however, that I have very good parents, and even though at times it was tough growing up, having an LSI father really helped in my transition towards adulthood vis a vis paying for my life, being a capable worker, having some useful skills, and that sort of stuff.

I'm a bit of a nightmare when it comes to girls though, if that's any help. I only like the ones that don't like me.

Well I don't know you so I don't have a particularaffinity towards you. Wanna move in and nanny in exchange for room and board?

[silverchris9]

Sure! (No. I've got to go to college!)

[Sir Knight]

Define "shit together." I'd like to think I have some kind of togetherness in the matter of my shit, but I'm interested in what a dual has to say.

[Shagbag The Wizard]

I find the problem with IEIs is that they really can't define their *shit* to begin with.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Joy. Shut the fuck up you bitch and mind your own business.

People can live their lives however the way they see fit. You are nobody to judge who has "their shit together" or not.

*sigh*

Seriously. Take that up your ass and smoke it.

As for other IEIs: Please don't internalize the bullshit that this fisherman's wife is spouting off.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I find the problem with IEIs is that they really can't define their *shit* to begin with.

You need to mind your own business and worry about your own problems. There's nothing inherently wrong with somebody if they want to just be a homebody and have somebody else take care of them. Don't really see the problem. Being addicted to drugs can be a problem, but that's not type related, I never had an issue with drugs in my life. In the past, it was socially acceptable for a female to not work and just clean the house- why not the same for males? Why the double standard. And why are women of all people advocating anything different? Gender equality is that, an equality. Not everybody is meant to go out and work a 9 to 5 job.

If an IEI is being too emo and thinking that you can fix their own emotional problems, just encourage them to do things for themselves and what they want to do. If you really want to help, that's the way. They probably just need compliments, not criticisms. Encourage them to selfishly act on their own self-interest. Don't say 'oh just get a life' it will only backfire. I'm not sure how specifically this IEI doesn't have their 'shit together or not' it sounds more like a clash of lifestyle choices or something. How exactly is he hurting himself or others?

IEIS need a lot of meaning, we're not going to go to a job or do anything unless it's personally gratifying. I'm sorry but that's just how we are. We'd rather roll around in shit and be victimishly abused then put up with that. LOL. It's a battle you will not win.

[Shagbag The Wizard]

Lol, my comment wasn't meant as an attack, just an observation from my own experience with IEIs (which includes my ex).


I happen to think IEIs are great. Like everyone else, I celebrate them for who they are. They seem to have a strong sense of "purpose" in life, they just don't always seem to know what they should be doing to achieve that purpose. And when they do decide on a particular course of action, they seem to constantly second-guess themselves, wondering if they should've done the "other" thing.

Hence the need for duals.

[Sir Knight]

They seem to have a strong sense of "purpose" in life, they just don't always seem to know what they should be doing to achieve that purpose. And when they do decide on a particular course of action, they seem to constantly second-guess themselves, wondering if they should've done the "other" thing.

Nail? Hammerhead. Hammerhead? Nail.

[squark]

Dunno Joy, do you have your shit together? What does that even mean?

[Sir Knight]

Dunno Joy, do you have your shit together? What does that even mean?

I believe it is where you take your, ah, fecal matter and then roll it into a large ball in order to attract a mate, similar to a dung beetle.

So basically Joy's saying that she hasn't met any IEI men with a suitably impressive shit-ball.

[squark]

I believe it is where you take your, ah, fecal matter and then roll it into a large ball in order to attract a mate, similar to a dung beetle.

So basically Joy's saying that she hasn't met any IEI men with a suitably impressive shit-ball.

LOL!!

[jessica129]

In the past, it was socially acceptable for a female to not work and just clean the house- why not the same for males? Why the double standard. And why are women of all people advocating anything different? Gender equality is that, an equality. Not everybody is meant to go out and work a 9 to 5 job.

Do you know how hard it is to find a guy that wants to be a stay at home husband? lol. I tried. I'd love someone to be the homebody and take care of the house and the kids while I work. Is that so much to ask?

[silverchris9]

Do you know how hard it is to find a guy that wants to be a stay at home husband? lol. I tried. I'd love someone to be the homebody and take care of the house and the kids while I work. Is that so much to ask?

