Socionics Beta types Examples

[Kill4Me]

Keny Arkana....SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-4w3 so/sp

Arkana comes in through Mussolini:

[Aylen]

This thread needs some balance since some of the posts are psychopathic idiots. and some of the behavior is ntr.

[Kill4Me]

Viktor Bout "Merchant of Death"...SLE-Ti 8w7-7w8-3w4 so/sp







"A former Soviet military translator,[6] Bout had reportedly made a significant amount of money through his multiple air transport companies,[7] which shipped cargo mostly in Africa and the Middle East during the 1990s and early 2000s.[8] As willing to work for Charles Taylor in Liberia as he was for the United Nations in Sudan and the United States in Iraq,[7][9] Bout may have facilitated huge arms shipments into various civil wars in Africa with his private air cargo fleets during the 1990s.[10]"

"former British Foreign Office minister Peter Hain called Bout a "sanctions buster"[7] and described him as "the principal conduit for planes and supply routes that take arms from east Europe, principally Bulgaria, Moldova and Ukraine, to Liberia and Angola""

"Bout has lived in various countries, including Belgium,[54] Lebanon,[52] Rwanda,[25] Russia,[54] South Africa,[55] Syria,[37] and the United Arab Emirates."

"Bout's strategy of constantly moving location, owning numerous companies, and frequently re-registering aircraft[7][41] made it hard for authorities to make a case against him."

so/sp has a wider lens and global thrust….as a result its business exoskeleton takes on a more fragmented quality....rather than it being constructed through/into a singular unit…the growth spreads out more than it rises up….its more diffusive. They can end up at war with the state because of the way the business grows without regard for official lines of demarcation between one country and another, almost acts like a sovereign state in its own right, a law in itself, moving through tunnels, over land, operating independently of treaties, making more criss-crosses and zig-zags, that sp/so is too blind to see due to their having a ‘wall’ constructed between themselves and what’s over yonder. so/sp 8w7 is more outlawish, renegade, in that sense, than sp/so 8w7….the nucleus of their business has an elusive quality, not quite something you can point at definitively…the lines of communication aren’t straight so much as diagonal. they can seem to have an almost eerie socio-relational intelligence, that can’t be arrived at through business calculations so much as an innate "super antennae". drugs facilitate global reach. they are borderless, like weapons, alcohol....

SLE 8w7-7w8-3w4 vs SLE 8w7-5w6-3w4/4w3: 5w6 fixed 8w7 conquerors (like mussolini, napoleon, alexander the great) will impose their 'own' philosophical/legal/political doctrines onto a conquered territory….ex: napoleonic code. 873s (like chapo guzman, viktor bout, dawood ibrahim) won’t. They don't have that ’treatise’ in their back pocket ready to whip out after victory.

[Sol]

George Bush-jr. "Unlawful retard of death, devastation and hunger in the Middle East" - ENFJ

[Kill4Me]

Luis Felipe....SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-3w4 so/sp

enneagram: eyes
stacking: irises
socionics: cognition (and broader

Felipe comes in through elliphant as 8w7.





Felipe comes in through Angela Simpson as so/sp:





let's take a look:

"The leader of one of New York City's most notorious gangs, the Latin Kings, was convicted yesterday by a Federal jury on charges of orchestrating the murders and attempted murders of rivals from his prison cell in upstate New York."

that's the so/sp achilles heel

Another assistant United States attorney, Steven Cohen, sarcastically conceded that there was poetry in Mr. Felipe's letters. Mr. Cohen told the jury: ''One of the poems is 'Five alive, six must die.' Another is 'People popping, disciples dropping.' ''"

that sounds like Ni-seeking

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/20/ny...-slayings.html

He's an 8w7, so his only possible sociotypes are SLE, LSE, LIE, and ILE. SLE-Ti is the best fit.

[Kill4Me]

Grigori Rasputin...SLE-Se 8w7-5w4-4w5 sx/so

Rasputin comes in through GG Allin for 8w7 (gotta look close):





Rasputin then comes in through Courtney Love for sx/so:





let's take a look:

According to Fuhrmann a symbiotic relationship developed between the Tsarina and Rasputin, in which "each fed from the other".[172] According to Pierre Gilliard "her desires were interpreted by Rasputin, they seemed in her eyes to have the sanction and authority of a revelation."[173]

[wikipedia]

In 1905, friends introduced her and her husband to Rasputin. Neither priest nor monk, the uneducated peasant had already earned a repuation as a starets or spiritual teacher. He was also known as a healer and prophet. Did he provide relief to the young Tsarevich? His worst critics admit he did. He also helped the Tsarina deal with her unbearable guilt and suffering--but that help came at a price.

