Socionics Beta types Examples

[Sol]

Robert Downey Jr - INFP
Sophie Marceau - ISTP
Alan Rickman - INTP
Gary Oldman - INFP

[Kill4Me]

Viktor Bout "Merchant of Death"...SLE-Ti 8w7-7w8-3w4 so/sp







"A former Soviet military translator,[6] Bout had reportedly made a significant amount of money through his multiple air transport companies,[7] which shipped cargo mostly in Africa and the Middle East during the 1990s and early 2000s.[8] As willing to work for Charles Taylor in Liberia as he was for the United Nations in Sudan and the United States in Iraq,[7][9] Bout may have facilitated huge arms shipments into various civil wars in Africa with his private air cargo fleets during the 1990s.[10]"

"former British Foreign Office minister Peter Hain called Bout a "sanctions buster"[7] and described him as "the principal conduit for planes and supply routes that take arms from east Europe, principally Bulgaria, Moldova and Ukraine, to Liberia and Angola""

"Bout has lived in various countries, including Belgium,[54] Lebanon,[52] Rwanda,[25] Russia,[54] South Africa,[55] Syria,[37] and the United Arab Emirates."

"Bout's strategy of constantly moving location, owning numerous companies, and frequently re-registering aircraft[7][41] made it hard for authorities to make a case against him."

so/sp has a wider lens and global thrust….as a result its business exoskeleton takes on a more fragmented quality....rather than it being constructed through/into a singular unit…the growth spreads out more than it rises up….its more diffusive. They can end up at war with the state because of the way the business grows without regard for official lines of demarcation between one country and another, almost acts like a sovereign state in its own right, a law in itself, moving through tunnels, over land, operating independently of treaties, making more criss-crosses and zig-zags, that sp/so is too blind to see due to their having a ‘wall’ constructed between themselves and what’s over yonder. so/sp 8w7 is more outlawish, renegade, in that sense, than sp/so 8w7….the nucleus of their business has an elusive quality, not quite something you can point at definitively…the lines of communication aren’t straight so much as diagonal. they can seem to have an almost eerie socio-relational intelligence, that can’t be arrived at through business calculations so much as an innate "super antennae". drugs facilitate global reach. they are borderless, like weapons, alcohol....

SLE 8w7-7w8-3w4 vs SLE 8w7-5w6-3w4/4w3: 5w6 fixed 8w7 conquerors (like mussolini, napoleon, alexander the great) will impose their 'own' philosophical/legal/political doctrines onto a conquered territory….ex: napoleonic code. 873s (like chapo guzman, viktor bout, dawood ibrahim) won’t. They don't have that ’treatise’ in their back pocket ready to whip out after victory.

[Sol]

George Bush-jr. "Unlawful retard of death, devastation and hunger in the Middle East" - ENFJ

[Kill4Me]

"Maradona then headbutted Sola, elbowed another Bilbao player in the face, and kneed another player in the head, knocking him out cold."

Diego Maradona....SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-3w2 so/sp

Maradona comes in through Viktor Bout











"Maradona got into frequent disputes with Barcelona FC executives, especially club president Josep Lluís Núñez, ""

"One Barcelona executive stated: "When I saw those scenes of Maradona fighting and the chaos that followed I realized we couldn't go any further with him."

"Maradona once fired a compressed-air rifle at reporters who he claimed were invading his privacy."

"Maradona used abusive language at the live post-game press conference, telling members of the media to "suck it and keep on sucking it"."

"There he protested George W. Bush's presence in Argentina, wearing a T-shirt labeled "STOP BUSH" (with the "s" in "Bush" being replaced with a swastika) and referring to Bush as "human garbage"."

"Maradona was famous for his cunning personality.[86]"

"A number of publications have referred to Maradona as the Artful Dodger, the urchin pickpocket expert from Charles Dickens' Oliver Twist."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona

[Kill4Me]

Luis Felipe....SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-3w4 so/sp

enneagram: eyes
stacking: irises
socionics: cognition (and broader

Felipe comes in through elliphant as 8w7.





Felipe comes in through Angela Simpson as so/sp:





let's take a look:

"The leader of one of New York City's most notorious gangs, the Latin Kings, was convicted yesterday by a Federal jury on charges of orchestrating the murders and attempted murders of rivals from his prison cell in upstate New York."

that's the so/sp achilles heel

Another assistant United States attorney, Steven Cohen, sarcastically conceded that there was poetry in Mr. Felipe's letters. Mr. Cohen told the jury: ''One of the poems is 'Five alive, six must die.' Another is 'People popping, disciples dropping.' ''"

that sounds like Ni-seeking

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/20/ny...-slayings.html

He's an 8w7, so his only possible sociotypes are SLE, LSE, LIE, and ILE. SLE-Ti is the best fit.

[Kill4Me]

Grigori Rasputin...SLE-Se 8w7-5w4-4w5 sx/so

Rasputin comes in through GG Allin for 8w7 (gotta look close):





Rasputin then comes in through Courtney Love for sx/so:





let's take a look:

According to Fuhrmann a symbiotic relationship developed between the Tsarina and Rasputin, in which "each fed from the other".[172] According to Pierre Gilliard "her desires were interpreted by Rasputin, they seemed in her eyes to have the sanction and authority of a revelation."[173]

[wikipedia]

In 1905, friends introduced her and her husband to Rasputin. Neither priest nor monk, the uneducated peasant had already earned a repuation as a starets or spiritual teacher. He was also known as a healer and prophet. Did he provide relief to the young Tsarevich? His worst critics admit he did. He also helped the Tsarina deal with her unbearable guilt and suffering--but that help came at a price.

http://seducedbyhistory.blogspot.com...autocracy.html

it's pretty clear that rasputin was on a similar 'track' as courtney love like two college students that sign up for the same classes. sx/so 8w7s tend to be star chasers or if stars in their own right gaining access to presidents and mob figures. the tsars are parallel to stars....and rasputin didn't gain access to them because he was shy. for rasputin, it was the tsarina whose mind he gained control over by keying in on her vulnerability (her sick son) and then making himself indispensable to assuaging her panic when the boy was sick....that's a psychologically aggressive tactic. indispensability comes through the 8s connection with type 2....in a nutshell, his strategy was to seduce...power through seduction is a designated marker for sx 8. For courtney love, it was kurt cobain that stirred up her lust, but also gave her access into the upper echelon of the rock n roll world. like the tsarina, cobain was a sorta shy, withdrawn person who nevertheless wielded an enormous amount of clout in the rock world. rasputin raised himself from a lowly peasant to russia's most haunting powerbroker through his domination of the tsarina. the same can be said of love's rise from a juvenile delinquent to a mover and shaker in the rock n roll world through her domination of cobain. Rasputin wasn't a musician. He was a 'faith healer", but that's a trivial difference. back in those days a faith healer was a rock star. naranjo mentions that 'conning and cynicism' is a core trait of type 8, and sle usually make good used car salesmen, so the fact that rasputin was actually able to convince bright people of his powers, not only points to their stupidity, but his gift for the con.

While fascinated by Rasputin in the beginning, the ruling class of St Petersburg began to turn against him as he had privileges no one else had, an easy access to the Imperial Family.

Kokovtsov offered Rasputin 200,000 rubles, equaling $100,000, when he would leave the capital. Rasputin had become one of the most hated people in Russia.

In November 1916, Vladimir Purishkevich, a conservative member of the Duma, Russia’s parliament, gave a speech in in which he spoke of spoke of the “filthy, depraved, corrupt peasant” the Tsarina all but worshipped. Rasputin was seen to be at the center of the ‘Dark Forces’ destroying the country.

In less than a month, Purishkevich joined with Prince Felix Yusopov, the Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, and a few other conspirators. Together, they would plot the infamous and successful assassination of the starets.