I was about to say, I'd have no problem with that, but that's a lie. I'd want to be involved in the working world in some capacity. I'd want to be in a board room. What I'd be comfortable with is being a part-time consultant, or even having an unpaid or poorly paid position where a friend or two called me in occasionally to do work, while being a poet or whatever. But then I'd be really uncomfortable with my "job" not being a priority. Hmm... life is confusing.

[thePirate]

Are they ALL wanderer's/druggies or already under someone else's thumb? Seriously. I've got 5 male IEI friends, and none of them have their shit together. Does such a thing as an IEI who's on top of his life without a significant other even exist???

you should make it a new year's resolution to stop being such an idiot

[silverchris9]

you should make it a new year's resolution to stop being such an idiot

I missed you pirate.

[Exodus]

I believe it is where you take your, ah, fecal matter and then roll it into a large ball in order to attract a mate, similar to a dung beetle.

So basically Joy's saying that she hasn't met any IEI men with a suitably impressive shit-ball.

[redbaron]

why the hate against joy, people?

And to answer the original question, my brother is IEI and he's always been a great kid/guy. no drugs. That's not type-related. The reason you know a lot of IEIs who do drugs is because they're all kinda in a crowd of people with similar inclinations or whatever.

I will say that my brother needs my sister-in-law (SLE) for direction & get-up-and-go. Doesn't mean he doesn't have it together, just that he does better with her. Because I'm without a dual, I'm also seriously lacking in that capacity. But it's easier to hide since I'm at home with the kids. yet it hasn't been particularly healthy.

[silverchris9]

why the hate against joy, people?

'Cause it feels like she's always complaining about something in her life, and it also sort of seems like she's blaming someone else. Plus, while it's obvious that she doesn't actually think that being an IEI makes it impossible for one to live a successful life, the belief that socionics limits one's options in life is pernicious, and so to bring it up so blatantly (and without the total assurance of self-awareness)... bring up bad memories, at best. Also, lingering resentment towards her from factionaries on the side of former members of this forum (gilly, discojoe) who seemed to have some sort of grudge against her, for reasons both explicable and inexplicable. And personally---granted that I don't know her irl---Joy seems to have a certain lack of self-awareness (hard to describe) that frustrates me tremendously. You kinda want to say, "Yes, Joy, there are normal IEIs. You just hang out with losers. Maybe stop doing that. Or stop complaining about it. Or notice that there's a reason you like hanging out with losers and complaining about how loser-ish they are." And then there's the pre-breakup retyping...

That was probably a jackass-ish thing to say, but it's my honest response to that question.

[redbaron]

'Cause it feels like she's always complaining about something in her life, and it also sort of seems like she's blaming someone else. Plus, while it's obvious that she doesn't actually think that being an IEI makes it impossible for one to live a successful life, the belief that socionics limits one's options in life is pernicious, and so to bring it up so blatantly (and without the total assurance of self-awareness)... bring up bad memories, at best. Also, lingering resentment towards her from factionaries on the side of former members of this forum (gilly, discojoe) who seemed to have some sort of grudge against her, for reasons both explicable and inexplicable. And personally---granted that I don't know her irl---Joy seems to have a certain lack of self-awareness (hard to describe) that frustrates me tremendously. You kinda want to say, "Yes, Joy, there are normal IEIs. You just hang out with losers. Maybe stop doing that. Or stop complaining about it. Or notice that there's a reason you like hanging out with losers and complaining about how loser-ish they are." And then there's the pre-breakup retyping...

That was probably a jackass-ish thing to say, but it's my honest response to that question.

this whole post reminds me of my brother. lol!

[Creepy-male]

Are they ALL wanderer's/druggies or already under someone else's thumb? Seriously. I've got 5 male IEI friends, and none of them have their shit together. Does such a thing as an IEI who's on top of his life without a significant other even exist???

Lol I love how time and time again people use socionics as a vehicle for justifying and explaining their everyday frustrations with people.

If you want to turn your scholarly pursuits towards that, then so be it, socionics doesn't come with instructions, but the spark for my enthusiasm in the subject didn't come from building a complex rationale behind why I dislike people. I have relatively simple explanations for those things, my enthusiasm came in understanding myself, other people, and how people relate.

People may disagree, but I don't think one type is better or worse, I don't have pride for my type and loathing for my conflictors type. Rather I have appreciation for how well socionics can recognize my strengths and weaknesses, so that I may profit from that knowledge, and how well socionics can help me understand another person's point of view, so that I may learn to deal with people different than myself.