http://seducedbyhistory.blogspot.com...autocracy.html

it's pretty clear that rasputin was on a similar 'track' as courtney love like two college students that sign up for the same classes. sx/so 8w7s tend to be star chasers or if stars in their own right gaining access to presidents and mob figures. the tsars are parallel to stars....and rasputin didn't gain access to them because he was shy. for rasputin, it was the tsarina whose mind he gained control over by keying in on her vulnerability (her sick son) and then making himself indispensable to assuaging her panic when the boy was sick....that's a psychologically aggressive tactic. indispensability comes through the 8s connection with type 2....in a nutshell, his strategy was to seduce...power through seduction is a designated marker for sx 8. For courtney love, it was kurt cobain that stirred up her lust, but also gave her access into the upper echelon of the rock n roll world. like the tsarina, cobain was a sorta shy, withdrawn person who nevertheless wielded an enormous amount of clout in the rock world. rasputin raised himself from a lowly peasant to russia's most haunting powerbroker through his domination of the tsarina. the same can be said of love's rise from a juvenile delinquent to a mover and shaker in the rock n roll world through her domination of cobain. Rasputin wasn't a musician. He was a 'faith healer", but that's a trivial difference. back in those days a faith healer was a rock star. naranjo mentions that 'conning and cynicism' is a core trait of type 8, and sle usually make good used car salesmen, so the fact that rasputin was actually able to convince bright people of his powers, not only points to their stupidity, but his gift for the con.

While fascinated by Rasputin in the beginning, the ruling class of St Petersburg began to turn against him as he had privileges no one else had, an easy access to the Imperial Family.

Kokovtsov offered Rasputin 200,000 rubles, equaling $100,000, when he would leave the capital. Rasputin had become one of the most hated people in Russia.

In November 1916, Vladimir Purishkevich, a conservative member of the Duma, Russia’s parliament, gave a speech in in which he spoke of spoke of the “filthy, depraved, corrupt peasant” the Tsarina all but worshipped. Rasputin was seen to be at the center of the ‘Dark Forces’ destroying the country.

In less than a month, Purishkevich joined with Prince Felix Yusopov, the Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich, and a few other conspirators. Together, they would plot the infamous and successful assassination of the starets.

Rasputin was viewed as a serious threat. He was felt to be an evil presence. He was systematically demonized hardly had he shown up. love has inspired a similar reaction. this makes for a key difference from type 9. while 9s can be demonized, it takes a longer time for others to see them as evil....whereas a sx8 can provoke that response in a much quicker time. the capacity to fascinate and capture the imagination is mentioned by naranjo as being a core marker for sx8. rasputin, like love, has certainly had this effect, for better or worse. however, because this type fascinates and seduces doesn't mean the type is a sweet-natured, goodie two shoed tutti frutti with a cherry on top self-proclaimed good person. not at all. seduction and fascination has to be viewed in light of the core traits of type 8. Naranjo lists and divides them as "lust, punitiveness, rebelliousness, dominance, insensitivity, conning and cynicism, exhibitionism, autonomy, and sensory-motor dominance", that's even before you get to sx, soc, and sp. so the sx8 is going to be a type that provokes a fascination, but nevertheless remains punitive, insensitive, cunning, rebellious, lusty, etc. i don't know of any better examples that infuse those elements than rasputin, gg allin, and love.

Rasputin's gifts were offset by his drinking and womanizing. Scandal was his constant companion. As his power grew, so did his faults, his behavior becoming increasingly outrageous. Nicholas ignored it—Alexandra denied it—but the scandal was always there. And the stink of it threatened the autocracy. Many believed there was more to the relationship between Alexandra and Rasputin than the sharing of spiritual comfort.

There's not only exhibitionism, but the sx8's antisocial tendency. and of course, to distinguish between sx/so 8w7 and 3w4 you would have to look at whether rasputin was in the reactive triad or not. with 3w4s pretty much everything they say has a competent feel about it.

this below part would indicate that Rasputin was a reactive triader:

In 1915, Rasputin tried to seduce a woman at the famous Yar restaurant in Moscow. When the lady refused his efforts a drunken, outraged Rasputin went berserk. He smashed the furniture and mirrors in the private dining room, shouting all the while about his relationship with the ‘old woman,’ the Tsarina, and bragging how he did “with her what I want!” He exposed himself and was finally dragged away by police, fighting and hollering the Tsar would protect him and threatening to get even. The event was witnessed--and publicized--by a journalist who was present.

courtney love went on a similar tirade against the etsy designer Dawn Simorangkir after the designer requested love pay her for some clothing. rasputin would be getting sued for libel and defamation on twitter, but in spite of the different eras love and rasputin are cut from the same cloth in their 'tearing down' people that don't do what they want. Rasputin is also not a young teenager when he flips out in 1915....8s, like all types, don't outgrow their fixation. In fact, the fixation becomes more fixated. Ted Nugent is an older 8w7. He's loaded. He's had fame, etc yet never misses a moment to verbally denigrate somebody. he's a master at infusing his rants with chains of insults. watch an interview of nugent in his younger years and you won't find him nearly as denigrating. you have the more recent example of an older 8w7 like Donald Trump. He recently denigrated John Mccain's war hero status and has managed to grab one head line after another through little more than his use of insults and accusations. Courtney Love has more twitter suits against her than Trump and she's sx/so. In comparison to Trump, Love's rants are crueler. Trump is more insulting and denigrating now than a younger trump in older interviews. The bottom line is that age doesn't diminish a type 8's fixation, nor any types. Each type's traits will remain a stable part of their personalities until they die, regardless of what they are doing in their life, and at any point. That's why when you have somebody self-typing as an 8w7 and they try to rectify their nice guyness and sensitivity towards the feelings of others with the reality of type 8 by saying they've 'seen the light' or have 'grown up' enough to gain a more mature perspective on their 'type 8 anger', know that person isn't an 8w7.