Rasputin was viewed as a serious threat. He was felt to be an evil presence. He was systematically demonized hardly had he shown up. love has inspired a similar reaction. this makes for a key difference from type 9. while 9s can be demonized, it takes a longer time for others to see them as evil....whereas a sx8 can provoke that response in a much quicker time. the capacity to fascinate and capture the imagination is mentioned by naranjo as being a core marker for sx8. rasputin, like love, has certainly had this effect, for better or worse. however, because this type fascinates and seduces doesn't mean the type is a sweet-natured, goodie two shoed tutti frutti with a cherry on top self-proclaimed good person. not at all. seduction and fascination has to be viewed in light of the core traits of type 8. Naranjo lists and divides them as "lust, punitiveness, rebelliousness, dominance, insensitivity, conning and cynicism, exhibitionism, autonomy, and sensory-motor dominance", that's even before you get to sx, soc, and sp. so the sx8 is going to be a type that provokes a fascination, but nevertheless remains punitive, insensitive, cunning, rebellious, lusty, etc. i don't know of any better examples that infuse those elements than rasputin, gg allin, and love.

Rasputin's gifts were offset by his drinking and womanizing. Scandal was his constant companion. As his power grew, so did his faults, his behavior becoming increasingly outrageous. Nicholas ignored it—Alexandra denied it—but the scandal was always there. And the stink of it threatened the autocracy. Many believed there was more to the relationship between Alexandra and Rasputin than the sharing of spiritual comfort.

There's not only exhibitionism, but the sx8's antisocial tendency. and of course, to distinguish between sx/so 8w7 and 3w4 you would have to look at whether rasputin was in the reactive triad or not. with 3w4s pretty much everything they say has a competent feel about it.

this below part would indicate that Rasputin was a reactive triader:

In 1915, Rasputin tried to seduce a woman at the famous Yar restaurant in Moscow. When the lady refused his efforts a drunken, outraged Rasputin went berserk. He smashed the furniture and mirrors in the private dining room, shouting all the while about his relationship with the ‘old woman,’ the Tsarina, and bragging how he did “with her what I want!” He exposed himself and was finally dragged away by police, fighting and hollering the Tsar would protect him and threatening to get even. The event was witnessed--and publicized--by a journalist who was present.

courtney love went on a similar tirade against the etsy designer Dawn Simorangkir after the designer requested love pay her for some clothing. rasputin would be getting sued for libel and defamation on twitter, but in spite of the different eras love and rasputin are cut from the same cloth in their 'tearing down' people that don't do what they want. Rasputin is also not a young teenager when he flips out in 1915....8s, like all types, don't outgrow their fixation. In fact, the fixation becomes more fixated. Ted Nugent is an older 8w7. He's loaded. He's had fame, etc yet never misses a moment to verbally denigrate somebody. he's a master at infusing his rants with chains of insults. watch an interview of nugent in his younger years and you won't find him nearly as denigrating. you have the more recent example of an older 8w7 like Donald Trump. He recently denigrated John Mccain's war hero status and has managed to grab one head line after another through little more than his use of insults and accusations. Courtney Love has more twitter suits against her than Trump and she's sx/so. In comparison to Trump, Love's rants are crueler. Trump is more insulting and denigrating now than a younger trump in older interviews. The bottom line is that age doesn't diminish a type 8's fixation, nor any types. Each type's traits will remain a stable part of their personalities until they die, regardless of what they are doing in their life, and at any point. That's why when you have somebody self-typing as an 8w7 and they try to rectify their nice guyness and sensitivity towards the feelings of others with the reality of type 8 by saying they've 'seen the light' or have 'grown up' enough to gain a more mature perspective on their 'type 8 anger', know that person isn't an 8w7.

sx/so vs. sx/sp: a big difference between sx/so and sx/sp is in the people they typically experience chemistry for. social standing is a factor in who the sx/so experiences a sense of chemistry with, and not a factor in who the sx/sp experiences chemistry with. rasputin experienced strong chemistry with the tsarina. she had immense social standing. same for courtney love. she experienced her strongest chemistry with cobain. he had immense social standing, and just to drive home the difference, as sx/sp, cobain was not only oblivious to his fame but he also experienced a strong chemistry for courtney love, who was pretty low on the social totem pole. rasputin was also a noted shapeshifter. he was such a natural shapeshifter that the tsar and tsarina had trouble believing the stories about his debauchery and outrageous conduct. shapeshifting is the best marker for distinguishing between sx/so and sx/sp.

Brian Moynahan describes him as "a complex figure, intelligent, ambitious, idle, generous to a fault, spiritual, and – utterly – amoral." He was an unusual mix, a muzhik, prophet and [at the end of his life] a party-goer.

"To the nobles and Nicholas’s family members, Rasputin was a dual character who could go straight from praying for the royal family to the brothel [bathhouse] down the street."

since he's an 8w7, that narrows down the possibilities for his socionics type to SLE, LIE, LSE and ILE. SLE-Se is the best fit.

he's also an 854 prototype.

SLE-Ti 8w7-5w4-4w3: Larry Flynt
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w4-4w5: Anton Lavey
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-3w4: Whitey Bulger, Luis Felipe
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-2w1: Nicky Barnes, Lucky Luciano
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-4w3: Napoleon, Vlad Tepes, Mussolini
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-4w3: Pancho Villa, Outlaw Jesse James
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-3w4: Tony Spilotro, Donald Trump, Griselda Blanco
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-2w1: Nancy Grace
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-2w3: Larissa Hodge
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-4w5: Morton Downey Jr
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w7-3w2: Idi Amin, Al Capone
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w7-4w3: Randy Savage
SLE-Ti 8w7-7w8-3w4: Viktor Bout, Chapo Guzman, Dawood Ibrahim, Aristotle Onassis

SLE-Se 8w7-5w4-4w3: GG Allin
SLE-Se 8w7-5w4-4w5: Grigori Rasputin
SLE-Se 8w7-5w6-4w3: Keny Arkana
SLE-Se 8w7-6w5-2w1: Ultimate Warrior
SLE-Se 8w7-6w5-2w3: Aileen Wuornos
SLE-Se 8w7-6w5-3w4: Temica Roshawn
SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-3w2: John Gotti, Joey Merlino, "Broken Tooth" Koi
SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-3w4: Althea Flynt, Jesse James Hollywood, Angela Simpson
SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-2w3: Diego Maradona
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-2w3: Elliphant
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-3w4: Courtney Love
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-4w3: Brody Dalle
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-3w2: Huey Long
SLE-Se 8w7-7w8-3w2: Pablo Escobar, Manuel Noriega
SLE-Se 8w7-7w8-3w4: Pink, Bugsy Siegel, John Dillinger

[Sol]

If for Rasputin typing was used British propaganda and idiotic movies - it's stupid. By photo I'd suppose Fi type, - ISFJ mostly.


Theodore Roosevelt - ISTJ

[Kill4Me]

Matteo Denaro....SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-3w4 so/sp

Denaro comes into 8w7 through Rasputin:





Denaro comes into so/sp through Mussolini (simply match the irises):





Let's take a look:

"Messina Denaro is often portrayed as a ruthless playboy mafioso and womaniser, driving an expensive Porsche sports car and wearing a Rolex Daytona watch, Ray Ban sunglasses and fancy clothes from Giorgio Armani and Versace."

"He is an ardent player of computer games"

"Matteo has a reputation for fast living and allegedly killed a Sicilian hotel owner who accused him of taking young girls to bed."

"apparently reorganised the 20 Mafia families in Trapani into one single mandamento..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Messina_Denaro

"his cunning and the Robin Hood status many Sicilians have conferred on him."

the robin hood status would point to a 3w4 fix. both whitey bulger (8w7-5w6-3w4 so/sp) and chapo guzman (8w7-7w8-3w4 so/sp) cultivated a robin hood myth around themselves.

"It is the letter he wrote to a fellow godfather where he talks about the police and claims, 'These demented Torquemadas will never stop me.' The point is, the man believes he is in the right. He believes he is not a criminal."

sounds like the 8w7 sense of invincibility. he also regards himself as his own law...it's typical for sle so/sp 8w7 to frame the world/schools/police as having something wrong with them for wanting to get in the 8w7's way. something I wrote awhile back:

"I kicked this kid in the stomach. They told me it was wrong to do that and I got sent home for the day. It isn't wrong to me...the world was fucked. Still is."

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...89#post1042489

8w7s aren't burdened by a sense of guilt, so they would never ever conclude that they were in the wrong for committing an action, say one the govt deems criminal (unless they were conning). joey merlino had told a reporter that the prosecutor was Mental, when asked about him.