[redbaron]

People may disagree, but I don't think one type is better or worse, I don't have pride for my type and loathing for my conflictors type. Rather I have appreciation for how well socionics can recognize my strengths and weaknesses, so that I may profit from that knowledge, and how well socionics can help me understand another person's point of view, so that I may learn to deal with people different than myself.

[golden]

People may disagree, but I don't think one type is better or worse, I don't have pride for my type and loathing for my conflictors type. Rather I have appreciation for how well socionics can recognize my strengths and weaknesses, so that I may profit from that knowledge, and how well socionics can help me understand another person's point of view, so that I may learn to deal with people different than myself.

I agree with you in theory. I've always tried to live this way, getting along with people. But lately I'm more in the mode of whatever, meaning that I'm experimenting with not getting along with people in certain situations.

Socionics is perfect for this. I can try out the very things that I think will bother certain people, just to see if it works. Usually does. I know, I'm evil. Sorry.

[redbaron]

I agree with you in theory. I've always tried to live this way, getting along with people. But lately I'm more in the mode of whatever, meaning that I'm experimenting with not getting along with people in certain situations.

Socionics is perfect for this. I can try out the very things that I think will bother certain people, just to see if it works. Usually does. I know, I'm evil. Sorry.

I've done this too, just to see what happens. lolol

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I apologize if I was rude, but she was rude first. Or if not rude, then at least she was misunderstanding. Then she'd go 'life is demanding there's no understanding!!!!' and other gay shit like that.

It seems like Joy gets in this pattern of attracting/being attracted to these IEIs and these younger, sensitive males and then gets fed up when they can't 'be the man' for her in an american society business-suit way and be all go to work be normal. But it's an IEI dude, what do you expect. That's the realm of society IEI doesn't want to do the most even when they know that if they just shut and do it people won't say anything to them anymore. Even the most well-adjusted, healthy IEIs as possible are going to be wary over that stuff. 'Okay I'm happy and not emo but I'm still not gotta get a job' lol lol lol and then make heart makes over the grass with our asses like Minerva Mink did when she saw trudy's cousin.

And I guess that frustrates her even further cause we understand things so well without actually doing much of anything. lol.

I guess I get tired of people pointing out my 'main weaknesses' and stuff I already know about myself. I'd only change with somebody if they worked *with me* and pointed out stuff I was doing to subconsciously sabotage myself. (that's why esfjs feel so hopeless with me, they can't mentally argue with me) It's something that will always be there no matter how strong I get and no matter how much I'd try to change for somebody else... Joy was probably just blowing off some steam, and I took it a bit too sensitively. I have to remember that Joy is going to be like that.

In other words: just shut the fuck up and do the 'job shit' for the IEI yourself, and if you are expecting him to 'get his shit together in that job-ish external 'get over yourself' kinda way' understand that it's an IEI you're dealing with and any progress on that area is going to be clumsy and slow.

[Creepy-male]

I can try out the very things that I think will bother certain people, just to see if it works. Usually does. I know, I'm evil. Sorry.

I never understood that, why not just do what you want and leave pestering other people out of the equation unless they get in your way.... at least then theres a rationale for it, like oh... they are messing with me because of X. The other way its just mindfucking.

I don't bother people to get my jollies off but what I will do is test people, like if someone is like, "don't touch that", maybe I'll pretend like I'm about to just to see how they react to know how serious they are about it and so forth.

[golden]

I never understood that, why not just do what you want and leave pestering other people out of the equation unless they get in your way.... at least then theres a rationale for it, like oh... they are messing with me because of X. The other way its just mindfucking.

I don't bother people to get my jollies off but what I will do is test people, like if someone is like, "don't touch that", maybe I'll pretend like I'm about to just to see how they react to know how serious they are about it and so forth.

Mmm, it's really just because I've spent most of my life being so cautious and hemmed in, and then the last 12 years married to someone who was so different from me that I felt like I was walking on eggshells all of the time.

So in trying to learn how to just express myself at a basic level, I have to experiment right now. I feel I have to be willing to not play Little Ms. Perfect and Nice 100 percent of the time. I'm not trying to pester anyone. Rather, I'm trying to figure out the range of who I can be in relation to other people.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I never understood that, why not just do what you want and leave pestering other people out of the equation unless they get in your way.... at least then theres a rationale for it, like oh... they are messing with me because of X. The other way its just mindfucking.