sx/so vs. sx/sp: a big difference between sx/so and sx/sp is in the people they typically experience chemistry for. social standing is a factor in who the sx/so experiences a sense of chemistry with, and not a factor in who the sx/sp experiences chemistry with. rasputin experienced strong chemistry with the tsarina. she had immense social standing. same for courtney love. she experienced her strongest chemistry with cobain. he had immense social standing, and just to drive home the difference, as sx/sp, cobain was not only oblivious to his fame but he also experienced a strong chemistry for courtney love, who was pretty low on the social totem pole. rasputin was also a noted shapeshifter. he was such a natural shapeshifter that the tsar and tsarina had trouble believing the stories about his debauchery and outrageous conduct. shapeshifting is the best marker for distinguishing between sx/so and sx/sp.

Brian Moynahan describes him as "a complex figure, intelligent, ambitious, idle, generous to a fault, spiritual, and – utterly – amoral." He was an unusual mix, a muzhik, prophet and [at the end of his life] a party-goer.

"To the nobles and Nicholas’s family members, Rasputin was a dual character who could go straight from praying for the royal family to the brothel [bathhouse] down the street."

since he's an 8w7, that narrows down the possibilities for his socionics type to SLE, LIE, LSE and ILE. SLE-Se is the best fit.

he's also an 854 prototype.

SLE-Ti 8w7-5w4-4w3: Larry Flynt
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w4-4w5: Anton Lavey
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-3w4: Whitey Bulger, Luis Felipe
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-2w1: Nicky Barnes, Lucky Luciano
SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-4w3: Napoleon, Vlad Tepes, Mussolini
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-4w3: Pancho Villa, Outlaw Jesse James
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-3w4: Tony Spilotro, Donald Trump, Griselda Blanco
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-2w1: Nancy Grace
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-2w3: Larissa Hodge
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w5-4w5: Morton Downey Jr
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w7-3w2: Idi Amin, Al Capone
SLE-Ti 8w7-6w7-4w3: Randy Savage
SLE-Ti 8w7-7w8-3w4: Viktor Bout, Chapo Guzman, Dawood Ibrahim, Aristotle Onassis

SLE-Se 8w7-5w4-4w3: GG Allin
SLE-Se 8w7-5w4-4w5: Grigori Rasputin
SLE-Se 8w7-5w6-4w3: Keny Arkana
SLE-Se 8w7-6w5-2w1: Ultimate Warrior
SLE-Se 8w7-6w5-2w3: Aileen Wuornos
SLE-Se 8w7-6w5-3w4: Temica Roshawn
SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-3w2: John Gotti, Joey Merlino, "Broken Tooth" Koi
SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-3w4: Althea Flynt, Jesse James Hollywood, Angela Simpson
SLE-Se 8w7-6w7-2w3: Diego Maradona
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-2w3: Elliphant
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-3w4: Courtney Love
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-4w3: Brody Dalle
SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-3w2: Huey Long
SLE-Se 8w7-7w8-3w2: Pablo Escobar, Manuel Noriega
SLE-Se 8w7-7w8-3w4: Pink, Bugsy Siegel, John Dillinger

[Sol]

If for Rasputin typing was used British propaganda and idiotic movies - it's stupid. By photo I'd suppose Fi type, - ISFJ mostly.


Theodore Roosevelt - ISTJ

[Kill4Me]

Matteo Denaro....SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-3w4 so/sp

Denaro comes into 8w7 through Rasputin:





Denaro comes into so/sp through Mussolini (simply match the irises):





Let's take a look:

"Messina Denaro is often portrayed as a ruthless playboy mafioso and womaniser, driving an expensive Porsche sports car and wearing a Rolex Daytona watch, Ray Ban sunglasses and fancy clothes from Giorgio Armani and Versace."

"He is an ardent player of computer games"

"Matteo has a reputation for fast living and allegedly killed a Sicilian hotel owner who accused him of taking young girls to bed."

"apparently reorganised the 20 Mafia families in Trapani into one single mandamento..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matteo_Messina_Denaro

"his cunning and the Robin Hood status many Sicilians have conferred on him."

the robin hood status would point to a 3w4 fix. both whitey bulger (8w7-5w6-3w4 so/sp) and chapo guzman (8w7-7w8-3w4 so/sp) cultivated a robin hood myth around themselves.

"It is the letter he wrote to a fellow godfather where he talks about the police and claims, 'These demented Torquemadas will never stop me.' The point is, the man believes he is in the right. He believes he is not a criminal."

sounds like the 8w7 sense of invincibility. he also regards himself as his own law...it's typical for sle so/sp 8w7 to frame the world/schools/police as having something wrong with them for wanting to get in the 8w7's way. something I wrote awhile back:

"I kicked this kid in the stomach. They told me it was wrong to do that and I got sent home for the day. It isn't wrong to me...the world was fucked. Still is."

