Tutorial: how to get along with SEIs-ISFps

[XoX]

Fifth, don't call my mother "mom".

lol. mom.

Sixth, don't make the PM too long.

Thanks mom. Is 10 pages too long?

I just said it should be in a PM because otherwise it would have sidetracked the thread.

I'm gonna tell you a secret now. There is no PM. Well there kind of is but it is still in my head. Mostly because I'm trying to make sense of some things but I'm kinda torn apart right now. I've seen good arguments made about my type. But all these arguments, even if seemingly good, lead to very different typings. I don't think any of them point to a Si-ego type though. Si quadra types are on the short list.

And sixth, if socionics helps me avoid 400 million people who "mysteriously" make me feel unvalued and weak, then by all means I intend to use it.

That is fear driven behavior. A weakness in itself. Get rid of it. It destroys many good opportunities.

And I really really can't see you as any Ni type because you always seem to say the things that rub me the wrong way and I can't even figure out what it was exactly. My husband tells me I'm like a radar, because I react to it. Well, it would be extremely odd if the radar suddenly started beeping at a Ni dominant.

I don't really know you so I have no idea how reliable your radar is or how it works. Hard to comment anything. You might or might not be right.

[astralsilky]

Mika Hakkinen

Looks beta ST -> ISTj.

His inappropriate philandering is not necessarily type-related. Any type can accomodate virtue; any type can be an ass.

[XoX]

Looks beta ST -> ISTj.

His inappropriate philandering is not necessarily type-related. Any type can accomodate virtue; any type can be an ass.

ISTj would totally destroy my case As it means they could be duals with his ex-wfie. Hah. He just seems kinda..I don't know. Soft on the surface?

[redbaron]

I think that, as with every type, some of what people see as annoying traits of ISFps are also strong points. Their sensitivity to the way things are phrased, for example, also makes them polite with others and sensitive to how their actions and words affect people. I appreciate this greatly. One of my best friends is ISFp and so is my dad. Both of them do have a tendency to occasionally fall prey to moodiness and that can be hard because you can tell that they don't want to sully the atmosphere by stating exactly why they are moody. They either expect you to guess or go about your day and leave them alone to work it out. But on the whole, there are few types who enjoy life as much as the SEI. I get a tremendous amount of joy from my relationships with them. I really do think, though, that relationships are complicated and more about specific individuals than types. I'm sure there are SEIs out there that I wouldn't get along with for one reason or another.

[Rubicon]

I think that, as with every type, some of what people see as annoying traits of ISFps are also strong points. Their sensitivity to the way things are phrased, for example, also makes them polite with others and sensitive to how their actions and words affect people. I appreciate this greatly. One of my best friends is ISFp and so is my dad. Both of them do have a tendency to occasionally fall prey to moodiness and that can be hard because you can tell that they don't want to sully the atmosphere by stating exactly why they are moody. They either expect you to guess or go about your day and leave them alone to work it out. But on the whole, there are few types who enjoy life as much as the SEI. I get a tremendous amount of joy from my relationships with them. I really do think, though, that relationships are complicated and more about specific individuals than types. I'm sure there are SEIs out there that I wouldn't get along with for one reason or another.

Thanks for your kind words.

[xyz]

First of all, they might not be correctly typed. Second of all, I'm sure there are plenty of ENFj-ISTp married couples and why whould I treat it as an example of what I should do and who I should interact with. Third, there are plenty of ISFps that behave pretty much the same and all give me the same vibe. Fourth, I didn't say my mom doesn't support my ideas, I said she doesn't comment them! Fifth, don't call my mother "mom". Sixth, don't make the PM too long. I just said it should be in a PM because otherwise it would have sidetracked the thread. And sixth, if socionics helps me avoid 400 million people who "mysteriously" make me feel unvalued and weak, then by all means I intend to use it.

And I really really can't see you as any Ni type because you always seem to say the things that rub me the wrong way and I can't even figure out what it was exactly. My husband tells me I'm like a radar, because I react to it. Well, it would be extremely odd if the radar suddenly started beeping at a Ni dominant.

This post is disgusting

[Rubicon]

I don't know. In the other thread I never really added ISFps to the equation. When I have an idea, I usually tell it to ISFps at the very last moment, when I'm already in the middle of it. I never ask them advide for unfinished ideas. When I tell my mother (ISFp) about my ideas she never comments them. Smiles and sometimes says, "that's wonderful". Or when she comments, it's a slightly distant comment that doesn't help me develop the idea. (e.g. mentions someone else who does the same thing). And sometimes I later disregard the idea and next time she asks how it went and I tell her I didn't do it. *Failiure moment*. So I usually find it easier to tell her what I'm doing but very rarely what I'm planning.

