Socionics Beta types Examples

[Samson]

The Rock's persona was calm, cool and collected. Randy's was chaotic power.
Theatrics is Merry quadra. Its Fe.

When theatrics dominate, it isn't very likely that Fe will only be 2D in the person's stack. 4D Fe is the obvious element here. Very little points towards Se realist.

I can't even comment here. Speechless really. What it tells me is you don't really understand Ni base enough to understand how a Ni+Fe type could be put together and composed. Maybe you think IEI is like a train wreck, or space cadet? I don't understand how this would not include any sort of soft, poet type, like this woman is?

She softens his blow. She smiles at his bizarre and cringy jokes. She blinks Doe-eyed at his power antics. She bows her head demurly and smiles shyly. It what world would a LII be impressed by this sort of guy? Some kind of Se demonstrative stuff? This is how Fe creative gets to mobilize their dual. I'm thinking you think ESTp means high IQ power man. When they are low IQ its like this guy.

I think you might be confusing ESFp as ESFj. I also have a gut intuition that you think that Randy is ESFj because of his outfits. Powerwrestler from the 80s is the current trendy aesthetic of 2014-2020. So you will see ESFj looking like Randy Savage in any gym around. 80s is "in" right now.

Ofc I could be wrong with everything. She is a ISTj and he a ESFj. I don't think so though.

I don't consider IQ to be type related, nor style trends. I compared Randy Savage to the Rock because of their emphasis and reliance on theatrics. Neither of them emphasized Se much ("chaotic power" or shows of strength are not what Se is about), but both display tons of Fe power in their tireless work to generate enthusiasm and passion in their audience. Se is not so concerned with the show, even with Fe HA. SLE might be very considerate (even conscientious) of how they are received, but is not likely to bank their success on show and drama to such an excessive extent. You mention SEE when the conversation is about SLE vs ESE - I have a hard time following you with that.

I mentioned not being very invested in her typing, and by all means I could be wrong about my initial guess. The idea of her being IEI is what would need substantiating, and I see no rational for that typing. Your argument here is Fe Creative, so why not simply type her at SEI? I think it is doubtful that she is any kind of Pi lead, but that seems a better typing for her than any Ni lead type.

And surely LII will be impressed by Fe theatrics. I fail to see the controversy in my typings, honestly.

[timber]

When theatrics dominate, it isn't very likely that Fe will only be 2D in the person's stack. 4D Fe is the obvious element here. Very little points towards Se realist.

They are power wresters from the 80s 90s, it goes with the territory. If you want Fe and Si look to Japanese game shows. Fe goes different places in beta -> gamma. As to Se realist? I'm getting an impression you think Se is more like Te to be honest. He is a guy trying to climb the ladder using the popular culture of power wrestling to his advantage. If you want to see a LSE doing powerwrestling look at Hulk Hogan, or LSE John Cena.

I don't consider IQ to be type related, nor style trends.

Its not type related and I never said that. I said IF a SLE is low IQ then they may come off as dumb. Like Randy's character. He would be ESFp over ESFj by a mile.

I compared Randy Savage to the Rock because of their emphasis and reliance on theatrics.

Again it goes with the territory. Plus the Rock doesn't have any of the same qualities as Randy. The Rock is somewhat intellectual, a cool, smooth operator.

Neither of them emphasized Se much ("chaotic power" or shows of strength are not what Se is about),

More Se then any other IE. Plus, chaotic power might be exactly what the situation calls for. Shows of strength is mostly what Se looks like. I mean that's like saying smiles, or frowns are not Fe. Or the systems of mathematic relations are not Ti. Its a non-sensical, non-starter. Like why even do socionics at this point of reduced vocabulary.

but both display tons of Fe power in their tireless work to generate enthusiasm and passion in their audience.

You must have never seen SLE as a attention seeking person, centre of the group antics, I invite you to watch for it now. Fe mobilizing, well ask a EII because they would tell you its insufferable. Anything for a laugh, or even just some kind of reaction. Be impressed by me goddamit, I'm I not funny!

Se is not so concerned with the show, even with Fe HA. SLE might be very considerate (even conscientious) of how they are received, but is not likely to bank their success on show and drama to such an excessive extent. You mention SEE when the conversation is about SLE vs ESE - I have a hard time following you with that.

Okay yeah, if they are being a polite person in a polite society. But not in WWE? Like how is this point escaping you? I actually see Randy as holding back and being very conscientious in those interviews, kind even. Juxstapose to Hulk Hogan, or John Cena. They are totally different personas.

I mentioned not being very invested in her typing, and by all means I could be wrong about my initial guess. The idea of her being IEI is what would need substantiating, and I see no rational for that typing. Your argument here is Fe Creative, so why not simply type her at SEI? I think it is doubtful that she is any kind of Pi lead, but that seems a better typing for her than any Ni lead type.