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...89#post1042489

8w7s aren't burdened by a sense of guilt, so they would never ever conclude that they were in the wrong for committing an action, say one the govt deems criminal (unless they were conning). joey merlino had told a reporter that the prosecutor was Mental, when asked about him.

"Seeing himself as philosopher, folk hero and serial seducer, Messina Denaro, 51, has apparently kept up his luxurious lifestyle and entertained a string of lovers after going on the run two decades ago."

note how close he is to JFK (so/sp 7w8)....once you get into the assertive triad (873), serial seduction is quite common (obviously). 3s otoh approach it from more of a 'game' perspective and 7w8s are sometimes the ones that lay down the rules of the game. Mystery's mystery method would make a good 7w8 description. 8w7s are the naturals....of all the enneagram passions lust is the one that makes getting laid pretty easy.

"Today, the man who famously claimed "I filled a cemetery all by myself". and took his nickname, Diabolik, from an uncatchable Italian comic book criminal, is wanted for more than 50 murders and has made top 10 lists of the world's most-wanted criminals."

he's got the 8w7 arrogance, that's for sure. arrogance is a good way to distinguish between 8w7 and 7w8.

Messina Denaro was also part of the gang that in 1993 snatched Giuseppe di Matteo, the 11-year-old son of a turncoat. They held the boy prisoner for more than two years to persuade his father not to give evidence, and eventually strangled him.

Though brutal, his use of aggression is mainly strategic. i'm not seeing any 6 fix reactivity.

"He is like Bin Laden," he said. "He has no direct contact with his group. Hi-tech equipment is of limited use: he won't use a cell phone or computer more than once, satellites cannot see a pizzino and a drone wouldn't be able to follow someone down narrow alleys. Bugging is hard when suspects talk on the beach, in olive groves or in cemeteries, but never indoors."

reread what i wrote a few posts ago about so/sp business style.

Messina Denaro declared that Catholicism left him cold. "I don't challenge death," he wrote, "I simply kick it in the head, because I have no fear of it."

here's some sle-ti 8w7 cognition....compare to what I wrote awhile back on regrets.

"I had a regret years ago. But I ripped it out of my memory like an old weed and it ain't been back since."

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...31#post1038231

"It's not down to courage, it's because I have no love for life, and after life there is nothing."

the main defense mechanism of type 8 is denial. denial means denial of vulnerability/humanness...as a result that extends into a denial of 'love for life'. hence, the inner view of the 8w7 is more animalistic. SLE accounts more for animalistic behavior. Mike Tyson is SLE 6w7. he can behave animalistically but he has a very human view of himself. GG Allin was SLE 8w7. He behaved animalistically but also had a very non-human view of himself. 8w7s are the most out of touch with the human experience...giving them a more caricature like quality. that doesn't mean that, on some deeper, unconscious level, they don't experience it, but that the experience is filtered out through denial before the 8 is even conscious of it, and so it doesn't factor into their choices, actions, content of speech, nor kinesthetic. an 8w7, for example, would never experience feeling scared when they are in a rut, nor would an 8w9...if they do they're another type, usually a 6.

"What counts with Messina Denaro is his iron will and his huge ego," one investigator said. "Ultimately he doesn't care about his family, he doesn't even care about the mafia – all that matters to him is not being caught. For us to catch him, it's going to take a mistake on his part, or betrayal by one of his backers."

not giving a fuck like that is another instance of the 8 denial.

"To prove nothing would stop his romantic conquests, he murdered a hotel manager who had protested about his affair with an Austrian receptionist. But Messina Denaro also showed he was no soft touch with women. After he murdered a rival boss, he strangled the man's pregnant girlfriend."

Each 8w7 stack has its area of excess. With so/sp it tends to be "killing." how sublimated that killing is will vary with the level of health and type of business the person is in. "Killing the competition"....as denaro says he fills cemeteries. So didn't h1tler (so/sp) and Stalin (so/sp) fill cemeteries. so/sp is also no stranger to terrorism against the state. Bin Laden was also so/sp. But with 8w7 so/sp, they arrive at terrorism more through their own greed, materialism and self-interest. Take Pablo Escobar. Escobar bombed the judicial complex in his country when they threatened to extradite him to the United States and he also blew up a commercial jetliner, full of people. Toto Riina (so/sp 8w7) blew up cars with the country's prosecutors in them after the govt. started cracking down on the mafia. With 8w9 so/sp, killing furthers a political goal...with 1w9 so/sp, killing furthers an ideological goal....the achilles heel is similar across the board for so/sp, but the enneagram type/wing tweaks the way in which they end up there.

8w7-5w6-3w4 is the most cold and ruthless 8 of 'em all. this particular incident has a strong parallel to Whitey Bulger. Bulger decided to murder the girlfriend of his associate after she and the associate broke up. The associate had told her things about their criminal activities but the associate wasn't heartless enough to do the deed himself. Bulger did it without hesitation, not even bothering to farm the work out. Bulger's choice of killing her: strangulation.