And I guess in the other thread I was initially just saying why Si advice kills the ENFj plan and why Se advice doesn't. It's nice if people use this information to improve relations. And generally I don't see anything wrong with modifying behavior to avoid pissing off people, but I would never call that friendship. This is why I don't see potential for ENFj-ISFp friendship, even if they're pretty and nice.

You say that ISFps make you feel undervalued and weak. I would rephrase that - a handful of people who happen to be ISFps make you feel undervalued and weak. It's immature to dismiss a whole personality type on the basis of your bad relationships with a couple of them. Maybe you have issues with your own self-esteem that need sorting out. People can only make you feel weak and undervalued if you let them. If you have a healthy self-esteem, it shouldn't affect you like that. You should consider the fact that the common denominator in your relationships with ISFps is you. Perhaps your attitude is the problem. I've found myself that I feel most annoyed by my supervisors when my self-esteem is low because their disapproval/advice kinda rubs salt into the wound.

[Kristiina]

This post is disgusting

ditto

[Kristiina]

You say that ISFps make you feel undervalued and weak. I would rephrase that - a handful of people who happen to be ISFps make you feel undervalued and weak. It's immature to dismiss a whole personality type on the basis of your bad relationships with a couple of them. Maybe you have issues with your own self-esteem that need sorting out. People can only make you feel weak and undervalued if you let them. If you have a healthy self-esteem, it shouldn't affect you like that. You should consider the fact that the common denominator in your relationships with ISFps is you. Perhaps your attitude is the problem. I've found myself that I feel most annoyed by my supervisors when my self-esteem is low because their disapproval/advice kinda rubs salt into the wound.

duh, if I find a nice ISFp, I start interacting with her/him. So far none of the relations have been "keepers". I'm not gonna redouble my efforts to have a supervisor friend so I can start testing my Self-Esteem of the Day. WHY should I work hard to find and keep a supervisor friend? ... and you guys tell us victims are masochists.

[Kristiina]

...just remembered. One person in my D&D group is ISFp. It took quite a lot of effort to treat his ideas as equal to the ideas of others, because I often don't understand the benefit of the idea. As the DM, I have to treat him as equal. I typed him after the first game session and got really scared at first. Now it's all good. I like having him in the group. Nevertheless, I don't seek any specific friendship with him because I don't feel the comfortable connection that I require from friendships.

[Rubicon]

...just remembered. One person in my D&D group is ISFp. It took quite a lot of effort to treat his ideas as equal to the ideas of others, because I often don't understand the benefit of the idea. As the DM, I have to treat him as equal. I typed him after the first game session and got really scared at first. Now it's all good. I like having him in the group. Nevertheless, I don't seek any specific friendship with him because I don't feel the comfortable connection that I require from friendships.

What's D&D?

[Kristiina]

What's D&D?

Geeky pen and paper roleplaying game. Fantasy world, based on Tolkien's Lord of the Rings world. People sit around a table, play their fantasy characters and roll dice to add some unpredictability. One person is the storyteller, that's called Dungeon Master, or DM.

[Rubicon]

Geeky pen and paper roleplaying game. Fantasy world, based on Tolkien's Lord of the Rings world. People sit around a table, play their fantasy characters and roll dice to add some unpredictability. One person is the storyteller, that's called Dungeon Master, or DM.

Huh - sounds interesting. Is this a club or something that you joined or just a group of your friends?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

What's D&D?

Dungeons and dragons. It's like a fantasy role play game. DM is dungeon master.

[Kristiina]

Huh - sounds interesting. Is this a club or something that you joined or just a group of your friends?

Group of friends. Sometimes someone gets a new hobby or moves away, so we find someone to replace him. I found my group by talking to a sailsperson in a gaming store and he invited me to his game. I married him later so I'm gonna have this hobby for a long long time. It's a good social hobby. 5-6 people meet every week.

[Rubicon]

Group of friends. Sometimes someone gets a new hobby or moves away, so we find someone to replace him. I found my group by talking to a sailsperson in a gaming store and he invited me to his game. I married him later so I'm gonna have this hobby for a long long time. It's a good social hobby. 5-6 people meet every week.

What type's your husband?

[Kristiina]

What type's your husband?

INTp yeah, I know I know, supervision.

[Jarno]

another strange thing i've encountered with ISFP's is when you break up with them, they suddenly get quiet. Don't let anything hear from them again. Normaly people would make some last respons or something. Maybe they try to hide their anger, or just don't like difficult situations.