They are all two-dimensional characters. She just acts like a IEI in the complete package of that dyad. I think you need to see it more I guess.

"Wow, ultra strong tough man is going to beat up people, baby don't get hurt! but act like a total gentlemen to me when I smile. Good thing he can't tell how fake my reactions are, one step from fear. Hopefully he keeps a lid on his impulses so nobody can tell how crazy he is." lol.

And surely LII will be impressed by Fe theatrics. I fail to see the controversy in my typings, honestly.

Fe from a ESFj is totally different. Flattering guardians.

Don't know if you want to think this is ESE-LII dyad, then just...

[Samson]

They are power wresters from the 80s 90s, it goes with the territory. If you want Fe and Si look to Japanese game shows. Fe goes different places in beta -> gamma. As to Se realist? I'm getting an impression you think Se is more like Te to be honest. He is a guy trying to climb the ladder using the popular culture of power wrestling to his advantage. If you want to see a LSE doing powerwrestling look at Hulk Hogan, or LSE John Cena.

Jung himself called the Se type a realist. I know Socionics differs from Jung, but not to the extent of completely redefining the elements. Regardless, I am not talking about Te types, and the mention of a single word isn't what defines my view of a type.

I will let you know that I also disagree with the typings of your LSE examples.

Its not type related and I never said that. I said IF a SLE is low IQ then they may come off as dumb. Like Randy's character. He would be ESFp over ESFj by a mile.

No, he wouldn't. Randy is very clearly not Fi valuing.

Again it goes with the territory. Plus the Rock doesn't have any of the same qualities as Randy. The Rock is somewhat intellectual, a cool, smooth operator.

You think that SLE, a type with 3D valued Ti and 4D Te, is less likely to come off intellectual and smooth than ESE. Interesting.

More Se then any other IE. Plus, chaotic power might be exactly what the situation calls for. Shows of strength is mostly what Se looks like. I mean that's like saying smiles, or frowns are not Fe. Or the systems of mathematic relations are not Ti. Its a non-sensical, non-starter. Like why even do socionics at this point of reduced vocabulary.

Show of strength is not Se. Theatrical displays of dominance are part of the Fe sphere of influence. With Se, the sense of (will)power is implicit - taken for granted. When the emphasis is on the show, it is Fe.

You must have never seen SLE as a attention seeking person, centre of the group antics, I invite you to watch for it now. Fe mobilizing, well ask a EII because they would tell you its insufferable. Anything for a laugh, or even just some kind of reaction. Be impressed by me goddamit, I'm I not funny!

I have seen that sort of SLE. Randy is not alike.

Okay yeah, if they are being a polite person in a polite society. But not in WWE? Like how is this point escaping you? I actually see Randy as holding back and being very conscientious in those interviews, kind even. Juxstapose to Hulk Hogan, or John Cena. They are totally different personas.

I can assure you that this point hasn't escaped my consideration. Though I think you are over-valuing their differences.

They are all two-dimensional characters. She just acts like a IEI in the complete package of that dyad. I think you need to see it more I guess.

"Wow, ultra strong tough man is going to beat up our enemies, but act like a total gentlemen to me when I smile. Good thing he can't tell how fake my reactions are, one step from fear. Hopefully he keeps a lid on his impulses so nobody can tell how crazy he is." lol.

Do you have an argument for Ni lead for her?

Fe from a ESFj is totally different. Flattering guardians.

Don't know if you want to think this is ESE-LII dyad, then just...

Fe within ESE is dramatical and emotional performance (directing conversations and leaving an impact) backed by strong qualities of, and presence in, the material world. They very often display a strong mastery over their own body, but only as a secondary to the realm of people, where the ESE really 'lives'. Displays of power and of strength are seen in the male ESE especially, for it generates much arousal in others. Ne drives the ESE to express with wildly changing emotions and effects meant for shock and awe, differing here from EIE who tends towards a more singularly driven display. Ne puts the "chaotic" in ESE. The ESE puts an emphasis on the display of performance in athletics : indeed, the world of WWE is Fe-heaven. What use is strength if you can't inspire awe?

SLE, by contrast, is a more sober realist who is much less invested in the climate of people. Their passion shows in lust for the moment, for acquisition and immersion. Careful and methodical strategy is used in service to the mastery of the moment, implying a high tactical opportunism. Fe within SLE is mainly used as a way to establish a good circle of people around them, with good cheer and atmosphere that allows the SLE to drive forward in the world without needing to worry much about relationships. The building of strength tends to come as a natural consequence from physical immersion in activities. The SLE puts an emphasis on mastery of the self and of the world in athletics: it's the difference between functional strength and bodybuilding, metaphorically speaking.

Based on these very brief ideas of both types, I conclude that Randy Savage fits ESE extremely well.