In 1993, Messina Denaro was the brains behind the bombing of the Uffizi gallery in Florence, destroying paintings by Rubens and Giotto. According to Brusca, Messina Denaro was given the job of picking the paintings to target because of his knowledge of art.

Ti subtype augments his ability to plan, organize, coordinate. But the 7 wing also adds the capacity to plan. the fixation of type 7 is on planning, after all.

i liken his knowledge of art to his 3w4 fix. denarro also shows you something else. just because somebody has a knowledge of art and spends some time playing computer games, that it would be rather faulty to make any further assumptions about him as a person or the type of life he lives.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-denaro-sicily

Nora Lum....SLE-Se 8w7-7w6-2w3 sx/so

This is a really easy one. Nora Lum comes in through Elliphant as 8w7:





and then as sx/so through Joan Rivers (doesn't make a difference that Joan Rivers is a different enneatype):





let's take a look:



she's got a sx/so 8w7 kinesthetic....very similar to brody dalle and courtney love.

some 8w7 kinesthetic markers:

her voice is deep and gutty....its coming from deeper in the gut.
her kinesthetic is naturally assertive....
her body is loose, relaxed.
assertive types are assertive in a relaxed state (they don't have to be emotionally psyched up to assert themselves).
she has a bull in the china shop quality. she clearly relishes in her badness
some song titles: my vag, NYC Bitches, Queef, come stop me...
unconventional....very similar clothing choices as elliphant

https://www.google.com/search?q=awkw...ch&q=elliphant

[Sol]

Yuriy Gagarin - INFP
1st man in space. 12 april 1961






Eyes of Matteo Denaro are cold, - logic probably, while Rasputin's sight on that photo is kind and ironic in my perception.

[Sol]

Alesya Nikolayeva - INFP


Valeriy Tsvetkov (on right) - ISTJ


INFP


Kelly - INFP

[Sol]

Dmitry Peskov - ISTJ

[Kill4Me]

Alexander the Great....SLE-Ti 8w7-5w6-4w3 so/sp

SLE vs ILE: these are look alike types. ILEs are sometimes thought to be SLE at first glance. To conquer. Alexander's first response is not to look for a way to innovate. Steve Jobs was an ILE 7w8. Alexander unites East and West by taking them over. Alexander's competent function is to 'seek out and destroy'. Jobs' competent function was to 'innovate and promote'. Donald Trump is SLE sp/so 8w7 and FDR was ILE sp/so 8w7. Trump's campaign tactic is seek out and destroy. FDR's approach was to innovate and promote through his New Deal program. He used it to parry his way to victory. Trump isn't parrying...he's streetfighting. ILE has a more lancing style of competent attack....approaching on the diagonal, rather than trying to grab center right off the bat. Its only as a result of Alexander's conquering that business thrived between east and west. he's not an asking type. He's declaring things his. reinin dichotomies are not motivation theories. Keep in mind that the motivation for why an asking type asks a ton of questions is neither here nor there to whether they are an asking type or not.

Alexander comes in through Nora Lum for 8w7.

Alexander began his reign by eliminating potential rivals to the throne. He had his cousin, the former Amyntas IV, executed.[56] He also had two Macedonian princes from the region of Lyncestis killed, but spared a third, Alexander Lyncestes. Olympias had Cleopatra Eurydice and Europa, her daughter by Philip, burned alive. When Alexander learned about this, he was furious. Alexander also ordered the murder of Attalus,[56] who was in command of the advance guard of the army in Asia Minor and Cleopatra's uncle.[57]

so/sp's wiping out of rivals

let's take a look:

Some of Alexander's strongest personality traits formed in response to his parents.[178] His mother had huge ambitions, and encouraged him to believe it was his destiny to conquer the Persian Empire.[178] Olympias' influence instilled a sense of destiny in him,[182] and Plutarch tells us that his ambition "kept his spirit serious and lofty in advance of his years."

How do you know Alexander’s ambition was inborn and not, as the author assumes, the product of his upbringing? Through VI. All the people that VI like Alexander were super ambitious, too.

so/sp vs. so/sx or sx/so: alexander was too lofty for a sp-laster.

Alexander's relationship with his father forged the competitive side of his personality; he had a need to out-do his father, illustrated by his reckless behavior in battle

That sounds like the 8's sense of invincibility.

"Nothing was dearer to Alexander than the belief in his invincibility....It attests the general belief that Alexander saw conquest as his destiny from the outset of his career"

Aristotle taught Alexander and his companions about medicine, philosophy, morals, religion, logic, and art. Under Aristotle's tutelage, Alexander developed a passion for the works of Homer, and in particular the Iliad; Aristotle gave him an annotated copy, which Alexander later carried on his campaigns.

this is where you can see a distinction between 5 fixers and 7 fixers. Alexander has an intellectual side. Napoleon had an intellectual side.