[redbaron]

another strange thing i've encountered with ISFP's is when you break up with them, they suddenly get quiet. Don't let anything hear from them again. Normaly people would make some last respons or something. Maybe they try to hide their anger, or just don't like difficult situations.

This sounds very typical of an SEI. I find that mine get quiet whenever they don't like the emotional tone that's been created. Withdrawing is common. They definitely can hide their own emotions and don't like difficult situations.

[redbaron]

INTp yeah, I know I know, supervision.

Well I'm in a supervision marriage also so you're not alone!

[Mediator Kam]

This sounds very typical of an SEI. I find that mine get quiet whenever they don't like the emotional tone that's been created. Withdrawing is common. They definitely can hide their own emotions and don't like difficult situations.

That happened to me today. I said the wrong thing to someone, and then they shot back with some type of retort. And I just went quiet. I couldn't say nothing :\

[redbaron]

That happened to me today. I said the wrong thing to someone, and then they shot back with some type of retort. And I just went quiet. I couldn't say nothing :

I was on the other end of that once (I was the one who came back with a retort) and I immediately realized what I had done. I think the SEI thought I was mad at him. But I was really just over-reacting and being my occasionally-beta self. So I apologized right away. He's very forgiving--it was fine. To some degree, he likes the occasional intense emotional reaction. Just as long as it's not directed negatively at him. lol

[Rubicon]

INTp yeah, I know I know, supervision.

[Charismatik]

This sounds very typical of an SEI. I find that mine get quiet whenever they don't like the emotional tone that's been created. Withdrawing is common. They definitely can hide their own emotions and don't like difficult situations.

I totally agree with this, I do it all the time.

I don't date much, so I take relationships seriously-ish (in the sense that I won't date someone 'for the sake of sating someone' and I wouldn't date someone I couldn't see myself possibly falling in love with; not in the sense that I'm in love after a few weeks and want to get married then and there). So in relationships I tend to have the attitude that if I'm dating someone, I want that person to really WANT to be dating me. If they don't, for whatever reason, then I don't want to be dating them, either. A good relationship should be easy. And regardless of whether a person loves me or if I love them, if a person can come up with a reason that is good enough for them to break up with me, then even if it hurts it's for the best and therefore not worth arguing or lashing out over.

As far as other relationships go, when people lash out at me I either think one of two things. First, that they're simply very emotional right now and need to lash out at me and inflict that on me in order to feel better themselves- in which case I usually take it politely, quietly telling myself I'm doing a good thing for them by letting them 'get it out' so easily. For people I'm less close with, my reaction is usually that there was some sort of miscommunication somewhere along the line. And if they don't understand me to the extent that they're getting angry over this miscommunication enough to lash out at me, then they're not the kind of person whose opinion I should put much value in t begin with.

All that being said, I definitely don't like difficult situations. I'm very non-confrontational.

[Rubicon]

I totally agree with this, I do it all the time.

I don't date much, so I take relationships seriously-ish (in the sense that I won't date someone 'for the sake of sating someone' and I wouldn't date someone I couldn't see myself possibly falling in love with; not in the sense that I'm in love after a few weeks and want to get married then and there). So in relationships I tend to have the attitude that if I'm dating someone, I want that person to really WANT to be dating me. If they don't, for whatever reason, then I don't want to be dating them, either. A good relationship should be easy. And regardless of whether a person loves me or if I love them, if a person can come up with a reason that is good enough for them to break up with me, then even if it hurts it's for the best and therefore not worth arguing or lashing out over.

As far as other relationships go, when people lash out at me I either think one of two things. First, that they're simply very emotional right now and need to lash out at me and inflict that on me in order to feel better themselves- in which case I usually take it politely, quietly telling myself I'm doing a good thing for them by letting them 'get it out' so easily. For people I'm less close with, my reaction is usually that there was some sort of miscommunication somewhere along the line. And if they don't understand me to the extent that they're getting angry over this miscommunication enough to lash out at me, then they're not the kind of person whose opinion I should put much value in t begin with.

All that being said, I definitely don't like difficult situations. I'm very non-confrontational.

When you say that you just take it politely when people lash out at you in order to feel better about themselves - what if this happened regularly? Would there be a point when you'd say I'm not going to be your punching bag - enough is enough?

[Mediator Kam]

Ummm it would probably depend. The times I've conciously decided to STAND UP FOR MYSELF and everything worked out according to play have been extremely satisfying.

OMG it is soo enjoyable when I get angry at people and they are like "????????" Why is he being such a bitch?

Truly, I'm beginning to have problems with people taking advantage of me continuously, so I am getting more angry lately.

They definitely can hide their own emotions and don't like difficult situations.