"Seeing himself as philosopher, folk hero and serial seducer, Messina Denaro, 51, has apparently kept up his luxurious lifestyle and entertained a string of lovers after going on the run two decades ago."

note how close he is to JFK (so/sp 7w8)....once you get into the assertive triad (873), serial seduction is quite common (obviously). 3s otoh approach it from more of a 'game' perspective and 7w8s are sometimes the ones that lay down the rules of the game. Mystery's mystery method would make a good 7w8 description. 8w7s are the naturals....of all the enneagram passions lust is the one that makes getting laid pretty easy.

"Today, the man who famously claimed "I filled a cemetery all by myself". and took his nickname, Diabolik, from an uncatchable Italian comic book criminal, is wanted for more than 50 murders and has made top 10 lists of the world's most-wanted criminals."

he's got the 8w7 arrogance, that's for sure. arrogance is a good way to distinguish between 8w7 and 7w8.

Messina Denaro was also part of the gang that in 1993 snatched Giuseppe di Matteo, the 11-year-old son of a turncoat. They held the boy prisoner for more than two years to persuade his father not to give evidence, and eventually strangled him.

Though brutal, his use of aggression is mainly strategic. i'm not seeing any 6 fix reactivity.

"He is like Bin Laden," he said. "He has no direct contact with his group. Hi-tech equipment is of limited use: he won't use a cell phone or computer more than once, satellites cannot see a pizzino and a drone wouldn't be able to follow someone down narrow alleys. Bugging is hard when suspects talk on the beach, in olive groves or in cemeteries, but never indoors."

reread what i wrote a few posts ago about so/sp business style.

Messina Denaro declared that Catholicism left him cold. "I don't challenge death," he wrote, "I simply kick it in the head, because I have no fear of it."

here's some sle-ti 8w7 cognition....compare to what I wrote awhile back on regrets.

"I had a regret years ago. But I ripped it out of my memory like an old weed and it ain't been back since."

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...31#post1038231

"It's not down to courage, it's because I have no love for life, and after life there is nothing."

the main defense mechanism of type 8 is denial. denial means denial of vulnerability/humanness...as a result that extends into a denial of 'love for life'. hence, the inner view of the 8w7 is more animalistic. SLE accounts more for animalistic behavior. Mike Tyson is SLE 6w7. he can behave animalistically but he has a very human view of himself. GG Allin was SLE 8w7. He behaved animalistically but also had a very non-human view of himself. 8w7s are the most out of touch with the human experience...giving them a more caricature like quality. that doesn't mean that, on some deeper, unconscious level, they don't experience it, but that the experience is filtered out through denial before the 8 is even conscious of it, and so it doesn't factor into their choices, actions, content of speech, nor kinesthetic. an 8w7, for example, would never experience feeling scared when they are in a rut, nor would an 8w9...if they do they're another type, usually a 6.

"What counts with Messina Denaro is his iron will and his huge ego," one investigator said. "Ultimately he doesn't care about his family, he doesn't even care about the mafia – all that matters to him is not being caught. For us to catch him, it's going to take a mistake on his part, or betrayal by one of his backers."

not giving a fuck like that is another instance of the 8 denial.

"To prove nothing would stop his romantic conquests, he murdered a hotel manager who had protested about his affair with an Austrian receptionist. But Messina Denaro also showed he was no soft touch with women. After he murdered a rival boss, he strangled the man's pregnant girlfriend."

Each 8w7 stack has its area of excess. With so/sp it tends to be "killing." how sublimated that killing is will vary with the level of health and type of business the person is in. "Killing the competition"....as denaro says he fills cemeteries. So didn't h1tler (so/sp) and Stalin (so/sp) fill cemeteries. so/sp is also no stranger to terrorism against the state. Bin Laden was also so/sp. But with 8w7 so/sp, they arrive at terrorism more through their own greed, materialism and self-interest. Take Pablo Escobar. Escobar bombed the judicial complex in his country when they threatened to extradite him to the United States and he also blew up a commercial jetliner, full of people. Toto Riina (so/sp 8w7) blew up cars with the country's prosecutors in them after the govt. started cracking down on the mafia. With 8w9 so/sp, killing furthers a political goal...with 1w9 so/sp, killing furthers an ideological goal....the achilles heel is similar across the board for so/sp, but the enneagram type/wing tweaks the way in which they end up there.

8w7-5w6-3w4 is the most cold and ruthless 8 of 'em all. this particular incident has a strong parallel to Whitey Bulger. Bulger decided to murder the girlfriend of his associate after she and the associate broke up. The associate had told her things about their criminal activities but the associate wasn't heartless enough to do the deed himself. Bulger did it without hesitation, not even bothering to farm the work out. Bulger's choice of killing her: strangulation.

In 1993, Messina Denaro was the brains behind the bombing of the Uffizi gallery in Florence, destroying paintings by Rubens and Giotto. According to Brusca, Messina Denaro was given the job of picking the paintings to target because of his knowledge of art.

Ti subtype augments his ability to plan, organize, coordinate. But the 7 wing also adds the capacity to plan. the fixation of type 7 is on planning, after all.

i liken his knowledge of art to his 3w4 fix. denarro also shows you something else. just because somebody has a knowledge of art and spends some time playing computer games, that it would be rather faulty to make any further assumptions about him as a person or the type of life he lives.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-denaro-sicily

Nora Lum....SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-2w3 sx/so

This is a really easy one. Nora Lum comes in through Elliphant as 8w7:





and then as sx/so through Joan Rivers (doesn't make a difference that Joan Rivers is a different enneatype):





let's take a look:



she's got a sx/so 8w7 kinesthetic....very similar to brody dalle and courtney love.

some 8w7 kinesthetic markers:

her voice is deep and gutty....its coming from deeper in the gut.
her kinesthetic is naturally assertive....
her body is loose, relaxed.
assertive types are assertive in a relaxed state (they don't have to be emotionally psyched up to assert themselves).
she has a bull in the china shop quality. she clearly relishes in her badness
some song titles: my vag, NYC Bitches, Queef, come stop me...
unconventional....very similar clothing choices as elliphant

https://www.google.com/search?q=awkw...ch&q=elliphant

[Sol]

Yuriy Gagarin - INFP
1st man in space. 12 april 1961






Eyes of Matteo Denaro are cold, - logic probably, while Rasputin's sight on that photo is kind and ironic in my perception.

[Kill4Me]

"Cops that have investigated Blanco and studied her personality conclude that...."

Big Meech....SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-3w2 so/sp

Meech comes into 8w7 through Joey Merlino:





so/sp through Chapo Guzman:





that's exactly the same iris.

let's take a look:

"Demetrius Edward Flenory (born June 21, 1968 in Detroit, Michigan) and Terry Lee Flenory (born January 10, 1970 in Detroit, Michigan) are brothers and American drug traffickers. They founded the Black Mafia Family (BMF), a criminal organization based in Detroit, Michigan, and are currently serving 30-year sentences in federal prison. Demetrius is also known as "Big Meech", Terry as "Southwest T."

Already you can see that he's cut from the same cloth as Guzman and the other 8w7 examples with a similar iris.

Such is the accuracy of VI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetr..._Terry_Flenory

Here's a couple answers by Big Meech in an interview:

Big Meech: (LOL) Yeah, they changed the crack law twice in 24 years, and it still only helped a few people. We are grateful for the ones that it has helped, but all of the drug laws need to be changed, especially for first-time, non-violent offenders. Everyone deserves a second chance in life. Powder and crack are the same drug in different form. You put 15 grams of baking soda on 35 grams of powder cocaine, then cook the 15 grams of baking soda off to bring it to a rock form of 35 grams or less, depending on how you cook. So, what’s the difference besides the thousand years the judge is going to sentence you to in court for the crack instead of powder? The government knows that crack is sold in predominately Black and Hispanic neighborhoods, so that’s who their targets are to keep the incarceration rate up.

"powder and crack are the same drug in different form" is a good example of SLE qualia-grasping. when he says they're the same drug, what he's really saying is they contain the same qualia. the rest of his answer takes off from there, but grasping the similar qualia between different types of drugs is the 'mega-chip', the seed. That, in turn, energizes his perspective on the matter. But the computer can't process information without the mega-chip and that's where socionics cognition comes into play. when determining socionics type, don't just look at the cognition, but the seeds of the cognition. Seeds like "powder and crack are the same drug" is what grows the tree and bears the fruit.