According to Plutarch, among Alexander's traits were a violent temper and rash, impulsive nature,[185] which undoubtedly contributed to some of his decisions.[178] Although Alexander was stubborn and did not respond well to orders from his father, he was open to reasoned debate.[186] He had a calmer side—perceptive, logical, and calculating. He had a great desire for knowledge, a love for philosophy, and was an avid reader.[187]

Alexander is a dual character. This again, as with Messina Denaro and Denaro's knowledge about art and interest in philosophy, is why it would be extremely stupid to assume much about a person's level or introversion/extroversion based on their interest in learning and reading.

During his final years, and especially after the death of Hephaestion, Alexander began to exhibit signs of megalomania and paranoia.[144] His extraordinary achievements, coupled with his own ineffable sense of destiny and the flattery of his companions, may have combined to produce this effect.[189] His delusions of grandeur are readily visible in his testament and in his desire to conquer the world,[144] in as much, he is by various sources described as having boundless ambition

He appears to have believed himself a deity, or at least sought to deify himself.[144] Olympias always insisted to him that he was the son of Zeus,[194] a theory apparently confirmed to him by the oracle of Amun at Siwa.[195] He began to identify himself as the son of Zeus-Ammon

8 lack of humanness/vulnerability kicks in such that vulnerability/humanness doesn't factor into Alexander's sense of himself but he experiences himself in a large way. GG Allin also reverted between describing himself as a God and as an animal. its one campaign after another for alexander...deny, deny, deny.

Since Alexander is an 8w7, that leaves SLE, ILE, LSE, and LIE as the only possibilities for his sociotype.

some distinctions:

8 vs 3: The ambitions Alexander has strongly favors moving-against. He's not a diplomat:

Though advised to use diplomacy, Alexander mustered 3,000 Macedonian cavalry and rode south towards Thessaly. He found the Thessalian army occupying the pass between Mount Olympus and Mount Ossa, and ordered his men to ride over Mount Ossa. When the Thessalians awoke the next day, they found Alexander in their rear and promptly surrendered, adding their cavalry to Alexander's force.

This also showed Alexander's eagerness to fight, in contrast to his father's preference for diplomacy.

he fact somebody is success-oriented doesn't make them a 3. Frank Sinatra is a sx/so 8w7. he said "Success is the best revenge." So look for the vindictive component planted into the orientation towards success in order to distinguish 3 from 8. Alexander's possession of the scene often got sidetracked through his desire to even a score (punitiveness; personal revenge):

Alexander viewed Bessus as a usurper and set out to defeat him.

a more practical example: two star ball players are an 8 and 3, but the 8 will get into more fights and commit more fouls. 3s will put up with more crap from other players/coaches/referees.

8 vs 4: he’s too action-oriented.

8 vs 5: he’s too solid physically. 5s aren’t athletic.

8w7 vs 6: His aggression is instrumental, goal-oriented. He's invading, attacking and bullying the other countries because he's driven to dominate. They could be countries, they could be people, they could be banks....the object wouldn't matter. He's not dominating for defensive reasons, because he perceives the countries that he was to invade as posing a direct threat to his safety, though he may have employed such rhetoric for political purposes. They just have what he wants. It’s driven by his own drive to dominate and within his means to dominate through taking possession of the known world (to "possess the scene”), for which he sees as his divine right:

He showed his intent to conquer the entirety of the Persian Empire by throwing a spear into Asian soil and saying he accepted Asia as a gift from the gods.

His sense of invincibility doesn't lead him to make outrageously stupid maneuvers in war. he's still a successful general in spite of his delusions of grandeur and that sense of omnipotence doesn't impair his lucidness in the area of strategy and tactics. Alexander isn't a reactive type, and the fact that he's not a 6 fixer doesn't even make this ambiguous.

8w7 vs 6w5 so/sx: Alexander was not vulnerable to being disempowered through sexual temptation.

He had great self-restraint in "pleasures of the body,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great

8w7 vs 6w7 sx/sp: He's not a splayed out hothead who can talk a big game but doesn't have the bite to back it up. He's more self-disciplined and goal-oriented.

8 vs 7: He’s not egalitarian. “let’s all Skype and be friends”. That’s not what Alexander is about. He clearly wants to reign supreme. Stackings are not personality types. Don’t treat them as such.

8 vs 9: Alexander is comfortable with conflict.

8 vs 1: Alexander was too expansive for a 1. He's not a rigid character. Rigidness is a core marker for type 1. Naranjo also mentions that both 1 and 8 share a trait of dominance. More so 1w9s ime. Both Trump and Rand Paul are more forceful than the other candidates when they give their answers and are more prone to attack. But notice in the republican debates that Rand Paul won’t talk about himself in expansive terms and seems rigid to the point that he'd even be willing to throw away his own candidacy just to remind people about what the 'right' thing is. Donald Trump otoh will talk about his past exploits, and he gloats about things he’s done.
8w7 so/sp vs 1w9 so/sp: alexander's megalomania isn't driven by a distorted ideal of perfection.

