why do you think you need your dual

[eunice]

I need my dual to make my life more fun and interesting.

[FDG]

my dual is entj. probably i need him to lead since that's where he's good at.

let us suppose for a moment i'm entj. in my relationships with isfjs that's never what happened. usually what i do is to get them to have fun and take life less seriously, this way also their grades drop, their relations with their friends become sloppier because they start arguing instead of always saying yes, they start becoming more vulgar and throw sexual jokes aswell. Even if this sounds bad, they seemed to be happier this way.

Ah yeah sometimes I have advised them where to go to work, which university course is better, how much time is going to take to work through a particular project, explained some crappy theory...all that boring stuff that has no relevance in comparison to what is evidenced above.

[Jarno]

I need my dual to make my life more fun and interesting.

yes, this summarizes it pretty well without going into much technical details.

[Blaze]

It's always a pain trying to decide where to eat when I'm with my girlfriend. We believe that she's an ISFJ, and together we are always deferring the decision to the other. Eventually one of us will lose patience and just go with the old faithful "pizza".

the "i don't know, what do you want to do?" loop is the most frustrating thing in the world.

totally.

[Blaze]

*poof*

[Expat]

@diamond8

I think that any relationship within the same quadra is probably positive.

[Jarno]

i don't know if i need my dual or whether i just need a person that i have good compatibility with. does one have to have their dual in order to feel complete? does it matter what stage of life you are at? will other relationships besides dual be "good-enough" for fulfilling goals and dreams?

the answers to these questions are, like, plagueing me. some of you who are younger - this is all theoretical and might not really matter and besides that due to your age you can just play the field. for me, these questions feel really important. because i don't have much time left, there aren't that many people who aren't married that i have some compatibility with, and if i eff up again, it would totally suck.

Maybe it helps if I tell you that I can relate 100% to this story/question. One answer to the question is like expat said, there are more people than just your dual which make a relationship special.

[Exodus]

I think that any relationship within the same quadra is probably positive.

True, but duality is on a completely different level. Not even comparable.

[snegledmaca]

This may sound weird but the only thing I can think of is why would my dual need me. I don't know why and what for I would need my dual. Perhaps to give me a push, but I'm pretty comfortable with my current situation so I don't really see the need for that. To be honest I'm pretty psychologically self sustained right now and I don't really see a need for a dual. (But then again, I am living with an ILE so that could have something to do with it)

[Slacker]

I've been trying to think of how to answer this without sounding helpless and repeating an earlier thread by Expat, but I think what I *need* most from my husband that I wouldn't likely be able to get if I were married to someone of a different type is that I need someone who is willing, able, and happy to take care of daily details, like bill paying and making sure things I use are working properly and that kind of thing, because I just can't focus or something and no matter how good my intentions are, these things never happen if they're my responsibility. I lived alone for several years and I tried but I failed time and time again to keep up on bills, maintenance, etc. Anyway, someone who is willing and able to do it, but also someone who is happy to do it and doesn't feel bad about it because I would be unhappy if he were taking care of those things and was even just neutral about it. Luckily my husband would rather he be the one to do it and it makes him happy to do that stuff. I'd do it for myself if he felt resentful about having to do it all, but I would do a really bad job because it's just not something I can really do, and then we'd fight all the time about it.

[UDP]

I realized an important factor in why an LII needs an ESE:

ESE is very aware of the effort people put into things and is good at appreciating such.
LII will do things in many different ways, often involving different forms of sacrifice (intentionally or not, as LII has powerful concentration), and as such, is receptive to people who can tell he is working hard at something.