Up until now I have simplified socionics down to cognition. But when I say cognition what I'm referring to, more specifically, is the seed of that cognition. Stacking and enneagram do effect cognition and can be seen as influencing meech's answers....an aspect of the type 8 distortion/fixation centers around bigness. One thing apparent from Meech's answer is that he's thinking on a big, sweeping scale. He is cynical but also self-assured. By the answer he gave he assumes for himself a position at the top of the mountain. so/sp comes into play in the particularities of that big, sweeping scale. No sp-wall is preventing Meech from tying his case in with other offenders in his category. He's also pro-actively calling for the law to be changed.

http://allhiphop.com/2012/08/13/excl...zy-connection/

When the electric and gas got cut off, we pray and to pray is to have faith that God is going to help you or show you the way to help yourself, faith without works means nothing so after many nights with the gas and lights off and going to school with holes in the bottom of my 2 for $15 Payless shoes, and my brother and I wearing the same clothes every other day. Then, we had 30 days to come up with $7,500, or else we would be put out in the street. My brother and I had to find a way to make some fast money, so we hit the streets and came up without having to rob and kill someone. It was supply and demand, simple as that.

here you see another instance where so/sp 8w7 presents themselves as a businessman. Big Meech boils his answer down to supply and demand. Maybe you have read me do the same in older posts. so/sp 8w7 is more of a tough guy than a businessman that nevertheless likes to hold themselves out to the public as a businessman. Just the reverse as SLE sp/so 8w7. It's paradoxical. Keep in mind that selling drugs doesn't require any true business savvy and that had Meech been a true business man like Donald Trump he would have envisioned multi-million dollar projects that instantly converted into profit. Meech's business acumen was more primitive and in order to fill his ambition for power and wealth he had to entangle himself in interdependent relations. Trump didn't have to do that. so/sp 8w7 business style consists more of taking areas over, and doing the dirty work that comes with that. It's essentially the same as would be the political style of a so/sp 8w7 general (like a napoleon or qin, or even pancho villa). Usually that dirty work involves wiping out the local LSE. LSE-Te sp/so 8w9 is the type that will usually cause the most problem for SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp. Big Meech isn't the first so/sp 8w7 to see themselves as/hold themselves out to the public as a businessman. Al Capone did the same thing.

SLE-Ti vs SLE-Se: Meech doesn't have that "I've filled cemeteries by myself" arrogance that Denaro has. SLE-Se is more likely to attain an iconic status....SLE-Ti can acquire an iconic status, but its more for what they do than any personal quality they have. SLE-Ti 8w7 has a meaner streak and are overall better at making enemies. See an example such as Griselda Blanco:

Blanco has been credited with inventing the idea of the “motorcycle assassin” who rode by victims and sprayed them with bullets.

“It’s surprising to all of us that she had not been killed sooner because she made a lot of enemies,” former Miami homicide detective Nelson Andreu, who investigated her, said late Monday. “When you kill so many and hurt so many people like she did, it’s only a matter of time before they find you and try to even the score.”

a more wild temper:

But it was her nasty temper and penchant for unyielding violence that drew the attention of law enforcement and the public.

Detectives learned the intimate details of the hit from Jorge Ayala, the charismatic hitman who later testified against Blanco. He told police that Blanco wanted Castro killed because he kicked her son in the buttocks.

“At first she was real mad ’cause we missed the father,” Ayala told police. “But when she heard we had gotten the son by accident, she said she was glad, that they were even."

Cops that have investigated Blanco and studied her character conclude that she enjoyed inflicting pain on others and that she enjoyed killing. That's the deeper core of type 8 - the drive to torture. And not just making fun of people to provoke a reaction like say hodgetwins do, but wiping rivals out, crushing people in your way. That's what Blanco, Capone, and all the others have in common. Mike Tyson can be said to enjoy inflicting pain on others with some of the things he has said to his opponents pre-fight. Mike Tyson has also spoken about himself and the things he would do to his opponents in animalistic terms. However, Mike Tyson, in his documentary, called all of that a facade/mask he put on, consciously making believe that he was animalistic as a fight tactic. In contrast, it really was who Blanco was and her enjoyment for inflicting pain on others a stable trait in her personality over a long period of time (perhaps the most stable)....Gurdjieff supposedly boiled the enneagram down to chief characteristics. Naranjo attributes punitiveness as the chief characteristic of type 8. For Ichazo, it was over-justicemaking. Those are the same. And one that emerges rather clearly in the quotes I posted about Blanco. Big Meech is ruthless enough to make it in the drug trade but he's never done anything that would have others contemplating whether he was actually evil, on top of just being ruthless. Blanco would have no problem making a top twenty most evil women of all time list, based on the mainstreams' perception of what evil is. In fact she did. Blanco is clearly a better benchmark example of 8w7 for purposes of VI, strengths, weaknesses, cognitive abilities, temperament, things that 8w7s will respond violently to, and well, pretty much anything else related to the type. Big Meech is not that cold and ruthless in contrast to Blanco.

"The Black Mafia Family (BMF) is a drug trafficking organization, originally based in Detroit, Michigan which was founded in the late 1980s by brothers Demetrius and Terry Flenory. By the year 2003, they had established the cocaine distribution cells in Pineview, GA throughout the United States. Through their Los Angeles-based drug source, they had direct links to Mexican-based drug cartels.[1] They established two main hubs for their operation: the Atlanta, Georgia hub, for distribution, was operated by older brother Demetrius, while the Los Angeles, California hub was operated by Terry to handle incoming shipments from Mexico."

that sounds very similar to what i wrote about so/sp business style:

Its business exoskeleton takes on a more fragmented quality....rather than it being constructed through/into a singular unit…the growth spreads out more than it rises up….its more diffusive.

sp/so is more about putting walls up. donald trump couldn't have picked a better theme to represent his stacking with than border control. sle + 8w7 makes for the most non-structural cognition. This is why many of the 8w7s I've posted have been organization builders. 8w7s aren't those tech industry nerds that get on working behind a cubicle in a corporate environment, nor would the tech industry be an industry that an 8w7 would thrive in financially (a 7w8 would, a 5w6 and 6w5 would, and a 3w4 would, but not an 8w7). The main reason is that the tech industry doesn't cater to the 8w7s' instinctive intelligence. Even NT 8w7s fit into the nickname that R & H gave the 8w7, that of "maverick". Fritz Perls is a person I've designated as a LIE 8w7. Perls was a maverick in his pioneering of gestalt therapy....he brought a 'moving against' style to the therapy session and focused more now the patient was doing instinctively with their body in the moment. similar to bodybuilding and the effects of steroids, the tech industry, perhaps due to the corporate culture, has and had no shortage of other types masquerading as 8w7-like.

Big Meech: I’m not sure why the government and federal agencies love to hate “cocaine kingpins.” Seventy percent of the people the government allege to be kingpins have never seen a whole kilo or made a million dollars, so evidently the government has no criteria to determine whether a person is a kingpin or not – because I have met crack dealers who had only a few eight balls and ounces that have kingpin time. Just like when the government tried to charge DJ Drama with the RICO for selling mixtapes. I think someone needs to police the government with their judiciary misconduct and abuse of the constitution and laws.

His cognition has a lucid quality. he's not working off of a roadmap, but weaving together his own roadmap from the various fragments of his experiences. He's also speaking in general terms. so/sp has a generalist quality, more so than the other stacks. All so/sp will have a fragmented quality in where their attention goes. What they extract from those fragments will vary with the enneagram and socionics type. Darwin was so/sp 5. Darwin's attention splintered out all over the globe, in different countries and types of animals (let's call them "splinter cells")....he had a wide lens, but what he ultimately extracted from those splinter cells he unified into his theory of evolution. fragmentation was just his so/sp exoskeleton, but the treasure he was digging for in each fragment speaks more deeply to the enneagram fixation. Einstein was also so/sp 5 NT and he did a similar thing. Einstein was a four winger so he was working more through his imagination, in the world of potentialiaties, rather than directing his attention to practical affairs. With sp/so 5, the sp-bias for 'walls' and 'borders' has them digging their heels deeper into one area of specialization. You often find many so/sp Generals and World leaders bent on unifying an entire geographical region under one flag. Qin was so/sp 8w7-5w6-4w3.The EU is so/sp-ish. John Gotti was also so/sp 8w7 and pulled out of the fragments in his attention things he could use to possess the scene - inflate himself narcissistically (possessing the scene equates to social dominance).