I don't bother people to get my jollies off but what I will do is test people, like if someone is like, "don't touch that", maybe I'll pretend like I'm about to just to see how they react to know how serious they are about it and so forth.

This is a problem? Reaction-testing is fun. Not so much when one is the recipient, though.

[Creepy-male]

This is a problem? Reaction-testing is fun. Not so much when one is the recipient, though.

Yea I dunno, when its playful reaction testing then sure its a little annoying but endearing, but when its all creepy like the movie saw and your toying with people in a sociopathic way then its a bit excessive.

[Creepy-male]

Mmm, it's really just because I've spent most of my life being so cautious and hemmed in, and then the last 12 years married to someone who was so different from me that I felt like I was walking on eggshells all of the time.

So in trying to learn how to just express myself at a basic level, I have to experiment right now. I feel I have to be willing to not play Little Ms. Perfect and Nice 100 percent of the time. I'm not trying to pester anyone. Rather, I'm trying to figure out the range of who I can be in relation to other people.

Yea I kind of caught the general idea of what you mean, but I was thinking in a much darker and less fun scenario.

At any rate, I know what you mean about little ms. perfect, I don't exactly like feeling like a choir boy, I like to be "good" and all but to a certain extent it can annoy me, although I've come up with tons of moral explanations for that kind of thing.

Like its not really being good I dislike, but rather the means, like when it feels whimpy and phony.

Isn't there that quote like "I'd rather have an honest war than an unhonest truce?"

[Joy]

This is exactly what I was looking for and needed to hear. There's an IEI that I'm considering getting involved with, but I have reservations because he's not at a place in his life where he could offer me the kinds of things that society thinks men should, the stuff most women look for. When we spend a lot of time together he starts to believe he can do it and works towards it. I'm conflicted because on one hand, I've never been one to care much about society's expectations. On the other... look where it's gotten me. While I like the idea of supporting a starving artist so he can do his art thing, whatever that happens to be, and would be okay with it as long as he was contributing in other ways, I'm not sure how practical or wise that really is. And this whole thing... I don't know if I'm just using Socionics to justify codependent patterns or if there's truly nothing unhealthy about being the reason a guy is willing and able to work towards his goals, not to mention the whole "house wife" thing. This magical connection he and I have... the way neither of us seems to be centered or energized or happy if we're not seeing eachother enough... is it healthy?Should we both be happy and centered on our own, or is it okay for us to only really be that way when we're together? How much do/should duals really need each other? And am I just fooling myself in thinking that there wouldn't be long term isrelated to each of our problems that seem to start to go away when we spend a lot of time around each other? Maybe I need to work on being centered on my own and wait to get involved with anyone until I find someone who is already a contributing member of society who is happy and healthy on his own. Ugh, but I do have an issue with that whole "society's expectations" thing. Yes, I have poor self-awareness. Yes, I'm wondering if I just need better friends, a healthy social network. Anyways, there's no need for an immediate answer, so I guess I'll just see how things play out, be his friend, and work on getting on top of my OWN shit in the meantime. (:

'Cause it feels like she's always complaining about something in her life, and it also sort of seems like she's blaming someone else. Plus, while it's obvious that she doesn't actually think that being an IEI makes it impossible for one to live a successful life, the belief that socionics limits one's options in life is pernicious, and so to bring it up so blatantly (and without the total assurance of self-awareness)... bring up bad memories, at best. Also, lingering resentment towards her from factionaries on the side of former members of this forum (gilly, discojoe) who seemed to have some sort of grudge against her, for reasons both explicable and inexplicable. And personally---granted that I don't know her irl---Joy seems to have a certain lack of self-awareness (hard to describe) that frustrates me tremendously. You kinda want to say, "Yes, Joy, there are normal IEIs. You just hang out with losers. Maybe stop doing that. Or stop complaining about it. Or notice that there's a reason you like hanging out with losers and complaining about how loser-ish they are." And then there's the pre-breakup retyping...

That was probably a jackass-ish thing to say, but it's my honest response to that question.

[Joy]

BulletsAndDoves... I don't find society's norm attractive. But there's shit in my life that I need to straighten out, and I'm trying to sort out how the fact that I don't really care about a guy's finances/job ties in. And from a practical standpoint, I can't afford a guy who's not self-sustaining right now. But on the other hand, I'm a much more productive and successful person when I'm spending a lot of time around an IEI. So maybe if I was with an IEI... Bleh. Like I said, lots of internal conflict here.