Few people may be able to address this or be aware of this in the way ESEs do.
(Likely because the ESE itself knows what it is like to do things with enough quality to be pleasing to other people (perfectionism, or how various profiles mention the ESE approaching other people with smiling eyes, etc))


Also, something I recently picked up on: just like the LII cannot and will not tolerate a subordinative tone, an ESE will not tolerate a tone that is vastly unethical or inconsiderate. When an ESE asks me something, for something especially, it is usually done in the most delicate way - especially if she knows I have to go out of my way to do it. The ESE, who likes to be nice and do things for others, acts in a way that is very ... inoffensive... and as such the LII sees no logical reason to not comply -- the LII sees that there is work to be done, and so long as it seems reasonable, it will be completed. ...Seeing work to be done, the LIIs powerful concentration may often override any sort of consideration for breaks or rest (only now am I understanding how true this is for me...), yet the ESE is consciously aware of expended efforts, and is always on standby with making sure rests and breaks and water and food is on hand.

Particularly because the ESE can see the LII could use help in this area, the ESE can feel endearment towards the LII, as his actions are deemed ethically proper and deserving of praise or reward in some way: an LII would generally feel ashamed to halfass something completely, especially if something is very important.

In this way, the potential of the LII is maximized, and, I speculate that because the ESE knows the LII "needs it", the ESE has a focused and (likely) a very solid and loyal partnership, which satisfies the ESE's important need for relationship and caring for other people.


That is partially confirmed, but mostly derived from experiences, especially of late.

[uninspired]

I need (well, would like to have) an ESTp because I crave someone who's fun, enjoys novelty and excitement, will stand up for me and will help me stand up for myself, will help me relax when I flip out instead of flipping-out with me (this can be contagious - my ENFp ex and I fed into each other's craziness when we almost got into a car accident, eep), and having someone who is just plain laid-back and doesn't care about pretentious crap.

[Ms. Kensington]

Also as I've said elsewhere, ESFjs will reach out to everyone, including an INTj. That is something I could see myself needing. Of course, INTjs can assert themselves, but it's something that they could use some help on. If an ESFj makes room for them to assert their opinions and actions, they don't have to assert themselves as much.

[Rick]

I think that any relationship within the same quadra is probably positive.

True, but duality is on a completely different level. Not even comparable.

I would argue that intra-quadra relations are still on a completely different level to the rest, even if duality is still "better".

Perhaps, but identity can really bite

[Blaze]

I think that any relationship within the same quadra is probably positive.

True, but duality is on a completely different level. Not even comparable.

I would argue that intra-quadra relations are still on a completely different level to the rest, even if duality is still "better".

Perhaps, but identity can really bite

i went out with an esfj and i don't think he could take my, er, "out of the box" thinking and lifestyle. i didn't mind him - he had a lot of Fe - but i think his perception was that my lifestyle was too risky and i didn't conform enough to the mainstream. but we had a lot of fun together for sure! :-)

never had a romantic identity relation, but lots of friends esp men who were/are my identity. these are fun friendships, i think; i didn't pick up on any competition. if i met an entp female (which i never have) then i could see how it could get competitive. but i can't see a romantic relationship with my identity; it's similar to mirror - who's doing the emotional work?

i really can't see a romantic relation between myself and an intj working. i can see how F types who are mirrors can make their relationships work, but in my opinion, mirror T's - who's doing the emotional work? esp an entp and an intj! between the two of us, i don't see any glue or any vital energy. don't get me wrong i appreciate intj's, really like them as friends, co-workers, even to have fun with, but i can't see how this relation would work in a long term committed relationship.

to me, good second-bests to dual would be semi dual or illusionary and maybe activity.

[Kristiina]

I don't feel like duality is on a different level compared to other relations. I have never been close enough with a dual to have one as emotional support during depression. I just often feel like people forgive me for being ENFj in stead of apreachiating it. If there was an ISTj who was close to me and who thought that duality is the best thing ever because of their relations to me, I think I would do all I can to keep that ISTj near me and I'd do all I can to keep him happy, because then I'd be sure that there's someone who likes my traits in stead of tolerating my traits.