[Sol]

Alesya Nikolayeva - INFP


Valeriy Tsvetkov (on right) - ISTJ


INFP


Kelly - INFP

[Sol]

Dmitry Peskov - ISTJ

[Kill4Me]

John Dillinger...SLE-Se 8w7-7w8-3w4 so/sp

dillinger comes in through blanco.





That also prequels some earlier examples I posted on this thread...such as

Whitey Bulger came in through Dillinger.





Jesse James Hollywood comes in through Bulger:





Pablo Escobar comes in through Jesse James Hollywood:





let's look at some quotes by dillinger:

All my life I wanted to be a bank robber. Carry a gun and wear a mask. Now that it's happened I guess I'm just about the best bank robber they ever had. And I sure am happy.

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...4YLFEduRkaB.99

See how, with Dillinger in connection to all the other examples, this all folds into one: inner view, VI, kinesthetic, behaviors. The question then becomes what's better for typing. You could very well try to type dillinger by researching him in-depth, reading his biographies and turning over every rock. Once you trudge your way to figuring out he's an 8w7, the key distinction on the stacking then becomes dillinger's anti-fatherness and he's a cinch for that. However, VI will sail you to the same conclusion but in a much shorter period of time. That's what makes VI a more practical method for typing. VI works off the indisputable reality that identical twins have an identical kinesthetic. All you anti-VIers: find me a pair of identical twins where one vibes like jim carrey and the other vibes like henry kissinger. If your typings have no basis in physical reality then you're just building castles in the sky.

My buddies wanted to be firemen, farmers or policemen, something like that. Not me, I just wanted to steal people's money!

Police and firefighters are mostly 2-6-1 father triaders. on any forum bet that forum moderators and administrators will be overrepresented by 2-6-1 daddy triaders, too. Types with a stronger religous orientation daddy triaders overrepresent, as well, like those religious goodie goodies that have to consult with their pastor about whether or not they should have sex with their girlfriend. whenever you see somebody come on this forum, for example, and talk about how God has their answers in life, and that they've given their lives over to God, unless the person is trolling, you've got a 90 something percent chance that person is in the daddy triad. 'establishment figures' in politics brook no exception. The establishment could just as well be another way to describe the 2-6-1 daddy triad.

amateurs reduce stackings to sp firsts are interested in money, social firsts are interested in politics, and sexual firsts relationships. Each stacking presents a different strategy for how people incidentally wind up, or don't wind up, acquiring basic necessities (food, money, shelter, sex). for sp/so, its hard work, saving your money, being responsible, paying attention to the environment, and make wise investments, that makes Johnny a happy camper. That's sp/so in a nutshell. sp/so is that person in your family who has an ego about their willingness to roll up their sleeves and shovel shit for a buck. sp/so is better at making money without swimming upstream towards their own destruction. dillinger isn't capable of that. this is where the reverse flow, syn flow distinctions show up between so/sp and sp/so. dillinger clearly wouldn't be offended by somebody calling him a thief, or calling him arrogant. he would take it as a compliment. he clearly relishes in his own badness and i would surmise sees himself as his own law. He's not an outlaw because he sees himself as a victim of the system. That he's a so/sp has him projecting that quality out into the entire social ether and ultimately possessing the scene with it. just like how so/sp 2w1 projects the religious/humble servant quality out into the entire social ether.

These few dollars you lose here today are going to buy you stories to tell your children and great-grandchildren. This could be one of the big moments in your life; don't make it your last!

Bigness is a recurring theme in type 8. Big Meech wasn't just self-confidently calling for one law to be changed, but for all the laws on drugs to be changed. Bigness is core to the 8's fixation and is where denial-of-vulnerability at the unconscious level locks Bigness in as a stable trend in the 8s perceptions of reality. The quote above clearly shows Dillinger to have reached the point of textbook megalomania. For dillinger, this will be remembered by the hostages as the seminal event of their life. And not only is it supposed to be the big event in their life, but in their kids' life as well, and then their kids after that, and then those grandkids and ultimately great grandkids. Dillinger's own vision of himself extends into future generations. It's the big picture sweeping eye of so/sp channeling impressions a hundred years into the future. Nostradameus was likely so/sp. That's the scale dillinger is envisioning himself on, even as he's robbing a bank. He isn't just out to rob a bank, but he's out to possess the scene in a large way....he's exploiting the effect that robbing banks and pointing guns at people has on the social ether in order to 'devour' the scene and dominate on a mass historical scale. This also runs into distinctions from sp/so 8w7. With Donald Trump, the Bigness theme is rather blatant but shows up in his real estate projects as a solid construction you can point at and look at and go inside of. The name Trump is clear to the naked eye. So/sp has a more spread out, borderless sense for power, so the bigness that Trump arrives at through building his Trump towers dillinger arrives at through the minds/memories of his hostages.

let's look at some quotes about dillinger:

Seeking a better disguise, he decided to undergo major plastic surgery. It was at this time that he was christened with the nickname “Snake Eyes.” The surgery was able to change everything except his devious eyes.

Shrewdness, cunning and deviousness all fall under the marker that Naranjo named 'conning and cynicism.' Type 8 is the type most easily correlated to antisocial personality. You're not going to be the most antisocial personality type on the enneagram and not have a devious mind. I posted something on diego maradona awhile ago which described his cunning personality. This is a good point of distinction from SLE 6w7s like Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson is sometimes forceful, but cunning is not a word I would give him. Don King is cunning.

As a teenager, Dillinger was frequently in trouble with the law for fighting and petty theft; he was also noted for his "bewildering personality" and bullying of smaller children.

Bullying reflects the deeper core drive of type 8 - the drive to torture, inflict pain, as a means for wielding power over others. Ocean's Moonshine writes on this:

"An element of sadism frequently enters the picture, sadism being a clear and obvious manifestation of the attempt to attain power by means of domination and humiliation".

https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/eights/

This goes beyond just joking around and teasing, but into degrading, belittling and denigrating, Key words: abuse, cruelty

Oscar Ichazo considers cruelty to be the core compensation of type 8:

"The stress of being fixated and imbalanced in this domain can lead to Cruelty as a compensatory mechanism. The poison of this domain is Mythomania."

https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.co...agram-arica-3/

873 vs 854: dillinger's dark vision didn't come with a dark treatise. The megalomaniacal vision is just of himself. dillinger doesn't have the nietzschean slant in his perspective that five fixers do. 854 is a more ubermenschean character than 873. mussolini can do what dillinger did but dillinger can't do what mussolini did. dillinger captured the public's imagination, but a new era rose up around mussolini. he had more of a lust to control the minds of the people around him whereas Dillinger just wants to control them enough to pull off his bank robberies. both trifixes possess the scene but 854 possesses the scene through a 'tablet' of new values, which sometimes turns the old ones upside down.

8 vs 2: Assertive > Daddy: Dillinger doesn't disguise his taking under the pretense of giving. he's not out to convince the public about what a generous person he's been but is perfectly candid about his selfishness. both 8s and 2s are playing around with the same elemental sense of omnipotence, but 2s are projecting it up into the sky
and 8s are owning it.
8w7 vs 2w1 so/sp: dillinger isn't a self-professed do-gooder.
8w7 vs 2w3 sp/sx: having an interest in manners and empathy isn't a priority for dillinger. he's not a language cop.