False and true. I was in this horribly difficult situation in Algebra today. I'm usually quite good at math, but I've been only getting 5 hours of sleep a night every night for a while. So apparently I was totally mixed up on this problem in front of the class. Everyone was laughing and making mockery of my answers.

After that situation, I know for a fact I cannot hide my emotions at all, at least in my face. I don't know how to explain it, I was just disapointed we were doing this problem which was "so easy" for the rest of the class, and people were snickering the entire time. I was just frowning and my mind and heart were rushing with all these emotions. I was scared that I would start tearing up in front of everyone, thank God I didn't lol.

[Rubicon]

But to be honest, what mostly happens is the latter. And when I do "explode" I'm usually not able to contruct a logical meaningful argument justifying my outrageous behavior - I just end up looking like an overgrown child. lol

same with me - I find it hard to construct sentences when I'm emotional

[Mediator Kam]

same with me - I find it hard to construct sentences when I'm emotional

I missed that, I concur entirely. That is why I fail at arguments. I wish I could defend myself better.

[Rubicon]

So umm sometimes instead of confronting people about stuff I go out and do something crazy or try to tire myself out by being busy, or find a punching bag or do chores crazily or something to get all my excessive anger out. That's the key, finding an outlet before I scar someone for life.

Good tip - I go and thump away on the piano

When the anger has subsided a bit, I'm more able to look at the situation and act in a responsible mature manner appropriate to it, establishing my boundaries I guess. Or just telling myself I'm the one with the problems, and we're back to square one.

Same with me. Sometimes I'll even end of apologising to the person ... weird

But hmmm, sometimes it does burst out randomly and I'm mean to people or whatever. It totally freaks them out.

Yeah - they're completely taken aback cause they think I'm this sweet, docile thing ... there's always a look of shock on the person's face ... a bit offputting really ...

[Rubicon]

OMG it is soo enjoyable when I get angry at people and they are like "????????" Why is he being such a bitch?

Don't you love it when a person thinks they've 'gotten you down pat' and then you completely blow their conceptions of you out the window?

False and true. I was in this horribly difficult situation in Algebra today. I'm usually quite good at math, but I've been only getting 5 hours of sleep a night every night for a while. So apparently I was totally mixed up on this problem in front of the class. Everyone was laughing and making mockery of my answers. After that situation, I know for a fact I cannot hide my emotions at all, at least in my face. I don't know how to explain it, I was just disapointed we were doing this problem which was "so easy" for the rest of the class, and people were snickering the entire time. I was just frowning and my mind and heart were rushing with all these emotions. I was scared that I would start tearing up in front of everyone, thank God I didn't lol.

scared you're going to lose it and make a fool of yourself in front of everyone - yeah, I relate to that

[Mediator Kam]

Don't you love it when a person thinks they've 'gotten you down pat' and then you completely blow their conceptions of you out the window?

That is partly true. I make it a rule of mine to be unpredictable. I try doing different things every day if it is saying random things or what-have you. It just might be working together, eh?

[Mediator Kam]

It's like "dang how did this happen I was supposed to STAND UP FOR MYSELF." I hate it.

Maybe we're incapable of defending ourselves in real life. :|

Are you kidding? It's repulsive. Like, "I want to be allowed to get mad like everyone else, please."

No, you're too nice most of the time. Someone ought to place a UN resolution on you barring you from becoming angry.

[Rubicon]

i ABSOLUTELY hate it.

what type are you?

[Mediator Kam]

Don't you mean ? I can never remember what the silly shapes stand for ... And I have a small issue with the Fe/Fi shape - it looks like the Te/Ti shape with a large chunk of something missing ... no prizes for guessing what type came up with them lol

No, i meant . works together to make a totally weird character who is weird.

base with seeking is what I meant.

[Rubicon]

i'm not sure yet, but i got beta ST in my last two tests and LII in Rick's.

fwiw you strike me as more beta than alpha

[Rubicon]

i honestly appreciate this feedback.

[Mediator Kam]

The seeking of new and novel ideas() combined with the seeking of emotionally and physically satisfying things() makes an ISFp seek new and novel things that make him/her feel good.

Ne=unknown, avant-garde activities

[Kristiina]

i'm not sure yet, but i got beta ST in my last two tests and LII in Rick's.

I doubt you're IJ of any kind. Too many one-sentence-posts. It shows you have quite erratic way of thinking. One moment you post, the next moment you want to add something, then you want to post a third thing... IJ would sit and consider what they want to write and they'd make one post.

[Kristiina]

i quite agree. except maybe if it's an extreme Ne sub or smth.

no subtype is THAT extreme.

[FlameReborn]

Can you guys do this for other types too?