PS! Diamond8, I think I could have (or have had :wink: ) a very emotional relationship with a feeling type, but then there would remain one important question - if both people are behaving all emotional, then who does the thinking? One says, "I felt like ..." and the other person says, "But I felt like...", but it's impossible to argue with feelings. No one can say, "but rationally you shouldn't have felt like that. Logically, you shouldn't have got offended." <3 thinking types! (except ISTp :wink: )

[Blaze]

PS! Diamond8, I think I could have (or have had ) a very emotional relationship with a feeling type, but then there would remain one important question - if both people are behaving all emotional, then who does the thinking? One says, "I felt like ..." and the other person says, "But I felt like...", but it's impossible to argue with feelings. No one can say, "but rationally you shouldn't have felt like that. Logically, you shouldn't have got offended." <3 thinking types! (except ISTp )

yeah i actually totally see this. sometimes i think logic is easier for someone to learn than ethics, which is why i think F types can connect better with each other than T types. then again, i'm not an F type trying to learn logic, so what do i know? hahaha

[Kristiina]

PS! Diamond8, I think I could have (or have had ) a very emotional relationship with a feeling type, but then there would remain one important question - if both people are behaving all emotional, then who does the thinking? One says, "I felt like ..." and the other person says, "But I felt like...", but it's impossible to argue with feelings. No one can say, "but rationally you shouldn't have felt like that. Logically, you shouldn't have got offended." <3 thinking types! (except ISTp )

yeah i actually totally see this. sometimes i think logic is easier for someone to learn than ethics, which is why i think F types can connect better with each other than T types. then again, i'm not an F type trying to learn logic, so what do i know? hahaha

haha
BTW, is cool. Never underestimate having it.

[Blaze]

PS! Diamond8, I think I could have (or have had ) a very emotional relationship with a feeling type, but then there would remain one important question - if both people are behaving all emotional, then who does the thinking? One says, "I felt like ..." and the other person says, "But I felt like...", but it's impossible to argue with feelings. No one can say, "but rationally you shouldn't have felt like that. Logically, you shouldn't have got offended." <3 thinking types! (except ISTp )

yeah i actually totally see this. sometimes i think logic is easier for someone to learn than ethics, which is why i think F types can connect better with each other than T types. then again, i'm not an F type trying to learn logic, so what do i know? hahaha

haha
BTW, is cool. Never underestimate having it.

thanx...and Fe is cool too. don't listen to these anti Fe peeps :wink:

[FDG]

PS! Diamond8, I think I could have (or have had :wink: ) a very emotional relationship with a feeling type, but then there would remain one important question - if both people are behaving all emotional, then who does the thinking? One says, "I felt like ..." and the other person says, "But I felt like...", but it's impossible to argue with feelings. No one can say, "but rationally you shouldn't have felt like that. Logically, you shouldn't have got offended." <3 thinking types! (except ISTp :wink: )

I think that thinking types are far more insecure in one-on-one relationship that feeling types. Feeling types seem to be more "tactful" (and thus insecure, to my eyes) with less close people, but when it gets to very personal relationship, it seems to me that T types are usually at the mercè of Fs

[Blaze]

PS! Diamond8, I think I could have (or have had :wink: ) a very emotional relationship with a feeling type, but then there would remain one important question - if both people are behaving all emotional, then who does the thinking? One says, "I felt like ..." and the other person says, "But I felt like...", but it's impossible to argue with feelings. No one can say, "but rationally you shouldn't have felt like that. Logically, you shouldn't have got offended." <3 thinking types! (except ISTp :wink: )

I think that thinking types are far more insecure in one-on-one relationship that feeling types. Feeling types seem to be more "tactful" (and thus insecure, to my eyes) with less close people, but when it gets to very personal relationship, it seems to me that T types are usually at the mercè of Fs

that's so true! the F pretty much runs the relationship....

[Logos]

I realized an important factor in why an LII needs an ESE:

ESE is very aware of the effort people put into things and is good at appreciating such.
LII will do things in many different ways, often involving different forms of sacrifice (intentionally or not, as LII has powerful concentration), and as such, is receptive to people who can tell he is working hard at something.