8 vs 3: Moving Against > Moving Towards. Dillinger is not stealing from people he's close to. His criminality doesn't involve him taking advantage of people he's already formed a bond with. You can see the way the moving against vs moving towards informs the political styles of the types. Donald Trump and Bill Clinton are both very ambitious, but Clinton's political style saw him shedding a tear with people and 'actively listening' to their sorrows. There's a clip of him crying with a voter when he was running for president. Trump's political style is more combative....it leans heavily on insults, accusations about anybody that gets in his way, and scapegoating of mexicans.
8w7 vs 3w2 sx/so: dillinger likes attention, sure, but he doesn't act like a goofball to get it. he's got a heavier, more serious bearing. you won't find pictures of dillinger making goofy looking expressions, and for that matter you won't find pictures of any 8s doing that.
8w7 vs 3w4 sp/sx: dillinger doesn't see goodness in others. he's a cynic. 8s and cp6s are both cynical, 6s are openly cynical (see Jeb Bush), and 8s are boldly cynical (see Trump), but 3s aren't either, though 3s are the most adaptable in their perspectives, so they can come to adopt a cynical perspective if they perceive that as essential to actualizing a more desirable and assertive image.

8 vs 4: Assertive > Withdrawn. dillinger is too action-oriented for a 4.
8 vs 4w3 sp/sx: dillinger isn't reckless just to be reckless. he's not intentionally trying to court pain and death. that's simply a fall-out from his escapades.

8 vs 5: Gut > Head. Dillinger .
8w7 vs 5w4 sx/sp: dillinger isn't soft and squeamish. He's a hard realist. he doesn't show any particular disdain for insensitivity and cruelty by others. he wasn't reclusive as a kid. he's not leaving any special insight into the way bank robberies are done. he doesn't use his imagination to make up things that counter preconceptions held by the mainstream.
8w7 vs 5w6 so/sp: dillinger isn't fixated on gathering data so that he can provide expertise to society by logically applying classifications to its social problems.
8w7 vs 5w6 sp/sx: dillinger doesn't deal with his outlaw status by cutting ties from everything in existence. And as a result, he walks right into a trap laid out by the FBI because he couldn't resist indulging himself. A 5 would have holed themselves up somewhere more hermit-like.

8 vs 6: Assertive > Daddy. Dillinger says he's taking and stealing what he wants just because. He makes no attempt to justify himself on any ground. The way to get something, in the 8's view, is by taking it and because he takes his views for granted there's no need to explain. Taking and stealing is self-assertion in its most undiluted form. Gut > Head: dillinger is kicking back in the midst of robbing a bank to spit out an intuitive, operatic vision of himself to one of his hostages. a 6 wouldn't have access to that type of intuition in the middle of robbing a bank....the pitfall for type 6 is worry. The atmosphere would have a 6 robber knee deep in searching/scanning for things that may go wrong amid the robbery itself and keeping themselves mentally prepared to deal with it. Cp6 isn't a personality type distinct from 6, but a defensive response to one's fears, which still has the effect of cutting them off from their intuitive faculties.
8w7 vs 6w5 so/sp: dillinger's mythic status isn't due to him fighting a cause on behalf of an oppressed people. william wallace in the movie braveheart was a so/sp 6w5.
8w7 vs 6w5 so/sx: dillinger is not acknowledging his badness in the process of trying to convince others that he knows he 'fucked up' and wants to atone for his scumbaggery. dillinger is gleeful about his scumbaggery and practically tells you he wants to be the best scumbag on the block. he's unapologetic about his lifestyle and doesn't regret anything he's done. He's impudent to the very end. i can't see dillinger working a cubicle job in the tech industry. he's not an establishment figure and doesn't fit the mold of a company man. dillinger's entire life indicates that he had trouble getting along in any environment where he wasn't the boss. escaping such places is a constant theme throughout his life whether its bunking school or breaking out of jails. dillinger would break off on his own in no time to run things himself, even if it meant taking less pay, whereas a 6w5 might find some comfort in a corporate type structure.
8w7 vs 6w5 sp/so: dillinger is sane but not pretentiously rational. his aggression isn't that of a sniper on the rooftop but a more cavalier, mischievous, impish criminal style. this quote speaks to said quality: "You're being robbed by the John Dillinger Gang, that's the best there is!" For a good example of sp/so 6w5 see Jeb Bush in the recent debate.
8w7 vs 6w5 sp/sx: dillinger has too much bravado. a 6w5 sp/sx would likely make fun of dillinger's self-aggrandizement. 6w5 sp/sx wouldn't speak of themselves in such terms as they would see it as pompous and they veer away from aggrandizing themselves in that way. a 6w5 sp/sx typically see guys like dillinger, in light of his referencing himself as a thief, and self-aggrandizing manner, as doing a parody of some sort, a caricature. It's almost like 6w5 sp/sx is programmed to depict such people in a humorous light.
8w7 vs 6w7 so/sp: dillinger doesn't see himself as being part of something bigger than dillinger. he's not partisan to any cause or person but his own and himself. he's not serving a state, or a team, so to speak, but his own desires.
8w7 vs cp6w7 sx/sp: dillinger is too focused. he isn't a jumping jack. His aggression was more like a cold shower raining down on the banks of the country and not the insecure babbling of an erratic hothead. dillinger also doesn't make empty threats....dillinger wasn't bluffing when he told the media he was going to escape from the prison. dillinger guaranteed victory. He said what he was going to do and did it.

8 vs 7: dillinger doesn't have any trouble implementing his plans or fully committing to particular actions. he's not stuck in the planning phase. dillinger also isn't particularly smooth or nonchalant. he'd likely just tell you to go fuck yourself or shut up, rather than try to tuck his aggression into a more smooth veneer.
8w7 vs 7w8 so/sp: dillinger wasn't a compulsive debater. he bullied the other kids in the playground, he didn't debate with them. He's not refined and fitness focused.

8 vs 9: dillinger is too arrogant for a 9.
8w7 vs 9w8 sx/so: he's not asserting himself in the interest of setting up a conflict free zone.
8w7 vs 9w1 sx/so: dillinger doesn't effect a facade of niceness.

8 vs 1: Assertive Triad > Daddy Triad: dillinger isn't putting principle first. he's got a vision of himself far into the future where stories about his exploits are being passed on from generation to generation. that's too expansive for a 1. naranjo came across 'dominance' as both a core trait of type 1 and of type 8, and from my experience, it's not uncommon to see some similarities between the energy of both types. Rand Paul is a 1w9 sp/so and Donald Trump is a 8w7 sp/so. you can see from the way they answered questions in the recent debate that both were coming from the gut. In contrast, Jeb Bush and Mike Huckabee are clear head types. 1s are more principled and will come down on the side of principle even if it means suppressing their own interests. the ends don't justify means for 1. dillinger is for dillinger.
8w7 vs 1w9 sx/sp: dillinger isn't a terrorist. the reason for his robbing banks isn' that he's upset with the current state of the world and views robbing banks or/and killing cops as an unfortunate, but necessary, way to bring about positive change
8w7 vs 1w2 so/sp: dillinger is too messy. 1w2s are very tidy people. Neat.

[Kill4Me]

Alexander the Great....SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-4w3 so/sp

SLE vs ILE: these are look alike types. ILEs are sometimes thought to be SLE at first glance. To conquer. Alexander's first response is not to look for a way to innovate. Steve Jobs was an ILE 7w8. Alexander unites East and West by taking them over. Alexander's competent function is to 'seek out and destroy'. Jobs' competent function was to 'innovate and promote'. Donald Trump is SLE sp/so 8w7 and FDR was ILE sp/so 8w7. Trump's campaign tactic is seek out and destroy. FDR's approach was to innovate and promote through his New Deal program. He used it to parry his way to victory. Trump isn't parrying...he's streetfighting. ILE has a more lancing style of competent attack....approaching on the diagonal, rather than trying to grab center right off the bat. Its only as a result of Alexander's conquering that business thrived between east and west. he's not an asking type. He's declaring things his. reinin dichotomies are not motivation theories. Keep in mind that the motivation for why an asking type asks a ton of questions is neither here nor there to whether they are an asking type or not.

Alexander comes in through Nora Lum for 8w7.

Alexander began his reign by eliminating potential rivals to the throne. He had his cousin, the former Amyntas IV, executed.[56] He also had two Macedonian princes from the region of Lyncestis killed, but spared a third, Alexander Lyncestes. Olympias had Cleopatra Eurydice and Europa, her daughter by Philip, burned alive. When Alexander learned about this, he was furious. Alexander also ordered the murder of Attalus,[56] who was in command of the advance guard of the army in Asia Minor and Cleopatra's uncle.[57]

so/sp's wiping out of rivals

let's take a look:

Some of Alexander's strongest personality traits formed in response to his parents.[178] His mother had huge ambitions, and encouraged him to believe it was his destiny to conquer the Persian Empire.[178] Olympias' influence instilled a sense of destiny in him,[182] and Plutarch tells us that his ambition "kept his spirit serious and lofty in advance of his years."