8w7 vs 2: Self-deification as a god-on-earth is an impossibility for type 2.
8w7 so/sp vs 2w1 so/sp: so/sp 2w1 and so/sp 8w7 are both playing around with the same exact sense of omnipotence. But the 2w1 projects/disowns that omnipotence out on the sky so that they can justify, to their superego, their sense of entitlement and selfishness, before they can act upon it, and that disowning-of-omnipotence molds the path they can walk down in order to express said selfishness. Alexander’s world-conquering is functionally rooted in the same elemental omnipotence that a Christian Missionary's 'call' to serve God by converting the world to Christianity is rooted in....but it's the interjection of a strong superego that distinguishes the two. If you could reach into Alexander’s soul and rip out his sense of omnipotence and then throw it up into the sky so that he could still experience it but as something outside himself, he would have been more like mother theresa than alexander the great. the same will to victory he had in battle mother teresa had around the sick and dying, but mother teresa would justify her fearlessness and willingness to fight to the end in her faith in God above and Alexander justifies it through a belief in himself.

[Sol]

Ernesto Guevara - ENFJ

Hillary Clinton - some F, INFP(?)
Yulia Tymoshenko - ENFJ

[Sol]

Eduard Basurin - ENTJ(?)

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Richard Ashcroft (who was lead singer of The Verve when they were a band) - EIE, perhaps

[Aylen]

Richard Ashcroft (who was lead singer of The Verve when they were a band) - EIE, perhaps

I was just thinking, this morning, about how appealing he is and I can't quite place what it is.

Beta works for me.

[Sol]

Richard Ashcroft - INTP(?)

[The Reality Denialist]

Horizon: Battle of the Brains

I think there are at least two betas EIE dramatist and LSI IQ specialist (very high IQ and his Ne is his weakest point).
One gamma (chess master), one delta (fighter pilot), one alpha (scientist). I'm not so sure about the artist (maybe ESF alpha/gamma) and the musician.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

John Donne - 16th/17th century English poet: maybe EIE

[Bethanyclaire]

John Donne - 16th/17th century English poet: maybe EIE

I like thinking of the types in terms of my favourite representatives of them- he could be EIE-ni..

I can see why people end up in long term mirror relationships (SFs mostly) and usually opposite subtypes.

that’s like me having a John Donne as my partner..lol

[Kill4Me]

Tyson Fury...SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp



*vladimir klitschko is a lse 3w4 so/sp.
*8w7 fighters make good shit talkers because the unconscious denial automatically reframes everything to reinforce their own position of power. note the way Donald Trump quickly sizes information up and automatically reframes information in a way that will advance the conditions favorable to a Trump victory.
*so/sp brings in the historical flourish.

Socionics:

examples of qualia grasping:
"you have about as much charisma as my underpants"
"you have a chin like a piece of glass"
"when I hit it its going to explode like that glass against that wall"

fury describes qualia all throughout the clip, the way that Klitschko looks and comes across in a way that speaks to the chink in klitschko's armor. the descriptions range from simplistic to more expansive. all those lines of attack are Ti ways to describe the same qualia. fury isn't using Se when he describes klitschko as a 'jab and grab' robotic fighter. Those are Ti descriptions....robotic is one way to put the qualia into words but not the only way, which gives Fury the flexibility to generate new lines of attack but still hit at the same point. this is also where you can find a number of political demagogues being SLE...grasping qualia and describing it through Ti is more politically effective than actually having to know anything in the empirical/scientific sense....its gut knowing. that also makes for a key difference between SLE and LIE.

[wacey]

Tyson Fury...SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp



*vladimir klitschko is a lse 3w4 so/sp.
*8w7 fighters make good shit talkers because the unconscious denial automatically reframes everything to reinforce their own position of power. note the way Donald Trump quickly sizes information up and automatically reframes information in a way that will advance the conditions favorable to a Trump victory.
*so/sp brings in the historical flourish.

Socionics:

examples of qualia grasping:
"you have about as much charisma as my underpants"
"you have a chin like a piece of glass"
"when I hit it its going to explode like that glass against that wall"

fury describes qualia all throughout the clip, the way that Klitschko looks and comes across in a way that speaks to the chink in klitschko's armor. the descriptions range from simplistic to more expansive. all those lines of attack are Ti ways to describe the same qualia. fury isn't using Se when he describes klitschko as a 'jab and grab' robotic fighter. Those are Ti descriptions....robotic is one way to put the qualia into words but not the only way, which gives Fury the flexibility to generate new lines of attack but still hit at the same point. this is also where you can find a number of political demagogues being SLE...grasping qualia and describing it through Ti is more politically effective than actually having to know anything in the empirical/scientific sense....its gut knowing. that also makes for a key difference between SLE and LIE.

Just kept clicking forward through the video and Mr. Clean is still jabbering 1 min, 2 min, 4, min 8, min, 9 min away saying the same exact thing. The comparison with Trump is pretty much correct. Felt like just STFU you wind bag and rolls eyes.

[Sol]

Vladimir Klichko - ESTP

[The Exception]

Harry Houdini.