Few people may be able to address this or be aware of this in the way ESEs do.
(Likely because the ESE itself knows what it is like to do things with enough quality to be pleasing to other people (perfectionism, or how various profiles mention the ESE approaching other people with smiling eyes, etc))


Also, something I recently picked up on: just like the LII cannot and will not tolerate a subordinative tone, an ESE will not tolerate a tone that is vastly unethical or inconsiderate. When an ESE asks me something, for something especially, it is usually done in the most delicate way - especially if she knows I have to go out of my way to do it. The ESE, who likes to be nice and do things for others, acts in a way that is very ... inoffensive... and as such the LII sees no logical reason to not comply -- the LII sees that there is work to be done, and so long as it seems reasonable, it will be completed. ...Seeing work to be done, the LIIs powerful concentration may often override any sort of consideration for breaks or rest (only now am I understanding how true this is for me...), yet the ESE is consciously aware of expended efforts, and is always on standby with making sure rests and breaks and water and food is on hand.

Particularly because the ESE can see the LII could use help in this area, the ESE can feel endearment towards the LII, as his actions are deemed ethically proper and deserving of praise or reward in some way: an LII would generally feel ashamed to halfass something completely, especially if something is very important.

In this way, the potential of the LII is maximized, and, I speculate that because the ESE knows the LII "needs it", the ESE has a focused and (likely) a very solid and loyal partnership, which satisfies the ESE's important need for relationship and caring for other people.


That is partially confirmed, but mostly derived from experiences, especially of late.

Exceptionally well said UPD.

[Kirana]

why i think i need my dual.

i just posted under another topic on things that fatigue me when attempting them alone. and so this comes to mind quickly. in a specific example, i need my dual to be my link to other people, i.e. to ease me into a new group of people and through her i would belong, at least until i find my own niche within the group, if at all.

in a general sense, looking back to our friendship, i need my dual because my dual listens to me and accepts me and what's more, appreciates the things i consider important (for things to be logical and in their right places, and by extension, justice) and admires me for it. plus, as a result of that appreciation, comes to me for my opinion, and in that way, displays that appreciation in a desire to ask me to utilise them on her behalf. appreciation doesn't get any more real than that. she can tell when i am in need of comfort, and even though she may not understand my dilemmas or how to solve them, she makes sure that i don't neglect myself in the mean time - she knows i am more likely to do so when i am absorbed in something like this. and my dual is loyal, and will protect my interests and the things that are important to me.

i kinda miss her now that she's married, though. she married (i think) an ENTj, who is all right, really, but who seems to have an extremely close family into which she has been systematically (don't ask me how systematically, just trust me on this that i do mean systematically) inducted into and she now has the social demands of two families upon her and we see each other much less, and can do fewer things together now. and being the way that she is, she can't seem to say no to the social demands and squeezes them all in. i guess 'why i need my dual' is a question i can answer with a lot of clarity at this time.

[sigma]

1. I'm one lazy creature, definitely in need of a good whip on my back.
2. Not a shred of structure in my life, I'm just lucky to have resources in my life otherwise I would probably starve to death (or live in my parents home)
3. I'm so reluctant to making the first step in a relationship that unless a SLE comes along I might end up solo forever or in another down the drains relationship.
4. Strong Se in an intimate relationship create INSTANT ADDICTION when applied to an IEI... well at least for me it did and now I'm suffering terribly from the withdrawn

[Jarno]

1. I'm one lazy creature, definitely in need of a good whip on my back.
2. Not a shred of structure in my life, I'm just lucky to have resources in my life otherwise I would probably starve to death (or live in my parents home)
3. I'm so reluctant to making the first step in a relationship that unless a SLE comes along I might end up solo forever or in another down the drains relationship.
4. Strong Se in an intimate relationship create INSTANT ADDICTION when applied to an IEI... well at least for me it did and now I'm suffering terribly from the withdrawn

We are very much alike...