How do you know Alexander’s ambition was inborn and not, as the author assumes, the product of his upbringing? Through VI. All the people that VI like Alexander were super ambitious, too.

so/sp vs. so/sx or sx/so: alexander was too lofty for a sp-laster.

Alexander's relationship with his father forged the competitive side of his personality; he had a need to out-do his father, illustrated by his reckless behavior in battle

That sounds like the 8's sense of invincibility.

"Nothing was dearer to Alexander than the belief in his invincibility....It attests the general belief that Alexander saw conquest as his destiny from the outset of his career"

Aristotle taught Alexander and his companions about medicine, philosophy, morals, religion, logic, and art. Under Aristotle's tutelage, Alexander developed a passion for the works of Homer, and in particular the Iliad; Aristotle gave him an annotated copy, which Alexander later carried on his campaigns.

this is where you can see a distinction between 5 fixers and 7 fixers. Alexander has an intellectual side. Napoleon had an intellectual side.

According to Plutarch, among Alexander's traits were a violent temper and rash, impulsive nature,[185] which undoubtedly contributed to some of his decisions.[178] Although Alexander was stubborn and did not respond well to orders from his father, he was open to reasoned debate.[186] He had a calmer side—perceptive, logical, and calculating. He had a great desire for knowledge, a love for philosophy, and was an avid reader.[187]

Alexander is a dual character. This again, as with Messina Denaro and Denaro's knowledge about art and interest in philosophy, is why it would be extremely stupid to assume much about a person's level or introversion/extroversion based on their interest in learning and reading.

During his final years, and especially after the death of Hephaestion, Alexander began to exhibit signs of megalomania and paranoia.[144] His extraordinary achievements, coupled with his own ineffable sense of destiny and the flattery of his companions, may have combined to produce this effect.[189] His delusions of grandeur are readily visible in his testament and in his desire to conquer the world,[144] in as much, he is by various sources described as having boundless ambition

He appears to have believed himself a deity, or at least sought to deify himself.[144] Olympias always insisted to him that he was the son of Zeus,[194] a theory apparently confirmed to him by the oracle of Amun at Siwa.[195] He began to identify himself as the son of Zeus-Ammon

8 lack of humanness/vulnerability kicks in such that vulnerability/humanness doesn't factor into Alexander's sense of himself but he experiences himself in a large way. GG Allin also reverted between describing himself as a God and as an animal. its one campaign after another for alexander...deny, deny, deny.

Since Alexander is an 8w7, that leaves SLE, ILE, LSE, and LIE as the only possibilities for his sociotype.

some distinctions:

8 vs 3: The ambitions Alexander has strongly favors moving-against. He's not a diplomat:

Though advised to use diplomacy, Alexander mustered 3,000 Macedonian cavalry and rode south towards Thessaly. He found the Thessalian army occupying the pass between Mount Olympus and Mount Ossa, and ordered his men to ride over Mount Ossa. When the Thessalians awoke the next day, they found Alexander in their rear and promptly surrendered, adding their cavalry to Alexander's force.

This also showed Alexander's eagerness to fight, in contrast to his father's preference for diplomacy.

he fact somebody is success-oriented doesn't make them a 3. Frank Sinatra is a sx/so 8w7. he said "Success is the best revenge." So look for the vindictive component planted into the orientation towards success in order to distinguish 3 from 8. Alexander's possession of the scene often got sidetracked through his desire to even a score (punitiveness; personal revenge):

Alexander viewed Bessus as a usurper and set out to defeat him.

a more practical example: two star ball players are an 8 and 3, but the 8 will get into more fights and commit more fouls. 3s will put up with more crap from other players/coaches/referees.

8 vs 4: he’s too action-oriented.

8 vs 5: he’s too solid physically. 5s aren’t athletic.

8w7 vs 6: His aggression is instrumental, goal-oriented. He's invading, attacking and bullying the other countries because he's driven to dominate. They could be countries, they could be people, they could be banks....the object wouldn't matter. He's not dominating for defensive reasons, because he perceives the countries that he was to invade as posing a direct threat to his safety, though he may have employed such rhetoric for political purposes. They just have what he wants. It’s driven by his own drive to dominate and within his means to dominate through taking possession of the known world (to "possess the scene”), for which he sees as his divine right:

He showed his intent to conquer the entirety of the Persian Empire by throwing a spear into Asian soil and saying he accepted Asia as a gift from the gods.

His sense of invincibility doesn't lead him to make outrageously stupid maneuvers in war. he's still a successful general in spite of his delusions of grandeur and that sense of omnipotence doesn't impair his lucidness in the area of strategy and tactics. Alexander isn't a reactive type, and the fact that he's not a 6 fixer doesn't even make this ambiguous.

8w7 vs 6w5 so/sx: Alexander was not vulnerable to being disempowered through sexual temptation.

He had great self-restraint in "pleasures of the body,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

8w7 vs 6w7 sx/sp: He's not a splayed out hothead who can talk a big game but doesn't have the bite to back it up. He's more self-disciplined and goal-oriented.

8 vs 7: He’s not egalitarian. “let’s all Skype and be friends”. That’s not what Alexander is about. He clearly wants to reign supreme. Stackings are not personality types. Don’t treat them as such.

8 vs 9: Alexander is comfortable with conflict.

8 vs 1: Alexander was too expansive for a 1. He's not a rigid character. Rigidness is a core marker for type 1. Naranjo also mentions that both 1 and 8 share a trait of dominance. More so 1w9s ime. Both Trump and Rand Paul are more forceful than the other candidates when they give their answers and are more prone to attack. But notice in the republican debates that Rand Paul won’t talk about himself in expansive terms and seems rigid to the point that he'd even be willing to throw away his own candidacy just to remind people about what the 'right' thing is. Donald Trump otoh will talk about his past exploits, and he gloats about things he’s done.
8w7 so/sp vs 1w9 so/sp: alexander's megalomania isn't driven by a distorted ideal of perfection.

8w7 vs 2: Self-deification as a god-on-earth is an impossibility for type 2.
8w7 so/sp vs 2w1 so/sp: so/sp 2w1 and so/sp 8w7 are both playing around with the same exact sense of omnipotence. But the 2w1 projects/disowns that omnipotence out on the sky so that they can justify, to their superego, their sense of entitlement and selfishness, before they can act upon it, and that disowning-of-omnipotence molds the path they can walk down in order to express said selfishness. Alexander’s world-conquering is functionally rooted in the same elemental omnipotence that a Christian Missionary's 'call' to serve God by converting the world to Christianity is rooted in....but it's the interjection of a strong superego that distinguishes the two. If you could reach into Alexander’s soul and rip out his sense of omnipotence and then throw it up into the sky so that he could still experience it but as something outside himself, he would have been more like mother theresa than alexander the great. the same will to victory he had in battle mother teresa had around the sick and dying, but mother teresa would justify her fearlessness and willingness to fight to the end in her faith in God above and Alexander justifies it through a belief in himself.

[Kill4Me]

Hillary Clinton....LSI 1w2 so/sp



Yulia Tymoshenko...LSI 1w9 so/sp

Yulia comes in through Hillary:

[Sol]

Ernesto Guevara - ENFJ

Hillary Clinton - some F, INFP(?)
Yulia Tymoshenko - ENFJ

[Kill4Me]

Eduard Basurin....LSI 1w9 sp/so

Basurin comes in through Tymoshenko.





tymoshenko has more ‘wetness' in her eyes and in her irises. that's a stack difference.

you can also see it in the kinesthetic. the core expression/kinesthetic, though, is 1w9.





dick cheney is a 6w5 LSI to contrast with:



cheney's constant head tilting is a good marker for head center uncertainty/vacillation.

the 1w9 expression has a more convicted/rigid quality than 6w5 does:

[Sol]

Eduard Basurin - ENTJ(?)