I'm leaning towards EIE, 2nd guess SLE.

http://www.magictricks.com/houdini-videos.html

[Kill4Me]

Andrea Dworkin....LSI 1w9 so/sx

dworkin comes in through 2 eduard basurins:







Fem-nazi quack

[Sol]

Andrea Dworkin - some F

[silke]

Carly Waddell - EIE-Fe sp/so 9w1
and Kirk DeWindt - LSI-Ti so/sp 3w4

LSI-EIE dual couple - there was no happy ending here, as he blew it big time at the finals, leading them right into a breakup - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwCGs1N4Jhs

[lynn]

Elfriede Jelinek (winner of the nobel prize for literature 2004) - ENFj so/sp

2985.jpg

[Sol]

Simonetta Stefanelli - mb ESFJ

[silke]

Manoj Bhargava - LSI-Ti sp/so

[Beautiful sky]

Tracy Pollan, Michael Fox's wife

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ancTcHBXVCc

[Sol]

Khalid Muhammad - INFP(?)

[Kill4Me]

Beth Chapman, Abby Lee Miller and Bette Davis:

Beth Chapman...SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/so







dog chapman is ILE.

Abby Lee Miller....SLE 8w7 sx/so



Bette Davis...SLE-Se 8w7 sx/so



Davis's film choices were often unconventional; she sought roles as manipulators and killers in an era when actresses usually preferred to play sympathetic characters, and she excelled in them.

Davis later explained her actions with the observation, "when I was most unhappy I lashed out rather than whined." Some reviewers criticized Davis for the excess of her performance; James Agee wrote that she "demonstrates the horrors of egocentricity on a marathonic scale;"

E. Arnot Robertson wrote in Picture Post, "I think Bette Davis would probably have been burned as a witch if she had lived two or three hundred years ago. She gives the curious feeling of being charged with power which can find no ordinary outlet."

Time magazine noted that Davis was compulsively watchable even while criticizing her acting technique, summarizing her performance in Dead Ringer (1964) with the observation, "her acting, as always, isn't really acting: it's shameless showing off. But just try to look away!"[93]

...and subsequently filed for divorce citing Davis' "cruel and inhuman manner."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bette_Davis#cite_note-35

Davis quotes:

"I have been uncompromising, peppery, intractable, monomaniacal, tactless, volatile, and oftentimes disagreeable... I suppose I'm larger than life."

"My passions were all gathered together like fingers that made a fist."

"Until you're known in my profession as a monster, you're not a star."

"Old age is no place for sissies."

"Acting should be bigger than life. Scripts should be bigger than life. It should ALL be bigger than life."

“The best time I ever had with Joan Crawford was when I pushed her down the stairs in Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?”

[wacey]

There is a difference between being aggressive and being assertive. Maybe one or two far removed examples of aggressive Se people would be appropriate. This thread is being filled up with dozens as if somehow violent, aggressive, semi-criminal people was the normal for beta. A propensity for (harmful) violence is a product of environment and upbringing then it is for favorable Se informational metabolism.

In fact this is just confirming your own biases by only looking at the people you choose to see (and emulate?) Betas are found in every single class and social culture as any other types and by only choosing these criminal examples you are doing a disservice to the image as a whole.

[youfloweryourfeast]

ive seen far more aggressive n harmful people that are entjs compared to enfjs.

[wacey]

And no offence, and I am surprised no one has mentioned this before... Iris theory is a joke.

[suedehead]

Se-LSI (?)

[inaLim]

Se-LSI (?)

SLE-Ti ?

[Adam Strange]

Se-LSI (?)

SLE-Ti ?

Case does not seem like an LSI or an SLE to me. She seems like my SLI-Te ex-wife, if my ex-wife had been raised in da hood.

In the first video, look at the color of her clothes and how well-balanced and integrated everything she has about herself is. That to me is a manifestation of Si, although her addiction to Ralph Lauren is discordant for an SLI. Maybe designer labels are a bad habit she picked up from where she grew up. She isn't Se pushy or assertive, she's more thoughtfully alert to her surroundings.

Watch her eyes. She spends a lot of time inside her head when she's talking, as if she's going deep to access the next thing to say. She's introverted. Guardian-Caregiver, but introverted.

I'd say she's SLI-Te.
@Tommy, what do you think?

[Faith]

Case does not seem like an LSI or an SLE to me. She seems like my SLI-Te ex-wife, if my ex-wife had been raised in da hood.

In the first video, look at the color of her clothes and how well-balanced and integrated everything she has about herself is. That to me is a manifestation of Si, although her addiction to Ralph Lauren is discordant for an SLI. Maybe designer labels are a bad habit she picked up from where she grew up. She isn't Se pushy or assertive, she's more thoughtfully alert to her surroundings.

Watch her eyes. She spends a lot of time inside her head when she's talking, as if she's going deep to access the next thing to say. She's introverted. Guardian-Caregiver, but introverted.

I'd say she's SLI-Te.
@Tommy, what do you think?

I agree on her being Si>Se, but I'd say She's xSE-Si, probably ESE rather than SLI. The only person she reminds me of is my mom. I don't think her lifestyle and interests are typically beta either ime. It would be what my mom would do, lol

In her 20s my mom was kinda hippish and into vegganism, yoga, etc I knew a guy during hs and was basically the same (just not particularly healthy). He was also into traveling and taking pictures.