[Not A Communist Shill]

Richard Ashcroft (who was lead singer of The Verve when they were a band) - EIE, perhaps

[Sol]

Richard Ashcroft - INTP(?)

[Aylen]

Richard Ashcroft (who was lead singer of The Verve when they were a band) - EIE, perhaps

I was just thinking, this morning, about how appealing he is and I can't quite place what it is.

Beta works for me.

[The Reality Denialist]

Horizon: Battle of the Brains

I think there are at least two betas EIE dramatist and LSI IQ specialist (very high IQ and his Ne is his weakest point).
One gamma (chess master), one delta (fighter pilot), one alpha (scientist). I'm not so sure about the artist (maybe ESF alpha/gamma) and the musician.

[Aylen]

[Not A Communist Shill]

John Donne - 16th/17th century English poet: maybe EIE

[Kill4Me]

Tyson Fury...SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp



*vladimir klitschko is a lse 3w4 so/sp.
*8w7 fighters make good shit talkers because the unconscious denial automatically reframes everything to reinforce their own position of power. note the way Donald Trump quickly sizes information up and automatically reframes information in a way that will advance the conditions favorable to a Trump victory.
*so/sp brings in the historical flourish.

Socionics:

examples of qualia grasping:
"you have about as much charisma as my underpants"
"you have a chin like a piece of glass"
"when I hit it its going to explode like that glass against that wall"

fury describes qualia all throughout the clip, the way that Klitschko looks and comes across in a way that speaks to the chink in klitschko's armor. the descriptions range from simplistic to more expansive. all those lines of attack are Ti ways to describe the same qualia. fury isn't using Se when he describes klitschko as a 'jab and grab' robotic fighter. Those are Ti descriptions....robotic is one way to put the qualia into words but not the only way, which gives Fury the flexibility to generate new lines of attack but still hit at the same point. this is also where you can find a number of political demagogues being SLE...grasping qualia and describing it through Ti is more politically effective than actually having to know anything in the empirical/scientific sense....its gut knowing. that also makes for a key difference between SLE and LIE.

[Sol]

Vladimir Klichko - ESTP

[Kill4Me]

Fury extended:

Fury comes in thru alexander:

[wacey]

Tyson Fury...SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp



*vladimir klitschko is a lse 3w4 so/sp.
*8w7 fighters make good shit talkers because the unconscious denial automatically reframes everything to reinforce their own position of power. note the way Donald Trump quickly sizes information up and automatically reframes information in a way that will advance the conditions favorable to a Trump victory.
*so/sp brings in the historical flourish.

Socionics:

examples of qualia grasping:
"you have about as much charisma as my underpants"
"you have a chin like a piece of glass"
"when I hit it its going to explode like that glass against that wall"

fury describes qualia all throughout the clip, the way that Klitschko looks and comes across in a way that speaks to the chink in klitschko's armor. the descriptions range from simplistic to more expansive. all those lines of attack are Ti ways to describe the same qualia. fury isn't using Se when he describes klitschko as a 'jab and grab' robotic fighter. Those are Ti descriptions....robotic is one way to put the qualia into words but not the only way, which gives Fury the flexibility to generate new lines of attack but still hit at the same point. this is also where you can find a number of political demagogues being SLE...grasping qualia and describing it through Ti is more politically effective than actually having to know anything in the empirical/scientific sense....its gut knowing. that also makes for a key difference between SLE and LIE.

Just kept clicking forward through the video and Mr. Clean is still jabbering 1 min, 2 min, 4, min 8, min, 9 min away saying the same exact thing. The comparison with Trump is pretty much correct. Felt like just STFU you wind bag and rolls eyes.

[Kill4Me]

Trump extended

Trump's recent comment about Megyn Kelly's blood coming out of her whatever [vagina] is a good example of Se-qualia grasping (combined with the 8w7 filters for belittling, insulting, denigrating, degrading). As I said before 8 is an all aggressive personality. so they don't draw the line between males and females when it comes to who they will verbally degrade/bully, as Trump clearly demonstrates.





I'll bet trump was surprised to find out what a pussy whipped little bitch Gerald rivera is after he and a brigade of pussy whipped little bitches came to smelly kelly's defense.

[The Exception]

Harry Houdini.

I'm leaning towards EIE, 2nd guess SLE.

http://www.magictricks.com/houdini-videos.html

[Kill4Me]

Andrea Dworkin....LSI 1w9 so/sx

dworkin comes in through 2 eduard basurins:







Fem-nazi quack

[Sol]

Andrea Dworkin - some F

[silke]

Carly Waddell - EIE-Fe sp/so 9w1
and Kirk DeWindt - LSI-Ti so/sp 3w4

LSI-EIE dual couple - there was no happy ending here, as he blew it big time at the finals, leading them right into a breakup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwCGs1N4Jhs

[Kill4Me]

Omarossa...LSI 1w2 so/sp

[Aylen]

Trump's recent comment about Megyn Kelly's blood coming out of her whatever [vagina] is a good example of Se-qualia grasping (combined with the 8w7 filters for belittling, insulting, denigrating, degrading).

Maybe he can relate... He can be a bloody **** after all.

[Kim]

Maybe he can relate... He can be a bloody cunt after all.

Fixed it for you. The joke is lost otherwise and cunt should be used gender neutrally, like bitch.

[Kill4Me]

Mick Philpott....SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/sp.

Philpott comes in through GG Allin:







"I say you were born with a dick between your legs...so I'm going to use it."

"one way or another I will get what I want."

On Mick:

"he would rule by fear."

"what he says goes, what he wanted he had."

In July 1978, aged 21, while AWOL from the army, he attempted to murder his girlfriend, Kim Hill, with whom he had had a two-year relationship, beginning when she was 15 years old. Philpott had previously shot Hill in the groin with a crossbow because he felt her dress had been too short, and had cracked her kneecap with a hammer when she paid too much attention to a baby she had been minding. Philpott attempted to kill Hill because she sent him a letter saying she was leaving him, stabbing her over a dozen times as she was lying in bed.[7]

Lomax said that Philpott was controlling, and she prayed he would move on to someone else....She gave birth to two children, both boys, in quick succession, but Philpott wanted a daughter, and beat Kehoe for this reason. She described Philpott teaching his older sons to be violent with her. Philpott wanted Kehoe to produce more children, but she did not conceive again.

In the documentary, Philpott was shown to be living in a caravan in his garden, in which his wife and mistress would alternate in spending nights with him. Widdecombe said that Philpott did not care about anyone and that he called both his wife and mistress "bitch". Widdecombe said she noticed that none of the children sought affection from him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Philpott

https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/eight-stacks/

[Kill4Me]

Bootz...SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/so



leilene is INFj. She is bootz' conflictor.



"are you proud of stripping on a pole, bitch?!"

"you don't put makeup on a five year old you dumbass bitch!"

[Kill4Me]

Temica Roshawn....SLE-Ti 8w7-6w7-3w4 sx/sp

At first sight, you may notice that I am beautiful and think that I am sweet. This is true. However, I do have another side of me that bites. The bites are as venomous as a King Cobra.

ON FAT PEOPLE:

Let me be clear on a few points. I never said that I didn’t like fat people. I said I don’t agree with morbidly obese people. It is unhealthy and causes health problems particularly Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, breathing problems, certain types of cancer, arthritis, and a host of others. It is sickening to see an already obese person at an all-you-can-eat buffet stuffing themselves and putting on a disgusting spectacle of gluttony. There is a reason why gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins. It shortens one’s lifespan and I feel that life should be spent with family instead of six feet deep in some forgotten grave. I feel that if I condoned such behavior, I would be okay with my daughter eating French fries and double cheeseburgers rather than eating apples. Not in this lifetime!

#Thinkaboutit – Why is it not a big deal when a fat woman wears tight clothes in public places and nobody says anything but when I do it, it’s a problem? That’s prejudiced! At least I’m nice to look at! I’m a 34-26-44 and everybody wants to see this! Nobody wants to see that fat ass bit** (please don’t excuse my profanity. I meant to say it!)

http://temicaroshawn.blogspot.com/20...ter-to-dr.html

[Aylen]

This thread needs some balance since some of the posts are psychopathic idiots. and some of the behavior is ntr.